This will be this evening's thread to discuss issues with the coaching and any issues you may have with the staff in general.
Mount St. Mary's hired a private equity CEO to be their president. You'll never guess what happened next.
MAC level coaches = MAC level product.
Mac level product that has a very good chance of going 9-3 because Nebraska's defense is about 100 times worse than Sparty's, Northwestern forgot that they're good, and Iowa is nothing special. Will we win those games for sure? No we might still lose one. But the team is 6-2. Why don't you wait til the season plays out.
9-3 wins us the same trophy as 0-12
You really think this team is going 9-3?
Wake up, man. This is a 7-5/8-4 team.
I think you have to count Iowa, NW, and OSU as losses. Iowa and NW are on the road, and this team is abyssmal on the road. And Ohio State is steamrolling everyone in their path. Maybe we got lucky and beat one of the NW/Iowa pair, but this is an 8-4 or 7-5 team. And given their recent bowl performance, that's probably a loss too.
Northwestern is currently at risk of going 0-5 in the Big Ten. Iowa is Iowa, a tossup. I counted the buckeyes as a loss, and Nebraska it appears you granted me. So, yeah. The problem today was the pressure from Sparty's D and we won't see anything remotely like it the rest of the way.
is bad. really bad. even for the B1G. that's a must win game.
their defense is actually quite good. They will roll us too.
You greatly overrate their defense.
Even if their defense is better than MSU's, they won't "roll" us. Did you watch them at home today? They spent most of the first half on Wisconsin's side of the field (at one point their average starting position was the Wisconsin 46) and came out of it with 6 points. They might win 6-0, but it isn't going to get out of hand by any stretch of the imagination.
...so it's a loss.
I have to agree with you.
that people have to consider the possibility that this team remains a bit shellshocked after this loss.
It was brutal & humiliating. Exactly how resilient is this team & will they overcome this loss or play down & possibly lose to a Nebraska team they outmatch on paper?
I thought I read somewhere that Hoke has not beaten a team with a .500 or better record on the road since he has been the coach. Is that correct?
W 42-24 over N'Western (2-2)
L 14-28 to MSU (4-1)
L 16-24 to Iowa (5-3)
W 31-14 over Illinois (6-3)
W 23-20 over Va. Tech (11-2) in Sugar Bowl
L 41-14 to Alabama in season opener
L 13-6 to Notre Dame (3-0)
W 44-13 over Purdue (2-2)
L 23-16 to Nebraska (5-2)
W 35-13 over Minnesota (5-3)
L 26-21 to Ohio State (11-0)
L 33-28 to S. Carolina (11-1)
W 24-21 over UConn (0-2)
L 43-40 to Penn State (3-2)
L 29-6 to MSU (7-1)
So to recap, that's a 6-9 road record in three years. Versus teams that had a winning record at the time, he's 3-8 with a win and a loss coming against teams with a .500 record.
They have a tendency to beat shitty teams on the road so I'm still fairly confident about the Iowa/NW games. I said pre-season that anything less than 10 wins, with this schedule, would be below par. It could very well happen with a bowl win but the loss at PSU made it much more difficult. Here's hoping for a rematch with the ultimate Jekyll and Hyde squad, South Carolina.
JHS!! Haloscan days. Good to see you here- comment more.
JHS!! Haloscan days. Good to see you here- comment more.
Quit trying to act so coolly detached, you knob.
Michigan fans got ruined by a few bad years of Carr and 3 terrible years of RichRod. Even if we go 9-3 it doesn't matter if you lose to sparty and ohio. This was a bad loss and i'm not sure it wont spill over to the next week. Here's hoping we see some changes in the staff. Heck we're bowl eligible with very little chance at a big ten championship, we should make some changes now. Mediocre doesn't work for a Michigan team
Announcers were blaming Hokes team on Rich Rod. But no one blamed Rich Rods losses on Carr. U of M fans must learn to think outside the M-box.
9 guys out of 27 are left on the team from the 2010 class. 0 OL.
A handful of them rarely see the field because they just aren't that good (Ash, Furman, Jackson) Three guys on that class are diference makes. And that's Ryan, Gardner, and Black. 3 out of 27.
2011 had 20 guys and 13 still on the team. 1 OL. Only real difference maker in that group is Countess.
RichRod was a HORRIBLE recruiter at Michigan.
RichRod brought in excellent classes during his tenure. There were issues with retention, but it wasn't all on RR. He brought in talent.
3 years and we still blame it on a system change. Did Urban Meyer change systems? Future not looking as bright as everyone says. 9 years without winning a big 10 title and no offense line returning. Major programs like Alabama and USC went through spells of changing many coaches until finding one to bring them back. It will happen but it gets old waiting.
Almost everyony acknowledged that Carr left the cupboard bare for RR. Adrian Arrington, Justin Boren, Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Jake Long, Adam Kraus, andRyan Mallett all left after Carr retired.
I hope they were crediting RRs players for Hoke's first year record of 11-2!
and some MAC teams could produce the same results given our schedule.
Hoke is out of his league. Brandon is a goof. Hire Gruden or Butch Jones. Or call Rich Rod and see if he will come back.
Hoke is out of his league. Brandon is a goof. Hire Gruden or Butch Jones. Or call Rich Rod and see if he will come back.
You realize that Jon Gruden was fired from the only 2 head coaching gigs he ever had, right?
This idea that he is going to be some football coaching god who comes down and leads whatever program is so lucky to be blessed by his prescence to the promise land is totally ridiculous.
The last time we saw Jon Gruden as a head coach he was throwing temper tantrums on the sidelines while leading Tampa Bay right into a major implosion that saw them miss the playoffs after starting the season with a 9-3 record.
You realize Gruden wasn't fired from Oakland right? The Raiders traded him to Tampa Bay for 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 8 million dollars cash.
That doesn't make him good.
But he actually was a good coach. He won a super bowl, made the AFC title game and kept his teams in the playoff hunt pretty much every year.
That said I'm not convinced he's a blockbuster college coach... its hard to know when he hasn't run a college program.
Still isn't a ringing endorsement, and doesn't change the fact he was effectively shown the door in his only 2 head coaching gigs.
If we had traded Rich Rod away for a bag of chips and a used car, I'd say he pretty much got the old, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
I hate to say this but how long do we use the excuss of changing systems from Rich Rod. The future does not look bright as some say. We lose the only two lineman that can block anyone. Gardner coming back may not be so good either. He makes bad decisions. We have not won a big ten title now in 9 years and are a middle of the pack Big Ten team at best. Many of the best teams and programs went through a number of coaching changes before finding the one to bring them back such as Alabama and USC. How long do we wait? We have a great defensive coach. If Hoke would lose him we are in major trouble. MSU and Ohio beat us regularly now. Can't wait to be relevant again. It will happen.
We still have to give it another year. Hoke's recruits will be in their third year next year. If they can't start producing, then we have to question Hoke's ability to recruit and coach.
I know the offensive line is bad this year, but believe it or not, college players do get better year to year. Same goes for Gardner. He will be better next year, and he really is pretty decent this year.
You really think Gardner is "decent"? What games have you been watching? He's incredibly inconsistent, throws inaccurate balls most of the time, and now he looks scared to even throw anything after 11 picks. He had one really good game against ND. Minnesota and Indiana were defensive jokes.
I never got the hype around Gardner. His high school film never looked good to me, and while he finished last season pretty well, he hasn't improved much since he got here, and I doubt he'll be much better next year. He is simply terrible.
We have a solid defensive coordinator (with 3,4 and 5 star players) who appears to be overpaid and has underperformed. MSU has a great defensive coordinator (with 2 and 3 star players) who appears to be vastly underpaid.
I have been looking at Michigan and the offensive line splits (distance btw each lineman). When looking at the center and guards, I notice that there is a huge gap on both sides of the center with the guards on either side. When looking at MSU's line they have about at 1-2 foot gap between their feet vs. what looks like 3-4 for Michigan. The gap is so large that if the defense decides to blitz their linebackers the linemen seem to struggle to block them.
Is this a scheme issue? The spacing just seems too big compared to other teams.
Can we at least bring in the coaches from Northern Illinois?
Lol they had 2 weeks to prepare and still couldnt score a td. How fucking pathetic is that? At this point, I dont even think this staff is on MAC-level.
Thanks for your crappy snowflake thread.
Fire someone anyone, please give me a reason to renew my season tickets.
I'll take them!
for the last two hours. Brandon wants us to pay for tickets, seat licenses, $50 to park at Ann Arbor Pioneer, buy legacy jerseys, pay $4 for a small bottle of Absopure and this is what we get????
Borges has no options when there's 2 linebackers in Devin's chest within 1.3 seconds of the ball being snapped. What do you want? And don't say it's the Oline coaching either because it's clearly the inexperienced interior getting wrecked. It's almost never a DE that gets to the QB.
Yep. Borges made some poor calls, but I don't think he was the problem here. Not at all.
Michigan's problem is that it is built to have a power offense with a strong OL. And the OL has been a complete, absolute, failure. The entire team is built on the premise that the OL would be competent, and that premise has been invalidated.
Many will simply blame Borges for everything today, but that is dishonest. No OC running a pro-style system, or really any system, can call plays to succeed against MSU's defense with an OL that cannot run block and cannot adequately pass protect.
But changes need to be considered, because recruits are going to start wondering about us. RVB has already fired a shot across the bow, another "family fight" can't be far behind.
Its not dishonest to blame the head offense coach for a horrible offense. Its just looking for a spot at which the buck pauses on the way to the head coach.
I agree this one is not on Borges. I agree the o-line has significant issues. If all of the o-line issues were simply youth and inexperience I wouldn't be so disappointed. What I have seen from the o-line also has a significant level of poor coaching associated with it. I'm not a big fire Borges fan, but I think Funk should be informed to have his house ready to be put for sale.
There is really no reason to believe the Oline issues are not due to youth and inexperience. Take a gander at the depth chart. We have a grand total of THREE SCHOLARSHIP OLINEMEN older than redshirt freshmen!! Talk all you want about how other teams including Michigan have succeeded with underclassmen on the Oline. They haven't done it out of necessity. In a normal situation an underclassman plays on the OLine because he beat out an upperclassman and he's an anomaly. NOT because he's the only option. What the hell do you all want Funk and Borges to do with that?
How about scoring a TD against MSU. Over 2 years without a TD against your instate rival and with 2 weks to prepare. Your rationalization is strong here.
yes, his rationalizing is strong. It's called 'being rational'. it's a useful skill. I'm going to go out on a limb and contend that you didn't actually go to Michigan.
Look, many teams would kill to have two NFL linemen tackles and few red shirt freshmen. Hell, MSU would swap in a sec. Did you see us get much pressure on MSU O line? At certain point you have to admit that coaching bears strong responsibility for this failure.
I might be a grad, but I've never questioned someone about if they went or not and never will. It's Sparty that mines the stupid walmart theme, let's not make them right.
I contend - with complete confidence - that you are an arrogant alumni douchebag.
there are lots of teams with young players that don't end games with -48 yards rushing, thats not youth, thats poor player development, which is part of coaching
I would bet a lot of money that none of those teams played against the number 1 defense in the country in every category, who also happens to be jacked up for their most important game of the year at home.
like who? and did they go up against the best rush defense in the country?
We would have had more success just running QB sneaks as our primary running option in this game. I can't believe we had 2 weeks to prepare for this game, and this is the best this coaching staff could come up with. That wasn't a loss. It was an embarrassment.
You do realize that those negative rushing yards were the result of the 100 sacks we took, and not, actually, the running game.
Blaming this on inexperience when we have Lewan and Schofield on the line is more "dishonest" than blaming the coaches. We should have enough talent to get one td in two years, no? Just one td? They have allegedly a top five nfl prospect on their line and you are all saying its in experience? IMO This is coaching and scheme and poor player execution (which as a former coach, I partially blame on coaches).
this was the worst rushing performance in 51 years. . . there's no excuse for that. None. . .
Show me the team that has scored a touchdown with a one man front and I will accept your argument. Oline play is a group effort more than any other unit on the field.
I appreciate you have taken up Space Coyotes efforts to bring calm and reason to the board. Forget about comparing Michigan's lineman to other teams. Simply compare it against itself. Please point to any progress made on the line in regards to identifying who to block, being able to pull, and being able to block in space. On a consistent basis the simplest of blitzes and stunts confuses this o-line. These are areas you would expect improvement, both as a unit and individually. If you can offer up examples of improvement you saw during last years season or so far this year in these areas please do so to continue to provide calm.
Bosch is better at blocking collegiate lineman than he was one year ago.
The reasons that this line is terrible are many. Experience is probably the biggest one. Nothing prepares you to block a blitz like actually having to block a blitz. These guys are seeing things for the first time. Do I think Funk os a good coach? No. Fire him. But I don't know that it will change anything. They are really young. Blocking is really hard, man. Only repetitions can make you better.
The staff should have had the foresight to see this coming and gone after a couple good transfers or grad-transfers on the OL. Such a shame we are wasting another year when we do have a fantastic QB and good skilled position players.
I know Michigan’s football program likes to think they are above taking transfers, but it’s needed. If they have a couple open scholarships at the end of this recruiting process, I hope they do go out and get some experienced players for 2014.
This is a logical and realistic opinion. Thank you for being a sane Michigan fan.
The longer you guys apologize for Al Borges - the single worst coordinator Michigan has ever had in my 35 years of watching us play - the longer you delay any chance for this program to take that leap back to prominence. Borges is an utter failure and absolutely MUST be fired at the end of this year, after we get steamrolled by Ohio.
No real arguments. I'm OK with firing Borges. Always have been. I just don't think the next guy would do any better with this year's team because of the poor line play.
Also, if you think Borges is worse than the defensive coordinators under Coach Rod, you are stupid. For the record, I don't think you are, I just think you have poor emotional control and this causes you to say stupid things that well overstate your case.
I'm not sure that's fair. Rodriguez's DCs were hamstrung by being forced to run his scheme, which they didn't know and hadn't ever used, and use his set of position coaches. I don't know how you evaluate a guy that's not given a chance to do his job. And in Shafer's case we got a pretty clear glimpse of the problem because the defense was a hell of a lot worse after he was cut out (before Purdue).
If Michigan is running it's football program based on what the fans say or want then it's already lost.
Its not. That's the good thing. Hoke will be here a long time, and good will come of it.
But I am strangely, stupidly compelled to respond to stupid things. I believe in a world where people have to use their brains. I'll always fight for that world.
Maybe the university should listen to its former players then since they are saying a lot of the same things the fans are. Borges called read option plays at the worse times, a 3rd and 1 in the red zone against a 9 man front. We got a pick, he calls a read option against a loaded box, loss of 5. Both times we basically yelled out 'hey, we are running again, haha, yeah, we know you will blow it up'
Every running play looks like it takes forever to develop, fitz is terrible, he cant block, and he is severely indecisive. On his 8 yard run in the second quarter he got the ball and stood there for a second, then took off and got taken down by a guy being blocked who just stuck his arm out. RUN DAMNIT, JUST FREAKING RUN. He should of had at least 20 yards on that play. stop running the ball with a back who is afraid of contact, he anticipates contact and begins going down, how the hell does a BCS get tackled by a 1 armed man stuck to a tree??????????????
My point being is why is he calling the same running plays with the same guys who cant run them. Since you think the fans know nothing, go ask larry foote, benny jopru and RVB what they thought of that effort from this MAC staff.
I am beginning to think Borges shows up to team meetings and when he is asked about his game plan he throws a picture of a cat with a freaking pancake on its head up on the big screen and asks when the pudding is arriving.
2 weeks to prepare and this is what we get, cats with pancakes on their heads.
I've heard from one Van Burgen, but I would imagine there are a lot more guys who still support Hoke.
Besides, are these the same former players who almost unanimously said Hoke was absolutely the right man for the job?
Running against a run defense formation isn't always a bad thing. Teams do it all of the time and to success.Having 9 guys in the box doesn't mean a whole lot if they're stacked to one side, or you can get some misdirection going to give you an advantage to either the weak or strong side.
If they've got 9 guys in the box, but 6 of them are stacked to one side, and you run to the other side, that's a positive, but you have to execute your blocking assignments. We haven't been able to do that much this year.
To basically restate something I said earlier...
You can give a one armed man as much preparation as you want or game plan as much as you want before he steps into the boxing ring, but he's still a one armed man.
That is to say, some deficiencies are as such that no amount of scheming or preparation will get you the W. State is just a better football team, and it just so happens that our major deficiencies line up with their strengths.
You can blame the coaches for failing to develop any competent interior O-Linemen in the 3 years they've been here, but play calling and a lack of preparation were not the reasons we lost that game.
Just to be clear, I am not “apologizing for Borges” & I don’t see how that has anything to do with the content of my post.
Now, if you want to know what grade I would give Borges, it would be an incomplete because as of yet, I have no clue what his end goals are with this team because most of what has been tried just doesn’t work or has been some horrid chimera with Rich-Rod’s head, Hoke’s body and Denards dreads.
I also have no idea what offensive theory he’s trying to apply. It looks like we have a bunch of plays but no coherent offensive system to speak of.
As others have posted, with such bad blocking / pass protection, not much would work...
I’d really like to see what Borges could do with a good line and a QB capable of running his system. Denard wasn’t that guy. Devin may be, but the line sucks. It’s hard for me to feel confident judging Borges one way or another right now.
My point above stands though. The coaches should have seen this youth problem (if that is what it is) coming even two years ago and should have planned for it by bringing in a few good OL transfers to shore things up.
I've been a Michigan fan for almost 40 years and I cannot recall one "transfer" or JuCo player every playing for Michigan. Can you?
Few if any, but I can’t recall such a clear youth problem in the OL over the past 40 years either. Also it’s a different era & I don’t see why the football program shouldn’t look at grad & JC transfers if it makes strategic sense. The U of M student body includes many transfers. There is no reason that the football program shouldn’t also if warranted.
Hoke was looking for a transfer QB over the spring/summer so why not OL?
There have been a few. Russell Shaw and Grant Mason are the first two that come to mind. Tyler Ecker is another one.
Omg. Seriously. You must be joking. You've got to be Kidding. I can't believe my fucking ears.
on what point(s)?
I actually liked what he was doing today. It would have payed big dividends if the line was worth a damn. But of course he calls that one play a la the 4th and 1 bootleg in '11 that negates that, and kills a whole drive. Hoke needs to put that headset on.
He knows EXACTLY what the line is like and instead he always tries to run plays that REQUIRE a good line.
What plays don't?
Seriously! Jesus. This is about as frustrated I've been with this blog and the board haha.
Exactly. What kind of asshole calls power, ISO, stretch, zone, and veer from multiple looks when the line can't block? What kind of asshole tries to mitigate his bad line by running a ton of max protect stuff with multiple TE, RB, FB? What kind of asshole gets a bunch of wide open looks on quick passes over the middle that are set up by play action? What kind of asshole goes shotgun a lot to get these short passes out in time?
Why not just call the old play that always works when no one blocks anyone, ever? What's that play called again?
What would you have called that would have worked against a significant blitz on 2nd-and-15?
I wasn't a fan of that call, but to focus on that call at the expense of all others is ridiculous. Michigan almost certainly does not score a touchdown on that drive regardless. Perhaps he calls a short slant that actually connects, Michigan kicks a field goal, and they lose by a less embarrassing number?
Sometimes you get dealt a hand without any winning cards to play. That was today's Michigan offense.
The question that needs to be answered by Hoke, Borges, and Dave Brandon: How do we deal ourselves better cards?
But, why are we doing play action when we have no running game? That makes no sense yet we did it repeatedly. And, what was that one call where Fitz was assigned to block the DE?
The answers to the o-line are on the team. Kalis, Dawson, Kugler, LTT, Bosch, and Fox are all top 300 guys on the o-line. The problem is most of them won't be any better than servicable until 2015, Kalis probably next year. That fixes the o-line issue.
The real question is that if our o-line can run block and give the QB a little more time, does the scheme work? Also, are we as a group willing to wait 2 more years for it? Then, if it still doesn't work in 3 years what happens? Fire Funk, fire Borges, or fire Hoke and hit the re-set button? Then, do we have to rebuild yet again? I have more questions than answers at this point. I'd suggest if we don't show improvement over this year Funk should go. If we don't show improvement next year Borges should go. If we don't show improvement by 2015 Hoke should go and find a coach to fits our system as we cannot change systems again. I'm willing to keep waiting assuming we can maintain 8-win seasons. But, if we can win 10 games by 2015 something needs to change...again.
"And, what was that one call where Fitz was assigned to block the DE?"
A bad line call. That had nothing to do with the play design; Lewan was left blocking air because of a bad line shift.
Pretty sure I saw Lewan locked up with somebody on the replay.
...but I clearly recall a play where the line shifted right at the snap, Lewan was looking around for someone to block (he eventually doubled the DT that Bosch had, but it was late and not really necessary), and Toussaint had to step up to pick up the unblocked DE. Blackledge commented that it was a "terrible scheme" but no one would diesign a pass blocking scheme that assigned Lewan to air instead of the DE lined ujp outside him. It had to be a misread on the line call; nothing else makes sense. If the idea had really been for Lewan and Bosch to double the DT Lewan would have headed straight there instead of looking around for a couple of counts.
This was a 3rd down play. Michigan slid protection to the right. This should help simplify Gardner's reads on the play. Lewan screwed up the blocking by not helping Fitz on the DE. He should slide inside, look for a rush, and then help Fitz with the unblocked DE. He didn't do any of those things.
And this is probably the most frustrating thing for fans. Michigan has an outstanding O-line class in 2012 and 2013 but, as highly ranked as they were, they won't be serviceable contributers until their 3rd year in the system...at least. Offensive line is the toughest position to transition from high school to college. The weight/strength gains, technique refinement, PAD LEVEL, and experience all take time. Most fans are not patient enough to wait for this.
Louie, take a moment to step away from the keyboard, walk over to the mirror, take a look into it and think about the fact that you just typed "I actually liked what he was doing today" after Michigan, with an All America Tackle on one end, a senior tackle on the other, and a 5 star lineman as well, rushed for -48 yards. Please snap out of this delusion that Al Borges is anything other than a resounding failure to whom the game of football has passed by.
I liked what he was doing, too.
You did too, according to the posts you made before the game. You wanted a game plan that was damn close to this one.
But you didn't want these results. No one did. Hindsight is 20/20. But you did ask for this:
"Max protect with quick releases to Butt, or quick hitches to Dileo, Gallon and Funchess, being mindful of Sparty jumping routes. Great discipline to throw it out of bounds and avoid the sack. Moderate OL play (that will be the hardest part."
We ran a lot of max protect early and a lot of quick stuff after the half. Quick hitches to Gallon and Funchess.
"What I'd like to see is Borges softening the defense up with throws to Butt and Dileo. They are the two that MSU will least likely scheme around, so they should be early targets, and once MSU adjusts, that should soften the run game and over the top to the big 2 - Gallon and Funchess."
Dileo was out, and Butt didn't really get involved, but we did throw early and often and it DID NOT soften up the run game. We also failed to get over the top, but not for lack of trying.
So, if the game that you wanted produced this, has the game passed you by?
I loved the scripted opening drive too! Gave me hope and makes me wonder what could be with time and talent on the line.
that put us in 2nd/long or 3rd/long all damn day. Throwing downfield was working in the first quarter, so we STOPPED.
Borges set Devin up for failure, IMO.
They also started bringing the house against our shitty OLine, and got there. You don't know what the play calls were, and unless you were at the game you don't know what the routes were because you can't see them on tv, and Borges doesn't tell Gardner to throw it to one specific guy. The QB needs more than half a second to throw the ball deep, because the WRs can't get very far in that time. Borges didn't set Devin up for failure, the OL did. You must have missed the part where the announcers talked about Devin lighting into the Oline in the 3rd quarter after getting sacked for the millionth time. He didn't yell into the headset.
Michigan dropped back to pass a lot. Do you ever think maybe the D adjusted? Also, that's EXACTLY what The Only Colors blogger talked about. State usually allows a little bit early on and then shuts it down.
everything you said he already knows, how many games ago? You are right, the O line is atrocious and it would be a challenge for any OC to have success here but Coach Borgess has not made enough changes in the offense KNOWING what he knows of it. He hasn't added enough plays to take advantages of Devin's strengths while in game his adjustments were poor. Cases in point the play action when there is no chance of 'faking' the defense into thinking it's a run. Also, plays needing the RB to pass protect and having Toussaint in there to do the job...he can't possibly be the best pass blocker, can he? There were more but I've said enough to support my thoughts.
A lot of what you're suggesting though is akin to telling a boxing coach to tell his fighter to use more of his tools or to tailor the game plan to his specific strengths and weaknesses, when the boxer has no arms.
Such a great comment. What are the blocking-free plays that people seem to expect. This game plan was almost exactly what we all wanted. It didn't work because our line is very, very poor. What's the rest of this noise about?
Who exactly recruited the armless boxer?
Who has been coaching the armless boxer and not realized he was armless, necessitating replacement?
Once they recognized, a while ago, the boxer was armless - why didn't anyone seek any transfer players?
Where are all of the upperclassmen interior offensive linemen? The JRs, (RS) Jrs, SRs, and (RS) SRs who should be starting in place of freshman?
Why is your 2nd question so terrible?
When Hoke came in he looked at the upcoming depth based on the catastrophes that were our OLine recruiting classes from 09-11, and started packing classes full of guys. So I'm pretty sure he recognized the problem.
Why did you miss that?
Why don't you ask the AD that question, because Michigan rarely ever seeks out JUCO or transfer players? It seems to be a program policy type thing, because football has only accepted something like 4 or 5 transfer players in the last 20+ years.
Also, why don't you prefer that we develop our own talent?
Where have all the cowboys gone?
"supposed to be built?" Because it is hard to say "is built to have . . . a strong OL" AND "OL has been a complete, absolute failure" without implying the conclusion that "it [M]" is a complete, absolute failure," yet you seem to shy away from assigning any responsibility to the staff for where all this lalapolooza of failure you mention is coming from.
Once upon a time, the detractors of a coach since forced out of town used to remind us over and over that a coach has to design the game plan around the players he actually has. Has this shoe grown too uncomfortable for the current generation of feet to consider wearing it?
I say "built to have" because the players are recruited and coached to a certain philosophy. The defense is built to a certain philosophy, too, and the coaching staff has made it clear that these two units depend upon each other, particularly in areas like time of possession.
I have not shied away from assigning responsibility to the staff. Since the PSU game, and really even before, I have been fairly consistent in my stance that Borges has made some mistakes, but that the reason his offenses have looked bad have been largely a consequence of a bad offensive line--and that the responsibility for that probably lies with Funk and also trickles up to Hoke.
I actually posted a thread a couple weeks ago suggesting semi-seriously (because, rather than trolling, I thought it would actually be a good idea, but never expected the staff to actually do it) that Michigan hire Mike Tice as a consultant to get an outside perspective on the offensive line.
And since I try not to repeat myself ad nauseum, I haven't felt like rehashing all of this. It's not like the board needs another person yelling "FIRE FUNK! FIRE BORGES!" Insomuch as their is rational discussion to be had, I try to keep mine to original ideas.
that it is unlikely that personnel decisions at the AD will be settled here on this board; we can only be observers and critics and opinionaters about about the object of the passion we all have in common. I also admit that my lurking here has fallen off and I have missed much of your mentioned previous work.
The argument about youth and inexperience is mitigated for me by the examples of teams that approach M's level of performance with far humbler resources; the example of Akron comes to mind.
I understand that the D is dependent on the practices against the O. This said, wouldn't also be in the D's interest for the O to practice plays it can actually execute? For the O line to perform the way it does in the schemes it is asked to execute, what possible value can it be to the D to practice against it? Regardless of the long-term picture, I would think it mandatory to both the O and the D for the O to be practicing plays that will actually work in game situations. As happy as I was to see Fitz not asked to hit the line 27 times at 0.97 yards a pop, I still got a sinking feeling watching Devin take one long drop after the other knowing nothing was going to happen before the rush enveloped him.
Just as in the expectations-gap years of The Coach Who Shall Not Be Mentioned, I find myself asking, "Why is this happening?"
I think we should bury the "little brother" meme for a few years. I don't think it has helped us.
"teams that approach M's level of performance with far humbler resources; the example of Akron comes to mind."
Are you seriously suggesting that Akron's season so far is comparable to Michigan's? With all due respect to what Bowden and his staff are doing there, they've won three games, against an FCS school and two of the worst teams in the MAC. They took a 40-point pasting at home against Ohio U. Is that where you think Michigan is?
You're entirely insane or want to play to Space coyotes narrative. "He built towards an offense that has been a failure in execution?" Aka, he failed at his job.
The problem is that they are not built to be a prostyle, power offense. Borges might like to think so, and he is most comfortable with that kind of offense, but they are definitely not built that way. They will be eventually, but Borges might not be around to see it at this point.
We can't blame Borges for today when he had two weeks to prepare, 7 games worth of data to identify how poorly his offensive line is playing, full knowledge of the hyper-aggressive defense MSU plays, and they came away with no gameplan to attempt to attack it? Sure, the offensive line is bad, but Borges doesn't seem to have any ideas about what to do to minimize the damage they call.
Look at today. The first drive was somewhat successful. MSU adjusted to what we wanted to do, and we never adjusted to what they did. That is definitely on Borges.
You are full of shit. So if you are "building" your team to do things it can't, it isn't your fault. It's not Borges' fault that Devin has so little time to throw? A lot of the sacks were because Michigan again tried to throw downfield and again Devin has to eat it. Almost a non-existent intermediate to short passing game other than the few screens and the running game is a tire fire, but I guess player execution has nothing to do with coaches. After all, like Borges says, he doesn't hit anybody or throw passes or catch passes or run the ball. The players have to execute. It's just a shame the four and five star lineman can't learn right. What a joke.
Calhoun did it earlier because for some reason the coaches think Fitz has a better shot at blocking him over Lewan.
that Devin changed the protection at the line on that play. I'm not sure that's on the play-calling.
Do you think Borges was surprised by Sparty's blitzes? Two weeks to prepare.
Borges has the option of dropping play action.
The run isnt a threat anyway, so why run PA passes most of the damn time, when all it does is force DG to take the extra time and attention to devote to the fake? The last drive, they moved the ball, with no PA passes and pressure wasnt as bad.
Are you kidding? They ran play action at least three times on that last drive, when running really wasn't reasonable at all. The plays worked, too.
That's why these discussions are so pointless. People see what they want to see and fail to see anything else. Yes, the play-action pass on second down after the interception was a poor call, but the way MSU was blitzing (would have happened regardless of the offensive playcall) there was nothing Borges could have called on that drive that would have worked.
Borges did have a lot of short passes in the plan, particularly that reasonably good pistol-play-action-stick route that was designed to get 7 yards. Sometimes it worked, sometimes the receivers dropped the ball. Sometimes MSU made a play. There were inventive plays, plays that worked with the system that took advantage of MSU's aggressiveness, and counters for misdirection.
But there was never, ever any room to move. Because the OL is historically bad.
Do you actually believe the PA is effective? Do you really think Michigan States secondary was being influenced by those fakes?? This is unbelievable.
Play-action fakes frequently do not affect secondaries because they aren't necessarily supposed to; they are, particularly in the case of the pistol fakes, designed to freeze the linebackers.
And Gardner had windows to make short passes to receivers. They were open pretty much every time they ran the play; unfortunately, it wasn't always executed and it was only worth 5-7 yards anyway, so it wasn't something Michigan could use to control the entire game.
Welp, devin has no time, nothings working anyway... let's pick slow plays!
Yes the short throws did start to appear... AT THE END OF THE THIRD QUARTER predominately. It takes a while for the light bulb to go on for Al. Sometimes its even worse and the light bulb doesn't go on at all during the game... see OSU '12 and PSU '13
the offense is effective, particularly when the run is a danger. This was not the case tonight, it was MSU's defense that was calling the shots. They were dictating what was best for us to run and it wasn't play action. And to run it with a 'historically bad' OL, that's desperation at most.
but this is a fail:
"there was nothing Borges could have called on that drive that would have worked."
if that's true, MSU should just have called those plays all day.
coach needs to be fired along with the o-line coach. So thats the usual suspects isn't it.
Oline coach doesn't coach the interior?
How about not running a play action pass or deep route as the only two passing options? Or working with your QB to look at receivers not named Gallon. Or work in some quick hitters in the passing game. He's close to the worst offensive coach I've ever seen and the fact that he's been here three years makes me seriously question Hoke's judgement.
Next season is a make it or break it season for Hoke. In year four, you've got no excuses. At the very least, he needs to make a change on the OL, and perhaps hire a QB coach. The offense needs all the help and coaching it can get.
Because ND, MSU, OSU all on the road will be an easy schedule.
Nope, he's 2-3, at least according to those that threw around the 0-6 stat for RichRod.
and winless against our rivals on the road. . .
Some douche bag was right.... "Where's the threat"
no quality games and no quality coaching. This team has not been prepared to play in any game since ND. They are soft. I decided to give up my season tickets after ND.
Good I don't want you there.
To you but he has s legit beef. That was about the worst coaching performance from a collective staff that I have ever witnessed. Season tickets are a big investment and that was a perception changing loss on national TV. That game may have a lasting effect on how much people are going to be willing to invest, both financially and emotionally. Hoke had a little bit of time but not much. He owes the fans some serious answers after that pile of shit. I am about as die hard ad you can get and I am thinking about going Michigan free for a while.
App State, the Oregon debacle, 3-9, GERG's defenses...there have been several coaching performances worse than this one.
Hell, most of this I put on the offensive line. They were just terrible. No amount of scheming or play calling will save you from that sort of performance from the O-Line against that defense.
"We didn't execute."
And he'll be right.
He should certainly take a lot of blame on himself, and I expect him to. But he would be 100% correct in stating that they did not execute.
Great, he'll take blame on himself. "We didn't have our guys ready" or "We need to prepare better." And that's just it. Not prepared or ready after a bye week. And I usually don't buy into "emotion" and "swagger," but this team has looked passive the whole year.
As a fan, I don't go to the games to cheer-on and motivate the coaches. It's for the players. I wouldn't consider getting rid of my tickets unless the players stopped putting forth their best effort.
Time to let Funk and Borges go. Hoke has another year to get to the B1G Championship Game. At this point we are regressing. The stubbornness from the coaching staff kills me. They stick with Fitz and give the other backs ZERO carries. Lloyd, Mo, and Bo ALL used other backs and fullbacks.
Please tell me you don't honestly believe the problem with the run game is Fitz... The Spartan linebackers spent more time in our backfield today than they did in their own.
It's not ALL on Fitz, but would it kill us to go with more speed or power? We ran ZERO plays off guard. That is EMBARRASSING. If Stauskas is 0-6 from 3 they still sit him down no matter how tight the D is.
Actually, most shooters shoot their way out of slumps...
To be fair, this game plan looked like it was drawn up by Mgoblog. Very little running, lot of max protect deep stuff, a focus on Funchess and Gallon (so much so that the disastrous pick resulted), quick seam stuff/slants, more zone read than we've seen in a while. The line sucks. Fire someone if you have to. But I don't know how Mgoblog can complain about that game plan.
You're exactly right. These comments pretty much prove people just want to bitch. The rationale is irrelevant.
other than a couple of instances with Gardner. State is great on D and we are terrible on the line. I don't know what Borges could have called honestly.
Exactly. Every time I yelled I was saying "throw the damn ball!" Now that I've had time to settle down I just feel bad for Gardner. He had guys in his face the whole game and was obviously rattled, as anyone would be, Oline is too young, and Fitz is too small to be very effective blocking (and I'm willing to bet Green is not a good pass blocker at this point which is why he's not playing). There's no offensive coordinator in the country who could've been successful today with this team. I said it somewhere else in the thread, but THERE ARE 3 SCHOLARSHIP OLINEMEN OLDER THAN REDSHIRT FRESHMEN ON THIS TEAM. Our problems are still on RR's recruiting and fuck anyone who calls me a Hoke apologist.
There are 4, Chris Bryant, Jack Miller and the two tackles. Between those first two and the five redshirt freshmen, four of whom were quite hyped, we've found zero serviceable linemen so far between them. That's not encouraging. And last year when we had redshirt seniors in there it didn't go much better.
I'm coach a different sport at the high school level and I understand that the consequences firing an assistant are usually more complicated than what an outsider sees, but at this point I don't see a way around Funk being fired.
Did forget about Miller, but let's be real, Hoke would never even have recruited him because he's too small. The redshirt seniors last year were just not good and were never going to be good.
You're begging the question. You're assuming that if those guys had talent we would have seen it when that's your conclusion. I say if you need multiple experienced 4+ star options at each position to field a half decent line you shouldn't be coaching for Michigan.
We never had any problem having multiple options at each position in the past, with at least one of them having some experience. Going three years without bothering to recruit an entire position group was a novel experiment. It's no surprise that it isn't working well.
You develop your team and work with what you've got. RR didn't have issues with the linemen he recruited. You have to work with what you've got. Borges (and maybe Hoke) was initally and now with his recruits is too stubborn to do that, staying committed to running plays his team is ill-equipped to execute. Witness running power at Penn State and not using enough FB today to counter the double A-gap blitzes. And why on earth would you run a single play from under center today. That's hubris and/or insanity.
Put your players in a position to excel. Borges didn't do that enough today. My gut says Gardner's downfield throws were 60% on target. I'm looking forward to UFR, so execution goes only so far I think.
I was hoping they'd just stay in the shotgun and pass all day. They should have had a lot more quick passes, but whatever.
My problem is that the Oline is a joke. How can anyine even talk about power anything when you have such a soft line. Practice be just a big pillow fight.
Also, Devin Gardner seems to be regressing. He looks like he's afraid to throw the ball and that accounts for a LOT of negative yards.
It helps with the anxiety to try to feel some sense of control. I hate losing leads to fire the coach! because it is hard to be a fan and have to just watch.
It doesn't matter that this is not a video game where you actually make those decisions. We naturally want some sense of control over things that cause us pain.
But it is just an illusion of control, and sadly leads to more frustration because no one is doing what you want ("Run more pass plays!", "Fire the coach!"). It would be cool if people could find some self-soothing strategies that didn't involve bashing on your team (players and coaches), but this is the easiest and most convenient outlet.
That's what said earlier. Borges pretty much did exactly what MGoBlog wanted him to do and the consensus is that was terrible.
So basically MGoBlog would fire itself as offensive coordinator.
needed more failed rushing plays? Got it. Glad you're not our OC, or are you?
The ONLY quarter we had success was Q1, when we threw downfield. After we stopped doing that, MSU stacked the box and we did NOTHING...the short throws weren't even there.
Do you know why we didn't throw down field? Because we called plays to do just that on probably 10 occasions and the QB didn't even get enough time to ATTEMPT a pass. You know those sacks are not designed runs, right?
That someone is so stupid as to imply that Michigan was guilty of not trying to go down field often enough in this game is shocking. Truly shocking. It rattles me to my very core, that people can be so stupid.
This. It's hard to criticize play calling when your QB has absolutely zero time to do anything. I felt like Devin did all had could possibly do and took a beating doing it. Proud of the way he continued to get up knowing he was going to get rocked play after play
game you were watching, there were more slow developing routes being run than there were short passes.
What the hell was the point of PA fakes, when MSU never had to respect the run? All that accomplishes is having your QB hold the ball longer, when your o-line is already getting wrecked. If somebody could explain some logical reason why you would do that I would like to hear it.
In short, I think this game is on everybody, players and coaches alike. Borges with the exception of those pointless PA fakes was somewhat decent, but he needed to be a little better to give this team any chance of winning this game.
You are not entirely correct. Your general point is good, but there are hidden variables.
Some deep routes or combinations, particularly double moves, almost require play action. They take too long to develop to be matched with a 5- or 7-step drop. So they are paired with play action, which gives the QB something to do while also influencing DBs and LBs. I'd argue that the point of the PA in a few instances wasn't so much the influencing of the defense as the timing of the intended route combination.
"To be fair, this game plan looked like it was drawn up by Mgoblog....Fire someone if you have to. But I don't know how Mgoblog can complain about that game plan."
Finally we get to the solution...
You ride that same tired opinion out like a pony ride at the county fair. Lets be realistic. We were out coached today. Period. Really just can't take 100 other peoples opinon on it? I submit one that trumps yours and mine...
I stand behind my comments. Michigan should've played better coming off of a bye week. Our offensive weapons were not used properly
Now I understand you really think you are dead on about the faults with this team... I along with RVB would for sure disagree. Your uncle Al is a complete fucking joke. Let it go man, let it go.
As far as "what would you have them do with this youth"? Urban seems to have taken the same team fickle had and snap of 21 straight. Ohio's line? Better sure, but they weren't all that under Luke, so trust me, coaches are the end all to be all.
Thanks for the credit.
I also know we were out-coached. This does not mean that we weren't also out-played.
Al's not my uncle. I've never met the man. I have no particular allegiance to him. I just think he's got a tough job with this line, and I doubt that ANY coordinator would have a good offense with this blocking. That's all I've ever said. And I've given really detailed answers based in reality. I could very well be wrong, but no one has every really been able to convince me why Borges is any worse than any other coordinator who ever had a shitty line.
I am guessing you want Funk Fired...at least part of this sits on the shoulders of one Rich Rodrigues. The gift that keeps on giving. No offensive line recruiting at all...
Give it up. Rich Rod can't be the scapegoat forever.
Take a look at the depth chart for Oline. Why do you think Michigan is starting Freshmen and Sophs? And yes, that is because of RR's recruiting.
Can we start a club for people who actually realize this? Yes, freshmen and sophomores have been good starters before, but they are not the norm, and when it happens it's because they beat out an upperclassman, not because they were the only option.
It shouldn't fly now with the o-line. The o-line is currently as bad as those defenses were, regardless of youth that shouldn't be the case. People act as though UM is the only team dealing with some youth on the o-line. It may be an excuse to an extent, but this shitshow is worse than anybody could have imagined coming into the season.
Wisconson fired their o-line coach midseason last year, wouldn't be opposed to Michigan doing the same.
(See comment title)
Not everyone. I commented a few times in threads about last year's poor line that it was going to get worse. Young linemen are, by and large, bad. You can do things to cover it up, like pair him with an experienced guy to his side. But our entire interior line had a total of 0 starts (0 snaps?) going into this season. I knew it would be bad. I hoped Gardner could make up for it, to a large extent. He has, really. And the team is 6-2, right where I thought they'd be.
I agree to a certain extent. You can't blame Coach Rod for everything. In reality, next season will be the last time we'll be able to blame him for anything. It will be 100% his fault that web will have no senior offensive linemen. The good news is that the line will be better, even if only marginally. For the record, I don't blame him a lot for this regime's problems. Just the line recruiting issue.
BUT, and this is what makes your post an utter turd, the DEFENSE was the experienced group on his teams. There is no question that his offensive cupboard was bare, but the defense was in much better shape. It was supposed to be a strength. It wasn't.
at all in 2008, yet you can still blame RichRod three years after he's gone? That ship has sailed, this coaching staff is abysmal.
we still had Lloyd, we would still be winning 8 or 10 games a year. I'd take that right now.
2004 we backed into a conference title. Then got humiliated in the Rose Bowl.
2005 was one of the most up and down seasons I have ever witnessed.
2006 was phenominal. Until Ohio State.
2007 was one of the most disappointing seasons ever.
We hardly got humiliated in the Rose Bowl following 04. ..last sec FG after brilliant day by Vince Young. Not really disagreeing with any of your other points, but when you have a good case don't botch it with careless misstatements!
2004 Rose Bowl. Rose Bowl after the 2004 season. My mistake.
Thats funny because RR and his OL coach Greg Frey had much less talent to work with and his OL was never this bad.
That is just not true. They had juniors and seniors with junior and senior strength. They had Molk. They had Schilling. They had Lewan. All are in or going to the NFL.
You mean Lewan the redshirt freshman?
This ain't Rich Rod's mess any more. This is year three for Hoke, and the OL is an absolute tire fire. That's on coaching. There are MAC offenses out there that have better lines than Michigan. There's enough talent there -- and yes, its young -- that they should be getting better results.
Why are they so young?
you only get to play 4 years in college
The youth excuse only goes so far. They may be throwing freshman and sophomores out there, but you can still prepare them and teach them better than they have. The OL just looks incompetent, and that's on the staff. They should be better. And the fact that we're throwing true freshman out there is on Hoke. He had two recruiting classes before that to get talent on the OL.
And given what you've seen, do you really think the OL is going to be any better next season after they lose two senior tackles? The OL will be even younger and even more inexperienced next season.
Kalis, Magnuson, AND Bosch (along with Bryant) can't all suck at the same time just because they're young. . .
is this team better than richrod's last team?
don't want to derail, but seriously...they aren't.
I missed that, can you repeat that?
I missed that, can you repeat that?
CaCaCa COMBO BREAKER
Tell us how you really feel
repetition is a form of persuasion?
You posted this like 50 times and I agree with all of them.
Triacontaquadruple post (I think).
Nice knowing you
This is why we need the posbang.
Matteson is the only one worth keeping. Fire the rest and start over. This isn't working. Hell, its only getting worse.
Id like to remind of the years 2008-2010. This is not worse than those I'm sorry.
This is true. It also makes all this Fire X stuff puzzling. Why did we want to keep Coach Rod after 3 seasons full of this stuff but fire Coach Hoke?
You didn't watch the game did you? Msu was basically playing from the 50 all game the d did fine
um yeah, not bad when the d has their backs to the wall all day long and they spend almost all game on the field. So yes...Matteson is worth keeping. He can teach, unlike the rest of the staff.
Newsflash. Without Hoke Mattison is gone. Screw your head on a little tighter.
Shit, sorry guys, my laptop touchpad got a little happy there.
Although, I stand by the sentiment still.
It was pretty ignorant the first time you posted it.
You got the point across.
Well, at least we don't run one of those gimmicky spread offenses that can put up tons of points against crappy defenses but bogs down against good defenses.
If I'm D. Hand, my decision was just made for me after watching how this coaching staff prepares their team AFTER A DAMN BYE WEEK. Yea, yea, academics factor in. I'm talking strictly the football product. Also, Mr. Peppers might want to reevaluate his decision. Why on gods green Earth would any kid want to put their futures in the hands of these coaches? They are inept.
Is not coming
If I were a top level recruit I'd be gone. Hand is a lock to Bama at least they know how to coach and play football.
Hand may go to Bama, but this defense is fine. They held up as long as they could with MSU continually starting drives at midfield. So defensive recruits should still be interested.
Now the offense on the other hand...yeesh. But we don't have any notable difference makers coming in on offense anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
That implies they wore down. What was the excuse then at the end of the first half when they let State got right down the field and score a TD? Defense is just as much to blame for this debacle of a season.
You can't blame the defense when Michigan's offense was on the feild for about 2 minutes per drive.
you cant do shit when you only get 2 minutes rest between every offensive series. this does not go on mattison or the d in any way. they were put in a no win situation.
if I'm an Oline recruit or a offensive skill position recruit I would be looking at our offensive philosophy player development and probably look elsewhere.
How many wins did RR get? Because....
Our Oline is talented and if theyres not getting the job done then its coaching. Big Al made some horrid play calls today. Lets run an option after our D gets and INT. Thats a great idea. The D and ultimately Gardner cracked under the pressure created by our poorly coached line and horrible play calling.
Any evidence for this alleged talent?
Why do you make excuses for everything concerning this inept coaching staff? Are you related to one of them?
Because someone has to resist the ignorant mob? The Oline is young and inexperienced. It seems everyone has forgotten that Lewan and Schofield have gotten most of their teaching from Funk as well, and ALL of the pressure on Gardner and Fitz is coming up the middle (i.e. away from Lewan and Schofield). Talent on the Oline doesn't mean shit until the guys are big and smart enough to play at this level. Keep fighting the good fight Reader71.
No. I wasn't even talking about coaches. Read my post. It's strictly focused on the unfounded assumptions of one guy. The young linemen have shown next to no talent. Blame it on coaches. I'd probably agree. I'd just lime to see this talent that you guys see. Is it the stars? I care about play way more than stars, man.
I hope so but I doubt he does it. But he should pressure Hoke to fire him and Funk
I'll say it: I think the Hoke schtick is wearing off for me. It's the "aw shucks!" stubbornness that pisses me off the most. You know exactly what he's going to say in a press conference. "Welllllllll...." They're going to look at film and talk about things and "welllllllll..." magically fix it. Except they never do.
This is a guy who won't eat on a game day because he just doesn't, insists on walking around in a short-sleeve polo shirt in a snowstorm because that's just what he does. Why do we think he's actually going to swap out an OC who basically wastes our time?
He says that in press conferences because he doesn't give a flying fuck what you think. And he shouldn't. I'd rather have the guy who protects his coaches and players in the media every day of the week and twice on Sunday. And why the fuck do you care what he wears and eats? It has nothing to do with the play on the field.
The point isn't what he wears or eats, but the mentality of a guy who isn't going to change, especially when it's an OC he's carried with him for years.
Nobody gives a crap what you think and the majority are tired of your schtick bando. I thought the old guard died out with Lloyd Carr. I guess not.
Wonder if Harbaugh is tired of playing in the Super Bowl and living in a great city, making loads of cash.
Mattison did a good job preparing his defense. They played well. Im proud of the defensive unit.
Preface, MSU kicked our ass, and their defense is better than I expected. Prolly the best defense in the country.
Borges - Solid D- with a bye week. YOU HAD A WEEK TO PREPARE FOR THIS! A WEEK! Give Urban or Nick Saben a week and I guaran-damn-tee that this shit wouldnt happen. Its time to stop trying to fit a square peg in a damn round hole. You either dont have the players to run this offense. I find it ironic that 3 offensive people opened their mouths this week (Fitz, Lewan, Borges) and they played like shit. Its time to put your players in the best spot to win, and we dont do that. We know they are blitzing 7, and we use a 5 step drop. Come on. Im absolutely embarrassed to say I cheer for this team. Disgraceful that this is the product we got with a week to prepare. Im so dang frustrated right now.
Are you serious ? State was money on any and every third down. This defense is horrible.
Why does Mattison always get a pass? To win this game it had to be low scoring. He didn't do his part.
No they played well as a whole. They kept us in the damn game. Offense wasnt doing anything today. When youre on the field for 33+ minutes youre eventually going to get burnt. Long drives keep your defense rested.
I don't think the D was horrible, but that 97-yard drive was an embarassment. MSU was content to run and punt. I don't think they expected to score out of that. Our odds of victory might have been tiny at that point, but there was *a* chance if we got a 3-and-out and instead they slammed the door.
It happens. This team isn't great, but today defense played well with their back to the wall
Starting to remind me of the defenses under Carr. Always give up a 3rd and long pass.
Possession after Taylor's pick. We go backwards on all three plays and game over.
Defense played well and was coached well. They were not lights out but did put the team in position to win up until that possession. Afterwards game over on both sides.
I still believe in Mattison and have faith in Hoke but Borges is done. He doesn't recruit and he can't coach or call. Send him packing. I have minimal good things to say about David Brandon but he needs to make Hoke make that move. I don't think Hoke will otherwise. Brandon has his legacy to think about, and we know he will, so he has to make this happen.
Who wants to even go next week? I just gave my tickets away . I'm good on this shit.
Fire Borges and Funk. Today's playcalling was worse than last year against ohio. Embarrassing. What a joke. We are lightyears away from where we want to be. Sad to say, we are lower tier in the Big-10 with these fools at the helm of this team.
and I think the first point for me where I wonder if this is all really working out. We can recruit all the Michigan Manliest Men in the world but if we can't teach them to play football well then it really didn't matter
Hoke and Mattison are the two best recruiters, we need to keep them. Borges isn't known for recruiting, can't call a good game when we need it most, and doesn't seem like that great of a QB coach. What more is there to say?
There are good recruiters all over the country. It's OK if they are gone.
Is this where I type, "Fire Borges"?
Where do I go for that?
Snow. Tired of everyone eating. Time to shovel it the F out of Ann Arbor.
I'm logging in every week just to neg these stupid snowflake threads.
Fire all of them and keep Mattison. Dead serious. Hoke can be as good as a guy as he wants to be, I honestly don't really give a shit. If he can't put up wins against rivals and top teams he's gotta go .
If Hoke leaves I can guarantee you Mattison will retire.
When I think about it your right. Well whatever. So be it.
So, Sparty could score 40 instead of 30?
PSU would score 60 instead of 48?
Indiana would score 70 instead of ~50?
Lol. There's a snowflake thread for coaching?
Two weeks for that? Ohio will beat us by 142 points. Utter incompetence today. Do we have a ruining back? The lines are a bunch of pussies. I pray for all our lost souls
Were young. I dunno what else to say.
Im obviously mad...... about everything.
Can we just get a Rant sticky thread for the rest of this season?
Richrod never lost that bad to MSU
Yes he would have
When did RichRod ever put points on the board against MSU? He was 0-3 against them.
scored 21, 20, and 17 on MSU.
Hoke's teams have scored 14, 12, and 6. At this rate we're set to score negative points next time.