Smith vs Green

Submitted by Hail-Storm on

So apparently there was a big game this weekend against a big rival. And apparently I watched it because I have this large hole in my heart where my love for Michigan used to reside. Perspective is big right now as I just got home after my 2 month old got out of the hospital after getting meningitis. But Michigan football is my escape and this was more like a sentence than an escape.

It was a strange game in that, outside of the two kicks and late INTs there really wasn't anything bad that truly stood out. No major breakdowns anywhere. Just a game where everyone played just ok. No big plays, no separation from receivers, not much from the D line or defensive backs. Just a lot of mediocre play through out.

One position question that seemed to be answered for me though was running back. I just like Smith a lot more than Green at this time. While Green didn't do anything bad, like fumble, he didn't do anything extra. Although, I felt like he missed some cutback lanes when he ran into the line. On the other hand, I saw Smith make a couple plays that should have helped out. One early in the game when he ran behind a great block by kerridge and trucked a pledger to pick up an extra 3 yards. All these extra yards.

The other play was one where the line broke down and let 5 players in the backfield. Somehow he turned a 3-4 yard loss into a 1 yard gain and almost broke out big. I know there's a lot that needs to be done to get this team on track, but I think this is a choice that can help this team a lot. I also thought Hayes did a good job on 3rd downs. I'd like to hear if anyone else had similar impressions or why I'm of the mark.

Hail-Storm

September 7th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^

Not sure what happened. Original post showed paragraphs

Mods; if you can see paragraphs in original post and help fix, I'd appreciate it a lot. I know that you are busy with trolls and new accounts so no rush. Thanks.

ijohnb

September 7th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^

smith v. Green thing is such a big talking point but such an insignificant distinction. They are both good backs. Running back is seriously the least of this teams problems.

In reply to by ijohnb

Hail-Storm

September 7th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^

But we should be striving for gains in all parts of the game as we saw we need to on Saturday. I do disagree though. I think there is a separation between the two backs. Gaining an extra yard or two every run adds up a lot by the end of the game. 3rd and 5 is a big difference than 3rd and 7. I think Smith helps put the team in that better position.

In reply to by ijohnb

RockinLoud

September 7th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^

Agree, Mags and Cole letting Day have multiple free shots on Gardner concerns me more. That and DG not seeing his hot read blitheringly wide open on many of the blitz's where he took a sack/scrambled and took a shot.

dagupe

September 7th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^

Something makes me think Deveon Smith is angry when he runs.  I like it!

The O-line needs another year (hopefully Harbaugh, and Nuss will be together).

fergodsake

September 7th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^

I agree that Smith looks better than Green at this point. Green seems to miss a few holes/cutbacks, goes down too easy after contact. Smith seems much better at identiyfing a seam, breaking tackles, picking up those tough yards.

Go.Blue.Hail

September 7th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^

I think we know by now that Green is the more explosive back, but lacks some of the vision that Smith has. Smith is more reliable as far as getting a couple yards, but Green has more potential for the big play. I also agree that Hayes looked good, but then again the only times he got to run the ball was 3rd and long when the defense is playing more conservative to prevent the first down.

goblue20111

September 7th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^

What happened to the top 5 recruit? Is it coaching? Does he just not care? I know people were pissed off when Galloway mentioned maturity issues for him last week but showing up overweight is a maturity problem.  What's more important...working out or whatever else he was doing? I mean I get that the OL is a dumpster fire but Smith looks much better out there.  More explosive, better vision, doesn't go down as quck and fights for extra yards.  Green just looks like he doesn't care at all or doesn't care about football.

MDot

September 7th, 2014 at 2:27 PM ^

Honestly, I was never high on Green. I caught flack for saying this before, but if you look at his HS highlights, you see the exact same thing: he doesn't really make anything "extra" happen. He's a power back that doesn't run with any power. 230, but goes down on first contact. And when he does get out in space, no stiff arms against DB's, no juking LB's, nothing. In order for him to look competent, he needs to have a play unfold perfectly on the first level. Hasn't shown he has the ability to make anything happen if needed to improvise.

 

Perception wise, I was just happy we were able to land a recruit that highly thought of, because that was the knock  at the time. I was also hoping that the things I was thought he was lacking could be taught(and he did look good in the HS AA game, which raised my hopes), but that doesn't seem to be the case. I just remember being much higher on Ty Isaac, who reminded me of Le'Veon Bell.

 

With that being said, it's one thing to whiff on a RB, but there's no f*cking way we whiffed on 2 whole classes of O-Linemen. That's the part that's confusing to me. Because it can't be that we are misevaluating ALL of these players, beause we were close to landing Josh Garnett, and he's balling at Stanford. Just poor player development all around here.

westwardwolverine

September 7th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^

Midway through the third quarter, we were averaging 5.2 ypc from our backs (including Norfleet). 

I'm going out on a limb and saying our offensive line, while they fell apart as the game wore on, was not the reason we fell behind and were at 0 points while Notre Dame was at 21. 

Hail-Storm

September 7th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^

It'd actually be easier for me if I could pinpoint the whole problem on the line, but I can't. The promise was that with mediocre line play, we'd see a good to very good offense and a great defense. I felt the line was mediocre, at least in the beginning with some reach blocks, yet the offense stalled and I couldn't see why.

I also agree with you below that I think it's a benefit to rotate Hayes in a little more.

MI Expat NY

September 7th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^

I think Smith may be better than Green with below average or worse line play.  I think Green is clearly better with good line play.   I'd do what the coaching staff is doing and continue to play both, maybe going with the "hot hand" which could be settled by how the line is playing as much as how the backs are running.

Tator Salad

September 7th, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^

I thought smith definately looked better. Green constantly misses the cut back hole, which we had a few times last night, and dives into a pile of crap.

Also on the last play (the int) I thought it was telling that the ND safety who picked off the ball ran away from green to the endzone and it looked like green was trying to catch him, not just mailing it in...

Brown Bear

September 7th, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^

There are about 20 other things to be more concerned about then this after yesterday's game. But this is a never dying issue on the board so I guess this post was going to happen along with the 50 other posts since the end of last nights debacle.

Hail-Storm

September 7th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^

There are a lot of things that need to get fixed on this team. But you don't have to do or discuss them all in order. This seems like an obvious fix to one of the small problems.

I'd love to hear you discuss any of the other 20 problems with a rationale solution. I'm pretty sure you have the points to start a topic.

Filipiak1

September 7th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

Rawls rushed for a thousand against Purdue. Our backs are good the rest of the team isn't. Coaches can't coach... Were all excited about Manning but look at the DBs this year. It reminds me of the KSU game last year. Put a fork in us. I live in Lansing and constantly get shit from msu fans and I can't take it anymore.

Sports

September 7th, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^

Glad to hear your kid is out of the hospital, first and foremost. That's a scary disease and it's good to hear that you guys were able to pull through. Smith looks great. I think he brings a yards after initial contact dimension that green just doesn't. Green is faster, but that's moot, given the lines's propensity to crumble.

umchicago

September 7th, 2014 at 2:09 PM ^

reminds me of anthony thomas early in his career; just kind of plows into the line and looks for a soft place to land.  hopefully, he improves a lot like thomas did.

smith seems to run harder with a purpose.  i hope he gets the bulk of the carries going forward.

UMgradMSUdad

September 7th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

They both have the potential and physical tools to develop into very good to elite college RBs, and to my untrained eye, it does seem like Smith is a bit ahead of Green.  Green was able to depend on his size and speed to run through and by tacklers in high school in a way they he can't at this level, and I think he's still adjusting to that.

Jimmyisgod

September 7th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^

Smith should start and get the bulk if the carries. Green has poor vision and goes down easily on first contact every time. Neither have good speed and that's surprising, usually guy ranked that high coming out I high school have size, power, and speed. Smith run harder, has better vision, and is harder to tackle. Green needs to get a lot stronger IMO.

MaximusBlue

September 7th, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^

I have to give Smith the slight edge. He runs so damn hard. He's tough, physical, and runs violent. If he develops any speed, watch out.

He even has a higher ypc average. He should get more touches. We'll see what happens.

Krakhead

September 7th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^

I go for Smith, mostly because he seems to have better vision.  It may be the O-line, but I feel like Green ran right into traffic quite regularly.  Maybe he is sticking with the play, but it is annoying to see him run into the pile when there is open space available. 

I was also surprised with the commitment we had for the ground game that we did not try  different looks, or give Drake Johnson some snaps.  All of our backs have talent, we need to find what works, and not demoralize them working behind a weak line.

 

KennyGfanLMAO

September 7th, 2014 at 4:37 PM ^

I've been on the Smith train since he committed. He runs angry, and hardly ever goes down on the first hit. Green is built like a power back, but I'm pretty sure I could tackle him (I'm built like a middle of the line high school kicker). He might hurt me really bad in the process, but he'd probably go down.

hennesbe

September 7th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^

I like both of them.  Mich needs both of them.  I think Smith stays on his feet better.

And it's said that Green is faster but I think Smith is quicker.

And I'd like to see more of Drake Johnson too.

Steve in PA

September 7th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^

With all of the players they had out and the inexperience they were playing a bend, don't break, defense most of the night.  Just sit back and wait for Michigan to beat itself which we've all seen too many times.

Outgaining someone doesn't mean a darn thing if they are perfectly content to not give up homerun balls.

Sten Carlson

September 7th, 2014 at 8:36 PM ^

Maybe someone else pointed it out, but after we got pinned down deep in our own end by an ND punt, DG handed to Green and the left side of the line opened a HUGE hole, and Green did a jump cut to the RIGHT and slammed into the backs of his OLinemen.  Weird, it was like he totally didn't see the hole at all.  WTF?  Teams like Iowa, ND, Nebraska trot out these NOBODY RB's over and over who just carry the ball through a hole, and pick up yards.  Yet our RB's are completely worthless at times.  I know the OL, the OL, but c'mon.

JamieH

September 8th, 2014 at 1:44 AM ^

I don't think it's even a close competition at this point.  Why Green is starting is beyond me.  Sure, he may be more explosive.  However, at this point in his career he lacks the vision, balance & footwork to be the starting back.  If we had no other option, we'd be fine rolling with him, but we have a better option and that option is Smith.