Do all of these need new threads? The site has to be teetering on the brink of exploding right now. This has got to be a record number or threads in a day.
SI: The Downfall of Jim Tressel
Two of the three should be deleted. Since this one has the most replies, it should stay.
Have you even been on here on a game day?
The title couldn't be better for the timing.
Am I the only one is who disappointed?
Not at all.
Expecting more BUT there should be another round of suspensions of current players if the NCAA (or OSU) substantiate all those other active players who traded memorabilia for tats. Surprised there wasn't slightly more about the cars and something about allegations about sex for players.
I'll take Glenville graduate Rob Rose admitting to trading tattoos for memorabilia; particularly since he was not listed in the initial tat5 documentation.
I think the issue here is that there is just so much of this crap (and the fact that MGoBlog readers are the most informed about it) that it takes more than this to impress. These are serious issues, however.
I thought it would be much bigger. Hoepfully the ground breaking stuff comes with Pryor.
and saw there was only 3 pages, I had a feeling we'd been had.
My only thought was "Great, so more kids got tattoos."
There doesn't seem to be anything in there that will ratchet up the NCAA pressure, other than possibly some more suspensions for next season. Although there is no precedent for rigging raffles I presume.
Dohrmann is kind of a tool for acting like the content of his story was gonna be so groundbreaking that it got Tressel to resign.
well, if the evidence is there, there are lot of players who will be out for five games. there's no way they can win down fifteen or more players.
That he resigned just before it came out is not an accident.
It may be that OSU got wind of an investigation into Pryor and realized the jig was up, but this snowballed and that article helps it.
Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.
You're right about the writer. He produced some useful new information, but it wasn't a holy shit story. What a self-promoting tool.
I was about to write how "amazed" I am at how weak the story is. But I'm not amazed. SI; master manipulators.
We've been hearing breathless rumors for days, about pay-for-play, drug trafficking, sex-for-recruits, and all under Jim Tresse's direct supervision. A massive, new story. Eh?
And all it is, is the regurgitation of Youngstown State, Troy Smith's 500 bucks, and Clarett. And, of course, Tatgate. Tatgate spruced up by one new witness, as far as I can tell, and the news that the boyz wuz blowin' some weed in the basement at Fine Line.
And -- ya gotta love this part -- an anonymous assistant coach who says Tressel rigged summer-camp raffles so that star kids won. No word on whether Tress took lollipops away from other kids.
I was tempted to say how amazingly weak this is. Except it's not so amazing. Pity, that Rosenberg didn't get his byline on this too.
Don't get me wrong. This is all sleazy. It's all so SEC. May God strike the Big House with lightning if Michigan ever does this shit. But this is not the CFB Crime of the Century. Not even close.
Nope, you are not. Want to know why media is dying? Because of stupid crap like this.
this is all still against NCAA rules. They don't exactly have Tressel and his entire team in bed with one hooker or anything, but the media is hardly dying because it's reporting on NCAA violations.
I mean, it didn't have the pizzaz of a prostitution ring or anything. But, it showed that there are major institutional problems at TSIO. For one, the tattoo scandal extends fast the 6 players indicted in December, so there is a a very good chance that more players get suspended. Furthermore, I'm guessing the drug allegations are huge. It's one thing for players to break NCAA rules for tattoos, but to trade memorabilia for illegal drugs could be a huge deal. However, possibly the biggest point it shows is that it seems like Ray Small was right, everyone was doing it. This will likely hand TSIO some major penalties from the NCAA. I'm excited to see how this all plays out now.
That support crumbled suddenly over Memorial Day weekend. Tressel was forced out three days after Sports Illustrated alerted Ohio State officials that the wrongdoing by Tressel's players was far more widespread than had been reported. SI learned that the memorabilia-for-tattoos violations actually stretched back to 2002, Tressel's second season at Ohio State, and involved at least 28 players -- 22 more than the university has acknowledged. Those numbers include, beyond the six suspended players, an additional nine current players as well as nine former players whose alleged wrongdoing might fall within the NCAA's four-year statute of limitations on violations.
One former Buckeye, defensive end Robert Rose, whose career ended in 2009, told SI that he had swapped memorabilia for tattoos and that "at least 20 others" on the team had done so as well. SI's investigation also uncovered allegations that Ohio State players had traded memorabilia for marijuana and that Tressel had potentially broken NCAA rules when he was a Buckeyes assistant coach in the mid-1980s.
2002, eh? Tee hee....Vacated wins anyone?
Does the discussed 4 year statute of limitations untimately limit the number of vacated wins they will have?
look like they are complete idiots, which they are, but now they will be out for blood.
"Ellis, who spent time in and around the tattoo parlor for nearly 20 months, says that in addition to those six, he witnessed nine other active players swap memorabilia or give autographs for tattoos or money. Those players were defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams. Ohio State declined to make any of its current players available to respond to SI."
I'm not sure if you over looked that? I know its only weed but that is a BIG deal.
But that was already somewhat tied into the tattoos.
In the overblown world of the NCAA it might seem like a big deal, but in reality, if OSU goes down due to kids selling their personal posessions (which they should absolutely be allowed to do) and buying a couple dime bags, I'd feel more sympathetic than anything else.
I assumed we were going to learn some things that made me feel like the last 10 years of Tressel's reign were so flawed that it translated to their actual football success. But they only rehashed Clarett, Smith, etc.
Right now, until we learn more about the cars or learn BILG wasn't just leading us on, there isn't very much that makes this look like anything more than Tressel being a hypocrite for his self-righteous books.
Edit: I should note that I believe they should be forced to forfeit their title due to Clarett's participation being instrumental in their victory. But I already knew all of that story.
The bad part might be the Tressel signatures on jackets and other things and the equipment.
How the hell does OSU not know that supposedly thousands of dollars of equipment was going missing, with one player taking a ton of it? Sounds like something they "should have known". I'd love to see one profit making company that has one division just "lose" percentages of inventory with no good explanation?
I'm a little disappointed because nothing groundbreaking was covered. Players got tattoos. Players traded stuff for pot. Tressel rigged lotteries. Pryor got neat cars.
We knew all this already.
However, we did not know the in-depth details, which were explained clearly in the article.
I was hoping for a big bombshell like sex or something that hadn't been reported before. There was none of that. Basically Tressel lied about not knowing about players getting tattoos, even though they had received tattoos for several years. And the whole car thing.
I think this is the issue; we at MGoBlog who obsess about every violation at tUofOSU and have a greater awareness of their many transgressions. We did know all this stuff or at least suspected it; however, most people in the mainstream never knew about it and certainly not in that sort of detail. The fact there is a new witness on the tatgate and the named players (obviously would not have been done if the sources were not legit) are powerful.
We've become immune to the incredulity of this...because it's not fathomable that a school not in the SEC or called SMU could be so corrupt.
Accidental Triple Post.
I imagine the NCAA will now ask some hard questions about how Pryor could get his hands on so much gear. That, to me, screams lack of institutional control as much of anything.
So they lose nine more players for four games and most of Tressel's career at OSU is vacated. The Pryor bombshell wasn't there and Tressel is just as much of an immoral scumbag as everyone (outside Columbus) realized after his first three 10.1 violations.
I hope he's crying into a wine cooler right now for what he did to the greatest rivalry in sports. Fuck him, seriously.
I wanted more details on his Youngstown state dealings and the like. This is a nice summary but nothing new.
What do you have to say for yourself now?
It's not much of an expose.
I'll start stacking firewood for burning him at the stake. Heresy! Deceiver!
I popped and enjoyed some popcorn while reading the article.
I also took a dump while reading it, but I don't like to eat while doing my business.
just covered more detail into what everyone already knew: players got tattoos and maybe drugs for gear
Lots more detail, although testimony comes from impeachable witnesses. Still, clear evidence that the problem was widespread and long-standing.
Nothing much about the cars, but that'll be for another story. OSU will try to frame this all as a Tressel/Pryor issue; the SI article at least shows the practice pre-dates TP. Which is key for debunking the probable OSU "narrative".
Investigative journalists usually don't empty the magazine all at once.
OSU may be inclined to further obfuscate and reply by trying to minimize the significance of what Dohrman has written so far, at which point he'll fire off another installment.
lather rinse repeat, as needed. he's gotta think this is the gift that keeps on giving. So many layers to peel back.
as an aside, i guess Boren was right about OSU being a family values institution. of course that family is the Corleone family.
For your email/Twitter distribution pleasure, a quick summary of the points that were highlighted in the Sports Illustrated piece posted on their website at 9 PM EST:
- Tressel's willingness to bend rules went both to the innocuous (reportedly fixing parking tickets for players in exchange for papers from the players regarding being better citizens) to the odd (rigging summer camp raffles for prized recruits) to the important (blind eye to obvious warning signs involving boosters, local businesses)
- NCAA officials are investigating Pryor for the type of benefits many have rumored other players, such as Clarett and Smith enjoyed.
- Nearly 30 players are 'proveably' tied to resale of autographed goods for marijuana, tattoos or cash
- Hired equipment managers who, like the honey badger, don't give a shit.
- Tressel believed his own life coaching was more important than real life penalties
If Pryor sings that is what will blow the lid off this thing and at this point he might as well. He is now more hated than Lebron in Ohio, I would have to imagine.
The interesting part is him autographing things for players and the players being able to take helmets and jerseys with out being questioned. Those are not cheap items so when they are taken somebody knows. Nothing we didn't already know, they are basically really fucked.
He washes out on his NFL dream, which is sooner rather than later. Then he looks for the quick payday. How else is he going to gat a payday?
He'll probably take the Canseco route.
It wasn't groundbreaker but it at least dug deeper into the past and the questions a lot of people had when guys like Smith got a whole game suspension and the guy who gives these kids the money was never even barred from the program at all.
To me that is a big deal....but all in all this did at least show this wasn't a first time occurence and as far as LOIC it could show that for years Teflon Jim turned a blind eye. Not to mention rigging contests just to convince a recruit to come to TSIO is an absolute joke.
I was expecting more. Not that it isn't good to know that the problems stretched back to 2003, but did this really get Tressel fired?
not the product of a more widespread systemic problem. The independent investigation into Pryor probably didn't help either.
than the incidents themselves.
Tressel told bald-face lies to the NCAA. That should get him fired.
And now we have witnesses claiming that this wasn't a one-time thing, but was endemic. Had Tressel reported his knowledge of the tat-gate 6 to the NCAA, he would still be the coach today. Of course, he would have seen a number of stars for his potential 2010 national championship team become inelgible.
I deleted the other two threads started at the same time. Here's some comments left from one of them that I thought would be unfair to lose:
"That support crumbled suddenly over Memorial Day weekend. Tressel was forced out three days after Sports Illustrated alerted OhioStateofficials that the wrongdoing by Tressel's players was far more widespread than had been reported. SI learned that the memorabilia-for-tattoos violations actually stretched back to 2002, Tressel's second season at OhioState, and involved at least 28 players -- 22 more than the university has acknowledged. Those numbers include, beyond the six suspended players, an additional nine current players as well as nine former players whose alleged wrongdoing might fall within the NCAA's four-year statute of limitations on violations.
One former Buckeye, defensive end Robert Rose, whose career ended in 2009, told SI that he had swapped memorabilia for tattoos and that "at least 20 others" on the team had done so as well. SI's investigation also uncovered allegations that OhioStateplayers had traded memorabilia for marijuana and that Tressel had potentially broken NCAA rules when he was a Buckeyes assistant coach in the mid-1980s."
We didn't learn anything new, other than the magnitue issue: a significant number of players were involved. Nevertheless, a very informative piece
Just starting it. Got to this: oh snap
Yet while Tressel's admirable qualities have been trumpeted, something else essential to his success has gone largely undiscussed: his ignorance.
this is going to be great
James Burrill Angell (reply to above)
Ignorance my ass. That was pure covering his ass. Just too much bullcrap for too many years dating back to YoungstownStatefor him or anyone else to be claiming he was merely ignorant.
No...he's not more hated than Lebron down here....yet.
His ass is getting neg-bombed of this site after gloated about what this article was going to be about.
Exactly what I was thinking-- WTF was all that about prostitutes and whatnot in 10 posts a day from that guy? I had to read the article twice before I was sure I wasn't missing some paragraph where all the really nasty stuff was printed. SI's best investigative journalist dug that deep and only came back, basically, with more tats and a rigged raffle in the 80s?
Holy hell, if I were OSU, I'd rehire the guy after reading this. This is cleaner than most coaches in Div, I.
i was underwhlemed as everyone else, but according to the video at the end of the article dohrmann was only in columbus for 2 weeks. if he dug this up in two weeks im assuming there is still much more to be discovered.
at least thats what im hoping...
Damn, sorry about the grammatical errors in my post. I was hitting the bottle pretty hard earlier today. My question still stands, where's BILG???
If that's the same BILG who somehow established credibility during the Rich Rodriguez search and somehow convinced everyone Les Miles would be the next coach... maybe you weren't regular readers back then, but: fool me twice, not gonna get fooled again, as they say.
Pulitzer Prize? Only if they make a category for Most Overhyped. Even then, it's tough to beat Jonathan Franzen.
Woah. Jonathan Franzen delivers.
The Corrections is amazing, but I was a little disappointed that I waited 8 years for "Freedom."
For 2 pages, I felt this was just a fluffier version of the post from last night I found the link to here. That post was from another UM blog (mostly sarcastic or some such name, I think).
Then page 3 came along....
Items for drugs? High dollar gear on a regular basis? A Tahoe for tickets? 28 freaking players that are already named, and a distinct expectation of more to come?
I'll try to make this the last time I say it but Clarett is sounding a lot like Jose Canseco to me.
Is that this what has become of the game I love.
This isn't really anything new, just more. I wonder if some stuff got cut for lack of soild proof.
Is there any chance this investigation means Clarrett is taken more seriously? Will that affect anything?
where did this thread go for half an hour?
I'm waiting for Justin Boren to start tweeting about family values...
Re Boren...I bet Rich Rodriguez is smiling, somewhere right now. I hope Boren's little brother likes not going to bowl games.
The story advances the ball about five yards. That even more players were involved in tatt-fest is something, but so what? Can't get all that up in arms about kids selling jerseys for tatts (or joints). And we already knew most of the stuff about Tressel. For an article titled "How Deep It Went," it didn't go very.
We've stepped up the pressure for Lack of Institutional Control and established the long-term nature of Tressel's players' malfeasance. How much longer can the ignorance defense hold up? The document hunt is more critical than ever to advance the ball further, especially before the next NCAA ruling.
"His most memorable acquisition was a scarlet-and-gray training jacket with between 10 and 15 signatures on it, including Tressel's."
Interesting. Why would a head coach sign a player's training jacket? Sounds to me like Tressel not only had knowledge of these deals, but actually helped to facilitate them.
I think that could be very tough to explain.
to sign a jacket if he suspected that it would be sold by a player. That, or he thought he was bulletproof.
I'm still waiting for:
Sex for players and recruits
and there wasn't much on the car dealership information either
Here's what I took away from it ... boosters and a tattoo artist had control of this program through the last few years, not Jim Tressel. As a coach, he is to be in control of his team, and he completely lost that control. It wasn't just a few guys in one year; it was multiple guys over his entire head coaching tenure getting money, tattoos, cars, and illegal drugs.
I was not disappointed one bit. Good, good read. I believe, though, that more will come to light as NCAA investigators sniff around.
You don't name names if you don't have the goods. If I were in Columbus right now I'd be wondering about the fate of these other 9 players who also happened to participate in the 'TateGate". For Chrissakes, how many hours a day were these artists working just to tattoo the players?
So Maurice Clarett is discredited because he's a lowlife felon. And this Dustin Halko will probably be discredited too, on account of being a lowlife felon. Eddie Rife is a lowlife felon. These are the guys who have the most dirt on the program and are willing to sing, but Bucknuts will probably dismiss them as the lying rants of dirtbag lowlifes.
Which sort of raises the question: why are there so many dirtbag lowlifes associated with the OSU program?
If this is true you would think it points to a serious lack of institutional control. The sheer number of players is damaging enough. If the NCAA investigation corroborates the story they'll be slammed for that alone. I was disappointed more wasn't revealed (I am anxiously awaiting more on Pryor's garage) but it was still eye opening.
I am just hoping that the series of three asterisks that appear in several places in the story are places where paragraphs with really damning details are omitted until the story hits in print.
I thought that was the most damning bit of the article as far as character evidence. Here is a former OSU assistant saying (or at least implying) that he witnessed Tressel personally undertake an affirmative, dishonest action for the sake of gaining an advantage in recruiting. It may fall outside of the NCAA statute of limitations and it is smaller than the benefits that players were receiving from the tattoo parlor but it shows Tressel doing more than just tolerating vioations. It shows his active participation in a violation.
Oh, get some perspective. That raffle anecdote is just about the lamest "violation" I've ever heard of.
A five-star kid from Toledo goes to a Michigan camp and an OSU camp. He walks away from the Michigan camp with nothing but he leaves the OSU camp with a jersey signed by OSU players. He gets this jersey because an OSU coach rigged a game of chance so that the jersey - paid for by a bunch of unwitting high school kids - goes to him. That doesn't sound bad?
As for the use of the word "anecdote," it's coming from a former Ohio State assistant who ran the camp with Tressel.
The news wasn't juicy but the results from the story are explosive. Tressel? Canned. Pryor? Done. 2010 and maybe other seasons? Wiped out. tUOS? Compared to the SEC :o) Gene Smith? Lack of Institutional Control.
Tressel has no authenticity whatsoever. He knows exactly what he did and how to use a public image to try to build credibility. He thought his external credibility could be used to always say "Who has more credibility?". Of course the answer would be Tressel.
This goes on in all walks of life and it eventually fails. It is not a good long term strategy. Of course he did make a lot of money so maybe he got what he wanted after all. I'm sure he did some good things for people along the way but I will always believe it was done for manipulative purposes. I can't stand straight up fake ass liars and that is how I will always remember him.
It makes me even more happy with Hoke who I believe is a genuine, authentic person. Not sure he could act any different even if he wanted to.
You are full of shit.
Just to further confirm my stance,
For those who are unaware:
(the link on my browser brings it back up to the top of the page, go down to BILF's post)
pretty, pretty, pretty good!
I'm sure in the vest's mind all the good he felt he was doing justified or outweighed the wrongs. His little internal right/wrong sensor had a snooze button and he kept hitting it.
The scriptures teach that if someone hears God's Word but doesn't do it, he deceives himself.
At the end of Jesus most comprehensive lesson in the Gospels, the Sermon on the Mount, He tells a parable about two builders. The first, hears the sayings of Jesus and does them. His life is like a house built on the rock. And when the storms of life come and beat on his house, it stands because of his integrity.
The second hears the sayings of Jesus but doesn't do them. His life is like the man who buids his house on the sand.
"and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
I know many have posited that they will be without additional players... But given the NCAA's history in dealing with these things, there's every possibility no further sanctions would come down for the coming season.
I'm not saying they might not eventually get hit with (hopefully a lot) more. But the Aug 12 hearing is specifically related to Tressel breaking rule 10.1. The NCAA would either have to push back the hearing and broaden its investigation or start a new investigation into the new allegations. In either case nothing would likely come down in the way of sanctions for awhile.
Look at USC. That story first broke in 06 (with infractions going back to 04) and they are not going to start serving most of their penalties until next year. That's 6 years they've been dealing with the case.
I don't think this case will last that long. But realistically if the NCAA *is* going to dig deeper (as I'm sure we all hope they do), it's gonna take time.
The lack of any big bombshells doesn't make this article any less damning. The devil is in the details and there's no way any serious person can paint this as "a few dumb kids and their coach taking the fall for them".
It basically breaks down, documents, and exposes a widespread culture of corruption going back a very long time. This knowledge going from esoteric suspicions to mainstream "facts" is not a small thing IMO.
I accidently up-voted your post (wasn't trying to vote on it either way)...
There are new sources... Either giving new, or corroborating old info. Which I tend to assume are credible (at least for the most part) based on the reputation of the author.
Sure, the article didn't implicate OSU in the Kennedy assassination or feature pictures of Tressel blowing up the Deep Water Horizon with illegal fireworks he purchased from al Qaeda. But think of the events of the day:
- Tressel resigned in disgrace
- Tatgate, which was a big deal when it was a short-term thing involving five guys, has expanded to dozens of guys spanning a decade. This gives the NCAA investigation a violent shove from "isolated incident" and "lapse in judgement" toward "pattern of douchery" and "lack of institutional control."
- There are now suggestions that players exchanged goods for drugs, as well as other signs of asshattedness and general dicktitude.
- Completely unrelated to the scandal that just brought down Jim Tressel, we found out that the NCAA is investigating Terrelle Pryor for improper benefits, and "reliable sources" tell Eleven Warriors that Pryor is done at OSU.
As Ice Cube would say if he were a Michigan fan, today was a good day. Coming into today, a realistic best case scenario would have been that the SI article was big enough to cost Tressel his job and bring OSU further into the NCAA's crosshairs.
There has to be more in the print version. Just has to be.
Is the best fucking day to be a Michigan fan!
I don't know, the 1997 National Championship was pretty good...
somehow evade the torpedoes fired from the SI article. The 2nd spread fired by the Buckeye's own Terrelle Pryor may hit home. The independent investigation by the NCAA for improper benefits is a major plot line. Ohio State may not be able to escape this one.
Pictures of Tressel getting spanked by Marv Albert while stuffing $100 bills in Pryor's g-string? It shows that there have been ongoing problems of payments of all sorts that players were clued in about showing a lack of institutional control for almost a decade. Considering over half the board thought he as a great guy and had never heard of problems at Youngstown State before, no more the general public, just a little while ago, having this in print in big. Sounds like more a case of overacting imaginations than a disappointing article. Same people that are disappointed when watching those Ghost Hunter shows or search for Bigfoot when they dont actually find a haunted UFO or whatever.
"Did you hear that? What was that?"
/Run, run, run ...
"Dude, I totally thought I heard something coming from over here. It sounded like the buzz of a tat needle."
It's because the majority of the article was based on past information, which was already well known to college football fans and the NCAA or could really just be attributed to "dumb kids".
There wasn't really anything particularly indictive about Tressel or the university, at least in the eyes of a fan. Perhaps in the eyes of the NCAA, which is all well and good, but not for me. I don't find myself feeling too pleased if I have to use the NCAA as the standard of right and wrong and what's legal and what's not legal.
But really, the biggest disappoinment is that there was nothing to trump "Tressel lied". I wanted something like Ted Ginn Sr. funneling players into Ohio State to show that the program and the coach were corrupt and that they had gained some real advantage on the field. That didn't appear, other than possibly Maurice Clarett, which we already knew about and which the NCAA reacted to by doing nothing to OSU.
Also, just the fact that the guy acted as if he was dropping some bombshell, when in reality 90% of the information was just rehashed and the stuff that was new didn't prove that Tressel or OSU knew about it. The dealings with the tattoo parlor, Baker and Gamble, the tickets for the Tahoe, etc....What are you going to do? Watch the kids all the time, 24/7? If they are told they can get free stuff for trading their personal possessions that they earned, even if that is amazingly against the rules, they are still going to do it if they think they aren't going to get caught. That is college kids everywhere, not just OSU football players.
It was a really nice summary, but it wasn't the groundbreaking journalism that this guy was hinting at when he said Tressel's resignation would make sense.
Hopefully something better comes out in the next few weeks.
... there is a lot more to come -- it just hasn't been investigated yet. SI just made complete fools out of OSU Compliance. In just two weeks the reporter found 22 more memorabilia for tats and weed guys and came across one improper vehicle -- after a "thorough" OSU investigation on both. I think with the NCAA now questionning Pryor's use of automobiles, the media will decend on Columbus like sharks in a feeding frenzy. Remember, we now know a lot about the tats problems. Next, we will learn about the automobiles. Thereafter???
This article made it clear Tressel AND OSU Compliance were looking the other way or just playing ignorant hoping it would all stay "in the family." I think we all know it is downright impossible to keep everything in the family. Eventually, someone will talk.
This could be the article that starts even more investigating byu showing that:
1) The corruption started well before the tatgate revelations back to when he started at OSU, and even earlier to his says at Youngstown State.
2) That even after coming clean on the coverup that there were many more than just the 6 players that were cited whose names were given to OSU by the Justice Department in their investigated of Fine Line Ink.
3) That there is much more in players receiving cars.
I'm sure the media sharks will start circling by knowing there is more to uncover.
This isn't the end of it and I expect more pieces to come out as more evidence is uncovered and as more people start talking now that Tressel is gone.