No. Denard should improve his passing and the team should have a reality check and settle down.
Should Devin start against Purdue?
But the question is, WHEN will his passing improve, because it's not.
Sadly, that's the one thing that has not improved at all
in his ability to throw. He just seems have an inaccurate arm. You can talk about footwork all you want, but I think that's looking through maize and blue glasses at this point. Denard is a very gifted athlete; he just doesn't have great arm talent as far as accuracy is concerned.
brilliant, you should tell the coaches about this!!!
If denard is hurt, yes. Otherwise, absolutely not
If Denard is injured, give him a chance to rest up against Purdue. Otherwise, no way.
Denard needs to be 100%. We really need to focus on our base running game (running backs) and blocking. Denard can get us 125 yards on broken plays. Imagine how many yards throwing he can get if (insert back here) can get 125-150. He needs to be healthy, the line and coaching staff need to be discipline in their techniques and the WRs need to catch the easy/semi-easy balls. I would take Devin starting if it means Denard is healthy for ILL, NE and ohio.
Gardner didn't play well at all. He completely overlooked Hopkins who was wide open for a walk-in TD. He hasn't done anything to indicate that he would be an effective starter at this point. Robinson has at least had some good games, even if this obviously was not one of them.
This will not end well.
Understatement of the century. Even IF it was a good idea to start Devin, well, people don't turn on their idols easily. There are people who are still convinced if Michael Jordan came back at 48 years old he'd be an All NBA player.
I think it is a valid discussion to have...Devin seems like the better passer, but Denard playing will single handedly give us a win vs Purdue. Devin can't do that.
Overall, we need to ride this roller coaster this year with Denard, and hope he works hard on his footwork, as this seems to be the only problem
In no way is a fanbase that has built up a (well-deserved) love for Denard going to be fair in having that discussion tho. I'm not saying Denard should sit for Devin, AT ALL, but if in wacky hypothetical world Devin DID give us a better chance to win games, virtually all of us would be too biased to see it.
no remember what he did against minnesota and purdue is about as good as them, and I want devin in the game at the two set
Gain your composure !
NO. No. nO. no. n0. N0.
Our running backs should get the ball handed to them more than ten times. Denard will play a lot better when teams that are already focusing in on stopping him are forced to defend something else from time to time.
YES. This. ^^^
And, if the opponent has a bruising d-line, maybe, just maybe, Toussaint should get more carries between the tackles than Vincent Smith.
With Denard under center it is pulling the whole defense in to stop him and its all clogged up for the RBs as a result. The benefit in this is with defenses cheating to stop the run, UM should have an advantage in the passing game but unfortunately we dont have the ability to capitalize on it due to Denards shortcomings in that area. The running game with RBs is really hampered by DR in the backfield. The lack of discretion and interceptions cannot be ignored.
Im not a very emotional person and would never hastily call for a change but im 100% for giving Devin a few series a game at least.
I think we maybe attempted one run from under center all day (Fitz for 4 yards on the opening drive). The backs averaged 4.5 ypc today. They just didn't get the opportunity to get the ball.
No team is going to run the ball effectively if they just abandon the run.
I should have said in the backfield rather than under center. The premise remains though that DR brings a lot of attention to the line of scrimmage and the RBs are hindered as a result. I agree with you that the backs still should have gotten more carries and I thought Toussaint was a better option running into that front.
Gotta agree with Purple Stuff here. Denard and the Oline didn't execute this game but he could have been decent today with better playcalling. It was pretty atrocious outside of that first drive. Borges decided to go with the pass way too early. Why not give a few more carries to Fitz and Smith? This was the first game where I feel that Borges failed the team as a coordinator. I hope he adjusts during the bye week because we will not beat a good team with playcalling resembling what we saw today.
Devin should absolutely not start unless Denard is hurt. The sky is not falling.
What I haven't seen from either QB (and mostly because we haven't had an opportunity to see it from Devin yet) is the ability to stand in the pocket, read a defense, and deliver the ball on a consistent basis. Both of them make up their minds about where the ball is going before they take the snap, and that's a problem.
I just don't know. Denard will never pick a defense apart with his passing, but he certainly is capable of passing well enough to make people pay for overplaying his running abilities. If we really are trying to transition to a prostyle offense as soon as possible though, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea.
doesn't improve his passing by the end of this year, I don't see any reason as to why they shouldn't open up the job for next season. I love Denard, but I don't think they can win the B1G with him passing like this.
Devin didn't have his own problems today. And quite frankly I don't think all of Denard's play was on him. He was under pressure all day and Borges terrible playcalling did not help the situation.
Denard has the potential to be a much better passer than what we have seen at times this year. He will start to unlock some of that potential as he gets more reps, he is taking his lumps now, but it should pay off in the long run. I expect him him to be a much better passing next year. If he isn't, that is when you should look at making a change.
And PurpleStuff mentioned it, but the coaches have to make more of an effort to get the RB's involved. Denard can't be expected to shoulder the whole load every week.
I agree - benching Denard would be the biggest mistake we could make. Not happening. But, so your specific points:
1. "Denard has the potential to be a much better passer than what we have seen at times this year."
Disagree. He can be accurate on short stuff at times, but his long ball is not good, he underthrows consistently and his reads are terrible. He is not improving - if anything, his passing is regressing. He is also still interception prone. He is not going to get much better.
2. "[Denard] was under pressure all day."
Bingo. DEnard had zero running room, zero time to throw and was constantly escaping pressure. He was being eaten alive. The o-line totally did not hold up.
3. "and Borges terrible playcalling did not help the situation."
Again, spot on. With heavy wind, stop with the long ball. Stop trying to run inside when it is not there. Stop running V. Smith altogether when he is getting NOTHING. How about a screen? How about Shaw on the edge? How about more designed QB runs? Terrible play calling.
4. "the coaches have to make more of an effort to get the RB's involved"
Disagree. Sadly, our RBs are great guys, and have certain skills (SMith can block), but none are really very good RBs. They can get their yards against average to below average teams, but have never shown the ability to do much against better Ds. Each RB has gotten ample opportunities, and none has really shined. Hopefully next year, Justice Hayes or Rawls will be able to take over the starting job. Or, Brionte Dunn.
Al needs to coach up Denard. We really need to find a way to get our backs involved in this offense more. I take comfort in that we will look like msu's offense in a couple years. Have patience.
They scored 10 points against Ohio State. I will be extremely disappointed if our offense looks like and produces like Michigan State's offense in a few years. I just don't think that should be our benchmark.
I vote that welook like Stanford's offense, Alabama's defense, and Virginia Tech's special teams. A man can dream dangit.
Start? Absolutely not. Get reps in the second half when we lead 35 - 0? Absolutely.
Until we can get a real running game, it won't matter if we put Andrew Luck back there.
This is not all on Denard.
This. There's a reason we're recruiting so hard on the o-line.
Do I agree with the OP? No. But to be fair, Denard had 7 games to become an effective passer and has not improved at all. What makes everyone think that game 8 will be any different? Ya Purdue is not MSU, I get that, but lets be realistic. Denard cant throw. If Devin at qb and Denard at a slot or rb gives us a better chabce of winning, then Im all for it.
You can't have a real running game if you don't ever attempt to run the ball.
UPDATE: To illustrate the point, through 7 games now our running backs have gained 824 yards on 139 carries, good for 5.9 ypc and 8 TD. We don't have a problem running the ball. We have a coaching staff that, all preseason claims aside, doesn't call running plays.
I agree with what you're saying in principle, but with so many guys in the box, calling more runs probably would not have been effective. More screens maybe.
Smith and Fitz averaged 4.5 ypc. Every other call averaged 3.6 yards per play.
Not to mention running those guys more prevents the defense from teeing off on Denard like they did with the blitz and makes play-action fakes actually credible (not just a fun distraction before the corner sacks our QB from the blind side on 4th and inches).
What is your record this year?
I mean, the team you coach.
a few more quick pitches, misdirections and bubble screens would have gone along way to slowing down their up-the-middle blitzes. borges was a joke today. but i don't want to minimize the horrible play of the O-line and Denard missing on several wide-open opportunities.
Denard gives us our best chance to win every week. He is the most athletic guy on the field and I want the ball in his hands every play. What is really to blame is the aweful offensive playcalling by Al Borges today. It was some of the worst I have ever seen.
Denard has had some troubles but remember that there was a 30+ mph wind today on the feild. That would mess with anyone's accuracy. Also Denard's other talents and his experience more than make up for his less than perfect passing.
Amazing how many fans are willing to throw Shoelace under the bus. He will improve as the season goes on. Our problem today was inconsistency on both sides and coaching. We did not play 100% good Michigan football. 1 pick is not the difference maker here, its all over.
Our offense works. The problem is we went wayyyyyyyyyyyy too conservative today especially in the 2nd half. Denard needed to be let loose more in this game and I was extremely dissappointed by the playcalling.
Will take the loss as a teaching point. It was bound to happen sooner or later. With a bye week(hopefully Denard's neck isn't wrecked from those asshole Spartans), they will regroup and get back on track to winning the Big Ten championship.
I don't see MSU winning the Legends division. Wisconsin is a loss, and Sparty plays like shit on the road period, so they will drop one to Nebraska!!!
Way too conservative? Seriously? Throwing on 4th and inches. RBs who hardly touched the ball. A dozen tacopants heaves.
The problem was that Michigan wasn't conservative enough. No running game. No short passes. Too many silly gimmick plays. Gimme a break.
Unless he is hurt, of course. In fact, I say I want Denard in there full-time. No2 qb crap. Put Devin on the sideline and the only way he comes in the game is injury or a 35 point lead. Cut it with the cutesy 2qb sets. This is not manball!
I have seen nothing from Devin to prove that he is the better passer, just a lot of fans saying that he is.
No. Just no.
Yes.....if it gives us the best chance to win. Actually it looks like Denard was pretty banged up late in the game. I would use him sparingly next week unless we can't get a significant lead. Why would you not give him the rest and let DG get some significant game time. We need to see what DG can do when he gets multiple consecutive series to lead the offense.
Let me remind people that most Michigan fans thought Tate was our next great QB and were a little disappointed when Denard first starting getting reps. It just may be that our most explosive offense has DG at the helm and Denard in another role. We simply don't know. Purdue offers us the only chance to see that in a controlled environment. It is better to find out now than trying to figure it out against OSU or Nebraska.
I am willing to bet you a large amount of money that Denard will not play at all next week.
Play who the coaches think gives the team the best opportunity to win. But play one.
The OP has 1700 points.
While Denard obviously didnt throw the ball well, the wind was a huge factor. He still gives us the best chance to win. 6-1 at this point in Hoke's first season is about as good as we could have hoped for before the season started. Borges straight screwed this up. Putting Devin in every few series does him a disservice. How can a qb get in a rhythm playing and trying to throw the ball like that?
"the wind was a huge factor".
Knowing how iffy our pass game has been and knowing the weather forecast I was stunned that we seemed to abandon the run game and depend on Denard passing. Toussaint only got a few carries. Hopkins nothing and Shaw did not play. Baffling.
like this should be automatically banished from the site.
People who post stuff like this should be automatically banished from this site.
Devin would start for 7 if not 8 or 9 Big Ten Teams: Minnesota, Iowa, OSU, Purdue, Indiana, Penn State, Iowa, maybe Northwestern and Nebraska.
I hate to say it, but his passing is much better than his running is worse than Denard's running. I'm watching Washington, and watching the ball get thrown around the field by a QB who can move is pretty furstrating. Denard's one of my favortites ever at Michigan and it's furstrating that I'm going to say this, but Devin at QB and Denard as Reggie Bush would be an upgrade for the team I think,
Dude, you know you're creating multiple universes by asking this question, right?
where the 20-sided die comes up with a 16. Wonder what happens in the other timeline?
I hope this is a Community reference...
Look...and again, I am a big Denard guy...I think he's reached his ceiling. He doesn't read defenses well, now in his jr year, he doesn't have good touch on the ball, again he's in his jr. year, he makes very poor decisions at times -very!-. I don't think he's going to get much better.
I'm not saying he shouldn't play at all, but with the new coaching regime, and Devin full of potential on the sidelines, is it going to hold the team back to play to Denard's strengths when he isn't able to flex them?
I appreciate the candor fellas, I think the criticism has been doled out in a very Michigan mannish manner, however I was wondering if possibly we could cease from negging me? I just got over 1700 and I was liking the look.
I hate to hijack my own thread, but what's everybody drinking? I'm finishing off the last of my Bell's Pale Ale...
and I'm drinking Karbach Lager the Tigers,it's some new Houston brewery (I, unfortunately, live in Houston.
I got ur back bro, no need to neg the guy. Very legit question.
Yes… Absolutely Devin should get a look. It amazes me how people can watch the same BAD QB play week after week, and then come on here and blame the coach’s. Denard is sailing passes 10, 15, even 20 yards over WIDE OPEN receivers heads. I Love the kid but right now his lack of passing is hurting us more than his running ability is helping. I don’t care what kind of offense you run, if you’re QB can’t manage a game, facilitate a game, and not make turnovers (No matter if he runs it 20 times or 2), you will lose against the better teams. We weren’t out schemed today; we were made one dimensional by our signal caller. As always I hope for the best but if we don’t do something different I’m afraid this season will not end well.
I hope I am wrong GoBlue!
he is still only a 2nd year starter, and he has had two different coaching staffs in two years. And I could not disagree more, when you say he has reached his ceiling. At the very least his footwork will get better, which has accounted for just as many of his bad throws as poor decisions. And like said I am not sure what people expect out of the Denard when he has a blitzer in his face almost every play, which was the case today. The bottom line is you can't ask Denard to rack up 350+ yards every week, that is too much of a load for one player.
And I am not sure what game people were watching if they think Devin looked any better than Denard today.
doesn't require the same coaching staff or an 'age' status. Assuming he's been a QB since he was a FR in HS, he's thrown all kinds of balls, under all types of circumstances...for a long time now. As a passer, he has regressed. He was under pressure; apparently there was no thought by the staff to actually have the WR's cut routes off to give help or to move the pocket and get Drob out in space.
I still contend he is a slot playing QB. But that, and a quarter will get you a quarter.
Put down the alcohol. It's only the first loss.
Denard is the returning B1G player of the year. We start our best player.
He could start as a RB or receiver alongside Gardner. Talent doubled.
Look I love Denard like all of you, but I don't see why people won't at least consider it. We've heard "Denard will improve" all season, but I haven't seen any improvements. If Denard gets better at throwing, then obviously he's the best choice. But if Denard won't improve, are you guys really sure Gardner wouldn't give us a better chance to win? Gardner needs work too, but his arm is much better.
We scored twice. Denard was qb both times.
No. Denard should start. I even agree with the ESPN announcers on the point that bringing Gardner in to pass when Robinson was NOT injured was a mistake. MSU does have a good defense, likely the best we will face all season and in a hostile environment. No reason to panic...yet. We will likely lose another game or two before December, but unless we want to bail on this season and just start preparing for next year, we do not make a quarterback change right now.
Devin has the same problem Denard had last year: locking in on his primary reciever. That was obvious when he missed a wide open Hopkins earlier in the game. Denard has improved on that this year and still ultimately gives us the best chance to win this year.
The bigger question is who do we go with next year as Devin gets better and can check down onto other recievers. Ultimately Devin will be the better passer, but Denard is still the better overall athlete at this time.
Denard has not improved at all with that, Last week he had receivers running open and threw into coverage at least 4 times. Every announcer says Denard decides where he is throwing before the ball is snapped.
Devin's skillset matches up more favorably with the current coaching staff's skillset.. Whether or not that gives us a better chance to win I can't say because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. However, I suspect that Devin's abilities give us a slightly better chance vs elite defenses that can keep Denard's legs in check.
I honestly wouldn't have a huge problem with it. We're not going to have a shot to beat Alabama next year if they stack the box like today without a quarterback who can find and hit open receivers. No matter what the play calling is. Maybe that guy could be Denard, but I wonder. Based on the year to date (remember Brian's whole "this is unsustainable" thing after Notre Dame?), I have my doubts.
about this time in 2009 and 2010..."put down the alcohol...it's only the first loss"
Thinking 8 wins will be the ceiling, but I don't know how we will get the 8th one.
two legitimate questions:
1.) Will it benefit Michigan more in the long run to switch to Devin now or continue with Denard?
I believe the answer is yes. Denard is a great talent. But he is more akin to Percy Harvin than Tim Tebow. He was last year's silver lining. He has an amazing skill set but I believe he has reached the peak of his potential as a Quarterback. We have a true Quarterback with lots of eligibility left. We aren't going to win the MNC this year and we probably won't win our division, let alone the B1G. Develop the QB that matches the Coaches direction for the team and work Denard into a Harvin type role. If Devin is struggling, pull him to be sure, but we have to stop thinking of Michigan as one guy.
2.) If you're totally opposed to the thought of benching Denard, did you think it was wise to play Denard over Tate last year? If so, recognize that Denard is playing worse than Tate did last year and we have another Quarterback in the same position Denard was in in 2010.
You're moving him. There's no reason he can't still play 12 plays at QB. There's also no reaosn that he can't win the Heisman not playing QB. The field opens up with Devn at QB for Denard runs and bubble screens. There's no reason he wou/dn't be a great Reggie Bush/Percy Harvin player, which is what he what he's going to be in the NFL. I actually wonder if we're not doing him a disservice by allowing him to be QB, if he moves he's a first rounder, if he doesn't he's proabably a third rounder..
I think this a loser's mentality: that we have nothing left to play for so we should develop for the future. Obviously that isn't the case, so unless you think Devin is better than Denard right now, at this minute, then it makes no sense to insert an inferior player when we still have games to win. Losing games now for some nebulous concept of development is counterproductive - you need to win in order to recruit, after all.
And no, I can't imagine anyone looked at today and said, yep, Devin is ready for the job.
Exactly. This isn't like OSU where they are trying out new QBs because the season is counted up as a loss. Denard remains the best chance we have to win games, end of story.
(congrats on the win over GT btw)
Thanks. Takes a little of the sting out. Not all. A little, though.
to not play Denard at qb, but I think the coaches arent going to have a choice but to eventually move Denard. He is not a good passer and our O-line can't protect him from the way defenses play him.
Devin is tall enough to see the field..makes good throws(though he needs to be taught to go though progressions) and defenses can't rush 9 when he is in there so the ground game becomes an option again. When you play decent defenses you have to take what they give you..every team is begging Denard to beat them with his arm but he just can't do it.
There was nothing fancy about the MSU scheme. They loaded the box and blitzed. We didn't block well, make reads quick enough or make them pay at all and so they didn't change it. I am not happy with the quarterback play or the O-line play. Mostly I am unhappy with the play calling on offense. How do you attack an overly aggressive team? Did we even call a screen?
Obviously, Denard needs to be out there as well. But I think it's clear Devin is a much better passer and deserves a chance to see if he can improve past his rookie decision making errors. The bye and Purdue game would be a great opportunity for this.
I love Denard and he must be on the field... But at this point he's not a true "dual-threat" with the shape of his passing game. I think Devin needs to be on the field as well.
No. Hell no. Come on.
That is all.
No. He should play less.
"What do you guys think?"
Unless Denard cannot start for some reason, then no, Denard is still the QB.
The people who say absolutely no are the ones who said the same about firing RR.
What did you see out of DG that says he should start.
I'll probably get negged for this, but starting Denard is analogous to the following proposition:
5/6 times I give you $1 billion dollars
1/6 times I shoot you in the head.
If I'm dead I wouldn't need the billion dollars anyway.
If by "give you $1 billion dollars" you mean win football games and "shoot you in the head" you mean keep us in the game until the end then yes, i will take that. The fact remains, we were in position to tie with 6 minutes left. Did Denard play well? No. Was he the reason we lost today? I don't think so. I don't know why people are so high on replacing Denard with Gardner, Gardner played just as poorly and has no proven track record thus far. This isn't a season to start trying out new quarterbacks (OSU), with Denard we have a chance to win every game we have. Maybe i'm missing something but i really don't understand the calling for Garnder at this point.
So you're saying if we keep Denard we're going 10-2 every year? Yeah, I'll take that.
Yeah, I think you don't understand. If you really want to keep Denard then remember this: When we lose to MSU next year and you feel the same way you do now, just realize that you asked for it.
Listen, denard is our quarterback, and will be until he graduates, no matter what. Hes a hesiman candidate, and while not perfect, is a great playmaker. He will get better, but will have bad games, just like pure passers do. For the next two years, he is our quarterback. Not a WR, not a RB.
fuck this mentality, i dont care about what happens anymore if i say this. its the same as our president. did/do you support bush/obama? well you better because they were/are our president. i fucking hate this mentality and any idiot who uses it is a fucking moron. garrett gilbert was texas' qb too, look how that worked out, were they wrong to want a change?
needs to be quarterback. Did you listen to Urban Meyer's commentary. The guy knows his football (maybe not his family and career) but he knows his football. He said repeatedly while questioning some of Borges's play calling, "why would you take one of the most talented football players in college football out of the game?" Or, something to that effect. I agree. He needs to be our quarterback until he is injured and cannot perform or the game has been put out of reach (with us winning handily).
I think that gardner will be a stud when its his time but i still do not think he is ready. He missed hopkins wide open for a touchdown and fumbled a snap. Denard did not look any better but he has that big play ability that devin does not bring to the table YET.
The one thing that absolutely irks me about Denard is the fact that he trys to force a pass when he should run, and tries to run when the defense has loaded the box.
He is still a better passer than Taylor Martinez...
Cmon DG can throw but he can't score every time he touches the ball. Fact is they both missed wide open receivers for TD's. DG had Hopkins fucking wide open in the middle with no defender in sight for 20 yards. Facts are facts we just fucking sucked on offense today. If we go 11-1 nobody is going to complain, we all knew that this fairytale had to end it just sucks that it's at MSU expense. Let's focus on the rest of the season
i hate that saying, its not realistic
Pull it down and RUN
strengths then we might as well start Devin. It's pretty clear that Denard simply cannot adapt to what Borges wants to do so either they need to adapt the offense to what Denard does well or move to Devin.
Back of every mistaken venture and defeat is the laughter of wisdom, if you listen.
~ Carl Sandburg
I still have a lot of good things to say about this team. I refuse to be beaten twice. A few people have expressed anger at the players, some at the coaches; I tell you now Wolverine fans, this is when "your team" needs you the most. Now is not the time for these questions, now is the time to show them you've got their backs.
Shame on you for asking this.
Shame on you for equating a question of football strategy to turning your back on the team. If Denard would be a better fit at another position and the team would be better off with Devin at QB, then plugging our ears and saying "Denard QB! Denard QB! Denard QB!" isn't good for anyone... Including Denard.
You are right. It was wrong of me to equate the two.
At this point I think Denard would do whatever was good for the team. He stayed after the coaching change. He stayed knowing they were changing the offense. He has stayed with us and we should find a spot for him somewhere. He is a gifted athlete and is an amazing human being.
I've got my money on the coaches to get it right.
That suggested he was a superior player to Denard.
Honetly OP your critical thinking skills have been seriously messed with by despair beer or some combination of the two
DR is not healthy enough to play. Other than that DR starts
The short answer is no.
The long answer is no, (1) partly because Devin has a lot to learn still, (2) partly because of Michigan's heightened expectations since the beginning of the year, and (3) partly because Devin will still see time in the coming weeks.
(1) Watching the game today, and seeing Devin take a sack on fourth and long late, is one example still needing to learn. Don't get me wrong, he's got an arm, and I'm sure he will be great, but the amount he can learn just watching from the sideline is invaluable (ask any QB from Michigan who is/was in the NFL).
(2) Many experts had Michigan at fifth in the division (only in front of Minnesota); wins over Minnesota and Northwestern virtually guarantee that Michigan will finish in front of Northwestern. This team was NOT going to go undefeated; the loss hurts because its four in a row and the way it happened. This team can still win the division, or even finish in the top half, which is definitely better than initial projections.
(3) MSU will probably be the best defense UM will face all year, with Ohio next, and then Nebraska. UM plays Purdue after the bye week; if UM can get the offense back on track (a la Minnesota game), Devin will see snaps, and we'll see if he can put what he has learned on the sideline, into action on the field.
After reading all the different blogs since the loss there are plenty of mixed reviews about DR. The bottom-line is "What is best for this TEAM". I trust Hoke knows this and I believe you are starting to see Hoke wean DR from QB and give the job to Devin Gardner. Hoke is slow paced about this because he doesn't want to upset the apple cart with a drastic move. Hoke knows you can't win Big Ten Championships with a QB who can't throw. Be honest with your opinions, how many times has DR missed a WR by more than 10-15 yards. I mean, it isn't even close. DR just throws the ball without purpose. He is too short to see over huge lineman and doesn't read progressions, thus WR's get lax and don't run routes. Right now DR's passing ability is like a virus and everyone is going to get sick. Players, coaches, fans, etc. Do what is best for this TEAM. Even if the change comes next year, I believe the change will be made. I can't believe Hoke and DR haven't watched film and discussed this. DR is a great kid, he has provided us with some great highlights but not against top tier opponents. Comebacks, yes. Great competitor, yes, fast, blazing. A decent passer. Not close.
I love Denard... He's a great kid and shows us what all hard work can do for you. However as a fan of this TEAM, we need to do what's best for this team. That is place Devin under center or in shotgun and have Denard in the backfield. This provides you with the option attack or putting him into motion have a dump off pattern to him. Now not only is that your option but teams are going to fear that providing you with possible wideouts wide open. This is the TEAM we are talking about and we all know Denard as one hell of a kid and a better character, but to win ball games we need a passing offense.
You people are all on crack. Devin Gardner flat out sucked today. He showed no throwing ability either, and he is slow.
I'm not going to neg you, but really? Come on man! Devin played better, but Denard isn't Joe Bausserman or anything - he had a bad game. He's just a junior, and deserves to play until he physically can not go or just falls apart.
But almost all quarterbacks have one or two a year. Thankfully MSU's defense is the best we'll see all year and we're not likely to play another game in 40mph winds.
We're still an 8+ win team, something we haven't been since 2007, when we had a 4-year starter at QB. He also had a few bad games that year.
(I also didn't feel Devin was all that great either in this one.)
Watching the game in East Lansing amongst a bunch of Spartans, every single one of them thought we would run Denard for an easy first down. They'd basically conceded the tie and were hoping to avoid a meltdown. That call handed them the game on everyone's favorite silver platter.
Edit: this was just a comment on someones comment on the 4th and 1. User error.
You really can't make much of a judgment about Gardner. He only ran a handful of plays and never had an opportunity to establish a rhythm.
With a bye week and Purdue...Denard will be fine...relax.
I do think Devin is going to give Denard a run for his money NEXT year. However, right now, no...it's Denard's team. Once Devin starts preparing like the starter and getting a good number of reps in practice, he shouldn't be starting.
To me, this game clearly showed who was the better passer. IMO it's clear, Devin is the best quarterback on the team. Denard is the best athlete. However, I think you get more by playing your best athlete at Quarterback right now.
Devin isn't the best quarterback because he's that good, it's because Denard simply isn't a quarterback. He has to be able to hit a wide open Hopkins. He has to be able to command more out of the offense. Devin has to control himself that he doesn't go fucking nuts after one 6 yards first down run. IMO he needs one more offseason.
However, it'll be Denard's senior year...can you really move him to a Percy Harvin role in his senior year? It'll be interesting.
To answer the question, Devin is still a year away. Denard is the starter and hope we don't have to pass 30-40 times.
I wont even read this post. You Sir are dumb.
You sir are the idiot. His post has merit and blindly riding a lame horse will never give you the win. No ones questioning Denards talent but I think een the coaches are seeing that Gardner is a more prolific passer. That's why he's been getting more and more reps each week. I would love to see him get more time at te actual helm of the offense. Worst case scenario Denard is an option tailback next season and we have yet another fleet footed QB. How can that go wrong. Its clear at this point that Denard is not getting it for whatever reason.
The answer is no as long as Denard is healthy. I think there is a chance, however, that there will be a battle for the to spot next season. Hoke seems to be trying to get Devin some serious reps.
I'm interested to see what our offense could do with DG starting. We have talented WRs why not use them. Let's face it though Denard will never be a true dual threat QB. He's hit his ceiling as a quarterback. He's put up great numbers but his passes are all lame duck jump balls. We need him on the field because he is a playmaker, but he's only dangerous with his feet so by lining him up somewhere else were not losing much.
people keep saying Denard will pollish his passing skills and get better..but how long do we give him under/behind center? He hasn't improved really at all passing.
It's been a long day I'm probably just talking out of my ass but I think DG could keep a defense honest with his arm which would help the run game. We'll still get Denard the ball just not as a QB. Good disciplined defenses can shut down a one dimensional offense. I apologize to whoever reads this as I probably wasted your time. This is just my opinion, Id love to see more out of DG, but still incorporate Denard.
What did you see today that makes this seem like a good idea? Why would we pull Denard Robinson for Denard Robinson minus the running ability?
because the Dood can't throw. Devin atleast completed sum basic passes. I love Denard, but its a joke when he throws, when every Spartan fan in the room laugh at his passes and dare him to throw, its a joke, I actually think I'm more accurate than Denard. I'm a big Michigan fan but Devin should be the qb. have Denard be our Percy harvin.
denard might be the best/worst thing to ever happen to us. great guy...humble...electrifying....but...
greatness is measured by big game wins. outside of nd...he has 0. if we go 9-3 and lose to msu nebraska and ohio...i say its time for the future and devin gardner as our starter.
howeva...IF denard beats ohio...then my opinion changes.
maybe we should give up on an electrifying QB in his second year of starting who is an inconsistent passer.
ya, maybe texas should have given up on vince young too.
maybe tenn should have given up on manning for not winning the big games too.
the lack of a running game isnt all on the rb's and oline. msu was blitzing 5 or 6 on every play. the defense was committed to forcing denard to throw the ball, and in doing so they outnumbered or blockers and clogged up the running lanes. and we didnt make them pay for it. we can only establish a running game if defenses respect the pass. part of it is denard was missing open receivers (both with his throws and his reads). part of it is also that the playcalling really didn't adjust to the consistent blitz.
denard is an awesome athlete, no question. but blaming denard's struggles on the lack of running game is way off in my opinion. if anything, its denards passing deficiencies that are the cause of our running problems.
As long as Denard is under center (or in the shotgun), opposing teams will stack the box and play the run first. Until we can pass the ball donw field effectively, as we did against MN, more handoffs to the backs is not a vaible solution to our problem. Waiting to make a change at QB will likely result in 8-4 this year and 7-5 or 8-4 next. Any team with a good athletes on defense (MSU, NEB, OSU and possibly ILL) will shut us down.
Denard Robinson is most dangerous when he gets space...let's line him up where we can get him in space every play. He is a carbon copy of Percy Harvin
delete double post
I was an advocate for Denard since his freshman year, but I'm a little baffled at the seemingly blind support of him this year. Look at his numbers, and most importantly, look at him play, and he has taken a step back since last year - very disheartening. I've seen nothing from him this year that would make him an absolute favorite over Gardner. Sure, he's a playmaker and can rip off a big run here and there, but many of his big pass plays are bailouts from the WRs, or they're canceled out by his lack of accuracy and interceptions. Denard made a huge jump in QB ability last year, but it seems as if he's plateaued. I'm not buying the argument anymore that he'll get better this year because it just hasn't beenx happening - what evidence have you seen?
Purdue is a great opportunity to get Gardner some real quality PT and actually run the offense rather than just coming in for a few plays. Gardner looks like he could be the better QB now, and I was really frustrated that we wasn't given a chance earlier in the game. He's the future of this team and I see him taking over next year, and possibly towards the end of this season.
A quarterback that can't throw accurately mixed with very sub par offensive line just isn't going to work out against good defenses. Everyone who is saying run the ball more, what the hell is that going to do? They had 8 in the box blitzing mercifully almost every play. No way we'd block them and gain anything running, not with that O line. Hell, we gave up a sack when they rushed three people, let alone almost the whole team. Plus were not helping the line with a QB who can't throw. They're asked to block 7 or 8 people every play because the defense doesn't have to play pass coverage and can just bring the house every play.
Sure some more quick slants and screens would of been nice, but we missed a lot of open receivers down field that were wide open. If we had a QB that they had to respect as a passer, it'd of been different. They knew we couldn't throw, and were able to blitz every play without any repercussions. Not exactly what you want, especially with a weak O line. It's quite frustrating to watch how inept we are against any decent team. Neg away, but I want a QUARTERBACK! Denard is awesome and very talented. We can still use him for many things and can still change games for us out in space. A QB though, that he is not.
I think it's the opposite, you let Denard throw the majority of the time to get more in game experience, he just never looks comfortable in the pocket
I normally just read posts, not reply; but whoever started this must be smoking some good shit. You got to be out of your mind to think Devin is a better passer right now. The best player in college football, Denard, and hometown kid Devin have both been in this system the same amount of time. They are both in the first year under Coach Borges and who has the better numbers. Let me check, Denard does in all aspects of the passing game. Yes, the INTs are higher then last year through as many games; but remeber that the Spread uses a whole hell of a lot more quick screens and such to get WR in space. Denard's numbers including completion % are higher then Devin's are.
We are still a zone blocking O-line and manball does not work as well on the bigger Defenses.
Whoever tried to question Denard's leadership ability needs to be taken behind the wood shed and be beaten. Denard is this team, Denard bleeds this team and Denard puts leaves everything out on that field. If that is not leadership on a football team, then what the hell is? Being a loud mouth, cry when I lose, little bitch, who needs anti-depressants because of extreme ups and downs, is not the only way to lead.
Attitude reflect leadership....is one way, not the only way.
Lead by example...that is how you're a TEAM player. The team, the team, the team. Denard is a Bo QB.
Oh, so the last 30 seconds of the ND game, there were only jump balls that the WR bailed Shoelace out on. As I recall, the only jump ball was to Roundtree at the end. The other two were strikes to KG and JG.
One on one coverage with only 3 defenders back and 8 in the box means you throw a jump ball, because odds are you will have less then 3 seconds to throw.
You want a Chad Henne behind center/ shotgun. I will take Denard's legs and 58% cmp. over just an arm, any day.
the team, the team, the TEAM