wow, just wow. We have like what, 10 commitments now? The hits just keep coming...
Shawn Conway can't qualify, has to go to JUCO (Updated with info per TomVH)
11 commitments, counting Dee.
Read this, found interesting.
The Orlando Sentinel is no better than the Freep. This is just rumor mongering at best.
Thats the same paper that reported he was favoring bama days before he committed to us.
TVH just talked to the writer and posted
but it seems like the coaches are doing very well with Devin Lucien so that makes it slightly less bad.
Yea now where's that guy saying who we didn't need any more WRs on Lucien's thread?
On Rivals, was not sure if i was able to post that on here or if it fell under premium information. Very disappointing, coached him in a few 7 on 7's in the offseason last year. He is quite the talent, hope he takes the initiative to do what he has to do to get in a Michigan uniform.
Good luck Shawn!
Be thankful it's not a position of immediate need.
I'm not sure he'd have played in 2011. Isn't everyone back except Kelvin Grady? The real issue is whether he'll ever become eligible and if he does, whether he sticks to his Michigan goal.
Kelvin has another year.
That just makes my post even more on point.
He's a senior but his eligibility is a junior. He played two basketball years and is allowed three years in another sport because you can have 5 total years of collegiate competition as long as at least one of those years is in a different sport (a la Greg Paulus at Syracuse last year).
any chance he can go the way of Kinard and go to prep school instead?
I am not sure which process would be better for players. I know in the past that it has been hard for players who went to Juco to play for Michigan. The last guy I can remember is Austin Panter(sp??).
But UM almost never accepts JUCOs and from the looks of it Kinard is all set to be a Wolverine, so I'm guessing Prep School is better... plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think prep school counts against your eligibility (heard that somewhere)... could be wrong though
I wouldn't fully count on Kinard getting to Michigan. The coaches have been dragging their feet a bit on offering Kinard a second chance to join the squad.
But you are correct that prep school does NOT count against college eligibility. Kinard still has 5 years to play 4.
I wouldn't fully count on Kinard getting to Michigan. The coaches have been dragging their feet a bit on offering Kinard a second chance to join the squad.
Why is that?
Kinard doesn't necessarily play a position of need, especially if the coaches can reel in Kris Frost. With Kellen Jones in the fold, Desmond Morgan a likely commit, and a guy like Frost out there, he's really not required. And contrary to Kinard, Jones and Morgan are very solid students; I'm not sure about Frost's academics, but I haven't heard any concerns about him.
interesting, I would think they'd still want him at very least for depth... i dunno, maybe I've gotten to attached to the idea of him suiting up for us but I really want to see him in a winged helmet (lol, and not just in MS Paint)
are at the point depth-wise that the coaches don't feel the need to offer questionable qualifiers anymore? I can definately live with us taking players who are strong academically and who the coaches have scouted heavily. It seems like we took some chances on players the first couple of years and maybe even early this year. Now, I think the coaches have the depth to be more selective. Selective means we likely get more impact players and don't have to take chances on good players who might or might not make it. I think we've turned the corner. Go Blue!
From the way our depth chart looks, we've got depth at some positions, but we desperately need players at others, like FS. Kinard's just unlucky he doesn't play one of those positions I gather.
Dont shoot the messenger? Ahhh!
Almost a certain redshirt in 2011 anyways - unless needed for one play on special teams.
That is not good news. I need the twins in my wife's belly to grow up quickly.
Can you make sure one plays WR and one DT?
He'll buy a wolverine, make one wrestle it, and the other chase it.
Have to ask the Doctor when the SPARQ test takes place, that will be the initial tale of the tape.
Make sure both can kick!
Just make sure Barwis is their pediatrician.
Through a little Baby Einstein in there in order to ensure that they qualify.
Sid will help with the science courses.
Not trying to bust your balls but I thought it was funny in a post about making sure they qualified you used through instead of throw.
Don't forget the kicker......
Like someone said, we seem to be a good place for Lucien. They seem like similar players.
There is a premium rivals article for any interested:
This makes me think about the young guys we have like Ricardo Miller. I wonder what impact he will have next year?
Until '12 anyways. If he does go JUCO then I would not expect him to ever come here as UM rarely accept JUCO transfers. Russell Shaw and Austin Painter are the only two I can think who have been accepted into UM.
Those transfers you cite were most likely 99% academic transfers, not for athletics. Those kids that got in probably aced their first year at junior college.
I would suggest modifying the OP on the sarcasm factor.
Lucien, Lucien, Lucien, (Watkins), Lucien.
Love the Tribe reference. I'd +1 you if I could from iPhone.
I will take care of that.
I had been emailed about a month ago about WR Shawn Conway not qualifying, so it's not a shock to the coaches.
They're in good position to replace Conway with a few other prospects, mainly Kris Frost and Devin Lucien.
I guess this probably explains the increased push on Lucien. Some other guys to watch out for: NJ TE/QB/WR Tanner McEvoy is coming in on visit soon...although he doesn't seem like a D1 WR to me. Can't forget about SC WR Hakeem Flowers, either.
I tweeted this, but I received an email from someone close to him around a month ago saying he wouldn't qualify. The coaches knew this was coming, which is why they're going after receivers now.
It's not good news, but it's not a shock and as some have said we're in good position with some good receivers.
Mmmm foooood news. I'm now hungry.
I know after Watkins committed to Clemson you expressed some surprise about how it went down. Do you have any further thoughts on that whole situation? And does snake oil mesh well in Fort Myers, FL?
Tom, do you really think Frost projects better at WR instead of LB, or are you just including him there because he can play WR and it is his position of choice? I think we have a much bigger need for him on the defensive side of the ball, but what do I know.
Yeah, I found this out a couple weeks ago, but it was being withheld for a reason, so I didn't mention it. The Devin Lucien offer happened right about the same time that I heard this news, so I don't think it's a coincidence that Lucien wasn't offered until recently.
I know that Conway had some impressive leaping ability and height. Lucien is listed shorter than Conway, but are they similar types?
Devin makes several plays in which he jumps quite superbly. Think Hemingway.
They're somewhat similar. Lucien is a little shorter, but he's much more polished as a receiver. He runs better routes than Conway, and he's probably a bit faster, too. Lucien isn't really a burner, but he's got above average speed. Both are athletic and can go up and get the ball.
I liked Conway since the beginning, but I like Lucien more.
Question: Does every school in the Big Ten deal with this amount of kids not able to qualify and what is the average across the schools in the Big Ten?
It depends on the school. Obviously the lower the intial admission standards the less likely you're going to run into this but everyone deals with it. Not sure if MSU has ever lost one but there's a rumor floating around that back in 1974 they had somedody not qualify but it's never been confirmed.
"Qualifying" is an NCAA thing and has to do with standards set for every Division 1 institution. Admissions standards (Dorsey), as we all know, are much higher at some institutions.
Some schools have higher thresholds for admissions for athletes than the NCAA minimum. We are not one of those schools... (Dorsey didn't qualify at Louisville either).
We do, however, have some weird qualifying issues when it comes to transfer credits (hence the lack of JUCO prospects (well and Dorsey, becuase of his alternative credits)). We also won't admit athletes (or anyone) directly into some programs (business) and therefore lose out on some of those kids to ND...
My bad if I got the Dorsey thing wrong and it was him not qualifying. Also, I'm not sure if Dorsey took an official visit but all recruits must be in line to qualify in order to take an official visit......but the term "qualify" is an NCAA thing and has the same standards at every school. That was my original point. Also, if a prospective student-athlete does not qualify and attends a JUCO he/she must "graduate" from the JUCO in order to be eligible at the Division 1 level. Graduate = getting an associates degree which = two years in JUCO(s) and two years of eligibility. Making the prep school route attractive like Jessica Rabbit.
The University of Michigan doesn't have higher admission standards for its football program than any other Div. 1 school. If NCAA Clearinghouse says they're eligible, UM will take them.
There are a few select schools that do have higher academic standards for its incoming football players (Northwestern is the only one in the Big Ten), but despite its high standards for the typical applicant, Michigan isn't any harder to get in for a football player than any other Big Ten school (unless you're talking about athletic talent, in which case UM is typically near the top of the conference).
and the hits keep coming
Hopefully not bye Dee...
He was going to be a wasted scholly. I wasn't ever sold on him being anything special. If we are going to take a chance on a borderline guy i would prefer we get a front 7 guy out of the midwest. Wiscy, Iowa, Neb seem to be able to continually find 2-3 star front seven guys who become monsters. Not that I want to go in that direction but at this point if I am going to take a flyer on someone I would rather see us grabbing up D players.
Although our QB depth seems great right now with Denard, Tate and Devin we need to keep bringing in QB's to maintain that depth. It's not inconceivable that Tate could transfer which would leave us with 2 QB's. Considering our current depth no top QB would be willing to commit to Michigan this year so someone who needs time to improve at the position like Sousa was perfect for us this year.
Did you watch any of his film? Didn't think so. Don't be a jerk and knock a kid and say he's a waste of a scholie.
Glad to see your stalking me. In your crazed desire to journel my life you missed all the time I spend watching HS football films online. I know maybe you were in a bad spot and couldn't see my computer screen. I have watched him play and believe we already have a gluttony of guys like him. I don't see any thing in his film that suggested his arm is good enough to play qb. I would foresee a move to the slot for him. I am sorry if I am being a jerk if I think we could land a better quality athlete. I didn't knock the kid himself, I am sure that is is a fine person. I am more concerned with getting high level defensive recruits that can come in and contribute quickly, not because they have to but because they are good enough to play on a Big Ten defense right away.
Tom i know Frost has said he likes wide receiver, but don't we want and need him at OLB? How do you think Frost fits into this team on offense or D?
Lets just get him to sign the LOI and let him and the coaches decide where to play. We could use him at either position.
Frost has been told he'll be able to try receiver first. These coaches have stuck to their word in other situations, so I don't know why they wouldn't here.
We're giving him an opportunity to start out at WR, ala Cam Gordon. His highest ceiling's probably at LB, however.
I get the feeling this will be like Cam Gordon, except at a higher talent level. Give him a shot at WR, but the plan is probably to eventually become a LB. If he just explodes as a WR, then hey, we get a great WR out of it. Win-win situation. From quotes I've seen posted about Frost, he seems to understand that. He wants to play WR but understands his best college position may be LB.
Has he been borderline on grades all along? More ammo for the RR haters?
Yes, he's been borderline all along. It's not a sudden thing that happened this school year. In fact, he's supposedly become a much more disciplined kid in the past year or so. But his high school career started off pretty rough.
exactly right, since he committed his grades have been in question... what i would like to know is how bad are his grades if he knows already that he's not going to qualify??? i'm sure he is a good kid and all but this falls squarely on him, he knew what he had to do to get in and didn't do it...
It's really about time for something to go our way - Ugh!! I hope he finds a way back to AA. Something tells me that we haven't heard the last of Sammy Watkins, maybe this is just wishful thinking but Clemson? Really?? wth Come to AA Sammy & D Lucien!!
I don't understand. It's early December. How would we know this already? Doesn't he have another six months to get his grades and/or test scores up?
We really need frost on the defensive side of the ball. The idea of him on offense will really disappoint me. If we are fortunate enough to land Lucien then he can be Conway's replacement. Then, maybe go after another WR, after all they did want Sammy Watkins. A lot can happen in one month. I am sure we land a prospect on signing day that we have not heard of all year. Never fails.
Don't let Frost on defense disappoint you. That kid is an athlete, no doubt about it, and can likely succeed at either spot. That said, he's also a bright kid, and like anyone else, wants to see the field. If he starts out at WR and has success right away, then you won't be disappointed. If he isn't impressing on that side of the ball, then he'll probably willingly move to defense. Also, if other young linebackers are impressing early, then Frost might decide to stick it out on offense, where we lose a lot of talent after 2011.
Also, now that Conway won't be in this class, we have zero WRs committed. You're right that we might get Lucien, and it's possible, but inlikely, that we get another guy like Watkins. That means if we get Frost, and he starts out at WR, he will either be the only WR in this class, or one of two. It's likely that we have at least two LB's in this class other than Frost, maybe three.
Thanks for the explanation, Mgobrotherhood.
That it appears we have trouble getting after recruits who can pass academic muster, and recruits who stay. Nevermind the talent issue.
Did Loyd have this many flameouts? I never paid attention to recruiting before RR's tenure.
Lloyd had some, but not nearly as many in a short period as Rodriguez has had in the past couple recruiting cycles.
Serious question... Is it possible RR has had to gamble on more guys because of the transition to new offense and bare cupboard? Especially in such a short time frame.
I don't think so. Many of his non-qualifiers were from the 2010 class, which was either his 2nd or 3rd class (depending on how you feel about the 2008 class and whether that was Carr's). And 3 of the 4 were defensive guys (Dorsey, Kinard, Rogers), not guys for the offensive system.
Magnus, didn't Tony Drake not qualify or did he have a change of mind.
Drake qualified to play at Colorado State, so he wasn't a non-qualifier. AFAIK, his case was more of a loss of interest on Michigan's part.
Yeah as soon as I posted I recalled several def players so that wouldnt be system related. My bad.
God this blows. He has talent. I wish we our commits weren't always so borderline. At least we have a lot of good receivers. This recruiting class probably won't end highly rated though.
There is many more factors that come into play these days. Working in the school system, you would not believe the homes these kids come from. Yes, even in the suburbs. There is not a lot of stability at home and it effects these kids with school. The divorce rate is at an all time high, so more kids are growing up in single parent homes. That will play a role in a students grades and overall enthusiasm for school. I do not know what the exact case was with Conway, but I do know he is living with his coach. So i can imagine his first few years of high school were not the most memorable. Kudos to his coach for taking him in and making an impact. It is obvious he has been on the right track ever since, just fell a bit short. Hopefully he meets these requirements and goes on to play somewhere in college.
Good luck to Shawn and hopefully he will make it back to Ann Arbor. This kid has been through a lot. No matter what, I hope he makes it somewhere.
This kind of sucks, but 1 door closes and 2 more open.
Get these damn kids a tutor already. How does a highschool not put in every effort especially with a kid like Conway whos faced a bunch of adversity in his life and now finally has a chance to be in a position of a lifetime where he can turn it all around and really make something of himself with a highly respected degree from The University of Michigan, but they can't have tutors and teachers with him working day in and day out to make sure that happens. It absolutely ridiculous and potentially a huge waste if he isn't able to make it back to AA. Best of Luck to you Shawn. Get those grades up and get back to UofM...we believe
I know we have already touched base of our reliability of getting recruits in through the JUCO route but what about our past with prep school. I know that it looks like we will be able to get Kinard through prep school and Jones couldn't quite hack it there but what about in our previous years?
Being familiar with the school that Shawn attends I can tell you that he has every opportunity to get extra help from teachers and counselors that he needs. The school is even implementing a saturday school program to provide extra tutoring. It isn't all dependent on the schools to provide extra help. High school athletes who have an opportunity to receive college scholarships need to be responsible as well.
I 100% agree with you that the athletes need to be responsible as well, and I'm sure the school does offer such programs, but put yourself in the shoes of a top athlete and being raised from a family that never cared about your grades, it makes it difficult to change those habits of starting to care about school work. I mean shoot I grew up with a good family who cared about my school work and I still didn't want to put in the extra effort in school work in high school haha. I was more interested in sports and the girls. I'm just saying sometimes I think these kids almost deserve someone assigned to them, to push them and almost force them to do there work. I mean it can change their lives for the better.
I think we just look at this issue differently. As a taxpayer providing cash to my school district I just don't see where we should be singling out individuals and assigning them tutors just because they are good at football. Why do they deserve it any more than any other kid struggling in school.
If a student athlete can't get motivated enough to study in high school knowing that they have an opportunity for a free college scholarship how successful are they going to be in college with all the time constraints placed on them by attending classes and attending all the football practices/games/conditioning/reviewing tape that's required?
It should be noted, that people who complain about RR and want him fired should not be able to complain about the recruiting class this year.. this includeds David Brandon. Just a suggestion..
I don't see how this is relevant to the Conway situation. The commitment from Conway came BEFORE Brandon left Rodriguez twisting in the wind like this. Whether Rodriguez went 12-0 or 5-7, that doesn't change the fact that the coaches took a commitment from a kid who was academically questionable.
I agree that the coaching situation might negatively affect recruiting, but that and Conway are completely separate issues.
Maybe he/she isn't talking about Conway specifically.
Well, that would be strange, since the OP posted about Conway specifically.
People post very random things. Maybe he/she was posting about the recruiting class as a whole.
I can't find it anywhere but I seem to remember Conway and his HS coach (who he lives with) having a meeting with RR and saying he would absolutely qualify (this was a while ago, like the start of the school year). They more or less promised RR he would have the grades to qualify. Am I making this up or did I really read that on this board somewhere?
Full Disclosure, I have quadruplet 2 year olds and my memory has become very questionable over the last two years, so I may be mistaken here.
I do not remember hearing about a conversation like that, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It's not like Michigan was recruiting really well up until Brandon's announcement that he'd wait until the end of the season to evaluate Rodriguez. Michigan's poor recruiting is due to: 1) their win-loss record, 2) bad defensive coaches who can't effectively decide on a scheme or how best to use players, and 3) Brandon's delay. I'd guess the delay is dwarfed by the first two in recruit's minds and needless to say, it's not independent of the first two either.
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. What the fuck else can happen with this god damn program? For fucks sake. We have a coach who can't recruit because he has no idea what the fuck is going on with his job, an AD who is waiting for a (most important) 37th data point so he can finally make his decision (which is such fucking bullshit) and our fucking recruits either can't fucking get a B or want to play for the football powerhouse that is Wake Forest or go play for Saban. For some reason this is my fucking breaking point. What else can happen that is negative with this program? It just sucks.
What else can happen that is negative with this program?
Don't tempt the fates.
I know. Denards knee for Gods sake.
I just want to log on at 10:30 PM and not find something else that has happened that is fucking awful. Saban practicing at Dr. Phillips really set me off. That is going to lose us Dee and I really thought, with every negative thing that happened this season, at least we could see Denard and Dee in the backfield next year. And what do you know, Saban took that all away from me. He took it from us, man. That was my "serenity now." That was my $50 emergency bill behind my drivers license. Right when I needed it I looked and it was gone because my whicked step brother stole it and spent it on meth and hookers. Lately it really sucks to be a Michigan fan and I never thought I would say that. I mean it is heartache after heartache. It really fucking sucks. I am pouting, but I think we have all earned the right to pout by now.
I'm really sorry about that brah, but I've just been a little depressed lately, ya know? I needed to cut loose for a night. I'll pay it back, damn.
I'd give you a plus one but you already have way too many and I need it more than you. But theoretical +1 to you.
Well, the Orlando Sentinel says that Alabama's out of the running and that Florida is the only competition for Michigan, so calm down and step back from the ledge.
$50 will not get you much these days...your wicked step brother probably had to settle for a ho on meth...
If I could, I would give you a hug right now.
Sounds like time for an MGoBreak.
We can always... uh... find...
JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST ON A CRACKER WHY DOES SHIT KEEP HAPPENING???
It's karma for Mike Hart's "Little Brother" comment.
I had a question about Sammy Watkins and Clemson, but didn't think it warranted its own thread, so I'll stick it here. Do any of the "insiders" know why Watkins picked Clemson considering that Clemson has several other highly regarded WRs that will be entering with him (e.g. Charone Peake)? The only thing I can think of is that the cupboard is so bare at WR for Clemson going into next season that they all see the immediate opportunity to play. Does anyone have any insight on this?
I think you may hear of some "findings" coming out about Clemson in the next few years. They have been pulling massive recruits lately when they haven't been very good for some time... call me a conspiracy theorist, but that shit doesn't just happen.
Possibly, but it's also an awesome campus and a good school with a pretty good fan base that plays in a talent rich environment.
I know a guy who knows Sammy's coach (I know, I know). He told me that Sammy really likes the coaches at Clemson and really felt a connection there. He also said that it was a tough decision and that Michigan is not totally out of the equation. If things were to happen at Clemson (Dabo being dumped, for instance), he might make the switch. No big news, but thought I would share seeing that you brought up Sammy specifically.
He also confirmed that Dallas is a stud and a very good pull for us. I guess that HS is building a great program, so it's nice Michigan has a connection there.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. It's an interesting situation with Dabo. He probably should have never been hired to begin with, got some good results at first which built the hype, but hasn't been able to keep the all rolling. It's amazing how little it's talked about here (i.e. where I live, not this stie) about him being in serious jeopardy of getting fired, though. It's really pretty strange. Thanks again for seeing this and providing the update. It's not something that I wanted to start a new thread about, but it's something that has kind of stuck in the back of my mind. I really appreciate it!
It was purely coincidental. My friend and I were talking football and he brought up Sammy and Dallas because his friend coaches there. I thought it was interesting seeing that all Watkins news has pretty much dried up around here, and rightfully so. But there's a chance...
Son of a God Damn Whore!!!!!!!!!!
This shit storm of bad fricken news doesn't f'ing stop....
Wish Conway the best and hope he can make it to campus next year. As for the loss on the football field, I'm less bothered about WRs than on the defense and, surprisingly, at RB. Conway is a good recruit but there are guys on the team who can fit similar rules.
On the subject of WR recruiting, I just noticed that Curt Evans committed to Wake Forest today.
I'm not sure if he was still in play for us or not. But if so, touché, Wake Forest.
This obviously sucks but I don't feel like this is that big of a deal.
Michigan fans we only have 1 WR commit,i thought that was all that RICH ROD recuirted.
with respect to his post-bowl evaluation with Brandon. In an interview well over a month ago DB ticked off a list of things he'd be discussing with RR at the end of the year, and on the list was the issue of recruit retention, i.e., non-qualifiers. Considering that RR has been dealing with serious roster shortcomings on defense since he got here, it's been puzzling to me that they have extended offers to guys who have been really iffy on qualifying. Doesn't seem very prudent to me, in terms of husbanding scarce resources.
In fairness to Rodriguez, at least the Conway situation was sussed out PRIOR to National Signing Day.
It's really no harm, no foul.
What's the difference between prep school and JUCO? From what I know, JUCO cuts into your eligibility so why wouldn't an academically ineligible kid like Conway or Dorsey go to a prep school as opposed to a JUCO?