this should be a good thread...
Shaun Crawford to visit OSU, per Bucknuts
He basically says that he is 100% sold on Michigan but "with the coaching situation" and the fact that as a family they want to "respect" everyone (meaning OSU), he will likely visit them.
Brandon better make another pro Hoke and Mattison statement...
Another meandering blog post by David Brandon? No thanks.
Eeeevvveryone makes a statement like that even if they're going to fire the coach later that day. It doesn't mean much
Code for 'I want to play on a team that can win its conference'.
Yes, because Ohio State beating Michigan 42-41on a missed 2-point play at the end of the game is clear evidence that Ohio State will always win its conference and Michigan won't.
That is a very short sighted approach to it. OSU went undefeated the last two years (meaning they would have played for it last year but sanctions) and is trending upward. They will likely compete for it every year for the foreseeable future. Michigan on the other had has only been close once in 2011 and is a mess on offense. This is not my opinion this is fact. Makes sense for Crawford.
When this changes recruits won't look elsewhere.
That that play would have had no effect on the participants in the B1G Championship is a pretty strong indictment, however.
Devin completes that pass, and OSU is still the favorite against MSU and Michigan is still in the bottom half of their division, unfortunately.
We haven't won the division in 9 years. Kids graduating high school now wouldn't have remembered the last time we won our own conference.
12 out of the last 14 head to head matchups? Or how about 1 conference champ versus 7 in the last 10 years?
Yeah, you're right, if Michigan had made that 2-point conversion, and had stopped Ohio State from subsequently scoring and actually won the game for the 2nd time in, like, a decade, then Michigan would then be playing in the championship game today.
Oh, yeah, that's right, Ohio State would be playing in it regardless of the outcome of the Michigan game.
Look at the bright side, Michigan's record in the Big Ten Championship game is still absolutely unblemished! It's still 0-0, just like Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota... So yeah, we got that goin' for us.
Remember before the season started when there was so much good recruiting news? He is an Ohio kid who is going to visit Ohio State, not suprising but still dissapointing.
Also correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Crawford grew up a Michigan fan?
are correct and his family loves Hoke (and UM)....
Wasn't he just quoted at being 100% Michigan? Or was that someone else
That was him.
Was quoted saying he was 100%
"100% committed" seems to be misused more than the word "literally."
We need to hear 110% to be convinced, with this being sports and all.
60% of the time they stay committed everytime
But 84% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Like this week
When he committed to us they didn't want him. He's to small for their defense!
something no one in OSU's secondary knows how to do
He is a junior in HS, he lives in Ohio and I'm certain he has to constantly hear shit, from his teammates, friends, relatives and the school. If he takes a visit and comes out of it saying, OSU doesn't compare to Michigan, it will only make Michigan look that much better....
You really think he would come out of it and say, "OSU doesn't compare to Michigan"?
If he meant OSU was worse it may be difficult to still live in Ohio.
On the other hand, If he meant OSU has dominated Michigan, is undefeated and wins championships.......
Just once! All we get now is bad recruiting news, "what if" games lamenting our hearbreaking losses, and OSU vs. MSU BTCG prediction threads......
We usually recruit pretty well then.
I just spit Cheerios! Literally!
This isn't the end guys. If hoke is right for the program we will win games and be exceptional again. If not we will wallow in 8-4/8-5 excuse filled years until we can him and hope springs eternal again; just expand your time line...
to 7-5 teams.
There is plenty of good news. For example, Hoke is being well fed at recruit's homes.
Again, Michigan recruits 130-200 players every single year, and only ~20 can come to Michigan in any given class. By definition, the vast majority of "recruiting news" is going to be negative for Michigan.
I'm pretty optomistic and I try not to get too down, but damn, I wish we'd get out of this funk we've(program on field and in recruiting) been in since November 2nd.
Most positive comment of the thread.
Like most things recruiting, I'll just take a wait and see approach with this. All I care about is getting his LOI on Signing Day. What happens between now and then, I'm not going to worry about.
He is two years away from arriving on campus so he probably is concerned Hoke won't make it that long.
More evidence of the damage fans ranting can cause on the recruiting trail.
yeah, it has nothing to do with being 7-5.
it's all the fans.
Not pushing the panic button, but it doesn't seem like very long ago that this class was ranked #1 and had all the momentum in the world. Now it is #11 on 247 and #7 on ESPN, with players deciding to schedule visits elsewhere.
I will be glad when NSD finally gets here.
I feel like this is becoming a trend. We start strong, OSU starts slow, but at the end of the day OSU takes over and finishies a few spots ahead of UM. On the one hand it's good to get top classes. On the other hand it's hard to ever overcome a rival that is already better than you if you can't out-recruit them. Unfortunately we will always be fighting this uphill battle as there is simply more talent in OH than MI. Hopefully our young talent starts to produce more wins on the field soon so can be the onces flipping top kids late. Maybe next year it can be UM flipping Webb instead of OSU flipping Crawford. Well, that's my hope anyways.
In fact it's marginal. I'm not worried about a talent differential with how UM's recruiting is going. I am, however, worried about a coaching discrepancy.
Given relative talent and experience, I sure thought Urban got his ass resoundingly outcoached a week ago.
How? He's not the defensive playcaller and his offense put up 42 points. He's the offensive mind behind it.
Are you saying there isn't a big difference between #3 and #6 (OSU and UM according to ESPN last year) or there isn't a big difference between #1 and #10? Because for example UM only had one guy ranked over 84 (Green) whereas Bama had 10 (and OSU had 8). I think that's a pretty big difference. Derrick Green was our highest rated recruit by far and that was a big deal for UM to finally land a guy like that, whereas OSU has 8 of them and Bama has 10.
While I agree with you on coaching the offense (maybe head coaching too, but I'm reserving judgement on that for now), I'm not certain OSU holds any coaching prowess edge on the defensive side of the ball.
This class was never destined to be #1 with the amount of scholarships we have for this class.
I hate to beat a dead horse here.... But look at what Dantonio has done in East Lansing with less talent.
Here...Will Campbell 5 star. Jake Ryan 3 star. Cissoko....Stribling.
Now I don't want to lose recruiting battles to our arch rivals...but I think our focus needs to be more on technique and development. Our guys will find talent.
In a couple years, with depth everywhere, quality everywhere...if we can't do it...THEN I will be worried.
Hoke has actually done a slightly better job. Narduzzi's defenses were pretty average his first three seasons. It wasn't until year four that they started their ascent to dominance.
I'm banking on that^^^^^
If that's the case we should expect to see a Big Ten Championship next year, or at least 11 wins, right? Is that what you're expecting in 2014?
The situations are not the same and it's pointless to compare them.
Both coaches took over programs that came off disasterous ends to the previous regimes, both coaches came from middling schools, and both coaches won national titles as assistants at previous stops.
Are they exactly alike? No. No situation is. But there is enough to suggest that patience is a good idea.
I am not saying that UM WILL win 11 games next year. Not at all. My comparison is mainly to give hope that things will turn around.
Winning as a DC is different than a DL coach.
That DL was arguably the greatest UM ever fielded. Hammerstein and Messner would probably disagree, but that DL was the key to the entire defense.
Hoke also won at his two previous stops as a coach. So he has had success as both an assistant and as a HC.
Really? Like what?
How many national titles or - hell - conference championships does he have? The whole "Hoke was a winner before UM" is really old, especially for a coach that barely cracked .500 prior to UM.
The "barely cracked .500" is equally old. He inherited horrible programs with no real football cache. Assuming he rebuilt Ball St. ethically and without egregious violations, then how hard is it to see that he had quite a task on his hands? Lots of growing pains for a first time HC at an historically downtrodden program.
Next was SDSU, which was the proverbial dumpster fire. In his 2nd year they went 9-4, and kept each loss very close. Within a couple years, they sent at least three guys to the NFL. Not bad for a school that isn't any kind of NFL factory.
The trouble is he inherited that overwhelming (for the MVC) offensive talent. And early indicators are not good at Michigan regarding offensive player development.
TCU had five players drafted that year to SDSU's two. That was typical for a top MWC team in that period--the year before, Utah had five drafted including two 2nds; the year after, Boise had six. Seven players were taken in the first two round during those years; SDSU had none of them.
They had talent close to the best teams in their league but I don't think you could call it overwhelming.
Players from that 2010 team that ended up drafted:
Vincent Brown - WR - 2011 3rd Rd
DeMarco Sampson - WR - 2011 7th Rd
Ronnie Hillman - RB - 2012 3rd Rd
Miles Burris - LB - 2012 4th Rd
Ryan Lindley - QB 2012 - 6th Rd
Jerome Long - DT - 2012 7th Rd
Gavin Escobar - TE - 2013 2nd Rd
Leon McFadden - CB - 2013 3rd Rd
TCU had 8 guys drafted that was on that roster and they went 13-0. The Utah team that you are referencing went 12-0. SDSU had talent on offense, at least, to rival those teams that completely overwhelmed their opponents. They went 5-3 in conference and were the third highest-scoring team.
"He inherited horrible programs with no real football cache. Assuming he rebuilt Ball St. ethically and without egregious violations, then how hard is it to see that he had quite a task on his hands? Lots of growing pains for a first time HC at an historically downtrodden program."
I just don't get where this narrative comes from that Hoke inherited a "downtrodden" Ball St. and made it into something great comes from. It just isn't supported by facts at all.
Ball St. under Bill Lynch (Hoke predecessor): 37-53, 41.1%
Ball St. under Brady Hoke: 30-39, 43.4%
Ball St. in 3 years prior to Brady Hoke:
Ball St. under Brady Hoke:
That doesn't look like a "difficult rebuild". That looks like a 5 year run of pretty much exactly what came before under the previous coach, and then one outlier.
The notion that Brady Hoke took over a BSU program that was a dumpster fire and then built it up into a championship program glosses over a boatload of uncomfortable facts.
In my own mind, the emphasis was on "historically", as in, has Ball St. ever really been a powerful program?
Also, notice I mentioned "growing pains". I never said Hoke made them a title contender overnight. It was his first HC gig, and it took him some time to get to a point at which they were competing for the MAC title and had an outside shot at a BCS bowl. But he did it. Then, perhaps he found a system or method, which allowed the quick SDSU turnaround.
Sure, his UM record has gone down each year, and that's cause for concern; but there is also reason for optimism.
"In my own mind, the emphasis was on "historically", as in, has Ball St. ever really been a powerful program?"
Ball State all time winning percentge: 52.4%
Brady Hoke at Ball State: 43.4%
Of course, more than half of that all-time record was compiled in juco and small-college ranks. Not quite sure why it's relevant.
I believe Woodson was the key to the entire defense, and suggesting otherwise is simply crazy talk.
Ugh...MSU is my benchmark for a successful turnaround. I hate life.
In theory...our team is a year older. Our only major losses will be at left/right tackle on the oline. Our D WILL BE BETTER. If we have any run game whatsoever, I would say we compete next year. Not for the national championship. The conference championship. With that, everything else is possible.
We were in some dogfights this year. We won a couple...we lost a couple. I think four of the games we lost by a TOTAL of 8-10 points. Just as ALL OF MY MSU FRIENDS REMINDEDED
ME over and over again (think they lost 5 games by a total of 7 points last year?) Translation...even tho we played horrible we still ALMOST won 10 games.
Keep the faith.
MSU, OSU, PSU, NW...none of these teams will be great next year which is good for us. ND will be tough on the road. PSU we finally get at home. OSU will be tough, but always is. MSU loses a lot on defense. NW loses Colter. I see us as a 9-3 team next year. With the conference as weak as I expect, we could contend for a conference championship, but we still won't be a great team. I have faith, but I think we're more than a year away.
Next year if we stay healthy we should take a step forward and continue to improve. But, we still have questions marks. We will still be a bend but don't break style of defense because we simply don't have enough talent. I really think we need our talent to get older before we become what we want. Are guys like Gordon, Taylor, Clark, Morgan, Beyer servicable...sure. But we need the younger more talented (if you go by recruiting rankings) guys like Wilson, Charlton, Ross, Wormley, Thomas, Pipkins, etc. to become Jrs and Srs before we are really gonna be good on defense. I think the same goes for our offensive line guys like Kalis, Bosch, Kugler, Dawson, etc. before we'll have a good running game.
I would estimate that 687 of your current 4115 points have resulted from you bringing up Dantonio's first three seasons.
He's going to come here. He wouldn't be telling the nation he wants to wear #23 at Michigan because if you put the most recent Wolverine Heisman winner's numbers together (21 & 2), you get 23.
And if he doesn't, panic and run around screaming.
Gareon Conley grew up a buckeye fan and wanted an OSU all along
He will commit to us. Too big of a fan to flip to Ohio. Growing up a huge Michigan fan, he knows what the rivalry is and means. I think he is just playing it out, so he can make it seem like he is considering Ohio, but choses Michigan over them. Saw him play too a couple weeks ago and he is the real deal!
If you self-flagellate enough, it actually starts to feel good. Just make sure you don't let up.
Also, peppers helped lead his team to a second straight state championship! Our secondary is going to dominate in a few years!!
didn't Hoke in the past not allow this? If he was taking visits than his spot is no longer secure?
It's "allowed" but your spot could be filled.
Let's see if this actually comes to happen.
Visiting OSU will only prove how much awesomer, betterer, and coolerer we are than them.
Again, anybody surprised? Look at UM right now...
He will b in town next weekend. Mr Peppers will let him know that this is where he needs to b. H e grew up a fan Conley didn't.... GO BLUE!!!!!
Dang, his last few tweets have seemed fairly pro-Michigan so this is a bit of a surprise.
I am just so sick of this "coaching situation" rumor shit. Alright, somebody must be actively spreading the rumor, but the UM commits really believe these BS? After J Peppers, now Crawford? I mean, REALLY?!
That's it. I am done caring about recruiting at all. I am just going to wait for signing day and check the class out. How I miss the days of hearing Keith Jackson call the first televised game and informing the audience to keep an eye for a particular freshman that's a real burner.
It seems to me other schools are using negative recruit tactics--hoke's job secrurity, to lure our commits for official visit. There have been 2 commits saying this, it's not coincident.
Is it just a coincidence that Crawford cites this rumor at the same time as a visit to OSU? The same OSU staff that openly uses negative tactics like a poster to compare majors vs UM to sell a message of "UM doesn't provide a great education"? The same staff that targeted PSU recruits during its chaos? The same coach who scolded the B1G coaches for poor recruiting and stated he wanted his coaches to do a better job flipping recruits committed to other B1G schools?
I would be shocked if OSU is perpetuating the rumor to gain an advantage and flip a recruit. /s
Yes, but it doesn't help when fans on UM boards keep bringing into question Hoke's job security. I am pretty sure recruits read these sites and wouldn't doubt that it influences how they feel about the coaching situation.
But the trolls - I don't know what to do about that. There are OSU and MSU people posing as UM fans, fake reporters, and just rivals being assholes. If they keep spreading rumors then at the very least they remain out there.
These comments you would think the sky was falling! Get a grip people. ND has been medicare for years and still pulls great talent. Why can't we do that? Wait! We are doing that. Calm down y'all.
because Notre dame fans are unhealthy.
Hoke & Co have a long offseason ahead of them in the recruiting game. I remember a comment TomVH had before the season started stating that UM will need to have a good performance on the field to keep the strong recruiting momentum. 7-5 on the field will make it a bit more challenging when recruiting against 11 & 12 win teams.
We really need to turn it around on the field next year or this could become the norm with other 2015 kids.
We have a solid class this year and I'm not going to worry about 2015 until the 2014 season is over.
This year's poor performance would lead to this. We needed to win the Ohio game...not play close. Kids want to win and they will take short cuts to get there...like going to an established conference winner. We need to look in the mirror and tighten up. This season was awful.
And if they can play early and often, they can be made to believe they're the reason the winning will come.
To be fair, we contribute to these rumor of coaching staff leaving/being on the hot seat. We have a thread five down from this talking about coaching staff leaving.
If he wants to visit another school, let him. This is one of the biggest decisions of any recruits life. Imagine picking a college to go to with 500,000 people telling you which way to go. So let's just calm down for a few minutes.
I wish I could open a thread and read pure positivity, but that's unrealistic to ask... So I would gladly take less negativity.
There is no we on this board. See front page.
but it is possible that kids who have given verbals to a school can use supposed rumors of coaching instability to justify what they already want to do, which is reconsider their commitment because of the lack of on-field success. In fact, it would be unusual if literally none of those kids who've verbaled to Michigan had some second thoughts after the way the season went. That's human nature.
If Hoke & Co. are able to maintain all of the verbal commitments they've gotten for 2014 and beyond, that will be a remarkable achievement. I'll be surprised if there isn't at least one notable 2014 decommit.
I think poor play is the real issue, not coaching rumors. Otherwise, weird how a thousand Saban rumors has no effect on Bama commits.
given poor play.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Coaching rumors = "Holy crap, I may have totally misjudged the direction of this team!"
Its kinda scary, too, as the conference schedule looks much the same with the OSU and MSU road games, and the ND flipping back to South Bend. Big-time development is necessary to avoid another 8-4, 7-5 season.
I could be mistaken, but didn't Ohio State offer him during the latter half of Iowa week (well, Iowa week for us), so although he might visit, I don't know if there is much cause for worry right now. That being said, this thread is so far calmer than I thought it would be when I first opened it, so there is that.
Just give it until noon today after people wake up with nasty hangovers. The bile will start flowing freely then.
An Ohio kid getting his head turned by the Buckeyes in a year in which Ohio is going to the nat'l championship and Michigan looked like complete hot garbage? I am shocked! Shocked! That there is gambling in this establishment.
I think we were all hoping this wouldn't happen, but it simply isn't a surprise especially given Meyers salt the earth and take no prisoners recruiting style.
High school sophomore wants to visit the best football school in his home state. Whatevs.
Be blue, cripe signing day for him is a long ways away. Performance on the field is the biggest influence. Michigan will get 9-10 wins next year and that will help.
We have tougher schedule and likely a worse offense. 8 wins max and more likely 7.
The problem is symantics. I think we all realize, but do not want to admit, when a kid says "I commit to", there is no contract behind it. The signed LOI is the binding contract; therefore, when a kid says, "I commit to" what is really meant is "I plan to commit to". When you read into this Crawford's plan hasn't changed; our plan of this kid not taking visits anywhere else has changed. Could his plans change? Sure, but why get worked up with it if he is communicating his plans with our coaching staff?
Also, Michigan's rules aren't no visits, it is no visits without talking to the coaches first. Seems like that rule is selectively misunderstood by the media and used against our coaching staff to stir up more interest in recruiting. Whatever.
I'm pretty sure "symantics" isn't the problem.
Well hey! That sounds good.
Who cares? His tweet is in Michigans favor so it is the one I choose to believe.
Could mean 100% visiting Ohio!
Just kidding hopefully
Say it ain't so, Shaun!
Urban Meyer or Mark Dantonio?
Has to be Bret Bielema. After all he was able to get Froholdt after a scintillating season.
Coaching rumors or not....putting crap on the field is the real issue. It's been 3 yrs and the records says this program has gotten worse every single year.
I'm sorry, this isn't hoops where instant PT is a huge recruiting advantage. In football kids want to win championships and at this point this program isn't remotely close to that level.
It is going to take a HUGE coaching job next year to change minds and at least on the offensive side I don't think they have anyone who can manage it.
I'm sick of stumbling upon when I read here.
Go be negatively passionate about something else.
You say that as though it's a proven fact.
It's entirely possible that next year could be 6-6, since you admitted right off the bat that we'll have up to 4 losses, and the record of the current staff should not give anyone complete confidence that we won't gargle away two more games that should be wins on paper, the way we did this season.
The close OSU game, coupled with a potential victory at the bowl game could end all this
Everyone who follows Michigan football knows there is literally zero chance that Hoke is fired after this season, and it would probably take an unfathomable tire fire for him to be fired after next. With Crawford's quote, along with what Peppers has been saying, it sounds like someone to the south has been spreading disinformation about the job security at Michigan.
I told my wife that jokes and she laughed her ass off too!
and others, we only have ourselves to blame because we make critical forum posts.