That looks like very good news.
I saw that tweet and immediately smiled. The kid is doing a great job ! Think about him recruiting for us for the next 5 years and beyond. Unbelievable resource and treasure :-)
half as good of a QB as he is a recruiter - look out for a NC in 2015.
Will a NC in 2015 really be a surprise after we pick a couple up in the next two years? I don't think we will be on the lookout - we will be expecting Shane to carry on the traditions of teams 133 and 134, led by Denard and Devin.
Michigan fans once expected national championships on an annual basis, let alone after a year in which we lost only two games that were both within reach in the final minutes.
A little advice on the expectations for our position on the team. We are fans. Our team is the winningest team in the universe. We are expected to demand championships from each new edition. We are then expected to support them through every bitter loss, and not give up until the B1G championship is in hand. Then, we move on to the same expectation the next year.
In 1996, Michigan went 8-4. Immediately after losing to Bama in the Outback Bowl, I was wholely focused on 1997, and expected Michigan to win a Big Ten Championship and compete for a national championship. In 1997, Michigan fielded one of the greatest defenses we've ever witnessed, and won the Big Ten and a national championship. (Oh, and a Heisman trophy!)
In 2005, Michigan went 7-5. Immediately after losing to Nebraska in the Alamo Bowl, I was wholely focused on 2006, and expected Michigan to win a Big Ten Championship and compete for a national championship. In 2006, Michigan fielded one of the greatest all-time defenses, even in comparison to the amaizing defense of 1997. Unfortunately, the team allowed our final victories to slip from grasp, and the team would finish with neither the Big Ten Championship nor a shot at the national championship.
Now, in 2011, Michigan went 11-2. We beat Va Tech in the Sugar Bowl. Going into 2012, I am expecting a B1G Championship and a shot at the national championship. If you are a Michigan fan, then you should be expecting the same. Such is the expectation for our position on the team. Do not let down the team.
much for the "advice". Not trying to make enemies here, but you come off like a real prick in this post. I know this will get flagged as flamebait/trolling, but whatever - give me a break. Don't tell me how I should "not let down the team" after I spent thousands in tuition and thousands on tickets with your BS preaching. I'm always optimisitic, but a NC next year? You really are drinking the kool-aid man.
Now for a dose of reality for you - Denard is not a NC caliber QB. What's the common theme between almost every NC team? A great QB. I love Denard - it's been great watching him the last few years - but his passing and decision making has been suspect from day one. Any time he goes against a top defense, his numbers are not good. Here's a better question - what position will Denard play in the NFL? Give you a hint - it's not at QB. Compound that with the losses of Martin, RVB, Hemingway - it's not going to happen, sorry to burst your bubble and "let down the team"
If it does, will I be estatic? Of course - is it going to happen? No. So please get off your soapbox - go preach to someone else.
he'd like your pansy ass to use a different screen name.
Edit: I'm not trying to make enemies, either.
adding something to the debate, lb.
For some reason, there are people who think it's cool to point out why their team won't win a national championship, even when they're really close. Statistically speaking you're probably right, but based on this season and who we return, we have a great shot at a national championship run.
First of all, everyone loses starting players, usually good ones. Although we lose some solid players, we return far more contributors than we lose.
Don't tell me Denard can't win a national championship. Is AJ McCarron a great QB? Was that other guy who won the national title with Alabama a few years ago who is now so obscure I can't remember his name? QBs are a huge part of football, but it's still only one position on one side of the ball. And not only that - but Denard is pretty damn good! He won't be a pro QB because of his size and style of play, but Eric Crouch won the Heisman and pro teams didn't want to touch him at QB. It's not like we're anticipating a NC with Sheridan at QB, this is Denard Robinson. Ask Notre Dame if he's not a great college quarterback.
think it's "cool" at all to point out why we're not going to win a NC. Where did you draw that conclusion? I said it because I think it's true. Actually, I didn't even say that in my original post. I was basically called out by an internet tough guy that I "was letting the team" down - because I alluded to the fact that I think we'll have a good chance at a NC in 2015. You guys want to crown him, then crown his ass - sorry if I don't think the team will have the talent to do it next year. Guess I'm letting the team down and I'm a bad fan - so be it.
Dude, Chuckie, my bad for making you feel like I was calling you out specifically. Certainly wasn't the intention.
I was simply trying to get people pumped up for next year, and laying out my vision of the position standards for a Michigan fan (which should only be comedic in value... no one on this blog regulates the constitution of a "true" fan.)
I did enjoy the part about being an 'internet tough guy.' I will try to tone down my sinister flexing.
I interpreted it all wrong. Just the way I read it through the first time was calling me out in some way and was just amazed someone would draw that inference from a postive post about a NC in 2015. Ha.
Made for an interesting discussion though, so... wth....
Maybe your new avatar could be a pic of Charles Bronson? (He was a real tough guy... I've seen a few of the Death Wish movies - badass). :P
Just wanted to preface this by saying I agree with you in the "disagreement" between you and NOLA. That said, as you read/contribute more I think you'll find that only a small percentage of the posters here are actually dickish, and those that are make it pretty obvious.
The other two guys replying to your post (I think it was just him and WolvinLA2) definitely aren't those people, so no worries. That's just my unsolicited two-cents, though.
thanks for the info - I'm relatively new here (been following the board for about 5-6 months) but just created an account recently. Probably should have asked for a clarification from NOLA before I "went off the handle"...
Honestly, I probably would have done the same thing in your situation. I just thought it might help to have some context, especially since NOLA isn't a guy that posts 24/7 (and so probably isn't someone you've formed an opinion on yet).
Glad to see you took the plunge and signed up, though; always good to have new blood that can make a point and contribute.
I appreciate the insight. I will have to make sure my typing tone is not quite so violent the next time... may my signature always remind me of my innate dispositions.
Oh, and welcome to the board Chuckie. It certainly was a lively discussion. A little fire never stifles passion!
You're one of the boards "guys for that", so definitely not a problem. The way I see it, out of you me and WolvinLA2 we have:
NOLA: The academics guy
WolvinLA2: The NFL scouting guy (not to downplay the rest, but we're going for unique)
justingoblue: The guy with way too much time to compile random numbers
Other random users (Chuckie, this might be a useful, partial guide):
Chunkums: The .gif/photoshop guy
Magnus: The recruit scouting guy
jhackney: The party like Raoul Duke guy
Boyz in da Pahokee: The video guy
jamiemac: The sports line guy
BlueDragon: The kitten pictures guy
TrippWelbornIdentity: The ridiculous[ly funny] guy
Love it... working on it.
did you even watch the NC game this year? those two QBs would likely be in the bottom half of the big 10 this year. and yes, denard is easily better than both of them. he, hopefully, will be better still this year, if borges calls plays to his strengths.
Let's take a look at some stats:
Player A: 148/250 (59.2%) 1,849 yards 7.4 YPA 12TD 11INT/ 167 attempts 1,079 yards 14TD 6.5YPC
Player B: 142/258 (55.0%) 2,173 yards 8.4 YPA 20TD 15INT/ 221 attempts 1,176 yards 16TD 5.3YPC
Player A is Vince Young circa 2004, Player B is Denard Robinson circa 2011. They each won eleven games (although M played 13, Texas played 12) and a BCS game during these seasons. I'm not about to sit here and say that Denard will improve more than Young did, or that our team is as talented as 2005 Texas, but Denard certainly could lead a team to a MNC if his improvement continues and the defense holds up after losing its core.
If Denard can play like he did in the OSU and Neb game and the D comes out that much better than expected, I think it' possible. My point is though, it's not likely.
V Young the next year (when they won the NC) had 3000 yards through the air and 1000 on the ground. I would love Denard to have 3000 through the air, but I'm just not sure if he has the weapons around him to do it or the decision making capability. Even a lot of his throws this year were "answered prayers" - see ND, OSU, VT games - underthrowing into double coverage - but completing the pass nonetheless. But then, I see him make throws like the back of the endzone throw in the OSU game and I'm blown away. Just hoping to see more consistency from him next year.
Although entirely possible for Denard to go 3000/1000, he likely won't and won't be asked to. We'll likely have a better run game in 2012 than Texas had in 2005 (Cedric Benson was a senior in 2004, and they didn't have a go-to guy in 2005, even though first year starter Jamaal Charles did have over 800 yards).
As far as targets go, VY didn't have any targets in 2005 worth writing home about, Despite throwing for over 3000 yards, his leading receiver only had 750 of those, which is how I would expect us to do it. Roundtree, Gallon, Dileo, Moore/Other TEs, and younger guys who step up will split the yardage more evenly than in past years.
And like Texas, our defense will be as good as our offense. We won't have a 2011 LSU/Alabama defense, but it will still be very good. Very good offense plus very good defense equals NC contender.
But, in regards to a "dose of reality":
Were you one of the many who called for "reality" to range from 7-5 to 8-4 in 2011?
Me? I was one of the village idiots calling for 10 wins minimum, with anything less than a B1G Championship a failure (as stated by Hoke, himself.) Of course, part of that fanatical prognostication was due to the return of Denard Robinson... America's most electric QB. Of course, I can see that even the results of a great season will not be enough to sway you from the belief that he is not better than mediocre.
My perception is that there is no such thing as "reality" in college sports, just a bunch of young men playing with passion to win a championship or two. And my other perception is that there are fans of all sorts, including those who are able to temper their optimism.
I was. Although I was on the high side of that at 8-4. But in following this board, I don't think many people here expected the D to be nearly as good as it was. (which, actually - now that I think about it, helps your argument significantly).
I remember reading one of the first main posts on here when I started on this site was that no team (statisically) moved up from 115th ranking in defense - to anything higher than 50th or so in the subsequent year even with a coaching and scheme change. So my thought process followed that defense wins championships and if we had a defense (thought by most to only improve to "marginal" at best - we'd end up 8-4 ish).
Well, to be fair - I think Denard is a good QB - I just question his ability to throw the ball. And just based on what I've seen the last couple of years, if he doesn't improve a lot in the air - I'm worried coaches will just pull out the Sugar Bowl tape and just start stacking the box every down.
He's the most athetic QB in the country - no doubt. But - so many times this year he just threw up jump balls and we got lucky on most of those - and some were at pivotal moments of the game - and they went our way, and that was awesome - just not sure if that can be maintained...
But you're right overall though - "thats why they play the game" - if you knew who was going to win everytime, it would be kind of pointless to watch - and certainly much less exciting.
i find it amazing that a guy can complete 60% of his passes w/o being able to throw the ball, especially when a lot of those passes are heaves/jump balls.
I won't say Alabama's QB is that great. He was OK in the chamionship game and all the past season.
I'd take Denard over AJ McCarron, or whatever his stupid name is.
At the risk of "letting down the team" and being labelled not a Michigan fan, I will say this: I don't expect a NC next year. In fact, an NC is highly unlikely. Feel free to criticize my negativity and my fandom.
BTW, no NC is ok with me. I'll still be proud to have come from the school, and will live and die with every game as usual.
How did your "expecting Big Ten championship and a shot at the NC" philiosophy work for you in 1996 and 2005? Were you lecturing your fellow fans in the pre-season to those years as well?
sure why he's trying to call people out for not saying we're gonna win a NC each year. Guess I throw myself into that boat as well. Would I love for them to win it every single year? Hell yes I would. Losing Molk is huge too - gotta find someone else to put in center to solidify that o-line.
Don't think fans are any less "fans" if they are based in reality. Now, to say it's entirely impossible - especially when you went 11-2 is a little silly. But based on the schedule (which is brutal, IMO) with all those tough games on the road, it will have to be a special season for us to pull that off. LA is right, teams lose people each year - so it's not like every other team is going to be stacked. But, it's hard enough when you're a great team to win the NC - I think UM next will be a good team and has a very small chance. But, I'd agree there's not a high probability and I'm not sure why NOLA thinks he needs to give people are hard time that don't believe this either and question their loyalty to the program that anything less is letting down the team...
Maybe it's the difference between the younger and the older generations. I begin every year expecting to win every game with the hopes of a national championship. It doesn't mean I bet my life savings on it, but I always feel we have a legitimate shot.
It seems like a lot of the younger fans take the outlook of "if I don't expect great things then I won't be upset when we go 9-3" or something like that. To which I respond - then why be a sports fan? Being a sports fan is not supposed to be rational. That's what the rest of your life is for. If I predict a national championship and it doesn't happen, no one's going to hold me to it. There will be no ramifications if my predictions are overly optimistic. But every off-season I'm going to convince myself why the next year is our year and how we'll make a run to win it all.
So guess what - that's fine if you don't think we're that good. You might as well be a Missouri fan then. But as a Michigan fan, I think every time we step on the field we're a national championship team.
I wouldn't say a generational thing. In my experience it's been the opposite. The "old" guys are usually the cynics and the "kids" have the pie in the sky hopes.
You seem to almost take personal offense to the fact that I don't think we're "that good" and I might as well be a "missouri fan". I feel this was an ignorant comment - for a few reasons...
I always HOPE that we'll win the NC. Do I think Denard can do it? I don't. Do I WANT him to, YES! But, please don't confuse that with my loyalty. I think that's where people are getting confused. I promise you, if we watched a game together I would match, if not have more intensity than you. I scream and yell if I'm at the game, or watching it on TV. I wear my maize and blue as a faithful alum anywhere I go - and will continue to do so until the day I die. Just because I don't think we'll win it all next year, does not equate me to being a "missouri fan" - and I do take offense to that.
Then by your rationale, some random guy who wears U of M gear - and proclaims in the diag every weekend that "We'll win the NC! We'll win the NC! because we're Michigan!" is a "better fan than I". Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But, if that's how you see a true fan, then so be it. Can't make you think otherwise - but please don't question my loyalty when you know nothing about me or my history with U of M.
You might be confusing who said what, but at no point did I ever say anything about anyone being a good fan, or better fan, or anything like that. I didn't say you were a bad fan in any sort of way. And I never equated you to a Missouri fan, but the difference between a fan of Michigan and a fan of a school like Missouri is the annual expectations, and it's what makes us great.
I wasn't making a judgment, I was simply making an observation. I never once mentioned intensity or loyalty as you did. It just seems that 15 years ago there were far fewer people saying "Yeah, we probably don't have what it takes this year."
"So guess what - that's fine if you don't think we're that good. You might as well be a Missouri fan then."
Since NOLA called out everyone who didn't think we're going to win the NC, and assuming you read his posting, saying I "might as well be a Missouri fan then" - seemed to be a jab at my fandom.
I say we all bury the hatchet here, go out to the Brown Jug tonight and drink some beers and see if we can't get replays of the 1998 Rose Bowl, 2008 Outback Bowl and the 2012 Sugar Bowl going on the tvs. Speaking of the Brown Jug - dammit miss being 21 and getting loopy over there on Thursday - Saturday nights.
I understand, I meant no disrespect. I meant to imply there's a difference between being a Michigan fan and a fan of a school that has no reason to expect a national championship season.
The way I see it, being a Michigan fan and having reasonable expectations is like driving a Porsche and driving at a reasonable speed. It doesn't make you any less of a Porsche owner, but damn it's a lot less fun.
No team actually wins the title every year, but there are a handful of programs that can make a legit run every year. That's us, and I expect nothing less.
with the tone of the thread, I thought that's what you were implying.
I don't disagree with you on that. Expectations are high every year - I think when we start to "expect" 7-5 or 8-4 - we'll get it. So I see what you're saying and agree with you. I think we have a chance each year - based on the kids we have in there, I think that chance fluctuates year to year, but I wouldn't disagree with your basic argument.
No harm no foul there. I look forward to more conversations in the future.
Only on MGoBlog:
Where posters can have an internet argument, refrain from calling each other some homosexual synonym, listen to each other's points, and end it civilly.
The Michigan Difference.
Well Stated. I hope you are driving your Porsche to Pasadena this year.
If you don't have a Porsche, no worries. There is no better feeling than next year's B1G Championship will bring to you. Save money on the Porsche, buy some M gear!
No Porsche, yet. But here in LA, the traffic's never good enough to drive over the speed limit, no matter what kind of car you have.
"...the difference between a fan of Michigan and a fan of a school like Missouri is the annual expectations..."
For you, perhaps. For me, the difference is that I grew up in A2, attended the University of Michigan, have great memories fof the school, my classes, sports, my frternity brothers, etc. If the team's expectations are less than to win a NC, I can live with that. In fact, if Missouri was expected to win the next five national chanpionships and Michigan expected to win none, I would be as true-Blue as ever. I wouldn't become a Missouri fan because I am not the type of fan who bases my loyalty on expectations. I base it on the fact that I am emotionally tied to Michigan and that I expect it to be a progam with great class that develops Michigan Men, win or lose.
Nope, two reasons:
#1 - Blogging just wasn't a big thing back then. I guess lack of easy communications to the masses would have stifled my attempts at strong-arming. Of course that would be assuming I needed to, however....
#2 - I didn't need to. Those were part of the glorious 129 years that Michigan fans behaved like fans (where fan = fanatic... erego, not rational) and rooted for what in their heart of hearts was the best team on the planet.
I will not say that 1996 and 2005 were my favorite years, as far as championships go. However, after supporting my team through to the bitter end, as is expected of our position, I then moved on to what was sure to be a championship year. The next year.
Next year will always be our next championship. I am excited for the day when Michigan fans of the 2007-10 variety stop trying to be "rational" and return to the glory days of fandom. For example: expecting a team that just went 11-2 to come back hungrier than the year before and get it done.
This is where our players' minds are at, and given that we are supposed to be supporting their every hour of blood, sweat and tears left in the training room, in the classroom, and on the gameday field, it would be much better for us to be shouting "Go Blue!" like ravinous wolverines rather than "but, I just checked my spreadsheet, and the probabilities just do not seem to be in our favor" like some dude with an expensive education.
I can tell you this is where the players' minds are at, because I am a former athlete. There is no athlete in the world who looks for the smartest looking fan in the stands, from whom to gather rational, mathematical support. Athletes want unadulterated commitment to a common goal. We expect it from them, they expect it from us. How else can you justify celebrating with them? I suppose there are fans who consider themselves an extension of the team, and there are fans who enjoy participating in the atmosphere. I cast no judgement upon either variety. But...
Rose Bowl or bust, baby!!!
I have a house I want to sell you...
... wait a minute... what is that screen name?
Damn me and my eternal optimism! Little did I realize that a Michigan fan would be willing to screw over a fellow Michigan fan. Now I am destined to rot away in Ohio...
(By the way, I am not actually trying to say anyone screwed over anyone else, nor that such would have any ramifications on "true" fandom...etc. etc.)
Ohio is going to win the national championship every year until Urban Meyer retires
..I'm going to throw my hat into this discussion.
"Expecting" a NC run next year is setting yourself up for a letdown, IMO.
Without going into much detail, the loss of Team 132, in particular, Junior Hemingway is much bigger than what we may imagine. Couple that with one heck of a schedule and our NC picture gets pretty dull.
However, a B1G championship? That's a possibilty, but I don't know if I'd take it much further than that.
Like I said, this is all my opinion and the returners in the secondary, Denard, Fitz, and Roundtree (to name a few) could make me look like a fool.
Setting yourself up for a letdown? This is the most ridiculous argument ever. If I think we'll win the Rose Bowl, and you don't (for example) are you going to be any less upset if/when we lose games than I am? Does this really change anything?
I've never heard any Michigan fan say "I figured we go 10-2, so I'm really not upset after that Iowa loss. You should have altered your preseason expectations because you'd be just fine with this right now."
Look we get it, you EXPECT a NC every year (and anyone who doesn't should be a Missouri fan). Simply put, thats unrealistic. A quick look at the Horror is great reason why you don't EXPECT anything.
Why are those expectations bad? I understand why I shouldn't have unrealistic expectations for my 401(k) growth, for my monthly pay checks or for my wife's cooking, but why not have unrealistic expectations come football season?
Maybe I'm in the minority on this so I'll stop now, but out of the 12 months of the year, most of them are the offseason. How much better are those months building up for a 14-0 season than thinking about 9-3 with a bowl loss? One might be more realistic than the other, but I don't follow sports for rationality, I follow them for excitement, and I know which one is more exciting.
A little college life comparison. There are always those people who say, "oh shit oh shit oh shit I'm gonna bomb this test," as well as those who say, "I am about to destroy this test and all the hot chicks in class will want to drop their tests to follow me home because I'm such a genius." Both people will probably get the same grade on the test and come back and do the same thing before the next exam. Some people prefer not to get bitten in the ass. Some people prefer to send positive vibes into the universe.
i think you are confusing HOPE with EXPECTATIONS. we have 1 title in the last 50 years. that said, i hope your expectations are accurate.