Serious Question - Why Are People Angry With Season Ticket Holders Not Renewing?
I have noticed something occuring recently on the board that I'm really hoping we can have a civil and respectful discourse on because I don't understand it and would honestly like to understand why it's happening. Why are people seemingly angry with alumni & others making the decision to not renew their season tickets?
To begin with I think there are a lot of good reasons to not renew your tickets AND I think there'sa lot of good reasons to renew your tickets. I could easily make an arguement for both and given that I've held mine since 1987 you can see that for 26 years I supported the "renew" side of the debate. But what I do not understand, and would like some board insight on, is why are people angry at those now deciding to not renew?
Look at every thread where the subject is broached. You will read comments like "don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out" or "we don't need you here anyways" and other deragatory posts where it's clear the person writing is upset that another person is not renewing. I truly don't get it - why are people mad over this? And take me and my well documented decision out of this please when responding - those negative comments have been directed across the board at virtually everyone who has posted they are not renewing next year. There was a thread up last night where the question was asked and posters with little or no board history were getting riduculed and slammed as "fair weather fans" for their decision.
If it's true that we have a long waiting list for seasons tickets the departure of some of the current attendees simply means new people will replace them. And presumably these new fans will be excited and happy to get their seats so the stadium will remain full and with new, perhaps more energized, fans. Why is this a bad thing? Why are people upset with those making the decision to stop attending (regardless of their reasons) - it doesnt make sense to me.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^
"So what is it about how M is losing that makes you feel it's justified?"
It doesn't matter what makes ME feel justified. It matters what makes each ticket holder feel justified.
If someone believes the best thing for the program long term is to get Hoke out of here as quickly as possible and cut our losses - that seems like a very legitimate justification, whether I agree with it or not.
"If a few bounces had gone M's way, nobody has any complaints."
Sorry, but i just don't buy that at all.
November 27th, 2013 at 5:09 PM ^
"If a few bounces had gone M's way, nobody has any complaints."
"Sorry, but i just don't buy that at all."
We are only a couple bounces away from being 10-1. Are you suggesting that if we had only lost to MSU, that there would still be this amount of bitching on the board?
November 27th, 2013 at 10:41 AM ^
Well said Magnus.
If you want to behave like a fairweather fan, so be it. But don't be surprised when we treat you like one.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:51 AM ^
don't quit on your diatribe Magnus... we quit on teams around here, not diatribes...
November 27th, 2013 at 10:53 AM ^
While it seems like a perfect storm is taking place on this board, I think the big premise for a lot of people considering the option of not renewing their tickets is the cost. The performance of the team probably isn't helping matters but when you can consistently purchase tickets on stub hub for well less than what season tickets cost, what's the point of being a season ticket holder?
It's been a while since I've been a season ticket holder - ended when I moved away from the midwest (early 90's). But there was a time when most UM games were not on TV. If you wanted to see UM play, you had to be there in person or you were sol. Now every game is televised. I don't have to pay $30 to park in my driveway. I don't have to pay $4 for a bottle of water from my frig, etc.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:03 AM ^
...in a nutshell. Every person is certainly allowed to make his own decisions about how to spend his money and no one should begrudge or judge those decisions. The problem is that in most cases, the diatribes announcing these decisions don't amount to much more than "I'm taking my ball and going home" rants.
Remember when that happened when we were kids? You know you thought that kid was a punk. Now, maybe that kid had truly had enough of the game and he didn't feel that he was being treated fairly by the other kids. Maybe his gripes were wholly legitimate when viewed from his perspective. But when he left in a pique of anger, maybe the perception of those around him was skewed by his... pique.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:07 AM ^
Agree when directed at posters like me who have clearly done the "I'm going to take my ball and go home" thing in the past. My question is why is it also directed at Joe nobody who simply posts "I'm not renewing". The anger hits everybody....not just people like me.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:11 AM ^
Why would any of us give a s*** if Joe Nobody is not renewing? It's like a Facebook friend who posts that he's taking a dump, or someone on Instagram posting pictures of their breakfast crossaint.
Do it and shut up about it.
November 27th, 2013 at 12:06 PM ^
..as it has come up quite a bit and it feels like we're covering the same ground, but we should care b/c one of the reasons we thought UM was finally going to start competing with the big boys again is we spent the money that MGrowOld and everyone else ponies up every year in PSDs, suites, etc on coaches -- esp asst coaches Mattison (very good use of $$$) and Borges (not so much).
I suspect the nonrenewal/wait for Stubhub movement will be quite big next year, esp if we get beat bad by OSU and in the bowl game. We already know the 2014 home schedule is crap. There is no more waiting list to pick up the slack. Thus, I wonder how quickly we'll careen into Tennessee territory and start running an AD budget deficit*. If that happens, who knows if/when Borges is fired that we will spend the money to get a top asst replacement, or suddenly be subject to the right-sizing/cost control that's currently happening elsewhere at the university? That possibility is why we should care.
All-in-all, this is yet another reason I am hoping for a near-miracle and we beat OSU this weekend.
*I'm assuming Ross' $100 million, like many gifts, is dedicated to certain uses and can't be used to paper over a possible operating deficit But I may be incorrect, as they haven't been specific about where that money is going.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:12 AM ^
No, I'm pretty sure most people are just upset with you at this point.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^
...about it. It was said very well elsewhere in this thread. Make your individual choice about how to spend your entertainment dollar. But don't come crying to me looking for validation. You're not going to get it.
I'm sick and tired of season ticket holders holding themselves out as a privileged class of fan. We get it. You spend a lot of money supporting the program. Pat yourself on the back, pour yourself a cold one and cry into it. Then write a country song about it. I'll hate it.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:27 AM ^
It would seem both you and Magnus are angry at me asking why people are angry.
You guys are just angry.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
What can I say? Whiners bug me.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
...I'm not angry. In fact, what I decry is the anger that permeates this website that's directed toward the athletic department, the football program, its coaches and its studend-athletes. It's relentlessness is soul crushing. Much more than any soul crushing that emanates from the performance of Michigan teams.
As I said earlier, your individual decision is yours to make and I won't judge it, because I can't. All I can judge is your actions that surround it. You seem determined to make yourself the face of the disaffected season ticket holder, despite your protestations to the contrary. In that, you come across as a complete and utter WATB. And I say that with complete dispassion.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
November 27th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^
I had to look up WATB to understand it. Now i know I new word!
Have a Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well. And you too Magnus.....even though you guys think I"m a whiner .........
November 27th, 2013 at 11:50 AM ^
They think you're a whiner because you've been whining for weeks. There's a positive correlation there, if you can look past yourself for a moment.
November 27th, 2013 at 12:28 PM ^
Edit: I'm a big mean jerk. Never mind.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
Decent rant Magnus. But is asking for the coaches (well, really Al Borges, if we want to go with the board consensus) to get fired really a "quitter's attitude"? Seems to me it's more of a "this team deserves better" attitude. Doesn't affect whether or not it's the "right" opinion, but a real quitter wouldn't give a damn who the coaches are. Someone who cares enough to rant about the coaching is still apparently invested in the team.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:41 AM ^
"The reason is that it looks like you're abandoning ship."
This seems to imply that abandoning ship is always wrong.
It also seems to imply that fans have some sort of a moral imperative to support the team. There isn't.
"This isn't necessarily directed at you, but people are just pansies when it comes to losing. Man up and deal with it."
I'd change that to "people are just pansies when it comes to paying to watch losing".
The people who are talking about not renewing aren't "losing" - the football team is.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^
Then abandon ship. Nobody's telling him not to do it. But when you make a big production of it, it's basically, "Hey, guys, I'm abandoning ship. Who's with me? Come join me!"
And *I* wouldn't change that to "people are just pansies when it comes to paying to watch losing." Because there are plenty of people bitching about it who just sit at home and watch on TV...or who even turn off the TV when things are going poorly.
Does the team deserve better? Sure. And there are people paid to make those decisions who are more qualified than you or me. But bitching about it on message boards doesn't do anyone any good.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:56 AM ^
"Then abandon ship. Nobody's telling him not to do it. But when you make a big production of it, it's basically, "Hey, guys, I'm abandoning ship. Who's with me? Come join me!"
Sure - and if you honestly believe that is the best thing for the University of Michigan long-term, why is there anything wrong with that?
Your attitude comes across just like the "Love it, or leave it" folks. It's a false dichotomy.
Why is "change it through the agency we do have" not considered a reasonable option?
"And *I* wouldn't change that to "people are just pansies when it comes to paying to watch losing." Because there are plenty of people bitching about it who just sit at home and watch on TV...or who even turn off the TV when things are going poorly."
If you pay for cable that includes ESPN/BTN... you're paying for it.
"But bitching about it on message boards doesn't do anyone any good."
Correct. The bitching by itself does nothing. Enough season ticket holders choosing not to renew, and it becoming an item well known in the mainstream media just MIGHT force some folks hands, though.
November 27th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^
It's the losing without any sign of improvement or hope that things will get better. Once that is lost then the decision makes a lot of sense. You are not a better person because you lose hope at a slower rate than someone else does(which in essence is what we are shouting at each other about in here).
When you compare that against the number of time, money, and emotional investment spent on Michigan sports and realize there is not a corresponding payoff it is very easy to just stop and walk away. These last few losses have been frustrating, disheartening, and in light of the last few years indicative of a program that may never right the ship. So no, being mad at season ticket holders who look at all of this and say, "Fuck it!" is not particularly productive and telling people who've reached a breaking point that they need to be better fans is not going to make you come off as a good fan, it makes you come off as an asshole.
Something is wrong here and the only weay Brandon will take it seriously is if he starts looking at things like unprecedented numbers of season ticket holders not renewing their tickets and giant swathes of scarlet in Michigan Stadium. At some point fans matter, maybe this point will prove to be the tipping point but I doubt it.
November 27th, 2013 at 1:12 PM ^
I wish I had written that. You captured my emotions & decision-making tree perfectly.
November 27th, 2013 at 1:46 PM ^
That's not the issue.
The issue is the people who ANNOUNCE and CAMPAIGN for not renewing season tickets. Those people are the ones who get the snide comments.
I haven't said word one about anyone canceling their season tickets. It's not my business how people spend their money. The only time I've tapped into that conversation is when I've seen MGrowOld address it in several threads, and then create his own thread asking why people don't like it when he (and others) announce their withdrawal of support.
I've taken a ton of flak on this board for various things, going all the way back to the Haloscan days. People call me names, insult me, bring me up in random conversations, make parody accounts, etc. I've never felt the need to start a thread saying "Why is everyone picking on me?" MGrowOld announced that he wasn't renewing his season tickets, took some negative comments for a couple days, and suddenly feels like a martyr for The Cause (of Firing Al Borges or Whatever).*
MGrowOld allegedly started this thread to get an answer to an important question that's burning in his mind, that he couldn't let go until he got an answer.
Well, now he has his answer. He should know by this point why people don't like it. There's really no reason for him to argue it anymore.
*Yes, it's a catchy name. I came up with it myself. It will be trademarked soon.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:38 PM ^
Holy shit Magnus. I've reached Mr Rager status in your eyes.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:39 PM ^
Well, you do pretty much turn every thread into a string of wordy, "look at me! I'm not renewing my tickets!" posts. It's pretty noticeable.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:43 PM ^
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that people have said lots of bad things about me for a much longer time period, and there's never been a point when I've felt it necessary to make a post saying, "Why me?" You've been getting flak for a few days and basically made a post saying, "Why me?"
You're being criticized. It's okay. Maybe people have a good reason. Maybe they don't. But I don't see the point in trying to campaign, make yourself a martyr, etc.
Mr. Rager is/was a very special...character.
November 27th, 2013 at 5:35 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 5:38 PM ^
If total loyalty at all times is the only way to be a fan, I guess the direction of the program is irrelevant. If getting negative is the only way to affect positive change, then I think it's warranted in the case of Michigan football.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:21 AM ^
I joined the waiting list Carr's last year, after RR went 3-9 I got my season tickets, I have talked to many others that had that happen too. So I assume a lot of people didn't renew after that season, however the stadium was still full the following year.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:21 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
Personally, I don't care if people renew or not, I just have gotten sick of people throwing around the title "season ticket holder" as though that makes them more entitled than other fans (or entitled at all to anything, for that matter).
Renew, don't, whatever, I don't care. Just make a decision and stop throwing it around like some kind of threat or as if it means something.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
I'm a 5 year season ticket holder. When I got my first job offer out of college the first thing I did was put my name on the wait list. I bought season tickets for the atmosphere, the tailgating, the fun of being there. I didn't buy them cause I thought in 2009 Michigan was gonna be good. I bought them so I have them for the next 50 years. Now the price has gone up while the experience has decreased. If the price goes up then there will be a point to where I can't afford them anymore or it's just not wise use of what middle-class money I make. That's the only reason I wouldn't renew was if it got to a point where I couldn't justify the cost anymore, and Dave Brandon hasn't done that yet, but he's getting close.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:18 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 2:58 PM ^
Magnus isn't "wrong" about anything here. This is all, like, people's opinions, man.
November 28th, 2013 at 6:37 AM ^
Yup.
Magnus defense coming from Timmmaay, though? Wow...
November 27th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 10:25 AM ^
How did I know who started this thread before opening it? Jesus, man. The horse is fucking dead already, rotting, in fact. LET. IT. GO.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:30 AM ^
TIMMAY - can you at least try to answer the question? You completely missed my point and take me out of your response please.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:34 AM ^
I answered above. And so long as you continue on your crusade, I will continue berating you for it. You've quickly become one of my least favorite posters here.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:40 AM ^
No you didnt Timmay. You directed your response to me personally which is exactly what I asked responders NOT to do. You let your opinion about me (one of your least favorite posters) direct your response.
I was honestly hoping people could divorce themselves from their feelings about me and answer the question. Guess not.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:44 AM ^
I will admit that's it's difficult for me to detach the "issue" from your barrage of comments on the matter. As to the comment about being one of my "least favorite"; it wasn't always the case. It's a fairly recent development for me.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:30 AM ^
I will say it's getting a bit annoying that you keep bringing this topic up. Its no problem that you replied in the thread asking who is or is not renewing their season tickets but you seem really adamant on letting anyone know any chance you get that you aren't renewing.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:39 AM ^
Good question. I have kept my tix since I graduated in 1998 and have spent 10 of the last 15 years living in either North Carolina or Los Angeles. I have come back for 2-3 big games each year and given/sold the balance to friends/family. I am now in Chicago and have been considering giving up my season tix as I am now able to still go to the big game(s) every year mixed in with various away games (last year ND & Alabama, this year NW) which I find very enjoyable as well.
For me the consideration to relinquish my tix are based on three things: 1. My new proximity to away games which are actually on average as close or closer than AA. 2. The absurd explosion of ticket prices/PSL. 3. 2014 home schedule (how Brandon allowed MSU to host us in 2014 over his dead body is beyond ridiculous)
My decision has not been affected whatsoever since our win over ND. I generally only care to go to our home opener + ND/other decent OOC game + MSU/PSU/Ohio. So I just do not see a reason to continue to write a check for $1,000-1,500 every April for 2-3 games each year then go through the hassle to unload the other 4-5 games every fall. I'd prefer to pony up $50 for the opener, $200-250 for a big game home ticket then catch a game or two at Purdue/IU/Iowa/Illinois/Wisky/NW/etc. every fall.
So while I may be one of those that is "threatening" to give up his 2014 tix after 15 years it is not for the same reasons that are driving this thread.
go blue.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:39 AM ^
for a inferior substandard product on the football field...I don t blame them one bit..
If you bought a new expense car and it fell apart after you pulled out of the lot would you just stand by and not say say anything because you dont want people to think you were just abandoning ship?
November 27th, 2013 at 10:39 AM ^
MGro,
We’ve shared a few comments (Sec 1, too) with regard to the growing disappointment with several/many things related to M Football and the current handling by the AD.
As you request, let’s hope this doesn’t turn into some flame attractant! What I see is that many people realize a) there is no waiting list (announced attendance for Akron – 107k+ attests to the fact that the AD didn’t sell out all the season ticket packages they could have)…and b) the fact that there are singles available (purchase up to 4 for Saturday’s game, down from up to 6 for Minn or Neb)…so c) it tells people that the pride felt at having the largest crowd in America is not going to be ours much longer. And finally d) they want you and me to continue making that happen.
I’ve bought tickets post-graduation and been a season ticket buyer 21-22 straight years. My Victors Club point total stands over 110…so I’ve given, and given a lot/quite enough. As can be seen on the ticket price chart, I’ve been there, paying for all the Akrons, Appy States, et al. Attending all those games. No one can question my loyalty or my devotion to the program.
I guess it was a pipe dream that the AD would offer us a “loyalty rebate” or discount off the PSD, considering the foul 2014 home slate, and our years of support. Fat chance, eh?
I can’t answer why people have lashed out at you or others for not re-upping…though they tend not to be season ticket holders, nor longer term as you and me…other than what I typed in the first para.
Hope you and the missus will make a trip or three every year, but like you, the willingness to part with $2400/yr (or more) for 4 seats has evaporated. We’ll buy via the open market, let someone else donate. I may donate to the College of Engineering, but not to the AD until we have the product on the field, and the product throughout, to make the experience the rich and tradition-filled event it was while attending school.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:46 AM ^
Thanks Larry. I may be one of TIMMAY's least favorite poster but you are quickly becoming one of my MOST favorite posters.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for actually trying to answer the question.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:55 AM ^
So you like posters that disagree with you and you like posters that agree with you.
So brave.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ^
We are all very impressed by your Victors Club point total and feel badly that you have carried the burden of attending games for so long.