Serious Question - Ron English vs. Scott Schafer/Greg Robinson

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November 14th, 2009 at 3:45 PM
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k06em01
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Serious Question - Ron English vs. Scott Schafer/Greg Robinson

I remember our Ron English led defense being pretty good against Florida in Lloyd's last game. I remember thinking that the defense was going to be the reason that we were respectable last season (there wasn't THAT much change in personnel). But instead, in the last two seasons, it has been a huge, huge weakness.

So, the question that I am asking here is this - If Rich Rodriguez had retained Ron English (and some of his defensive assistants). If he would have made Tony Gibson his assistant recruiting coordinator (or something), and Bruce Tall as his special teams coach (or something). How much better (or worse) would this defense be!?

Was a change in defensive philosophy REALLY necessary!? If you're basing your guess on how we looked at the (very) end of Lloyd's last season, it's hard to say yes. Keep in mind that Ron English was an excellent recrutier. Keep in mind that several defensive players that have left probably would have stayed. Keep in mind that he could've really helped Rich Rod adjust to UofM's traditions.

RichRod's offense is already started to flash the potential of what it could be with a true freshman quarterback and a bunch of veterans that don't really fit the system. But his handling of the defensive staff has been nothing short of atrocious to this point. Maybe it will work out eventually, but good Lord. Might have been able to have an Urban Meyer/Charlie Strong thing going here (and I am ONLY saying that because they're both black! lol).

EDIT - hopefully my sarcasm won't be overlooked here.

DOUBLE EDIT - I am NOT saying that Greg Robinson is a bad coach...that he is doing a bad job with what he has to workout, or that he won't eventually working out...i'm just saying that the transition could have been handled better on the defensive side of the ball.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

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November 14th, 2009 at 3:48 PM | That Defense got torched (Score:1)
sjastrz
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That Defense got torched against Florida, App St, and Oregon.

November 14th, 2009 at 3:50 PM | App St and Oregon yes, early (Score:1)
k06em01
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App St and Oregon yes, early in the season. Florida, no.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 3:53 PM | 35 points and nearly 400 (Score:1)
sjastrz
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35 points and nearly 400 yards isn't getting torched?

November 14th, 2009 at 3:56 PM | offense turned the ball over (Score:1)
k06em01
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offense turned the ball over a lot. and that was arguably the best offensive team in the land that season. if mike hart is his regular self, we won by 3-4 td's.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 4:01 PM | Okay, that's nice, but what (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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Okay, that's nice, but what does that have to do with the 2009 Michigan team? Woulda, coulda, shoulda; all of this gets us nowhere. We know where we stand (poor talent, lack of depth, inexperienced players, walkons), so we're at a point where we know D is bad and no one is going to fix it at this point. We recruit, get some good secondary and LB studs in, and start building for next year.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:16 PM | I like that response, and I (Score:1)
k06em01
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I like that response, and I agree with everything you said. I am just asking if the transition would have gone better on the side it had a chance to - defense (as the transition problems were inevitable with an offensive head coach like rich rod).

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 4:58 PM | Ron English had the likes of (Score:1)
MCHammer-smooth
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Ron English had the likes of Lamarr Woodley, Alan Branch, harris, Hall, Jamison, Crable and so on the year his defense was all everything ... up until OSU and USC. Robinson has a 3rd the talent ... that being Warren, Graham and Martin. The weak spot on English's defense was Morgan Trent who is now the starting nickleback for Cincinnati.

Oh-oh oh-oh oh-oh Here comes the ban hammer.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:59 PM | The transition would have (Score:1)
MCHammer-smooth
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The transition would have been easier if we had the talent we had then not the DC we had then.

Oh-oh oh-oh oh-oh Here comes the ban hammer.

November 14th, 2009 at 5:02 PM | woodley - graham. branch - (Score:1)
k06em01
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woodley - graham.
branch - martin.
harris - ezeh.
hall - warren.
crable - roh.

obviously, the talent is way less. but we've still got some at some positions. people are hearing me wrong here. im not saying that we would have been great or anything...i am just saying that more continuity MIGHT have resulted in a less horrible defense. I'm not even taking sides. I'm just posing a question.

and i'm also asking if this would have been better or not long term...i dont know. maybe.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:13 PM | Are you equating Obi Ezeh to (Score:1)
RagingBean
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Are you equating Obi Ezeh to David Harris? Cause that's the single craziest thing I've ever heard.

November 14th, 2009 at 7:03 PM | no, i said that the talent is (Score:1)
k06em01
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no, i said that the talent is worse, and i put them together to show that.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:14 PM | There's 11 on defense too (Score:1)
TIMMMAAY
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Also, Harris =! Ezeh by a longshot, nor Crable/Roh.

not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user

November 14th, 2009 at 7:04 PM | again, i put them together to (Score:1)
k06em01
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again, i put them together to show that the talent is worse.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 6:01 PM | Shawn Crable doesn't = Roh (Score:1)
MCHammer-smooth
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Shawn Crable doesn't = Roh ... maybe in a year or two. Martin is really good but doesn't equal Branch and Taylor and the depth there. No Ezeh is no Harris ... not even close I'm not even surehe is Chris Graham .

Like i said we have 3 good players, Warren, Martin and Graham. That defense had Adams, leon hall, morgan trent at DB they had Prescott burgess, Shawn Crable (DE/OLB), Chris Graham, David Harris at LB. We had Lamarr Woodley, Terrance Taylor, Alan branch and Rondell Biggs on our Dline. We have no one else that has any experience and we have no depth. I good DB does not a good secondary make. 0 good LBs doesn't either. I don't know a DC around that could have done a shitty job with that.

Oh-oh oh-oh oh-oh Here comes the ban hammer.

November 14th, 2009 at 7:04 PM | I was agreeing with you man. (Score:1)
k06em01
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I was agreeing with you man. I put them next to eachother to show that the talent is worse.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:14 PM | Easier said than done, unfortunately (Score:1)
BlueInDallas
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"We recruit, get some good secondary and LB studs in, and start building for next year."

Other than recruiting Marvin Robinson, what have we done so far in this regard? I'm not trying to be a prick, I"m serious. RR is not focusing on defense either on the field or in recruiting, GERG doesn't recruit, our defensive position coaches are a joke, who the heck is going to fix this? I wish I was as optimistic as you about the future of our defense.

November 14th, 2009 at 5:25 PM | Yeah, Rod isn't focusing on (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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Yeah, Rod isn't focusing on the D. Hmm, wonder why the majority of our offers for the 2011 class are for defensive recruits? Hmm, wonder why we already have 3 DB commits and are going to get 3-4 more (Christian, Grimes, Knight, hopefully Jefferson or Parker). Hmm we got Robinson, but how about Furman and Olaniyan? Who cares if Greg Robinson doesn't recruit; our other recruiters are really good and we'll be fine.

November 14th, 2009 at 7:07 PM | have u seen the osu game (Score:1)
k06em01
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have u seen the osu game visitors!? take a look before you post something like that.

the defensive position coaches are a joke for the most part though, and i wish g-rob would do more recruiting...given his nfl experience, he could be an asset there.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 15th, 2009 at 5:59 AM | west texas blue (Score:1)
los barcos
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is right.

lets pack it in, and not talk about anything related to the defense ever again.

because theres nothing to talk about. ever.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:41 PM | Our offense had a few (Score:1)
jmblue
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Our offense had a few turnovers, but I don't think any of them put our D in a bad position. I'd say the D had an adequate game. It struggled for long portions, but got two big stops at the end.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:49 PM | adaquete!? the team on the (Score:1)
k06em01
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adaquete!? the team on the other side of the field had a heisman trophy winning quarterback (one of the best in the history of college fball), and an array of well developed 4 and 5 stars at every single position. he got friggin' nailed like two dozen times in that game. we played freaking great, i thought. it was an awesome team. some yards, some points, were inevitable. we did what we had to do. and that was great.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:09 PM | Well, four of Florida's eight (Score:1)
jmblue
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Well, four of Florida's eight SEC opponents held them to fewer points than we did, so it's not like no one ever stopped them.

November 14th, 2009 at 7:07 PM | who were those 4? I'm (Score:1)
k06em01
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who were those 4? I'm willing to bet that they were excellent, excellent defensive squads.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 11:43 PM | The four were Ole Miss (Score:1)
jmblue
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The four were Ole Miss (so-so), Auburn (strong), LSU (good but somewhat underperforming) and Georgia (decent, not great).

November 15th, 2009 at 5:29 AM | "LSU - good but somewhat (Score:1)
k06em01
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"LSU - good but somewhat underperforming" - THEY WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!?!?!?

Georgia was awesome that year. ANIHILATED their opponent in a bcs bowl that year, right?

Auburn was good that year - a defense i would LOVE to have.

Ole Miss is the only simply above average defense on that list.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 15th, 2009 at 12:39 PM | As measured by PPG in (Score:1)
chitownblue2
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As measured by PPG in 2007:

Auburn - #6 defense nationally.
LSU - #20 defense nationally.
Georgia - #28
Ole Miss - #71

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

November 15th, 2009 at 1:14 PM | Yes, LSU won the national (Score:1)
jmblue
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Yes, LSU won the national championship, mostly because the voters had run out of teams to vote #1. Their D was stacked with future NFL players but underperformed, giving up 30+ points several times, including both of the games they lost.

November 14th, 2009 at 3:51 PM | If we kept Ron English, who (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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If we kept Ron English, who interviewed for the coaching job, that would have caused some tensions. And we gave 35 points to Florida; I wouldn't call that a good defensive performance.

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/decimated-defense-part-ii-statisticating

With all the defensive talent issues and attrition, nobody could have made this D great.

November 14th, 2009 at 3:58 PM | i don't know...how serious a (Score:1)
k06em01
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i don't know...how serious a candidate was ron english anyways? hate to say it, but i always thought they were more or less token.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:00 PM | Don't forget the defense Ron (Score:1)
MCHammer-smooth
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Don't forget the defense Ron English had at Louisville and that vaunted EMU D.

Oh-oh oh-oh oh-oh Here comes the ban hammer.

November 14th, 2009 at 7:09 PM | dude, i am not saying that (Score:1)
k06em01
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dude, i am not saying that ron english is a great or even good defensive coordinator. i am simply asking how much better the transition would have been with him. i think at least a little bit.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 3:53 PM | Here is the real question- RR (Score:1)
marc_from_novi
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Here is the real question- RR vs anyone?

Willie Heston - 72 touchdowns; 4 National titles; 43-0-1 record; All-American; Law Degree

November 14th, 2009 at 3:59 PM | 24 points on offense, with a (Score:1)
k06em01
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24 points on offense, with a true frosh at qb, and veterans that dont fit the system - that isn't a problem. the defense is.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 4:05 PM | Ummm (Score:1)
The King of Belch
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17 points on offense--the defense scored a TD.

But--to retain Ron English, who wanted the HC job--no one is gonna do that.

I just think Rodriguez was surprised when casteel stayed at WVU. One thing I will say is that Shafer's capegoating was not the move to make.

/Hinddight admittedly is 20/20

That being said, it is what it is.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:17 PM | good point on the 17. also a (Score:1)
k06em01
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good point on the 17. also a very good point on Kasteel surprising him. Maybe that is what REALLY happened.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 3:54 PM | Even though Michigan (Score:1)
maizenblue92
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Even though Michigan struggled against the spread they were still able to stop teams like Wisconson, Purdue, and Illinois under Ron English

"I tried to but a pencil in the light socket but it was too wide and didn't fit so I used a paperclip."-Terrelle Pryor, Future Rhodes Scholar

November 14th, 2009 at 3:55 PM | They weren't so hot against (Score:1)
sjastrz
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They weren't so hot against OSU either.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:01 PM | right, and rich rod could (Score:1)
k06em01
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right, and rich rod could have helped him out against spread teams, like he allegedly influenced the florida defensive game plan.

and osu basically killed the clock against us for the entire second half...because our offense was so ineffective against them.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:02 PM | I know you can not post (Score:1)
MCHammer-smooth
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I know you can not post anymore due to your point total but you did look at the talent level we had when English was DC as opposed to now, no?

Oh-oh oh-oh oh-oh Here comes the ban hammer.

November 14th, 2009 at 5:11 PM | Wisconsin? (Score:1)
jmblue
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English's D surrendered 37 points to Wisconsin in 2007.

November 14th, 2009 at 3:55 PM | Nevermind... (Score:1)
Papochronopolis
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Nevermind...

November 14th, 2009 at 3:56 PM | GERG has only Graham and (Score:1)
cpt20
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GERG has only Graham and Warren to work with. The safeties cannot cover shit. Linebackers cannot cover a fucking TE.

It just sucks how we gave up 45 points to Wisconsin.

November 14th, 2009 at 4:02 PM | i think that more defensive (Score:1)
k06em01
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i think that more defensive players would have stayed here if ron english was the coordinator...artis chambers, for one possiblility.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 4:06 PM | I doubt Artis Chambers would (Score:1)
Lutha
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I doubt Artis Chambers would have appreciably changed this defense

November 14th, 2009 at 4:19 PM | didn't he start some games as (Score:1)
k06em01
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didn't he start some games as a true frosh...and then was later benched and we almost got in some serious problems due to clearing house issues. definitely would have been an upgrade.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 6:01 PM | serious question (Score:1)
MileHighWolverine
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how many guys do you think our current D would need just to be average? Is it 2, 3, maybe just 1? My gut is 2 decent LB's and we are a completely different D. We are just that short of bodies...especially upperclassmen.

November 14th, 2009 at 3:58 PM | Simple.... (Score:1)
JT4104
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English had 2 LB's who could run and save the collective mistakes of everyone else....David Harris and Shawn Crable made enough plays to make English look like a miracle worker.

Besides basicly ZERO talent on D....the LB's are your typical LC 6'2 and 245 lbs stone footed guys that cant move in space.

If you dont believe that just watch Ezeh game after game...he always waits for the blocker in the hole to get to him...never attacks!

November 14th, 2009 at 4:03 PM | i believe that ezeh started (Score:1)
k06em01
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i believe that ezeh started in that florida game as a frosh and wasn't a weakness. he's in and out of the lineup with a walk-on as a junior now.

By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)

November 14th, 2009 at 5:16 PM | Look at him watch the play (Score:1)
RagingBean
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JybFWy9_-Pk

Look at him watch the play until Percy Harvin is 10 yards past him and tell me that again.

November 15th, 2009 at 6:07 AM | like he said (Score:1)
los barcos
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ezeh is a frosh here.

but thats still a good point you make. seriously.

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