Semi OT - Austin Rivers going pro
Austin Rivers is leaving Duke (hiring agent) to go pro. Any impact on Burke? I'm thinking the more lottery guards who declare the better for us. Thoughts?
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketba…
March 23rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM ^
I reckon that depends on whether NBA GM's think Rivers is better than Burke.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:02 PM ^
I would be shocked if Rivers doesn't go significantly higher than Burke, even if Burke stays and goes next year. Maybe I am wrong but I think he could be a lottery pick. Rivers is a slasher and has the NBA pedigree. He just needs to add some passing refinement and shot consistency and he could be a very good NBA player in my opinion. Those are the types of "vast potential" players that the NBA covets during the draft.
Any NBA GM who thinks Burke is a better pro prospect today compared to Rivers is just dumb. I don't love Rivers's game, but he's a plus athlete with lots of playmaking ability and the physicality to play the position as a rookie. Burke is a decent athlete on the shorter side with an athletic ceiling below that of Rivers. Doesn't mean he can't play in the pros, but as other people pointed out yesterday he's a good deal like Kalin Lucas with a better shot, and Lucas wasn't drafted.
March 23rd, 2012 at 11:57 AM ^
Doesn't hurt, but Rivers isn't a PG. I'll be more interested to see what Damien Lillard, Marquis Teague, Myck Kabongo, etc. do. Maalik Wayns has already entered and signed an agent.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:11 PM ^
He's a bit of a combo. And a better PG prospect than Burke in the eyes of NBA GMs most likely. And he's one more guy that will be rated higher than Trey. So I would say it is indeed a good thing. Those second tier PG's you mentioned will be even bigger news, but who knows if Trey's people are telling him he'll go before them.
March 23rd, 2012 at 11:58 AM ^
I wonder if "Dailysportseditor" thinks this reflects poorly on Coach K?
March 23rd, 2012 at 11:59 AM ^
He is a leader of men.
was saying (not that I'm a fan) that Duke was expecting this move from Rivers and was pushing for it. Apparently Rivers isn't easy to play with and him being gone opens up a spot for Shabazz.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM ^
But it's really a shame to me that college basketball almost inevitably loses its best players - often before they've even reached their peak. Will there ever be a year when you have guys like Chris Webber (the sophmore version), Glenn Robinson (Prop. 48 freshman version), and Grant Hill (junior) all playing college basketball at the same time (as in '92-'93, IIRC)? I doubt it.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM ^
Unfortunately, those days are long gone. This year (with the NBA strike) and maybe the Durant/Oden year (first year of the one year in college requirement) were probably the best we'll see in a while, and they were nowhere near the golden years.
The top players leaving early for the NBA does have a negative impact on the college game. But what is an even bigger shame is that players who will never make it in the NBA still leave early, leaving behind a scholarship and opportunity for a college dgree. I don't really blame anyone who will be a top pick leaving early, but what about those who have no real chance for success in the NBA?
if you go undrafted and you did not hire an agent, very good players (all players for that matter) should have a window to be able to return to college basketball improving the overall level of play, getting the kid closer to a degree, giving NBA teams more chances at better players and overall not ruining a kid's life. That way everyone wins.
for a kid who doesn't want to be there? If the kid didn't get drafted he probably left against the coaches advice. Just get rid of the one and done because it makes a mockery of the term student/athlete. Staying eligible for one semester is all you have to do.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM ^
The more talent in the draft the more likely Burke gets pushed down and the more likely he stays. This is winning.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:05 PM ^
it makes our collective worst fear even more inevitable. Things are not adding up well for Michigan fans. Sullinger comes back - draft stock slides, Hardaway comes back - draft stock slides. Rivers is out, a player that I don't think has Trey's upside. I don't think it means nothing that JB was on the first plane to Nevada and that the idea of immediate playing time was discussed. I think the biggest thing right now is to keep the incoming class solid and add on where possible. I think we should all get used to the fact that we have experienced our first one and done of the JB era.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:10 PM ^
I think most of us hoped JB's first one and done would be someone like McGary getting drafted in the top 5, not a fringe second round pick.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:12 PM ^
think that is where he will end up. I do think that the fact that nobody thought he would come out factored into where he was placed in mock drafts. I think he is a first rounder, not a lottery pick, but dude has some serious game.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:32 PM ^
That doesn't make sense. If you're going to put the guy in a mock draft, you're operating under the assumption that he is leaving. He wouldn't be in there otherwise.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:14 PM ^
Austin Rivers going pro clearly improves Burke's draft stock. Clearly.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:17 PM ^
/s. And how much different do you think the "information" collected by Trey Burke is going to differ from that given to Austin Rivers?
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:33 PM ^
That's all you need to know. Rivers will be a lottery pick.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:41 PM ^
he is a lottery pick. One game winning 3 does not a lottery pick make. Not 6'4. May be listed around there but I am 6'4 if he is 6'4. And not ranking a guy to be seriously in the mix does involve whether or not you believe him to be seriously in the mix. Where was D. Morris ranked before he spoke on the NBA, a lot lower than where he was drafted.
Look, I don't want him to leave at all, but he was a second team All-American, has a bullseye stroke and plays much bigger than his size. I think he is better than the 74th overall pick, a lot better.
I will disagree with you. I do feel that Rivers has a good shot of being a lottery pick. I love Burke's game but Rivers is quicker, is a better jumper and is 4 inches taller. He has way more potential than does Burke although Burke is a much more fundamentally sound player right now. Rivers was the best player on Duke.
Edit: Just looked and Rivers is listed at 15 on Chad Ford's list along with the comment "GMs seem to think we have Austin Rivers too low." So it sounds like the lottery is a real possibility depending on who else declares.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:52 PM ^
read that he was measured at 6'5" in shoes at a camp. Maybe the fact that you think I'm basing this on just one shot shows a lack of understanding on your part of the season he had, and his skill level, and excuses your ignorance.
Bottom line, I feel absolutely comfortable in guaranteeing that Rivers will be projected ahead of Burke and knock him down a peg. Where Burke actually does end up being ranked, and if he's better than 74th (of course he is) isn't relevent to our discussion.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:58 PM ^
ignorance on display here is you calling another person you have never met ignorant because of a discussion regarding Austin River's draft status. You have offiicially taken things too seriously.
I'm not calling you an ignorant person, just in your knowledge of Austin Rivers and his draft stock. It's not an insult.
Rivers is a better athlete than Burke, is bigger, and is at least as good a playmaker. He shot the three about as well as Burke (37%), is a decent defender, and carried a team with a moderate ceiling (the Plumlee brothers and Seth Curry do not remind me of Hill and Lattener by any stretch, not even Cherokee Park) to a #2 seed. I love Burke and think that he'll be a great player if he stays, but Rivers is ready for the NBA today and staying in college won't make him much better. Burke sticking around will only improve his game.
I don't know how you look at Rivers and Burke and say Rivers is a better athlete. He is taller. Burke plays the whole game, has a ridiculous handle and athleticism that overcomes his heigth. If I was a GM I would be an idiot and take him. That said, I still think Rivers is going to be a far more popular draft choice based on potential and glimpses he showed throughout season. He also seems more versatile because of his height and my guess is better offensive and defensive range (blocks and 3s no?) because of his stature. Short guys like me get a hand in your stomach not face. Further, not many tiny guys can throw it in from NBA range with consistency. That is coming from a short guy who shot well from the HS/college line but would get blocked 80% of the time if I shot from NBA three land. That is a long way homie. I think TB will be lottery if he plays a season with Mitch and GR. I almost would have guaran-sheed'd it if Smots would have stayed. Dude is going to be hard pressed to throw a ball up that does not get thrown down!
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:34 PM ^
The coaches contacted Della Valle in February. The players and the coaches knew that there would be some attrition but could not announce it officially. If they want any chance to sign the kid, they needed to get on him ASAP. It is simply the difference between filling a sholarship with a great talent and being more prepared for a POSSIBLE loss of Trey vs. being sloppy and potentially losing Trey and being left with nothing. I applaud the coaches' dilligence.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:38 PM ^
I'd like to see him on Michigan's roster next year even if Burke returns. He looks like he'd be a guy who could be a secondary ball-handler and/or back-up PG depending on how you want to use him.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM ^
When Chad Ford ranks Trey Burke at #72 ($), I don't know why he'd end up going pro.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/top100/_/year/2012
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:12 PM ^
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:40 PM ^
Williams went #2 overall behind Andrew Bogut. #3 and #4? Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Ouch, Hawks.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:12 PM ^
Talking to some Duke friends, they are all thrilled he's gone....most of them never thought he fit in from the get go. I'll admit, his style of game never seemed to be the Duke style.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:14 PM ^
If you watched Rivers and Burke play this year, I think most people would agree that Burke was better. Also Burke has a defined position, whereas Rivers does not. If being honest who would you rather draft for your team? A combo guard like Rivers or a true point guard in Burke. This scares me that Rivers declared.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:16 PM ^
what in the world? He is not near the prospect Irving was at this point. A little undersized. Best case scenario for him is that Daddy convinces the Celtics GM to pick him up later in the first round.
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:42 PM ^
I'll never forget how I just sat and laughed hysterically when he hit the game winning 3 against Carolina this year.
Do the Celtics draft him? That'd be interesting.
The NBA and NCAA need to realize that they need each other rather than fight over draft rules. They should get together and establish either the MLB or NHL policy regarding drafting and amature status.
MLB - You can be drafted every year after you complete high school and the teams hold your rights until August 15th. After that you are eligible for the next draft.
NHL - A team holds your rights up until 30 days until after you complete college and you can leave at any time.
The NBDL sucks as a minor league system and players who go overseas to latch on to a pro team almost never come back. I think the NHL system makes total sense for the NBA to adopt because they get an automatic minor league system and can determine the best fit for a player. Someone like Burke could maybe be the property of the Chicago Bulls and they'll tell him "stay in school, we don't need you". Then if Rose gets hurt they could say "once your season is done we need you right away!"
As for Rivers, ESPN has been hyping him as a prospect since he was in diapers it feels like so expect him to be a lottery pick for sure. The Marvin Williams analogy is a good one. I also felt that Greg Oden was vastly overhyped since I think he almost never dominated his one season in college. If he didn't have the knees of a geriatric his ceiling was maybe a poor man's Robert Parrish. He was drafted on "potential" like most players are....exactly why the league needs a better minor league system.
thank God. He was very talented but he was just bad for chemistry, was a ball hog, and rarely got the ball to the bigs in good positions. He also has absolutely no idea how to run a pick-and-roll correctly. He'll probably go 15-25. I think it's a smart move on his part because I think if he had stayed another year scouts would start to pick him apart. He's being drafted more on potential than production.
I never thought he was worth the hype after seeing him play this year. NBA type player on a team whose offense is predicated on more than 1-on-1 moves. I am glad he is gone from college basketball.
Also, what is with Duke having a run of ugly players these past few years? Scheyer, Singler, Kelly (although his beard saved him this year), and the Plumlee brothers are all just ugly IMO. It's an irrational reason to hate them, but it's near the top of my list at present.
His kids might be the best athletes on this planet but I feel sorry for them.
At least Candace Parker is good looking. I hope, for the childrens' sake, that her genes are the dominant ones.