Section 21 cheerleaders and stadium etiquette
At the State game I was mostly surrounded by Spartans. A few of them were very annoying, but the fans that bugged me the most in the immediate area were a couple with Maize 'n Blue gear. Why? As far as I could see, they had a poor grasp of stadium etiquette, at least as I understand it. I'm accustomed to standing up often for big plays as the "standing" wave cascades upward from the field. No big deal ... I usually enjoy the process and it seems healthier than sitting for the whole game. But, outside the student section I rarely see people standing continuously. That's what these two fans, who were apparently boyfriend and girlfriend, were doing.
When it became clear that this was going to be their baseline posture, I decided to engage them in conversation. (They turned my seat into an obstructed-view location. It was that simple.) I had to reach over a row to do so and the woman was closest, so I started with her. When I asked whether she wouldn't mind sitting for "less important plays" she gave me a really nonlinear answer along the lines of "GO BLUE DEFENSE AHHHHHHH!!!" Ever accidentally step on a cat's tail? Remember the sound the cat made? Multiply that by six or seven and you'll have some idea of how the chick sounded. It hurt my ears.
It was my brother-in-law's turn, so he tried poking the guy, who went ape$hit. In spectacularly nonlinear fashion, he started screaming to everyone in the area about how Michigan hadn't beaten State in many hundreds of days and how we needed to STAND UP and support the team. The doofus was the self-appointed spirit bunny of Section 21. Even the meathead Spartans behind me were stunned at the outburst.
Anyway, I'll spare the readers the rest of the details. They settled down a bit and, shortly after the dude screamed himself hoarse in the third quarter, they left (!). So much for the cheerleader role ...
Were they justified in standing up in a sea of sitting people? Spirit aside, I just wanted to see the game. I honestly didn't understand why they couldn't sit like everyone else (since their own view would not have been obstructed). What do MgoBloggers think of this?
October 14th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
Point taken.
Not sure how it's self-righteous...
But, I now see what you meant with your post- that that's how fans are thinking of it.
I don't want anyone to have a bad experience at a game, but I want to win badly, and I know that fans can affect a play/game.
Again, my apologies...I got heated about it and went too far.
Minus the heated tone, football, at least to me, is a game of inches to everyone in the stadium. That's what makes great moments great. You're connected. You can be a part of it- (again, my opinion) more than a witness.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^
Just because the "average" fan is stupid does not mean that we need to play into that line of thinking. I understand what you are saying but I submit that, with Michigan's defense as it is in 2010, first down may actually be the most important down of a series. But that's just me.
October 14th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
There's obviously a ton of support for "you should always stand and if you're not standing just watch at home" which, seriously guys? You don't think that sitting in a seat at the most prestigious stadium in the history of college football is akin to sitting on your couch? I'm that guy at the rock concert that doesn't like to stand, I don't clap any less or yell any less than the people next to me but I prefer to enjoy the concert sitting down. Obviously this is even more rare than the football fan who likes to sit because it's damn near impossible to actually sit at a concert. So what do I do? Well, when the seats go on sale I select a section that's higher up than what's currently available and I get the very first row so I can sit and have an unimpeded view so I don't get frustrated with the guy standing up in front of me. Obviously this isn't always going to work but, as was brought up before, how about we just make the upper bowl "sitting except for big plays" and the lower bowl "standing all the time"? I don't get less enjoyment out of the rock concert or the football game simply because I'm sitting down and I still yell and support my team/fav artist sitting down so maybe I'm the exception but I just don't think that saying "sitting = hurting the team" is a legitimate complaint...
October 14th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
If you dont want to stand, sell your tickets to someone who cares. Well, hopefully to someone wearing blue who cares.
October 14th, 2010 at 11:38 AM ^
Also,
I try to stand during the whole game. and I think everyone should stand the whole time. If you are unable or unwilling, you probably shouldn't complain. If I'm asked nicely by those in my section, I will sit down. If you're going to be a dick about it...you can forget it. like the guy who said "I must not have season tickets" because I was standing. Really? because there are 20,000+ kids every Saturday with season tickets who stand all game...
October 14th, 2010 at 11:45 AM ^
If you're the only one standing in your section and won't sit down, you're a dick. If you're the only one sitting in your section and won't stand up, you're a dick.
October 14th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^
they can sit. just not complain. that makes them the dick
October 14th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
I'm headed to the Iowa game, and I plan on following what the section does. If it's standing , then so be it. I sat behind two females at the Bowling Green game which must have just graduated .They knew all the cheers of the student section, and they looked pretty good from behind as well as from the front. If I need to take a break, I'll sit during the commercial timouts.
October 14th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
Seriously, would any other fanbase even have to have this discussion?
October 14th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^
is healthy but it also presents a very interesting notion that UM should consider addressing: would it be possible to reserve sections where sitting was encouraged and others that were specifically "standing"? perhaps put the "standing" sections alongside the student section or parallel so that each endzone had a dominant, standing, loud contingent? something to consider.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:20 PM ^
I suggested it a year ago in a similar thread. I have suggested it innumerable times.
But don't expect the University or the Athletic Department to do it for you without some serious prompting. This whole issue is likely to be a huge pain in the ass for Joe Parker & co. They'd be nuts, bascially, to undertake the risk of a declared, free-for-all standing area, where they know that some patrons won't be able to see if they are not standing, and that there is an increased risk of falling, injury, etc. They'd likely have to move other, established season ticket holders around.
To set something like that up, you'd have to make it worth their while. With some enhanced Preferred Seating Donations.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
When I buy a ticket and fly up from Miami to see my school play, I stand no matter what section I'm in (I'll sit if a kid can't see over me or during timeouts and whatnot). I usually hit it off with the people around me and get them into the plays and try to persuade others to stand as well.
If you want to sit and stare at my back for 60 minutes, that's cool too. There are no rules stating I have to sit nor do they state you have to stand, it's a choice. I'll get off your lawn when you get out of my stadium!
October 14th, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
because there have been complaints. And the next time that he must visit you, it is in the company of two Ann Arbor police oficers.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:29 PM ^
I hate people.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
October 14th, 2010 at 12:37 PM ^
It's been a fun read but I think it can be boiled down simply:
1. Don't be an asshole.
2. You can be loud both sitting and standing.
3. You can "care" both sitting and standing.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:50 PM ^
This is why no one is scared to come to the Big House. Last game I went to, osu in 2007, I stood the whole time. We lost that game from the opening whistle but dammit I stood and cheered.
<br>
<br>If you want to 'watch' the game then stay home. If you want to be part of an experience and help your team win, then come to the games and cheer dammit. Get loud! At least don't be that guy that asks people to sit down.
<br>
<br>Unfortunately, I must give you a 'booooooooooo'
October 14th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
Wait...Hold on...Teams are scared to come to Michigan Stadium because someone wants to sit (along with 99% of his section)? Oh....I thought teams lost their fear because we lost to Toledo, Illinois, Purdue, MSU, App St, etc. Now I get it. It isn't something wrong with the product on the field; it's the fans who choose to sit in a section that is seated. How dare they!
You can "help your team win" whether seated or standing. You can "get loud" whether seated or standing. Just curious though, you don't "watch" the game when you're standing? How do you know what's going on?
October 14th, 2010 at 1:05 PM ^
A big reason why no one has ever been particularly frightened to play in the big house (as opposed to against a UM team, I would separate those... Ohio stadium is frightening no matter how bad OSU may be) is that its UM fans are, by and large, a bunch of yuppies who go to the game in the same state of mind they would a symphony in the park: three cabernets deep, bloated from overconsumption of various soft french cheeses and artisan meats. I don't mind that about our fan base, but it is a little ridiculous to complain about ppl standing during a college football game. Only at Michigan.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:37 PM ^
Is this Mike Valenti? Is it? Mike, I really hate your radio show. I don't care what your girlfriend likes on her pizza. I don't care what television show you hate. Oh wait, this isn't a Michigan-hating clown? Really?
C'mon man:
UM fans are, by and large, a bunch of yuppies who go to the game in the same state of mind they would a symphony in the park: three cabernets deep, bloated from overconsumption of various soft french cheeses and artisan meats.
First of all, that's a tremendously stupid statement. Secondly, my first statement was an understatement. It's true that many Michigan fans aren't inbred retards downing homemade booze and opening beer with their good tooth, but even if they were, who gives a fuck what someone wants to eat or drink?
The "complaint" is not about people standing. It's about assholes who would place themselves on an island, standing even though no one else in their section is. Cheer for your team. Eat and drink what you want. Just don't think you have a right to tell everyone around you how to watch a game. Or, better yet, if you're concerned...just make sure you sit in the student section.
And again, teams used to be scared to play in Michigan Stadium (I avoid the cheesy marketing term, "Big House") because our team brought the fear and the fans responded to that great play on the field.
October 14th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^
Dude. You seriously need some Xanax. For better or worse, we're a largely upper crust yuppie crowd. This manifests itself in various expectations for gameday decorum that are not typical in most other D-IA fanbases with traditionally good teams. I will admit that, likely, Duke or Wake Forest fans probably have a reasonable expectation of people sitting down during the game, but even at a locale steeped in tradition and eminently concerned with manners such as Clemson, Georgia, or Ole Miss (e.g. Old South schools), it is customary to stand during the game and not generally considered rude, regardless of the section one finds oneself in. Only at Michigan, of any college stadium I've ever been in, does well over half the crowd insist on staying seated (and largely mute) for all but the ~5 most important plays of the game.
My point is that this is a product of the culture at Michigan. Honestly, I dont care because when I go to a game now, I WANT to sit down and just watch it. But that doesn't mean people aren't right when they say we have the quietest, most docile crowd in the big ten, save northwestern, indiana, illinois and purdue during down years. No one has ever been scared to play at the big house... and my apologies for not meeting the snob litmus test by referring to what everyone calls "the big house" as "the big house". I don't think you could have better illustrated my point: e.g., that this is a "GET OFF MY LAWN" issue.
Other schools have feared our teams, but our venue isn't intimidating. Hell, I can remember Jimmy Clausen calling it "almost eeirly quiet" in an interview. However, teams are afraid to play in places like Autzen (UO), Neyland Stadium (UT), Griffin Stadium (UF), Tiger Stadium (LSU), Camp Randall, Beaver Stadium and Ohio Stadium regardless of the quality of the team fielded because of the rowdiness of the crowd and the noise factor. Good or bad, we do not have that kind of gameday/stadium culture. I have nothing against our wine and cheese crowd, in fact I'm a member of it whenever I go up to Ann Arbor, but to pretend like Michigan fans aren't a little over the top in their gameday decorum expectations ignores clear evidence to the contrary, such as geriatrics like us getting pissed when a younger buck has the audacity to stand up and cheer for the team. Just because I'm not going to piss on a 25 year old for being drunk and enthusiastic doesn't mean I'm not a "real" Michigan fan.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:36 PM ^
We've been known as the wine and cheese crowd well before the horrors of the last 4 years. We are the wine and cheese crowd because 75% sits on their ass the whole time and doesn't make any noise, not because we lost some terrible games in 07. Sure u can cheer sitting down, and that's fine, but don't 'poke' people that want to stand and cheer just so you can see better. Like I said if you want to watch the game then stay home. The cameras give a much better view. I go to the biggest football stadium in the country to be part of the experience. The crowd, the band, the cheers, and of course watching the game and feeling like your part of a victory or at least knowing you tried if we lose. But again, if ALL you want is to actually see the game and don't care about anything else then stay home.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:40 PM ^
there's another polarity that says "i went to this school. i'm now too old to stand for 80% of a game simply because some 24 yr old wants to. i shouldn't have to stay at home simply bc this kid wants to stand all game. this is my school too."
you act like people are trying to force you in a box of conformity. you can yell, cheer, stomp, clap and watch your team from your ass just as well as you can on your feet. as someone said before, i have no idea why people feel they HAVE to stand. the only thing that's ever easier from standing is high-fives. which you can get up to do after the play.
i'm 26 and people are making it seem like it's an old vs. young issue. it's personal preference. i don't think it's polite to expect everyone to 'accept' the fact you have the right to stand and will therefore do so at the expense of people who don't want to. it doesn't make you a better fan because you stand. it just means... your brain fired neurons that told your legs to lift you.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:51 PM ^
I guess if you really want to sit the whole game then that's cool. But I really want to stand. Honestly I stand the whole time when I watch at home too, so I guess it's just me. Anyway, no offense but I hope your never behind me next time I make it up for a game. Go Blue!
October 14th, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^
The difference you are underappreciating is the mindset that accompanies watching the game from your feet, shoulder-to-shoulder with dozens of other fans. Perhaps it's a subtle conditioning (think of other events in your life you view while seated vs while standing), but its effect is real and measurable, and inevitably fans feed off the energy of those around them. If you disagree, it may be worth your time to attend a game or two in Eugene, Oregon.
I do agree that this is not necessarily an age division. I am an older man than you, but stand and cheer with the best of them when I make it to Ann Arbor.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
I go to the biggest football stadium in the country to be part of the experience. The crowd, the band, the cheers, and of course watching the game
What does sitting (or standing) have anything to do with your stated reason for going to Michigan games? Is it not the biggest stadium if you sit? Is there no crowd when seated? Does the band only play for those standing? Is it impossible to cheer while seated? C'mon man. You listed some great reasons to go to the games, none of which have anything to do with whether you sit or stand.
I do love this doozy of stupid though.
Like I said if you want to watch the game then stay home.
Who knew that you aren't supposed to watch the game when you go to the game!!! I think I can watch the game...and be there. A-Mazing!
October 14th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^
No reason to call anyone stupid. I stand and cheer. You sit and watch. It's cool.
October 14th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^
When you tell someone to stay home because they, and everyone in their section, are seated during much of the game, and provide a highly illogical argument to support that bizarre demand...well...stupid is as stupid says. But I see you've now made a 180. Welcome to making sense. Sit or stand...yes, indeed, it is all cool.
October 14th, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^
He's saying that if you're sitting behind him and he wants to stand you can both do what you want (e.g., he's still standing and you're still pissed that you can't see). No one is saying people shouldn't be allowed to sit at the games, people just shouldn't get upset when someone else stands in front of them.
October 14th, 2010 at 5:37 PM ^
You say:
No one is saying people shouldn't be allowed to sit at the games
Yet, that is exactly what many here are saying:
I say if you want to sit down and knit then you should stay home
if ALL you want is to actually see the game and don't care about anything else then stay home
you are at a college football game not a musical, princess...Get off your ass and cheer for your team.
we should attempt to make "the norm" standing, and if there are people who find this disgusting...then they should...be forced out for those who can and will
There are plenty more, but I got tired of copy/paste. What rational people are saying is simple - don't be an asshole. Stand if your section is standing; sit if they're sitting. No biggie. All are fans.
October 14th, 2010 at 6:38 PM ^
I think what all the sitting advocates are missing is something that those of us who stand find logical. We find it louder and more exciting when the everyone is standing. We attempt to recreate that by standing for the majority of the game.
These are the times I sit down.
Timeouts
Injury delays
Change of Possession without the tv timeout
Half time, unless the band is being awesome.
The end of a blowout.
Aside from that, I feel that everything happening on the field is important. I agree with all the sitters who say they stand up for the important plays. I just have a different interpretation of what is important.
October 15th, 2010 at 10:00 AM ^
it's not cool.
October 18th, 2010 at 1:47 PM ^
Booooooooooooo!
October 14th, 2010 at 12:52 PM ^
It should be noted that for some people it is painful to stand for long periods of time. Some people have bad knees, bad backs, bad feet, or chronic arthritis. Not everyone who appears able-bodied is comfortable standing for several hours in an afternoon. This can be true for people of all ages -- not just the elderly. It's definitely worth considering.
October 14th, 2010 at 6:41 PM ^
Some people aren't comfortable sitting all afternoon.
I have piriformis syndrome. Sitting for an extended period is painful. I'm sure that people with sciatica feel the same way.
Unless you have a medical condition that requires you to sit in the handicap section, I don't think it should come into the equation. You've made a choice to come to a football game. You're going to have to walk a long distance to get there. You're going to possibly stand in several long lines. You have to climb up and down stairs. You're going to need to stand quickly to see plays at times. These are the consequences of choosing to come to a game.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:57 PM ^
are for standing.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
But then why does it have Seat on the ticket?
October 14th, 2010 at 1:30 PM ^
you drive on a parkway and park on a driveway
/nonsense
October 14th, 2010 at 1:32 PM ^
thats not a seat, that is your location to stand in the stands of the stadium
October 14th, 2010 at 1:34 PM ^
without u-m a-d s-i-t
DAVE BRANDON WANTS US TO SIT
HOLY CRAP IT'S LIKE A FREAKIN DA VINCI CODE IN THIS MUTHAAAAA
October 14th, 2010 at 6:07 PM ^
do i have to do laundry in the bleachers?
October 14th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^
double post
October 14th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^
Blueheron, you are a personification of the difference between Michigan fans and every other D-IA fan base in the country besides MAYBE Notre Dame. Who the hell wants to sit during a football game against your in state rival when your team needs a raucous crowd to get them back in the game?
October 14th, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^
Maybe if more people were standing, Denard wouldn't have thrown those interceptions.
I kid. Sorry.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^
Nobody will change their mind. People will stand up in places not the student section. Other people will yell at them. Both sides will then come to Mgoblog and TELL YOU ABOUT THIS $#@#@$! A-HOLE WHO WAS (sitting/not siting) THE ENTIRE GAME.
Then there's a big internal internets war. Nobody wins.
Older crowd/Seated: Listen, those assholes are going to stand no matter what. You can ask kindly for them to sit down, but if the don't, deal with it in a dignified manner or stop going to games.
Younger crowd/Standing: Listen, those assholes are going to want to sit down no matter what. You can ask kindly for them to stand up. If they don't, deal with it in a dignified manner (whether its sitting down or moving to the student section) and move on.
Thread Over.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
It's like politics. No one will ever change their mind. I will stand. Others sit. I won't tell them to stand if they don't tell me to sit. Easy enough
October 14th, 2010 at 1:28 PM ^
UP IN BACK!
October 14th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
that OSU gets so many tickets in A2. Because at every OSU game I have stood the entire game - everyone in the south endzone does ... and I assume in the rest of the Michigan Stadium. So its the "down in front" crowd giving up their tickets to OSU fans, because otherwise they will need to stand ?
The crowd is what gives home field advantage. You have to be LOUD ... IME those that sit also do not SCREAM ... which is what fans AT THE GAME are there to do !! No one at home is standing and screaming on a big 3rd down play ... and of course there isn't anyone blocking their view. Maybe the suites are the best option if you don't want to stand ... AT ALL. There was a guy last week actually sitting reading a fucking book during the game ... and behind him was a very happy "sit-downer" !
Rather than asking the University for a standing section ... lets make the first 2 rows of the stadium a NO STANDING area ... oh but wait - those damn football players might be in the way of your view !!!
Go Blue !
October 14th, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^
but don't start this tripe about people who sit being less of a "fan" than those who stand, and thus they're the ones giving away their tickets. My pops has been going to Michigan games for 40 years, and sitting for as long as I can remember. He lives and dies with the team and is as much a fan (whatever that really means) as anyone I know.
The guy who's sitting, reading a book is paying as little attention as the sorority girl (or dude for that matter) who's standing, hammered out of her mind and talking to her friend about what time to go to (whatever replaced) Studio 4 that night.