wile_e8

April 10th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^

I'll admit this part made me pause a little bit.

It's also how lame duck coaching staffs are created. If a majority of bag men want a particular coach out and an A.D. or president won't make a move, they'll just dry up funds.

Excuse me while I look at the recruiting fall off under Rodriguez and tug at my collar.

GoBLUinTX

April 10th, 2014 at 11:30 PM ^

three distinct fall offs over the last 10 years, though I think the first two blended together.  Maybe Carr didn't stop recruiting, maybe the money slowed around 2005 and then dried up circa 2009.  It was then turned back on after NSD 2011, only to have been slowed back down sometime last fall.

stephenrjking

April 10th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^

I have a hard time believing that any major program is completely clean. I would like to think that Michigan is "as clean as it can be," but I don't know what that means and I have no evidence about it, other than the fact that Michigan hasn't been that good and maybe maybe that's because they aren't as corrupt as a certain rival.

LSAClassOf2000

April 10th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^

"College majors like Exercise Science and General Education have long been assailed by critics as crip-course degrees, but shadow boosters see them as a vital way to perpetuate the cycle. If a player finishes out his eligibility and has no feasible future in the pros, he might return home and become a nearby high school coach. It doesn't matter if it's junior high or seven-on-seven camps; each means a new brand ambassador for the program."

As others have mentioned, there is not much if anything shocking about this, but it was a very illuminating read all the same just due to the detail. That part above, though, was something I hadn't really thought about before - it makes sense in a strange sort of way, however, that former student athletes would be the most convenient pool of "outside sales representatives" basically. 

 

Roy G. Biv

April 10th, 2014 at 12:53 PM ^

Fascinating read. Late for a meeting being so engrossed in the article. I think this is exactly how many of us pictured the deals going down. But I am surprised--impressed?--at how professional and precise these guys really are.

814 East U

April 10th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

I'm not a fan of Urban but maybe he was sick of this stuff was true. Sounds like it is way more annoying doing some of these things. I can see why coaches get worn out down there.

BobbyRizigliana

April 10th, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^

The "bonus" for not visiting a school was very telling. Seems to happen to UM a lot. Who was that RB that was supposed to visit UM last year but ended up not coming? Webb basically reported that he was on the flight but it never happened? Anyone remember the name and the school he ended up at?

93Grad

April 10th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^

attached to these stories or rumors?  I understand reporters wanting to protect their sources, but anyone involved in recruting hears these stories and yet nothing ever comes of it.  Why are people so afraid to expose this crap? 

stephenrjking

April 10th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^

In this case, if the reporter names names the story doesn't happen and he learns (and reports) nothing. All that he gets is a small smidgen of information, which he might report, which is then flatly denied. If he gets too specific he is threatened with lawsuits. Or he winds up harming his own reputation by "spreading rumors" without proper sourcing.

This reporter didn't want to go to the incredible legwork it would take to really make this a publishable story. His route was "easier," but still worthwhile.

And that is not a bash. I think reporting a real story that really named names and uncovered real corruption would be huge. It would also take almost Watergate-level reporting and effort with no guarantee of success. I don't blame the guy for reporting the way he did.

MGlobules

April 10th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

it lessens my interest in the game. If you lump this in a category of "Pervasive General Influence of Money on the Game," the whoredom involved in sneaking State Farm ads into the stadium should be included, too. . . Ads, naming rights, TV rights--all increase the stakes and compound the pressure to buy athletes. . . and athletes continue to see too little of the return. (To me the "they're already being paid" argument holds little water--that's why the NLRB sees them as employees; the question is whether they have a right to bargain collectively, and why shouldn't they?) The way that both education and 95% of schools are also elbowed off the path. . . 

814 East U

April 10th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^

Honestly though so what if OSU does this? I bet a lot of fans would take the winning if UofM was to do a little more of this as long as its never known publically. I have no feeling either way. I am at the point where college athletics hasn't been collegiate in a long time so I wouldn't mind some more winning. Thinking big programs are 100% clean is just naive.

I don't think Michigan dishes out thousands of dollars, but I would bet some people got some interviews/jobs because their son/nephew/grandson is a UofM athlete.

Gucci Mane

April 10th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

I wonder how well these tactics work on well educated two parent homes ? I had a sibling being recruited (albeit not a sport that matter) but illegal benefits were offered and it just made my whole family cross that program right off the list.

Seth

April 10th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

Among many interesting tidbits, one near the top caught me the hardest: even if they did start paying the players, this shit would go on, because they're so much better at it than any university is equipped to be.

We've been under the assumption that if you could pay players, say, a % of their jersey sales, Michigan wins because our fans can buy so many more jerseys. But these guys figured out a player's dad needed his tractor fixed, and got the tractor fixed. How the hell do you compete with that?

stephenrjking

April 10th, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^

I actually haven't held that assumption. A stipend is a nice way to cover the "real costs" of attendance, and perhaps it helps take care of some of the corrupt "$50 handshakes" around the edges that can get kids into, say, gambling problems. 

But this stuff can and will still happen. There's a lot of cash available. The only way this gets interdicted (and I am not advocating this move) is to allow players to make as much money outside of the sport as they want, out of endorsements and such. That would introduce new semi-legitimate ways to funnel money to players, and a system of guaranteed endorsement deals and soft jobs would pop up. In that system, Michigan and Michigan State players could expect dealership and corporate sponsorships from Ford and GM and other such arrangements, while every Oregon player would become a paid Nike spokesman. 

Snake Eyes

April 10th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^

The description of the attempted tape recorded "sting" by a rival and some recruit seems like BS to me.  You're telling me some recruit who is good enough to warrant a $70k payment for signing is willing to tape record himself asking for money to signe with a school?

I have a feeling that this reporter found someone that probably is shady and provides improper benefits, but the "bag man" started to like the sound of his own voice and started making shit up.

MadMatt

April 10th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^

Two quotes from the article perfectly capture why this is such a hard issue.  On the one hand,

"It's 2014. Who's left to tell that would get angry? Who's left that would object to seeing these kids getting some money?"

However, on the other hand,

 "If we could take a vote for these kids to make a real salary every season, I would vote for it. $40,000 or something. Goes back to mama, buys them a car, lets them go live like normal people after they work their asses off for us. But let's be honest, that ain't gonna stop all this. If everyone gets $40,000, someone would still be trying to give 'em 40 extra on the side."

It seems to me there is no reasonable moral objection to every member of a football team that puts 100K+ fannies in the seats for home games getting a scholarship plus $40K/year.  But, here are the practical concerns with that:

(1) Title IX: can the University afford to give every scholarship athlete another $40k/year?  If you think you can get away with paying only the male, revenue sports athletes an extra $40K, you are not being realistic.  Personally, I think we could come up with a stipend that you can give to all the scholarship athletes that won't force Universities to drop every men's sport that isn't basketball or football.  But, this will be a lot more expensive that the kind of money the bagmen are tossing around.

(2) As the bagman points out, that will not stop people from pursuing an extra $40 under the table.  We should temper our expectations that a player stipend will level the playing field between the cheaters and the non-cheaters.

maizenbluenc

April 10th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^

you guys really should refrain from commenting holier than thou on the SB Nation article. Watch the Fab Five 30 for 30, and google how Woodson allegedly took over ten thousand from an agent while still eligible ... we have our own dirt (or suggestions of it) whether we like it or not.

I believe (hope) most schools in the B1G try to do the right thing and chase down the off books characters. That doesn't mean they don't exist, and I am guessing the Robin Hood-like activity that goes on with athletic kids on poor side of town has a different ethos: giving someone's mom or sister a job, or shoes, or money to go out in exchange for staying off the streets while continuing to participate in sports is considered a good thing.

While we are at it - we hired Jalen Rose's HS coach when Jalen committed - so we can't wag fingers at State either.

If you come at it from a "my opinion is this type of thing shouldn't happen" - then OK. I your approach is the SEC cheats and we are above that kind of thing - people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ...

While we're at it - just with Detroit's mayors and Chicago's politics as examples, I don't think the Midwest has any higher moral ground than the South anyway.

Seth

April 23rd, 2014 at 9:18 PM ^

I have a vague memory of the details only because I was on the Michigan Daily when the allegation came out. In 2001 they were investigating a shady agent who misused players' money or something and it appeared Woodson had a relationship with him going back to summer 1997. The agent said he'd loaned Woodson $10k or $14k (the former is what the rumor always says, the latter is from my memory) after the Ohio State game that year. Woodson flatly denied it.

The university investigated and found nothing and since this was the same athletic department then in the middle of committing seppuku over Ed Martin that was good enough for most. I didn't know the Daily reporter who covered it at the time so I didn't know details. Mostly I remember being asked my opinion of it by Heather Kamins, then news editor, future EIC, because I was always "the guy who likes sports" guy in the room.