can't talk......too busy stealing your secrets.........
Scrimmage Open Thread
there's that sarcastic or joke-filled-post smiley. You're gonna need it, though. Be ready.
edit: forgot my "=)"
IRISH KNOWS WE'RE GOING TO RUN THE SPREAD!
Some guy on twitter @stoney16 is at the game and giving updates. He seems like he went into today very down on the team, so take that into account...
His lack of spaces and capitalization after a period will be the death of me.
it's mike stone formerly of Stoney and Wojo. He's a jackass, has nothing positive to say about UM on the radio
seriously 97.1 never has anything good to say about U-M.
Except for Doug Karsch who hosts Michigan-affliliated radio shows. I wouldn't put the whole station down. Just turn it off at 2pm when Karsch and Anderson go off air.
That's what I always thought, too. I worked as an intern at Fox 2 in Detroit (sports department) back in undergrad, and had similar sentiments. I spoke with his roommate from MSU, who was a producer at the time for one of the Detroit radio stations, and he told me that Karsch grew up in Ann Arbor, was a lifelong Blue fan, applied to U of M and didn't get in, so he went to State, but always still rooted for Michigan and was never an MSU fan, which got him som flack in EL. Apparently, his fandom is legit, and he always wanted to go into broadcasting, and even though M doesn't have a journalism program outside of communications, he still wanted to go. He just couldn't get in.
Doug was on WTKA for years before moving to 97.1 and was very good and positive towards Michigan well before he did any Michigan stuff for pay. Stoney is ok but much better when he had Wojo for balance.
Doug is the only one I can listen to without wanting to punch the radio on that station. He's fair and usually pretty pro-M. The rest are just pathetic - Sharp too on 1130 the fan. He was going off again on Friday...saying Coach Rod invented the wingless helmets to create a diversion for all the bad stuff going on.....SERIOUSLY? What an idiot...
anyway - Stoney needs to just shut-up, especially today. Now we all have to wonder what's up with White?
Go to the school he loved after Michigan, Maryland, or pocket the out of state tuition difference and just go to State. And he kept the money. He used to have his friends and roommate from MSU call in, and they'd jazz each other. He lives in the area, and regularly plays hockey around here.
I used to listen to him on WTKA circa 1996 and 1997. He was, and is, very pro-Michigan. He routinely joked about how he went to State, but was a lifelong Michigan fan. One time he called his then-girlfriend (a Sparty) and challenged her to bet on the game without telling her that she was on the air. Her profanity laced response was heard by all as WTKA didn't have a delay then. Ahh, the good old days!
If anything, I think 97.1 has him tune down his Michigan fandom. I also think that he tries to be more professionally objective than some others on that station.
My rule for 97.1 - if they talk college football after 2:00, change the station.
That was classic local radio. I laughed my ass off that day.
For many shows later. That was good stuff.
if they talk college football after 2:00, change the station.
Unless after an MSU loss, then we get to hear Valenti flip out (again), which is sort of amusing.
For those of you who don't have a spare ten minutes, here it is condensed into about 30 seconds:
You do know that both Anderson, Valenti, and Caputo are Spartans as well? Explains a lot right there.
I like Scott Anderson despite his background. He says he does not like U of M but I have found him to be balanced. He is like many of the guys from MSU I know in college, he wanted his team to win but was not a complete ass like Valenti. The problem with Caputo is that he is just not very bright.
Dennis Fithian was at WTKA and I liked him there until he got the axe.
I wish they'd bring Fithian back. The "Different bad host every day" formula does not work well for the the WTKA afternoon show.
Word. Between Defran and those two guys who spend three hours interrupting, talking over, and kvetching at each other like two old women, afternoons on that station just aren't worth much.
Of their old morning shows, DeFran with Steve Clarke was the best one they had. But that was when I thought they were being level headed (though I think Clarke still is...the unsung hero of WTKA historically) when everyone was out for Lloyd's blood, but really he wasn't being level headed, but just bias in the other way. Because to me what makes sense is to not fire Lloyd after every loss, and not to fire Rich after 2 years. But everyone seems to have to be in opposite corners.
When was the last time you listened to Fithian? i've been listening to him (with Caputo on 97.1) over the summer and its clear to me that he has joined the anti-RichRod bandwagon.
I have caught a bit of that, and was a bit sad that Dennis has been turned.
Dennis was pretty close with the previous staff, so it's not completely unexpected for him to be anti-RR.
He's still pro-Michigan, and he was on the bandwagon full steam ahead when we were 4-0 last year.
Like most, winning cures all, and would Fithian.
I don't know what to make of Fithian these days. I give him some slack because I just can't imagine working with such a huge asshat as Caputo.
Gator is what you'd expect and want from an MSU fan. He's bias, he's no fan of Michigan, but he's level headed and not inflammatory. He doesn't like his arch-rival. He shouldn't, he went to State. But he's not a douche about it, and really, that's the way to have balance and a good show. Gator I could have a beer with, and we could razz each other. Valenti I'd just get into a big argument with, because he wouldn't be able to hang up on me in person.
his wife is a UofM grad
Stoney is in general at least neutral to UM, and I may be off, but I am pretty sure I remember him saying he has season tickets to Michigan football. I doubt he buys season tickets just to sit there and hate on the team. If I was going to comment on his college football leanings in any direction I would say he is anti-ND, that is the one thing I remember about his commentary in the past.
And lord knows I dont have a problem with anyone hating on ND, hehe
Gardner took the first snap, denard second. Probably nothing to that. Rogers opposite Floyd on D. The offense looks good, bit a handful of fumbles so far.
would like to think that the fumbles are nothing to worry about at this stage - but on the other hand, 2008 and 2009.
Depends on the manner of the fumbles, I would think. More horror punt returning? Or Center/QB exchange? If it was RB's/WR's I wouldn't be as worried as that can be fixed or "replaced" if you will.
First fumble was a bad exchange between QB and RB. Second fumble was caused by a big hit by Patterson on Smith. I didn't know that 2 was a "handful," but 2 there were.
I think I had a teacher named Peter Klima back in like 4th grade... can't remember if that was his first name. Strange.
A hockey fan, eh?
Edit: IIRC, it was Petr though...
Denard was with the 1s to begin but Devin took the first snap because the 1st team defense went against 2nd team offense at the beginning.
Just had a GREAT keeper for. 45 yard TD.
it was due to immortal speed and not shoddy linebacker play.
Was it a nobody is allowed to hit the QBs TD, or was it an actual touchdown?
Denard has apparently been impressive... I thought cell phones were not allowed but apparently I was wrong.
the corners looking? Which guys are getting the most snaps at the corner?
Thanks for the updates Mr. Klima
Drove by Ann Arbor about 5 hours ago, should have just pulled on in. Nothing but rain up here in the great north since I arrived a little bit ago.
I can think of one place I'd rather be.
Both by Tate. He overthrew one and penalty called on other. Hard to tell about DBs. The D is doing okay against the run, but a lot of middle sidelines passes going for 5-10 yards
His handle is not supposed to be a tribute to the hockey player. I've seen him mention a couple of times that Peter is his name. No relation to the hockey player.
One of the deep balls hit Jerald Robinson in the head.. should have been a TD
Jerald Robinson is another of the blue helmet crew. Saw him, Tate, and Austin White on the Big Ten Network Preview.
Don't worry—if we have a good season, Stone will break both legs, an arm, and his scrawny little sportswriter neck jumping on the bandwagon.
... about Stoney:
I stand corrected. Looks like he's really let himself go after losing his gig with Wojo. Wearing those '70s-era shorts doesn't help things, either. Ghastly.
Damn Stoney blew up. Stoney is a nice guy and fairly impartial being from Philly and all. I've always thought Stoney was one of the best on sports talk.
Marvin robinson on Gardner. Bad idea to throw it.
By denard was a legit running TD. Looks like the main CBs have been 12, 18, 14, 24 and 23. Denard just had a nice 20 yard completition.
So Floyd, Rodgers, Jones, Christian, and Floyd Simmons for those still learning numbers.
Besides knowing who was playing CB, did any of them look good, or at least not bad?
Rogers is in the mix.. would be nice to have an upperclassman step it up in this situation.
edit: too quick, so I'll change what I had to say...
Teric Jones and Floyd Simmons are both listed as safeties, FWIW. Possible conversion sans Woolfolk
RR just said the other day that it would only be defensive guys getting moved around... I'm not saying you're wrong, but I definitely remember him saying that.
Both of those guys are defensive guys already. Jone splayed CB last year and was listed as a safety this year. He's just being moved back to corner.
So no offensive guys are moving........
Simmons was not playing corner; he was bandit or spur; can't actually remember which.
what we are hearing here it sounds like shoelace is the man to beat and he has had himself a heck of a day.
We have three good quarterbacks.
...he hoped people wouldn't be giving out all their information at the scrimmage today?
I'd be much more worried if people were giving out the plays ran instead of the players playing.
Just that next time there's an OUTRAGE: WHO WOULD LEAK THAT?!?!....remember Rich specifically asked for it not to happen....and those that are most loyal created a whole thread about it. Glass Houses.
I agree guys there shouldn't discuss plays and formations, but there is no harm in saying Denard ran for a TD or Rogers was playing CB
I'm sure Rich is smart enough to treat it like a spring game, not really showing anything (which is why he's probably pissed wasting a practice doing this). And play by play isn't that bad.
But in theory, analysis like "Denard looked so much better than Tate, he got all the reps, he's obviously the starter" kind of removes the image of what Rich is trying to do...make it look like it's wide open. While Lloyd used to wait all the time to announce to keep the first team guessing, really, all his players played the same way, so it didn't matter that much. There's a real tactical distinction in preparing for Denard or Tate, because they run the same system, but their abilities are very different. So, making U-Conn prepare for both IS a tactical advantage which wastes their time.
But do I think it's going to have a big effect? No.
An opposing coach could just get the same info by having an intern join one of the pay sites. If you don't know Denard's probably going to start you haven't been paying attention.
The fumbles worry me, unless they were caused by big hits from the defense. Can someone shed some light on that?
Bad handoff exchange from Devin to Shaw on one, the other was a big hit on Vincent Smith.
You may be right, and I agree with that conjecture, but we still need to wait to get into the season a bit to say X is too good not be the starter. The coaches will play the guys that will make Michigan win.
This is typical fan talk. You need a qb who can execute the offense, read defenses, take care of the ball, pass accurately, improvise when the play breaks down. Denard may be that but if he underthrows the bubble screen on 1st down and gets 2 yds instead of 8 then misreads the defense on 2nd down and leaves us 3rd and 9 the d will spy him and he'll get nothing when he bails and runs and all the electricity will result in a punt.
teams keyed on Denard's running ability all of last year, yet he still averaged 5 yards a carry, I wouldn't worry about him picking up first downs, whether it be from the pocket or on the run, like some say, if he's just an "adequate passer" his running threat moves up exponentially. It's been cited that RR's offense at WVU worked best when it was two parts run and one part pass, and with a skilled runner like DR, I doubt you're throwing a bubble screen on first down. Try read option 5+ yards, quick slant to Roundtree, first down, then it's Denard to the house...or something along those lines.
I'm bullish on Denard, but I'm not sure if his stats from last season really tell us much. Yes, he averaged 5.1 yards per carry on the season, but over half his yards came against the three worst teams on our schedule (WMU, EMU and Del St.). In those three games he rushed 20 times for 188 yards (9.4 ypc). Against the other nine opponents he rushed 49 times for 163 yards (3.3 ypc). What this tells me is that even a crazy-fast guy like him needs to be able to pass to keep defenses honest.
I can't wait to see Denard play. I just hope that he wins the job from Day 1. I think he'll be the starter by the end of the season anyway, so I'd rather have him get as many snaps as possible against the scrub OOC games. Hopefully Tate is OK with that, his family history doesn't bode well for him accepting the backup role though.
He has to throw the ball. Tate was, is, and always will be the better thrower. To Me that always trumps the better runner at the qb position but maybe thats just me.
Your argument is invalid.
Is he backing up Chad Henne this year?
but only because the Miami Dolphins don't run the zone read.
Yeah, but that's one guy and he's an awesome passer. Trepps said the better passer is always the better quarterback. Pat White wasn't a great passer, but he was a great college quarterback.
Pat White Freaky Friday style every time he goes to throw.
You saw Freaky Friday?
My initial response may have been on the douchie side, and for that I'm sorry. I blame the 5 Oberons. From everything I've read, witnessed and dreamed, DR seems to have greatly improved his passing (at least enough to keep D's honest). I think this fact, when factored in with his dynamic running ability, make him a great weapon to use in RR's spread as a QB. To just "go with the guy who's the better passer" without taking into account what DR brings to the table I thought was wrong.
It doesn't really matter though. I'm not Rich Rodriguez and it's not my decision. I'm just happy we're picking nits about which QB is better as opposed to which QB has fewer problems.
"It doesn't really matter though. I'm not Rich Rodriguez and it's not my decision. I'm just happy we're picking nits about which QB is better as opposed to which QB has fewer problems."
It's a good problem to have, that's for sure.
i understand what your point is, but tate did have a 40 yd TD run against ND last year. juked the LB out of his shoes. i'm just hopeful that DRob has improved so much that we have 2 very competent QBs now.
His point was that Tate is incompetent, but merely that Denard is probably better suited for this style of offense because of all of his assets. I personally think that we can win with either of the two. However if DR's passing is as most have advertised, his running ability makes him the most dangerous of the two.
Wrong thread, meant the "RichRod Rumors" thread...
Any ban on texts about the scrimmage. I know photos were banned. I didn't mention any plays, but if this is aprpblem at all, MODS PLEASE DELETE
strategy and play breakdowns are the likely concerns, not "oh he just scored." pictures are another thing bc they capture formations, especially with the defense.
According to stoney
I heard that Austin white quit team or was booted
He started out on WTKA back in the mid-90s, and back then (as now with Webb & Co) provided the absolute best in UM football coverage of anyone in Detroit-area broadcast sports media. He made no attempt to hide the fact that he went to MSU, but his loyalty to UM was absolutely clear even back then.
RR did say he was going to keep things pretty vanilla, and maybe he meant on both sides of the ball. That's what I'm telling myself... I think we're looking at a lot of 42-39 games this year. It'll be "exciting."
As long as it's 2009 UM-ND exciting, and not 2009 UM-MSU exciting, I think I am ok with that.
As long as we improve enough from last year to turn those close losses into close victories, I'm completely fine with it for 2010.
Just finish with a 8-5 or 7-6 ish record, keep your job, and get ready to unleash hell in 2011 with all that experience on offense. Please, for the love of all things maize and blue, rich, please.
Now that we seem to have a 3rd servicable QB, I still wouldn't mind seeing Denard in the slot on occasion. Double passes from the slot to WRs who 'miss' their blocks could be fun.
I have ever seen so many people give up/jump off the bandwagon as fast as some people have with Tate. I realize that Denard is an athletic specimen, but Tate showed some serious passing skills (skills I can't imagine Denard has yet), not to mention I thought he showed some guts on numerous occasions. The team's inability to get to a bowl was due to the defense, not Tate. Obviously, he has had an "interesting" off-season, but the kid is 20 - I think it is way too early to write-off his ability to help the team in the coming years.
A question to anyone who was there - did Denard pass the ball well beyond short range? Did Tate look anything like he did at the beginning of last year?
I do think it's too early to give up on him. I remember a guy who admitted that he played four years at Michigan without putting in the amount of committment it takes to be a champion, but decided to come back for a fifth year. I think it worked out pretty well for both him and the team, and I think you may have heard of him: Brian Griese.
We heard all this same stuff last year. How the QB was a real battle. And, we all know what happened. Denard just didn't play very much because he wasn't very productive.
BTW, RR said the QBs would NOT be live for the scrimmage. So, that means it is hard to tell about running plays because the D is not going full tilt at the QB.
Remember that fake insider last year who kept guaranteeing that Nick Sheridan would start? I don't miss him either.
I actually haven't heard hardly anyone write off Forcier. But I also haven't heard anyone say Forcier looks better than Denard since last Fall. Of course we won't know if Denard's improvement is the real deal for another two weeks, but his approbations have been consistent since the start of spring camp. Just because people think (or hope) he is going to start vs. UCONN doesn't mean people are writing off Tate.
I agree but let us not forget the heart Tate showed on field last year.
"Heart" doesn't matter if you haven't had the will to prepare.
and I'll show you someone who is ready for a beating...
One of the best lines from Million Dollar Baby. Seriously though, Tate will eliminate what attitude issues he may have soon (if he hasn't already) and he will compete for playing time. His heart will be backed up with preparation.
let's not cannonize DRob yet as the best runner ever at UM. UM had plenty of great running QBs in the past. you must be too young to remember. i do, however, like what i'm hearing though.
True too but I don't remember any of them being that fast or able to make DRob's moves. He is like genetically morphing Tyrone Wheatley with a great throwing arm. If Drob has better passing than last year, he's going to be pigskin death to the opposition. And if he's not and Tate steps into the starting position, he's also faster and a better runner than our previous running QB's but unlike QB's like Demetrius Brown, this kid can throw.
Tyrone Wheatley was 6'1", 235
Denard is listed at 6'0", 193.
And while I love his running ability . . . we've had some great ones. All of Bo's QBs in the '70s were terrific runners.
pic taken by @aceanbender at scrimmage while he was smoking and drinking from the water bottle that he brought into the stadium:
Thats my photo. What the hell? Acebender you bastard, you stole my photo off of Twitter. @MichiganStudent.
This is actually quite comical to me...oh well
I look forward to the season. Michigan will crush all.
Tate is seasoned and has seen so much that Denard hasn't. Plus he can run and throw. Don't count him out.
...that means he has earned it. And that would be great. The competition will make all three better. Last year, Forcier had little or no competition (Sheridan? Please...). Pushing Tate will make him better, and vice versa....which is good for everyone involved.
That is a point that can't be stressed enough about not only Tate but the rest of the team. Because Rodriguez came in and declared the whole thing open for whoever earned it in open competition, the level of individual improvement from year to year is hard to quantify.
Frankly, most programs don't operate the way Rodriguez operates his. He counts on guys taking quantum leaps throughout their time in the program because of the existence of the ceaseless pressure to compete.
I said it before and know I won't get snickered at on this blog of the unbelievably wise and learned: it is the system and method of operation used by Pete Carroll at USC. The sort of improvements it creates in individual players are often hard to predict.
So only a fool would look at the roster and simply say that it can't achieve a certan win total.
I am excited for a new season and I am tired of hearing the hoopla over Tate. Last year was last year he had four good games. I'm tired of hearing the injury report on him obviously his injury wasnt bad enough for him not to play so in my opinion its an excuse for poor play. Excuses get coaches fired. Now if Tate performs well and gets the job im all in but until that happens he is still unproven. four games hardly classifies you as the next year starter. I am glad to see him having to work hard this should be a lesson to all athletes and kids who have a sense of entitlement. At some points he behaved immaturely and didnt go to class and argued with the coach he got away with it because he was the only option. Year two rolls around we have depth now the coaches dont have to put up with your attitude because your replaceable. this is a humbling lesson for him. im excited to see him progress im excited for denard and devin
A little advice for you, if you don't mind my sayin' ....
This subject has been beaten to a bloody pulp on this site for the past year, and longer. But just like Dracula, (dead and loving it!) unless it gets a stake in the heart, it keeps coming back.
Do yourself a favor, and spend some time searching the archives, (note there is a very good search function) for Brian's UFRs from the games last year. You'll note that not only was Tate's shoulder injury important to his throwing accuracy, it was probably the #2 most critical injury last season, (#1 was the loss of Molk at Center). This is also the kid, by the way, who played his heart out at MSU and almost single-handedly gave us a chance to win at the end. Sure, he threw the interception in overtime, but it was through his efforts that we even got that close.
There is no evidence that Tate has a sense of entitlement. What "evidence" we have is purely circumstantial. Why was he not a gym rat this summer? Perhaps he had classes, other injuries, illness, etc. You don't know, and neither do I.
Finally, no one on this team is "replaceable", least of all a returning starter who last year, as a true freshman, arguably gave Coach Rod his best win at Michigan.
true indeed that this subject has been drawn out for far too long I dont need a search engine or archive to see that I also dont need sarcasm from a complete stranger who feels witty behind his computer. dont mean to assume but thats the way your response reads. The only reason why I brought up the issue was in general response to comments made about the scrimmage and excuses that are everywhere. I am not new to this blog site I just choose not to blog. the issue of entitlement wow you must not work or deal with kids now a days. no evidence hmm lets take a look at it per reports not going to class hmm not showing up for voluntary workouts thinking he is still going to be the man hmmm if that isn't entitlement than im not sure what is. He doesnt have to be a "gym rat" as you put it but he does have to be dedicated just like the rest of his team. according to how you come off practice and workouts are not important if thats the case i vote allen iverson next president "practice". There where other key injuries that in my opinion where bigger than Tates lets see Brandon Minor Carlos Brown because we had no running game Tate was exposed a bit more. Yes everyone is replaceable this is competetive sports my friend thats why we recruit year in and year out. Finally I applaud Tates toughness for sticking it out but poor play is poor play point blank period and I am sorry but Notre Dame was not that big of a win on the national level. it was a big win against a rival but in the grand scheme of things they where'nt a very good team. lets just be honest. for the results that we got the last 8 games we where better off playing sheridan or robinson we would have got the same results which is losses. Im sorry but a torn acl is way different then a partially torn labrum. one is debilitating the other nagging. I dont want to argue with anyone over my opinion besides im rooting for the same team. Didnt mean to be sarcastic "I" felt that your response was a bit condescending.
You've come to the wrong place.
And if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, brush up on caps, paragraphs, and spelling. Otherwise you're going to earn the condescension.
Certainly your right my fine fellow. I don't care if my opinion is challenged thats perfectly fine. Its one thing to challenge but its another to be condescending. By the way who cares if my caps aren't right and my paragraphs are fragmented my points are valid. I'm glad journalism is your strong point and M.L.S style writing. you can be the worlds best writer but have no knowledge of football. so please don't base credibility on grammar I am sure your better than that. My point is I don't care who you are condescending is not acceptable.
If you can't write, no one will take your knowledge of football seriously. And a little snark is meant in jest around here. Probably safe to get used to it.
Tate's not proven because he only played well 4 games, (nevermind that pesky shoulder injury, not possibly a factor for a quarterback...) but his struggling backup who looks kinda good in the spring game and practice, and a true freshman are certainly much better options.
I don't think Forcier's skillset really shows thru in practice. Give him some reps at live game speed and I won't be surprised if he wins he starting job back from Denard after a couple games. And I still think Gardner redshirts. Just sayin...
I think you are vastly undervaluing the importance to this offense of making the proper reads on the zone read. The quarterback who does that better should start, no matter which one is the better passer.
Its obvious thatTate is your prefered starter no matter what facts or stats that are presented you feel the way you feel and im fine with that. However you play how you practice. sunday through Fridays are where champions are made where film is watched. If Tate doesnt perfrom well in practice honestly how do you expect him to take us to a national title . im fine with who ever starts I just expect a little more I dont know about you but I want those young men to win im tired of excuses. just it remember its rare for anyone to go through an entire season without getting banged up but champions make it happen. thats just the way I feel
stoney is a uofm guy. loves boseason ticket holder...enough of the media hates uofm on here. yes hes on the ticket now but wdfn folded not his fault.
The more i see of Josh, the more i get excited. This kid has a solid head on his shoulders.
But this may be a more appropriate place:
In the video, the only guy I saw making a serious attempt to conceal his handoffs was Forcier. This is something that has been missing BIG TIME from the offense. I don't care how fast you are as a QB, if it's obvious EVERY TIME that you've kept the ball instead of handing it off, you're not going to have a ton of success.
Did anybody notice if either of the other QB's were trying to conceal at all?