This week's scouting report is on Placer (CA) Placer defensive tackle Eddie Vanderdoes. There aren't many defensive tackles in this class who are as athletic as Vanderdoes (although Montravius Adams comes to mind), but he needs a lot of work on technique. Right now he's basically just a big, fast dude out there tossing smaller guys around. He could be one of those guys who's a first or second round pick in a few years, or he might be one of those guys who never learns proper technique and gets buried on the depth chart somewhere.
Scouting Report: Eddie Vanderdoes
In your estimation, how does he compare with Poggi? Who do you think would be the best fit for U-M at this point?
I'm partial to Poggi because he's already got good technique, and because of that, I think he could play early. We're a little short on talent at DT aside from Pipkins, so playing early is important to me.
What is playing early to you? True freshman, redshirt freshman, sophmore? The reason I ask is because I saw one site (Rivals maybe?) that had Poggi listed at 250 lbs. Wouldn't he need to be at 270 or above to see playing time, or do I not know what I'm talking about? I assumed he would need a couple years to bulk up.
More recently I heard that Poggi is up around 265. If that's true, then he should be able to get up to 280+ within the next 16 months. But when I talk about playing early, I mean 2013 or 2014 (not necessarily his true freshman season).
Who looks best at the nose guard position..Magnus? It doesn't seem Poggi or Vanderdoes would fit the position, so who is the best option at this point that we have a decent shot at?
I don't really know what the coaches want out of the nose guard position at this point. It's a little unclear whether they want a stout guy who can hold the point of attack (which would lean toward Poggi) or a monstrous guy who can be a playmaker (Vanderdoes). So far the coaches have chosen Mike Martin (6'2", 300 lbs.) and William Campbell (6'5", 320 lbs.) for that position, so I can't figure out what they're trending toward.
The great nose tackles at Michigan (in my mind) have always been the Mike Martin/William Carr type of guys, shorter and totally unwilling to get blown off the ball. Poggi looks to fit that mold a little better. I see guys like Campbell and Vanderdoes having more problems at the point of attack.
Could you give me a run down of your top 5 players offer or no offer that you would like to see the wolverines take for nose in 2013?
PLEASE and THANK YOU
1. Henry Poggi
2. Montravius Adams
3. Eddie Vanderdoes
4. Lowell Lotulelei
5. Justin Manning
He's long shot I know, but I'd be curious if you've looked at him yet
I haven't looked at him in depth, but he's less of an explosive guy and more of a gap plugger, in my opinion. He's a good prospect, but a particularly exciting one.
I also really doubt he comes to Michigan. He seems destined for the southern part of the country.
Any of these guys you feel we're in particularly good position for? Poggi is well documented, but the rest seem to often fly below the board's collective radar.
We have a good shot at Poggi, a bit of a shot at Vanderdoes, and probably no shot at the others. Lotulelei might be interested if we offer...
Magnus, did you see Dawson's tweets yesterday? I guess he reads your blog...
No, I didn't see his tweets. We'll see when he gets to campus and during his senior year. I will admit that he looks more athletic in camp film than he did in game film, but camps don't mean much for linemen, in my opinion.
For the record, I guess I am one of the few that actually appreciate your evaluations, especially for linemen and their technique. It appears to me that many sites simply look at measurables and "production" but really don't explain the strenghts and weaknesses of the technique. And it's reasonable that many players have both as lineman are often difficult to project. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. There are some people who agree with you, but the dissenters are often more vocal.
I appreciate your evaluations, too. Given that game film is often a little bit outdated (if a prospect has worked on his technique in camps through the off-season), when someone like Dawson shows excellent hand- and footwork technique during camps I would think this gives cause for increased optimism, no?
I'm asking, not challenging here. I would expect that a camp performance, going up against top class opposition working on pretty pure technique, would give an excellent indication of relative potential. Sure, if the player is undersized and is just confirming what you see on film, then you can't overstate it, but someone like Dawson, who was supposed to be slightly under-athletic (if that's a word) proving he can outmove and outmaneuvre top defensive linemen, then I'm certanly getting more excited about him as a starting guard.
Some guys look great in pads. Some don't. Some kids look great without pads. Some don't. When you don't have helmets or shoulder pads, when the defensive ends are going after a stationary target, when the offensive linemen aren't working on combo blocks or picking up blitzes, it's just really hard to tell.
When an offensive tackle is pass blocking and the defensive lineman is pass rushing only, that's not a real game situation. And run blocking is much more important for a team like Michigan, but that's a very difficult thing to simulate in a camp setting when guys aren't wearing any equipment except maybe a mouth piece.
I think you can learn quite a bit about cornerbacks in a camp setting, but that's really the only position where I think evaluations can be helpful. If a cornerback can stick with receivers on a wide-open field when the receiver can run virtually any route he wants to, that's pretty good news.
Owned, Nice "evaluation" bud lol
How was I "owned" again? It seems to me that the only way my comments will be proven or disproven is whether he actually pans out or not, and we won't know that for another several years.
You can evaluate all of the camp/game film you want right now, but that doesn't mean a thing until he is in college playing with the big boys
Is a bit more optimisitc in one way: I am more confidant that he reaches his ceiling than you are. I see his career going something like Michael Brockers, though with more pass rush ability and a little less in terms of run defense. I really love me some Vanderdoes, though. He's a candidate for my "Prospect I irrationally love award" should we get him. For the record, Blake Bars and Brennan Beyer were the winners the last two years.
Unless you are on Brady Hoke's staff....your evaluations, especially when negative, do more harm than good. These kids are recruited for a reason and will ALL pan out if the staff does their job. Just like athletes have to be careful what they "tweet" and "post", fans need to do the same. We already experienced this craps with tulley-tillman and now Dawson. When is it going to stop? Everybody is tryin g to be a goddamned Mel Kiper....smh
I clearly don't care about your opinion. You're free to give it. But it won't change anything.
Our recruits won't read into your evaluations and "change" their opinions of Michigan and the fanbase. Not wise to bash kids before they sign. The staff would tell you that. You obviously don't care and are in this for different reasons. Just be excited that top talent wants to come to your school.
Wow, dude. I'm pretty sure these kids can handle criticism. I'm sure their coach tells them regularly what they need to work on. If they want to play professional sports, they'd definitely better learn to handle people commenting on their skill set. Maybe you're afraid of criticism, but I think these kids can handle it. Dawson for one certainly seems to have taken it as a prove-him-wrong thing if he was compelled to tweet about it. If the kids are really that thin-skinned, do we want them anyway?
They will all pan out ff this staff does their job? That's what we like to call a generalization, one just disproved by Chris Rock. Football is also about personal talent, effort, and character, all of which are about personal accountability. If you fail in life, is it because your boss, the government, your family didn't do enough to help you succeed? That line of thought will get you in a lot of trouble.
As people have said before, it's Magnus' blog and he gets to say whatever he wants because this is Amurica. If you want overwhelmingly positive evals that all say the prospect needs to work on pad level, there is a buffet of recruiting websites devoted to sunshine and butterflies and not hurting anyone's feelings for $7.95 a month.
Sure some kids might make bad decisions hut ultimately as coaches you recruit who you want. You implement your scheme with players you deem effective. If kids don't pan out its not because they suck at football a lot of the time. If they sucked they wouldn't be recruited. It's not a personal attack on Magnus. You guys can defend the blog all you want....fact is it pisses off recruits and that is counter productive. Fact. You can neg this all you want and flamebait and whatever else. Keep pissing off recruits. It will bite the University in the ass eventually.
First, anyone who is going to play college football at the Division 1 level doesn't suck, it's about levels of good at that point. But a lot of recruiting and switching from 1 level to another is about projection. Coaches look at a player and it's about what they see in a player. Can we take so-and-so from Point A to Point B, does he have the foundation, build, and skills necessary. There are only so many ZOMG players that all coaches want because they are that much surer that the player can make the jump quickly and effectively. The rest need varying degrees of work.
And the coaches do their best to land whatever guys they can. There are maybe 50 Universities that have a ton to offer a prospect and you're not going to win every battle. You do the best you can to land your plan A guys and then you move on to the plan B or even C or D guys, and guess what. That plan B guy might not be nearly as good. He might be a huge project. It's all just opinions, and it's fun. And if you want to talk about Dawson and Tilman, both are still on board and both said it will just motivate them more. They chose the University for the education, coaches, and depth chart. I think you overestimate Magnus' power.
We just don't need Michigan blogs that are telling kids with Bama offers that he is going to get lost in the OL depth at Michigan.....because he just might go to Alabama. Plus some of these statements this guy makes are simply not true. Dawson is a beast and will play a ton of ball for Michigan.
fact is it pisses off recruits and that is counter productive. Fact.
Do you have any evidence of this "fact"? And don't point to the Dawson tweet, because Magnus' evaluation of him obviously didn't keep him from committing.
Evidence is proven by multiple Michigan commits directly addressing this guy's blog statements. You don't want to wait until a kid decommits before you address the issue. This commit bashing needs to stop. Some of you don't understand the game if recruiting. These kids don't have to come here. Michigan hasn't won a title since 96. Michigan hasn't won the big ten in almost ten years. Stop acting like this is the only place kids can go win. The Michigan staff would not approve of these silly blog statements and while kids haven't decommitted because of these comments....the time is coming. Stop acting like we have to rip our own commits to shreds before they even play their senior year. Again....be excited top talent wants to play at Michigan....because they do not have to!
How do you know that every time Dawson or Tuley-Tillman goes to a camp or weight room, he's not thinking, "F*** that Touch the Banner guy. I'm going to prove his stupid ass wrong"?
Fact: You don't.
Look, I have no delusions that my evaluations are going to inspire any recruits to do anything either way, and it's no different than Scout or Rivals or 247 ranking a guy as a 3-star or the #70 defensive end in the country. You're giving me too much power. I have none.
You work hard at your blog and its oft very informative and thorough. I just don't see the point in making statements about miss getting lost in o line depth when...its not true and offends a TOP recruit. That is counter productive. Pointing out flaws is fine but I'm simply making the point that you have to be mindful of todays internet culture and the fact that kids will read this stuff and DO get offended by it. You don't make rude comments about a girl your trying to date lol. The recruits have ALL the power. They make our program along with coaching. If their talent isn't superior.....we won't win big. We need to win big...so let's not piss of the recruits.
mm14 relax.....and you cheated us out of a year....we won in 97.
I don't think the players take Magnus' comments to heart as much as you do.
If you can block a damn d-end without pads on, you can sure as hell block him with pads on.....camps mean a lot for every position group. I would advise all recruits not to read to not read into evaluations outside of their own coaching staffs. Just a bunch of descriptive words that sound good coming out of the mouth. What is your professional background Magnus? Where do you coach at? Where did you play?
Okay I would have never imagined Chris rock being heavily recruited by Michigan. Please don't compare Chris Rock a hard working guy to Dawson who is a National talent. Stop bashing kids. Chris Rock is not a good example. Justin Turner would be a better example and rich rod stunk at developing defensive players and identifying kids who really wanted to be at Michigan.
Chris Rock was recruited by Nebraska, Notre Dame, Oregon, Stanford, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. That list doesn't include big boppers like Alabama and USC, but that's still a pretty good offer list.
I think Chris will do good things wherever he lands. He was simply behind players with a higher "ceiling". I don't think he has the upside of a strobel or a wormley but that's just me. I hope he finds a place to make an impact.
You better be careful. You might piss off Chris Rock. You just said that Wormley and Strobel are better. I can't believe you're bashing a kid who played for Michigan, saying that he would have been beaten out by other guys. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Whatever bro. That's a weak counter and you know that you've made ill advised "evaluations" and if you continue to offend our recruits eventually its going to come to a head. I don't think you get the concept and are in this to sensationalize your opinion and evaluations.
You're right, bro. I don't get the concept that we should suck up to recruits. And I'm certainly not a sensationalist, since I often suggest that people shouldn't get too worked up about things.
It's not a weak counter at all. You said things about Chris Rock in this very same thread that you're telling me not to say about David Dawson or other recruits. So basically, your message is that we should suck up to recruits before they sign their NLI, and then we should feel free to turn around and insult their abilities after their redshirt freshman season. Crow, meet raven.
Take a deep breath and count to 10, dude. It's gonna be okay.
Just providing the argument that these "blogs" are read by recruits and while likely not taken seriously...still provide negative energy that is counter productive to what this team is trying to accomplish. But hey....its America and people have the right to voice their opinions.
I don't always agree with Magnus either, but I'm guessing he has a little more experience in evaluating players than I do. I think what he is trying to say in his evaluations is that none of these kids are the perfect prospect. Most kids have something they need to work on in order to be a complete player. I don't think he's bashing them or discouraging them from coming to Michigan. These kids have enough people stroking their egos and telling them they'll be 1st round draft picks. They need someone to be honest with them about what they need to work on....enter Hoke and Co.