Scholarship LS for fakes?
I, like the rest of you, was wondering why Hoke would give a scholarship to an LS this early in the recruiting cycle. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Then I considered something that we saw a lot of last year: Fake Field Goals. Michigan attempted three fake field goals (and converted all of them), and I believe a couple of fake punts, though I can't find the instances.
Anyhow, it occurs to me that one of our new long snapper's highest rated attributes was his blocking. He gets out of his stance and into his block very quickly, they say, and blocks effectively. I'm thinking that Hoke is planning to make the fake kick an even bigger part of the game and wants a very good long snapper to make sure it works.
Your thoughts on this possibility?
Plus, we all know what can happen if a long snap is even a little off the mark.
Edit: I don't suppose that the Mathlete or another of our statistics savvy posters could look into their records and see what an agressive fake kick is good for in points over the course of a season?
How many fakes a year can you really do, though, before people start playing the fake moreso than the kick?
You couldn't do more than maybe, MAYBE one per game. But lets say you only did one every other game, total 6.
If you just kicked the FG's and made them: 18 points.
If you were less confident and attempted only 2, made one, and made the otherr FG's: 19 points.
If, because of your excellent scholarship LS, you attempt all 6 and make 5: 35 points.
I will wager that 16 or 17 points is good for one full win per season. If signing a scholarship LS gets us from 9 to 10 or 10 to 11 wins, then the scholarship was TOTALLY worth it.
This is assuming you successfully convert first downs on the fakes. Which, even with a guy that would specialize in such a play, isn't even close to a given.
What are the odds it comes down to your excellent scholarship LS, though?
I can't give you a number, but I can say that putting the other team in that position is a huge positive to the kicking game regardless of whether the fakes actually work.
you said it twice!
Hey -
It's time to stop complaining.
We needed a long snapper. Now we have one who's debatably the best in the country. We still have room for all the blue-chip prospects that we were in on previously. We get another wonderful young man to join our team. Now all we need is Treadwell, McQuay, and Green to commit and we're done.
He's blue and I'm thrilled to have him. I'm just trying to speculate more on why.
No doubt Coach Hoke knows what he's doing, but I still can't help but wonder (even if it is for this reason) why would would offer this guy a full scholarship in June and potentially miss out on a top-250 type guy that we have to turn away because of lack of scholarships.
Because there are no more than 3 top 250 guys that we are in true contention for.
Sure, save room for that top 250 defensive end or whatever. Truth is, he might be good for 17 points across his entire career. An LS that can make the kicking game into a true weapon might be good for that in a season.
My first one! Feels great.
Do we have room to offer a scholarhip to a "catcher," who would then hand it off to the kicker?
I believe those are called "holders".
Is true that student athletes can only take their "official" visits once they have completed their ACT/SAT's?
Here are the requirements for official visits from the 2011-12 NCAA Division 1 manual:
13.6.3 Requirements for Official Visit. The following requirements must be met before an institution may provide an official visit to a prospective student-athlete: [D] (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/07)
(a) A high school or preparatory school prospective student-athlete must present the institution with a score from a PSAT, SAT, PLAN or ACT taken on a national testing date under national testing conditions, except that a state-administered ACT may be used to meet the requirement. The score must be presented through a testing agency document, on a high school or preparatory school academic transcript (official or unofficial) or through the use of the applicable testing agency’s automated-voice system. An international prospective student-athlete who requires a special administration of the PSAT, SAT, PLAN or ACT may present such a score upon the approval of the Academic Cabinet or the Initial-Eligibility Waivers Committee; (Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)(b) A prospective student-athlete must present this institution with a high school (or college) academic transcript;(c) A high school or preparatory school prospective student-athlete must register with the NCAA Eligibility Center; and (Revised: 5/9/07)(d) A high school or preparatory school prospective student-athlete must be placed on the institution’s institutional request list (IRL) with the NCAA Eligibility Center. (Revised: 5/9/07)13.6.3.1 NCAA Eligibility Center. A prospective student-athlete’s fulfillment of these academic requirements may be certified by the NCAA Eligibility Center approved by the Executive Committee. (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/07)
No offense, but this is completely ridiculous.
Hoke has stated that he will go for the win with things like fake kicks. It's absolutely critical that a fake kick for the win come off as cleanly and be as well blocked as possible. So what then makes this ridiculous? I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right, I'd just like to see your defense.
Fine.
First, you don't offer a scholarship to a guy for 6 plays a year. And I bet we wouldn't run 6 fake FGs per year.
Second, and most importantly, the long snapper would have the least impact on a successful fake kick than any other player on the field. Even if he's a good blocker for a snapper, he's still a far worse blocker than any of the other linemen on the field at the time, worse than the TEs, and probably not better than an average running back.
You'd have a better shot by putting in your back-up center (who actually knows how to block) when you're gonna run the fake. I bet it would take 3-4 times before anyone would catch on, and even then, the players would have to figure it out and tell each other.
So your argument is that the long snapper is the weakest link in the fake FG situation, and therefore it's completely ridiculous to think about trying to shore up that weak link by bringing in a top long snapper who can also block decently?
Nope, my point is that even with Steve Selinski or whoever, the LS will always be the weakest link in the fake FG situation, so it's not worth using a scholarship on him.
You don't offer a scholarship on a kicker who has good hands so you can use him for onside kicks. Because even if you did, he still has a very slim shot at recovering the ball. This LS who is 6'1" 230 is not going to be such a good blocker that he's have any affect on whether or not we succeed on the play.
Maybe you would be better putting your back up center in on a fake FG, but more than likely not since there is a much greater chance he would fudge up the snap and ruin the whole thing. Face it offering scholarships to LS is only going to become more and more common.
Darn, I thought the title meant that the scholarship LS story was fake
You generally don't recruit players specifically for a play you're only going to utilize 5 times in one year max. It's like recruiting RB and your main criterion being his arm strength and accuracy so you have a better chance of completing a HB pass.
It's hard to really make fake kicks a regular part of your gameplan. Remember MSU-ND this year when MSU went for The Worlds Most Obvious Fake Field Goal? Everyone in the world saw it coming and it got stuffed and Mork looked dumb.
Not saying Hoke doesn't like it to be in his playbook, but I doubt trick plays are why he offered a scholarship to said long snapper
Yeah I think you're right. I think that's what made it so stinkin obvious.
1) He is going to touch the ball 6-10 times per game; 2) He will grow and probably be a backup center as well; 3) We are telling the Big Ten and the country that we are kicking your butts so hard in recruiting that we now have the luxury of taking a long snapper.
He will never be a back-up center. He's 6'1" 230.
David Molk was 6'1...he turned out pretty well. And remember, this kid is a Junior, in high school...he's still gonna grow 1 or 2 inches AT LEAST. And as to weight? He has time to put it on...I see him ending up 6'3 275. Compared to Molk at 6'1" 290, yeah...i think he could be a backup center
He'd also need to possess the quick feet and brute strength of Molk and his no-neckness, which is not happening. Let's also look at his frame and realize there's no way he can carry 275 pounds of good weight. And he needs good weight because part of the long-snappers job is to also help out with kick coverage after the ball is away. That's why you don't have long-snappers that are 280 pounds and your long snappers are never your back-up centers. It's an extremely specialized position and they don't really fit in anywhere else.
I, for one, like the use of this scholarship. We still have room for AT LEAST a top RB, WR and DE. Are there really other positions of need out there? If there is some other top 250 player out there, there is still room, as we will amost certainly lose either a single current player to attrition or one current recruit to a decommit.
Bottom line, there was no better use for this spot, and I like the idea of perfecting our special teams. Sure beats treating them as an afterthought.
Yes there was: DB.
Well, in order to get to 24 in this class, we need 4 more guys to leave the team already, so when you say "a single current player" you really mean a single current player in addition to the four we're already planning on.
The LS handles the ball a couple times a game normally. Sometimes more in really bad games. I'm not really all that outraged over the fact we've given a scholarship to a guy who is going to touch the ball multiple times per game. Four years of more effective punts and not having any botched snaps (Ohio State game, although that was more on the punter) is worth a scholarship.
We give scholarships to guys who never do anything beyond playing gunner on special teams and we don't lament over those. What makes the decision to get a top long snapper, instead of just getting a walkon of variable talent, such a horrible one...?
But we don't ever give a guy a scholarship with the intent that he does nothing beyond being a gunner on special teams. We don't have a problem giving Mike Cox a scholarship, because before he gets to campus we don't know he won't be Mike Hart or Vincent Smith.
But this guy, best case scenario, will see the field a handful of times a game, and will likely do negligibly better than whoever would have played his position in his place.
Have we had any botched long snaps in the last few years? Yeah, Hagerup muffed one, but that was a good snap that went through both of his hands, not even over his head. Outside of that episode, can anyone remember a bad snap? I'm sure they've happened, but there's no guarantee this kid will go 100% either.
I still think it is ridiculous to give a scholarship to a LS. I am sorry, I have read all of the reasoning for it and I do not see a LS impacting fake's. The turmoil after the snap has been the issue. If the punter cant catch or the holder cant catch then there is the root. I saw atleast one time last year on each where the ball was dropped on a good snap. This has nothing to do with the LS. I do believe it is important to have a good LS but I do not think giving a scholarship is neccessary. We brought in TWO walk-ons to LS. TWO. Why make four total when he arrives on campus. I trust the coachng staff BUT this is unneccessary. That takes away a spot for another IMPACT player. I just hope his delivery time is just unbelievable and Hagerup/Wile can catch the dang thing. So with this say we get Treadwell, Mcquay and Green. There is no room for another WR or DL. Hell we may not get any of the three but that is unlikely, all I am saying is that why take a TREMENDOUS recruiting class where spots are already thin in scholarship allotment and give a LS one? I just do not get it and I am just trying to forget it happend. There goes Mcquay's teammate and Joe Mathis, FOR A LONGSNAPPER!!
Although I completely agree with your point, we only took one LS last year because Taybor Pepper accepted a scholarship at MSU.
What happened, happened... we can debate the merits of this move until the cows come home and it won't make much of a difference, but I will say this: That kid is one lucky bastard!! I hope he realizes how lucky he is.
For a LS to:
1. Get offered a full, unconditional scholarship.
2. At a school like Michigan.
3. In JUNE....
....That's gotta be like a once in a lifetime occurence. He plays an obscure position, and has his college choice wrapped up before his senior season, full-ride to Michigan. That's gotta be the long-snapper equivalent of winning the lottery.