It's susceptible to good outside shooting and responsible ball handling. I'm not exactly shaking in my boots, not that it's an easy game. We just match up well for this
Scary Article on Syracuse 2-3 Zone (Grantland)
Actually Syracuse does remarkably well at defending 3P%. KenPom has forwarded the idea that teams actually can't control opponents' 3P%, they just control how many they put up. That's because year to year, the vast majority of teams don't see any correlation between 3P%. Syracuse, surprisingly for a 2-3 zone team, appears to. They make you take a lot of 3's and they apparently do a great job contesting them. Best guess? It's related to their height around the perimeter.
It appears to but the Big East isnt very good at shooting the 3 ball. This is a great site I found the other day. http://statsheet.com/mcb/beyondthearc/confs/big-east
I haven't taken the time to fully analyze but it's not hard to see they struggle. This site would be a great tool to put together an analysis if someone feels so inclined.
Do you know what's scary?
Thanks for posting, it was a good read. Syracuse's length does concern me. I think it was a big factor against Ohio State in Columbus. I just feel really good about our chances if we play with the confidence we played with against Florida. Especially that man whose picture I posted.
I ain't scared of nothin'.
I really believe the difference in this game will be Trey Burke. Nobody the Fighting Boeheims have beaten, have had a PG as good as Burke. I know 'Cuses length is a little bit scary, but I'm confident in our ability with Trey leading the way.
I'm actually not so sure. To beat a zone you need ball movement. One of the first things Trey is going to have to do is make a move to get someone out of position then start a CHAIN of passes. In other words, Trey won't be the main facilitator on many of these plays unless they pass it around and back to him. I think Trey, THJr, and Stauskas are all going to need excellent movement with and without the ball. The entire team needs good passing. We can't have our bigs fumbling with the ball.
It's easy to say outside shooting can break a zone, but what happens if we show up in Atlanta and the shots just aren't falling? Plan A needs to be attacking the zone. Plan B can be chucking it from deep not the other way around.
the Fighting Boeheims have beatenin the country, have hadhas a PG as good as Burke.
This article made me google the Gaboon Viper. Wikipedia has information on everything. Seriously, I'm glad we have a week to come up with a good game plan for Syracuse. I'm confident Coach B will have the team ready.
Charlie Pierce, national treasure.
I am not sure it's that good.
I mean, it's not like Syracuse was undefeated this year. They can be beat. I didn't like Marquette or Indiana's zone offense. I expect to like ours. Someone said above that ball movement is key. Well, good ball movement is necessary in any good offense, but honestly dribble penetration and top-line screens are more fundamental, in my opinion, to breaking down a good modern 2-3. All good 2-3's these days, especially Syracuse's, are excellent at stopping the short corner attack, which both indiana and Marquette tried. Dribble penetration is better, and we have the best point guard in the nation. We also have Mitch McGary whose high screens are, well, just ask VCU. As long as we don't play into Syracuse's hands and attack their zone the same way it's been attacked recently, I think we'll be all right. Cuse is still good, but we at least have a chance if we void the silly perimeter-passing, slow-down quagmire that killed IU and Marquette.
I'll admit I don't know a lot about basketball, but whatever I read "Syracuse has a unique and dangerous defense", I can't help but recall the same headlines about VCU from two weeks ago.
Yes, the press every game predicts we are going to lose because:
- our D isn't good
- opposing team has some scary D
They are wrong. Our D has been scary good too - nobody is getting easy baskets against us. Withey was supposed to eat us alive and had 12 points.
Well, everyone else on Kansas got a TON of easy buckets against us for 32 minutes.
Teams are shooting greater than 50% inside the arc against us in the tournament. Kansas scored 60 points in the paint, many of which were not/poorly contested. Our D has been bad.
Another thing that is scary is trying to keep Mitch McGary off of the offensive glass while running a zone defense.
Their zone is great but they've been playing it for ages... have I missed Syracuse's 10 straight national championships?
They lost 9 times this year. The article makes it sound like they are infallible. Bottom line is we will need to do a ggod job getting to middle. It would seem Mcgary would be the man for the middle with GRIII under. Yes, tough game but at this point they all are with there own unique challenges. We present out own.
It'll be tough game for sure, but they aren't infalible by any means. UF has a better defense according to KenPom, and Kansas is currently sitting at number 6 right behind Syracuse at number 5 (but I swear that Kansas was ahead of Syracuse previous to the update following this past weekend). It will represent a different challange for sure. Again, it'll come down to our defense; Syracuse is offensively limited, so if we limit TOs and play D, we can pull it out.
No one made a peep about Syracuse's defense all year until that Indiana game, and suddenly it's the best defense since people stopped using peach baskets.
for peaches, of course.
It's good. But if anyone can do this, we can.
Thank you for posting this video. The way Syracuse likes to gamble pays off against teams that don't have multiple ball-handling threats (Indiana, Marquette), but as Louisville showed in the above video, can be easily penetrated by smart decision making.
Hmm... a lot less trapping than I thought. Crisp passing was key to some of those breakdowns. I'd like to see GRob in high post and TJH at the top initiating with TB on a wing w/ threat of dribble penetration on the wing against the off guard/forward
I wouldn't make too much of this one-sided highlight reel. SU, after all, did build up a 16 point lead with 16 minutes left in that game. Louisville had only 29 points after the first 24 minutes of play.
What followed was an amazing collapse in which SU ended up losing by 17. Outside of those awful 16 minutes in the Big East championship game, SU has been playing at a very high level the past three weeks.
Moreover, this was Louisville's third game of the season against SU, and they play SU at least twice a season. Like the other Big East teams, they have a lot more experience against this D. It's not as easy to break down this D as the highlight reel makes it seem.
That said. Go Blue.
let us not forget that beilein used to play syracuse 2+ times per year when he was at west virigina. so, it ain't like it's the first time he's seen the zone. it also helps big time if you've got a guy in the high post who can catch the ball around the foul line and dribble drive or fake a few passes and hit the open guy. fake passes are key i think, because the zone needs to shift in anticipation.
UDM put up 68 points on these guys. We will be fine.
And Indiana put up 50.
Cody was the hub of the IU offense, flashing the high post and often receiving the ball easily. The problem was that nothing came of those entries. Cody didn't take the open 12 footers, and repeatedly tried and failed to challenge and go over the top of the Syracuse bigs. And not-too-surprisingly, he didn't pass the ball from within the heart of the zone.
If someone can be more effective from that spot on the court **cough** Trey Burke **cough** THJ **cough**, we won't be impotent like IU was.
With Tom Crean as coaching mastermind while playing two 5'11 guards in Hulls/Ferrell and sharpshooter Oladipo as their outside threats. Color me not surprised that they couldn't attack the zone or shoot over the zone.
We should be fine on offense. Just need to keep up our defense that we played against FL
For as active as they are on defense, they are fairly lazy on offense. You've seen Michigan get so many points off of steals. Lazy inbounds. Lazy entry passes. Trey Burke's "Appling" move (lol).
A lot of this intense love for Syracuse zone is just media over-hype. Also hard to be critical of a PG who's house just burned down yet still managed to get his team to the Final Four. Marquette was never a good shooting team, but shot lights out against Miami. Couldn't even make the few open shots against Syracuse and their PG Blue could not penetrate the zone to collapse. Indiana inexplicably decided to feed Zeller (Hulls shoulder injury might have had something to do with that) and failed. Ferrel also played like a freshman.
I do think Syracuse's zone will be different because of how Stauskas shot. They'll be stretched towards him on the perimeter so he'll have opportunities to drive & dish/dunk. Give John Beilein a week to prepare an offensive gameplan against a team with a weak offense? Good luck with that!
does not make the hype legit. I dont see Butler getting this kind of love. Syracuse was a terribe matchup for IU like we were a terrible matchup for Florida. Cuse is a legit team but right now theyre getting way overhyped. I expect a dogfight depending on how Stauskas plays and if the Cuse pg can use his size advantage against Burke.
I'm not worried about that end of the court. Our offense is really, really good. It's our defense that's the wild card.
I just read this article. First of all, it is fluff. OOH WE PLAY 2-3 DEFENSE WERE SCARY CAUSE NOBODY KNOWS HOW GOOD WE ARE AT IT AND IF I WRITE IN ALL CAPS MY POINT WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT.
Also, the author, Charles P. Pierce, he's kind of a douchenoggle. And he has a history of disliking michigan
Side note: I could kind of tell he didn't like Michigan by the Grantland article, so I googled Charles P. Pierce Michigan, and sure enough, link to this site.
Bonus side note: Check it, this other link to this blog when it was just a baby, in which Brian also says that Charles P. Pierce is also being, well, not smart.
"I guarantee you that at least a couple of Burke's teammates are looking at the scouting report and wondering what the big deal is with a team that only plays a 2-3 zone. Hell, everybody plays a 2-3 zone. And the Gaboon viper awaits, coiled on a hook in the garden."
He's capable of making guarantee's on what's being said inside the Michigan locker room? And a guarantee that makes Michigan look like a cocky team nonetheless.
Seems like a very unbiased article (/s)
Also, Gaboon Vipers generally don't bite people unless you are sort of stomping/danicing around on them near their face. And its a snake. Kill it with a shovel. Or a spade. Or any other standard gardening tool. I'd be more afraid of strange noises creeping out of my basement as my dryer cycles to "auto-fluff."
If I had enough points to up-vote, I would. I just read the wiki page on Gaboon Vipers, and they seem nice enough to bring to the states as a pet (/s of course). But yes, I agree. It would not be the snake of choice to be deathly afraid of if it were hanging around your garden.
Now if he compared their zone to a Black Mamba, Cottonmouth, or King Cobra; then yes, I would be deathly afraid.
Why is Kobe Bryant hanging around in your garden.
Also, once I got bit by a King Cobra. After days of excruciating pain, the cobra finally died. (Name that movie reference)
He's climbin in yo windows
Snatchin yo people up
He's tryin to rape em*
So yall need to
Hide yo kids
Hide yo wife
Hide yo kids
Hide yo wife
And hide yo husband
Cuz he rapin erbody out here*
Very aggressive bastards whose bite can kill you quickly if there's no anti-venom around.
but I wouldnt bet against a team as hot as we are. playing with the nation's best PG. Plus, said team is also playing a lot better defense right now than they're being given credit for.
The defense obviously has been pretty impressive throughout the tourney. But, as mentioned before if you can hit your shots then 'Cuse will have to change it up. Also, when they run that zone, they also have zone rebounding which is tough for them, and we have some guy named Mitch Mcgary who is a pretty good offense rebounder. If we play defense like we did yesterday, deflecting passes, jumping the ball to make plays and get into transition, then their zone will be useless.
We match up well. To beat Syracuse you need one or two point guards with great vision and that can handle the ball. And you need " ... three things typically beat a zone defense: offensive rebounds, 3-point shots, and transition baskets. "
As long as we don't get frustrated it will be an incredible game.
I think we are also due some retribution against Syracuse...
Flag on you unnecessary painful flashback
McGary is an above average passer for a big man. He's also hit a couple of elbow jumpers. He and GRIII will have all kinds of space to either pass or shoot at the elbow and around the free throw line. Put Stauskas and Hardaway in either corner, and they'll get plenty of open looks. I think we match up very well with Syracuse. There's no way their coaches wanted to play Michigan based on matchups.
I like our chances of getting shots, just have to hit them.
Here's some ideas from Izzo:
Beilein has never beaten Boeheim, which is a tad startling.
However, Beilein has never had a team this good, either.
True, but to be fair he had never been to the Final Four either....
Have they played against each other much? I thought I read that WVU was only in the Big East for 1-2 years before Beilein came to Michigan.
Izzo's lost like 4 or 5 straight to Syracuse too.
Basketball, in my opinion, is one of the few sports where defense really doesn't win championships. Offense seems to be the driving force to championship teams, mostly. To pull from the obvious talking heads that only point out the obvious, scoring more points than the other team usually* is more ensuring of a victory than trying to prevent the other team from scoring more points than you.
Hopefully Michigan will be practicing this week against a 6 and 7 man zone, so when they face the 5 man zone it will feel like there is much more space.
we can beat anybody. If we shoot as poorly from the 3 as Ohio State did against Wichita, beating Syracuse (or Louisville) will be a very tall order.
My Temple Owls handled the vaunted 2/3 on a neutral court this year.
Michigan is better.
Watching that Louisville/Syracuse highlight package, the only thing I could think was, "Go Wichita State!" Sheesh, Siva is good, the matchup with him and Burke would be "tremendous." I hope we can put away Syracuse. But really, go Shockers.
Obviously Boeheim has been doing his "thing" well for years. I've watched them play going back to the 80's. There are a couple things which are important when facing Boeheim's zone when he has long rangy athletic players like this team does:
1) Get into the lane under control. With some teams, as soon as you break down the top of the zone, it falls apart. You can leave your feet and either have a good shot or good passing lane. Cuse is very good about recovering and still covering passing lanes. If you penetrate and leave your feet because you see the big guys in the way, it will be a very long day. Penetrate and keep your feet and good things will open up.
2) Get used to shooting with a lanky guy closing out rapidly with a hand in your face. This sounds basic, but this is one of the "hidden" secrets of Syracuse. There is always a guy closing out on you and they come from different angles. This can throw shooters off because they are expecting a wide open look or they are used to guys closing out on them from an expected position. Guys start rushing shots, rushed shots don't go in. Long day. In comparison, on Stauskas' 6 threes against Florida, he only had to make one adjustment. That's 5 threes basically taken in open gym conditions. Syracuse doesn't let that happen. Don't get spooked by the flying defender coming from an angle and don't let them rush your shot. If it's not there, pass it and reset it.
Do those 2 things, and I'm not saying it will be easy, but you won't give them a chance to get easy scores off turn overs. And with Syracuse, typically, it's a matter of not letting their offense get easy points. They tend to struggle in half court games (except when they have that one guy, i.e. Melo, Wallace, Moten, Owens, Coleman) I don't see one of "those" type guys on this team.
Closing out 3-point shooters with lanky guys works when you are closing out a bunch of short shooters. Stauskas is 6-6. Hardaway is 6-5. Unless you are closing out on them with a 6-8 guy you better get there fast or the ball is gone.
I'm not worried about us getting shots. I'm just worried about us making them. I think we've shown all year that we will get good shots. We just have to knock them down.
Check the Syracuse roster. The starting PG is 6'7", the SG is 6'4" and it goes up from there. The primary reason a good shooter misses open shots is because they rush it, thus the point of my post.
Oh...how we forget how SU got stommed by Gtown basically playing transition and hitting pop threes off that 2-3 amoeba zone.
They are going to be a tough match-up, but with our coaches getting a whole week to prep, I feel confident. Remember, we have five legit scoring threats on the floor, not one or two scorers, but five that SU must account for in this game. And to be frank, with the way McGary as been agressive underneath, his put backs and re-bound second chance points, SU is not liking his development in the tourney. Those are killers against zone defenses.
So much silly hype for this zone.
Apparently VCU's defense was feared at one point?
Michigan just embarassed the #3 defense in the country, and before that, put up 87 against #13, and before that, dominated the defense with the highest forced turnover rate in the country.
I'm not exactly shaking in my cheese.
We can kill it.
we increased the score delta, but to my eyes it did befuddle Trey a little bit. He could not seem to do his usual penetration. The outside sharpshooters saved the day at that point. I was happier when they came out of the zone and Michigan could play its usual and familiar offense. (You could probably prove me wrong with statistics, but is that fair?) Somehow the B1G network knows that Michigan shoots 52% against the zone. edit PS. As Boeheim talked about how you can't practice against his zone, I wondered if it would help to practice against a 7- man zone.
The Syr/Lou game video shows some of what Izzo talks about in his coaching vid. Louisville has a couple of plays where someone sneaks in behind the zone and several drive and kick plays similar to what Izzo is talking about. .What also is apparent from the game video is that the Louisville center has a nice 15 foot shot if the zone backs off him. Also the center makes lots of key passes as the offense seems to run a lot from an entry pass to the center at the high post. I hope that our bigs will have excellent shooting touch and passing savvy next Saturday.
If this 2-3 zone is all that they wouldn't had 9 losses
It seems a lot of the talking heads have already penciled in a Syracuse - Louisville championship game. It's true that Michigan hasn't faced a zone defense with the skill and players of Syracuse this year, but I also do not think Syracuse has faced a team with the offensive skill of Michigan. As others have pointed out, Michigan's defense and rebounding may very well be the most important keys to this games. Fast break points don't happen without solid defense and rebounding.
I also think that Whichita St. can prevail over Louisville.
...is a team with quick guards who are good off the dribble. They've been causing us a lot of problems with our help defense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would leave me to believe 'Ville is the toughest match-up for us. Does Syracuse have this as a strength? When Southerland sat with 4 fouls against 'Ville, 'Cuse went away.