there is enough deception/mis-direction with the rest of the scheme to resort to triple reverses.
things go poorly
there is enough deception/mis-direction with the rest of the scheme to resort to triple reverses.
There isn't a single sportscaster in CFB or NFL that knows the difference between a reverse & a double.
Drives me batty.
stay with the hot hand, Devin has to start at QB
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I believe we will see an offensive game plan similar to last weeks. Now let's hope we can have the same results!
Devin at QB / WR and Denard at QB / RB / Slot.
It doesn't really matter who lines up as QB, as playing both really allows for either to assume that role. Snap to Devin, designed run with an option pitch to Denard who then either runs or pulls up and his a receiver. Pitch to Denard who throws to Devin. Pitch to Devin with a Denard jet sweep. The options are limitless.
I really think that having both of thes guys out there in a 2-qb set is our best shot, especially since our only semi-credible non=QB run threat is down for the year.
The better question for this board:
Assuming that I said above happens, who play at RB? Rawls has seemed ineffective, and will not be able to bulldoze OSU's D-line to move the pile. Hayes and Norfleet are wee little men who don't appear to have the offense down yet or be able to block.
While I have been a harsh critic in the past, I think that the start goes to V. Smith. His blocking and ability to pick-up the blitz will hopefully allow Denard and Devin to work their magic in the backfield. Also, he is decent to good on screen passes and in the slot. Finally, we know that he can throw. With all of the D focussed on our monster athletes at QB, I could see Borges breaking out that play where V. Smith throws (worked well once, the other time not so much).
Just telling a friend last night that I expected to see a lot of Devin/Denard/Smith in the backfield. Smith for the reasons you mention... Blocking and catching out of the backfield. With Devin and Denard back there, I think they have our run needs/threats covered.
I think what you'll see is packages with Denard at QB and Devin at WR and packages with Devin at QB and Denard at RB. That will make it incredibly difficult for them to call defensive plays because both will be in the huddle almost the entire time. I think you'll see both QBs passing with Devin taking about 70% of those snaps. Denard will be used for QB Oh Noes and a HB pass.
Who "starts" won't matter because they'll be splitting time and can only be determined by whatever you say the criteria is for determining a starter (e.g. listed as starter, first snap, most snaps, etc.). I think that Devin will be listed as the starter so that OSU doesn't know what to expect.
It's funny that Iowa is the team to see unconventional looks from our offense two years in a row.
Last year, the gimmicks ultimately cost us the game (or at least killed all offensive momentum). This year, Iowa couldn't stop anything we did.
I just pray that we don't over-gimmick ourselves and take whatever the defense gives us.
It will be a lot harder for Denard to break big runs when he's not under center
Or Denard Gardner.
or Nick Busey?!
If denard isn't quite 100%, do you still give him some "easy" throws early on to keep the D honest?
Denard is needed more at RB than QB at this point. Devin has proved more than capable and we have seen that Devin QB/Denard wildcard is more potent than the Denard-QB and Devin-WR combo.
Denard starts, but Devin gets more snaps at QB. I liked how Borges was mixing things up in the Iowa game.
You know the Buckeyes will be gunnin' for Denard's right arm though.
I realize we were playing Iowa but I think our offense looked great saturday. I think it is going to be really hard for the defense to adjust to the different formations and the offense is less predictable. I love Denard but he hasn't been able to throw the ball for the last three weeks so I think it would be difficult for him to come in and play a whole game at QB. I think the fact that Denard wouldn't even carry the ball in his right hand means it might be a little while before he can constantly make good throws. Just my opinion.
Gardner, all day.
Gardner...or else Borges will call another game like Michigan State.
Interesting how Borges's "bad" playcalling started looking much better when he had a more accurate QB playing.
Denard is an incredibly dangerous runner . . . but not a great passer. To me there's no debate. Gardner at QB and Denard at RB plays to both guys' strengths.
Does anyone know where the Michigan section is for Ticket buying purposes?
I may get negged for this, but if you use your head and not your heart it's a no brainer. Denard is no doubt an incredible football player, but can struggle with throwing technique and reading coverage/decision making. So, he's hit or miss. He's great if the run is working and not so much if it's not. I believe you have to ride the hot hand, and that is Gardner. I know we all love Denard and you can't dismiss what he's done for the program. But, at the same time you cannot bench a QB that has put up the numbers Devin has, especially since Denard's best quality is his legs and you can still use him in other roles.
We have already discovered that Gardner at QB and Robinson at WR/RB is a more dynamic scenario than Robinson at QB and Gardner at WR, and not just because Gardner appears to be a better passer, but also because Robinson is a better WR/RB. It's no different than when Brady took Bledsoe's job. Bledsoe was a great QB, but Brady was playing well and the team was winning, and as a coach you can't take out a guy who's doing that. What kind of message would that send? You can't simply start a guy because he used to be the starter prior to his injury. No one gets an automatic job back when returning from injury and shouldn't no matter who they are. The best player at the best time should always play no matter who they are or what they've done.
I'm pretty sure Hoke will say the best player will play and that he owes that to the team and the seniors. And, I think he believes that means Gardner at QB and Robinson at WR/RB with an a few snaps at QB too, but no the primary QB. I love Robinson and would love nothing more than to see him shine as our QB, but based on what I have seen (granted small sample size) our offense is better with Gardner at QB and Denard at "athlete". And, I think if you use your head and not your heart you will agree.
Exactly how I feel.
why in the world would you go away from the plan that scored six touchdowns in the first six drives? You keep going until they stop it.
It'll be just like the Iowa game plan. Denard will get 6-12 reps at QB with run pass options. Otherwise Devin is the QB and Denard plays slot/rb.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Devin. He provides the balance our offense so desperately needs. But find ways to get Denard into the game, like Iowa this past week. The guy makes plays, as we all very well know. Regardless, if his arm isn't 100%, this is a moot point.
Additionally, Devin's seems to be hitting his stride, and is building a lot of momentum for himself for next year. It might be foolish to throw a screw into that machine right now.
Fitz out, I'd like to see Gardner start at QB and Denard line up at RB.
Would probably throw their gameplan off slightly.
At any rate, it looks like we've got a few weapons to use against them.
I would start Denard. If we were playing this game at home, then it's a toss-up. However, on the road, against a team that is ranked by the Associated Press in the top 5, you have to go with the player that's been there before.
With that said Devin NOW is clearly a better QB than reciever and Denard isn't quite as good as a RB as he is a QB. Can you imagine a RB that can throw? Talk about a two headed Dragon. So I say roll with Devin at QB and Denard at RB. Bottom line two athletes are better than 1 Braxton Miller. To the Mods thanx for my 5th 0 in a row
The mods don't control the score of your post. Also, complaining about MGoPoints/upvoting gets you negbanged.
Here's an interesting thought though: Denard and Gardner lined up "stacked" in the pistol/shotgun. Either one could take the snap from Mealer, since neither is under center. Or you could have one of them line up in the shotgun, and then the other pre-snap motion in front and take the direct snap. The possibilities are endless.
All I know is if Denard starts (and plays most of the QB snaps), he beat out a legitimate talent to earn that start. That's a lot more than I could say earlier this year, so that's a food thing, right?
Also I hate autocorrect.
Makes me hungry.
all day long.
Trample the bucks
Like donkey kong.
Like a BOSS
They both finish.
You're talking about ONE game - NOT an entire season.
Do what you have to do for this one game. If it was the entire year, that would be a different subject.
Break out that offense that marched the ball 60+ yards on six straight possessions for touchdowns. I like that one.
Devin at QB Denard at RB
DG and Shoelace both start in that case.
at the next level, Denard will most likely be playing the role he is in now- a RB/Wildcat player, and if there is any silver lining to his injury I think the pro scouts are now seeing him in a somewhat different light and it may have raised his draft stock. Given that, and the way Gardner has led the offense the last three weeks, I am in favor of starting Devin and using Denard in an even more expanded offensive scheme. Can you imagine Denard throwing an Oh Noes in the middle of all this?
Even if he's fully healthy, he will be rusty passing. And with the emergence of Devin being able to pass the ball actually pretty well, there's no need to have to rely solely on Denard in the passing attack.
IN other words, both guys will play QB. Devin likely gets most passing attempts but I think Denard will surprise OSU with a few passes as well. Should be entertaining to watch!
Brian talked about this in the Iowa post game but can you imagine an inverted veer with Devin at QB and Denard at RB but with Denard having the option to pass when coming around the edge? I am just hoping that Denard's arm is good enough for some worst waldo opportunities.
It finally seems like with this combo we can really put pressure on their safeties to either A) committ to the run and be vulnerable on a worst waldo type play or B) respect the pass and be vulernable against Denard in space with the ball in his hands.
Could go either way.
If you run the IV with Robinson at QB, you get a player reading the DE who's been practicing that play for a couple years. It's obvious that it's our best play.
But if you run the IV with Gardner at QB, then you get an additional advantage of having the bigger guy diving up the middle, whereas the faster/more elusive guy is running toward the edge.
Either way, you can't go wrong.
I don't care who starts. I think it's clear that this game plan needs to incorporate the strengths of this team right now: Devin's passing, Denard's legs, and Gallon/Roundtree/Funchess/Dileo.
I do think that if Denard CAN throw, it will open up an additional element that will totally fuck with OSU.
Honestly, I think Vince Smith is going to have a monster game, both rushing, receiving and protecting the QB. With Denard being the primary focus on the ground, OSU can't really hope to guard against every threat. Look for our darkhorse threats to rise up and have opportunities to win this game.
That said, it begins with Denard being able to make plays and Devin continuing to grow in the pass game. If we get off to fast start, there's no good adjustment for fickell to make.
RE: being too gimmicky... This year we're going be riding a fine line with the gimmicks. If we were to line up and try to run Rawls and VSmith up the gut and try obvious play action, I think sooner rather than later, OSU overwhelms that and forces Gardner into some bad decisions. That's not sustainable in this game with our O lines inability to block for a non-QB rusher. The Denard jet will work, but the key is getting big plays off of that where Denard is a decoy. OSU knows that on any given play, Denard could house it if they don't pay attention to him. Having to also account for Devin's scrambling and deep balls, they are in a bind anytime Denard is on the field. I'm very intrigued to see how this plays out. I don't really see either defense being all that effective in this game, and I think it may take 40+ to win this one.
Be prepared for this now, because I've seen it in a number of OSU games: They will have wide open tight ends on busted coverage and I will predict that they get 2 tds and several big gainers by getting those tight ends lost in our zones.
This is not the kind of team our D is really built to shut down, and it's going to be a long game. More than ever, just 1 or 2 opportunities to get a takeaway could really save us.
In a game worthy of the Big 12, I think we win this 41-35 in a game that might remind you of the last time we played a high-powered Urban Meyer team. . .
Devin has an up & down game, alternating big plays with 2 bad turnovers. M starts fast, falls behind at half 28-17, before turning it on late to win.
Gardner: 15-29, 275 yards, 2 TDS passing, 1 rushing. 2 interceptions. Denard throws a TD pass on the opening drive and runs for a TD later. surpasses 100 yards.Vincent Smith has 75+ total yards and a receiving TD.
1000 points to you sir
Brady Hoke loves the fact that this is probably a conversation occurring in the Ohio coaches room right now. And because of that, Michigan gains a huge competitive advantage.
You have two tremendous athletes that have both proven they are dangerous and proficient, both of whom can attack at three or four separate positions in different combinations. The largest criticism of the Michigan offense this year has been the fact that it is predictable. I'd love to argue with anyone who thinks that notion at this point in the season.
If anything, I think this argument is serving one purpose and one purpose only for Saturday and that is to keep the Ohio defense honest about the pass and rush threat that Michigan now has.
Both Devin and Denard will run. Both Devin and Denard will attempt to throw. Hell, both will probably catch a pass. And you probably won't be able to tell before they snap the ball.
but on a couple maybe Denard gets a quick pitch and throws the ball IF he can put any zip on it.
Devin needs to be in a rhythm to be successful in a game like this. Switching QBs evry few plays makes it hard for the Oline and the QBs and receivers to develop a rhythm.
Denard is definitely the better athlete, but Devin at QB and Denard all over the field makes them both better.
Gardner at QB. Robinson at RB. Play action has been lethal these past few weeks. Combine that with Denard getting yards in space, and that's a pretty potent offense.
I'm wondering if Robinson will throw a couple times (assuming he can) just to keep the OSU offense on their toes. Or maybe a throw across the field back to Gardner type of play. Ehh who knows?
where is fritz crisler when you need him...