I had a feeling this was going to be the case. Those guys are just too good to turn away. But like others have mentioned, theres going to be a crowded corps of LBs.
Sam Webb LB Tweet
you say crowded...I say competitive!!
LB is a very fluid position. It isn't uncommon, especially at the college level, to rotate LBs a lot during the course of a game or for particular game situations. If you watched Alabama play at all, they do this a ton. They also get injured a bit more often as they are always in plays and, as you can imagine, get twisted up and hit a lot more than some other positions. Also, LBs have some movability in that they can grow and play with a hand down; if they are behind athletically but have the right mentality, they can be good fullbacks as they have that same type of personality a lot of time; they are typically pretty good special teams players.
So I wouldn't worry about that part of it.
... are starting to sound more and more likely that O'Daniel will be a much tougher pull that expected, he just had a good visit to Clemson who he is also very high on,.
Also hearing the staffs' interest is not nearly as high as the other 3 linebackers. O'Daniel is basically the same linebacker as Ross from 2012 and we were interested in O'Daniel and Fuller duo (and pulling Fuller from Va Tech is as likely as getting stealing the third plumlee brother from Duke)
If we land land McCray and Gedeon we will hold a spot for Levenburry (5* talent) and we should be very happy about that. All three of those LB's offer something slightly different, and they have the impressive size at the position that we didn't have in 2012.
My guess is we land all three, I hope we do it quick and move on to the next positions. The current guess is that this class will be around 23 ish, sure "rankings" don't matter but you have to be excited that how "the team" is shaping up.
I would be surprised if he did, but this probably does mean that we are in very good shape with >2 LBs.
Also, it's Gedeon.
but talent is talent. And based on past history, attrition at the LB position has been high. When you factor in how depleted we've been in the last 4 years or so, I'd say this is very good.
Brain dead on a Monday. Figured Sam's update was the more important info in the post anyways. Thanks for the catch. It's been fixed.
i think we take 3, but if they all want to come we need to take them. it will give us a lot of flexiblity in the future
That depends on if we can afford to leave another position group a little thin. Where can we skimp on recruiting if all 4 want to come?
First off, the team doesn't have that many linebackers on the roster, and it loses 2 for sure this year (Demens and Hawthorne), with Mike Jones and Isaiah Bell also redshirt juniors. If you look at that list of LBs on the team in 2013, it's heavily reliant on 2012 kids to make their mark.
If you want to look at a crowded position on the roster, look at the safety positions.
Also, the team really doesn't need another kicker until 2015.
I expect Michigan to lose 4 LBs next year. They need to replace bodies with LBs. The main positions people seem to be fretting about are WR and DT.
WR will be recruited.
As for DT, don't forget that people tend to move down and inside, meaning that DEs can become DTs, DTs can become NT, etc. Also, with the numbers at O-line, if players start to get stuck in the depth chart don't be surprised if they flip them to the other side. Those players will probably continue to be depth players, but it just points out that depth shouldn't be an issue at any position on this team after the next couple years. Attrition and uneven classes really messes with the depth charts at the end of RRs tenure and Michigan is now just trying to build it back up to where it needs to be.
So...are we taking 2 or 4?
Are we taking 2 or 3? Also, if they all want to come, will we take 4?
Purely speculation - I think this means a lesser chance on an extra DB or DE - not sure which one. Fine by me as we have a billionty DBs now and one will likely be starting for the next 2-3 years (Countess) and our coaches are high on some of the young guys that didn't play much.
Or maybe (hopefully) we just added a number to our estimated total class size.
Just opinion but i feel we have the bodies in the secondary...just not sure if its the most talented group..id love to land a top FS and a 6ft or plus CB
Uhoh, did I unbuckle from this weekend prematurely?
This is Michigan fergodsakes! Stay buckled at all times!
treat this like airline safety. "Please remaind buckled at all times for you safety and the safety of the MGo Users around you."
DEFENSE BABY! DEFENSE! Last thing I ever want is visions of Troy Smith from watching Braxton Miller scramble. We need the LBs to face plant him when he tries.
I could have sworn half his recruiting roundup this morning was him saying how they were only taking two, and then a big explanation on how taking more than you say you're going to take makes recruits want to open up their recruiting. He flip-flopped fast. He's not even off the air yet.
Edit: Maybe I'm not getting this twitter thing, but your link doesn't have that tweet..his last tweet there was an hour ago.
I'm not sure what is going on with the link to Sam's twitter feed either. I am looking at my twitter home screen with all of the posters I follow and it is still there, however when I look at Sam's page or the Michigan Insider page who RT'd it, it isn't showing up. Maybe he removed it already.
"We're linebacker U!!!"
And not just
"Out helmets have wings on 'em"
Taking four LBs seems a bit of a stretch unless the coaches anticipate any of them to potentially move to DE or safety. Four linebackers would bring us to 17 commits for this class and we still need 1 RB, 1-2 WR, 1 DT, 1 CB, maybe 1 more TE, and maybe 1 more S.
Here's the linebacker corps in 2013:
Morgan - Ryan - the 2012 freshmen, Mike Jones, Isaiah Bell.
That leaves you with confidence? They need 3 or 4 linebackers.
Point taken but I feel better about that group than the 2013 WRs or TEs. I'd rather see an extra receiver in this class than 4 LBs.
Also Cam Gordon, no?
I'll believe Cam Gordon can play linebacker when it happens. I don't doubt he has the potential to do it, but it's yet to happen.
Wasn't Cam Gordon a freshman All-American (or something similar) as a linebacker?
He's the fastest linebacker and one of the biggest hitters on the team.
A season in the 3-3-5 as a frosh (1 of the few bright spots that year) and a season with a back injury is reason enough to write him off completely. I can't argue with that logic.
Well . . . believe it. Because it happened for the second half of the 2010 season.
But how in the world will it happen again without Greg Robinson coaching him?
Yes, and also Poole
But I think we're less not deep at LB than we are at some other positions, and 8 LBs is a LOT for two classes for a team that runs a 4-3 Under.
But yeah, that corp wouldn't freak me out. You've got two guys who have shown a lot of potential for three spots, and a great class that will be sophomores to fill one spot and depth, backed up by at least 2 more stud freshmen. That's a decent rotation in a 4-3.
But I wouldn't mind having more.
Dont forget about Antonio Poole he has bigtime potential
You forgot Poole who can develop into a solid WIL and in 2013 will be a red shirt Sophomore.
Morgan, Ryan, RJS, Bolden, Ringer, Ross, Jones, Bell, Antonio Poole, Cam Gordon, and the 2013 freshmen. That's 10 already on the roster. If we pull in 4 more this recruiting class, that's 14 on the roster for 2013. That seems a little on the high side for me for 3 positions. If we had 4.66 deep at every position, we'd need a scholarship limit of over 100, and that's not including kickers, punters, or longsnappers.
In 2013, the 2012 freshmen will be 2013 sophomores. I feel very comfortable with Ryan/Gordon, Bolden/RJS, Morgon/Ross as the two deep.
McCray could be SAM or DE and O'daniel can be a SS. There's a way we could take 4 lb's but really only have 2 stay at lb
I don't think O'Daniel would play SS for Michigan. He's been a linebacker, and usually guys don't move back in the defense. He seems like a WIILL or maybe a MIKE if he hits a growth spurt.
If you show O'daniel how Kovacs is used he can clearly see that you can play SS and still live in the box and make a ton of tackles
Kovacs was not used in the way that Mattison would like to use his safeties. He was used almost exclusively as an in-the-box safety because of his limitations in coverage. Mattison would like to have a SS he can use interchangeably with the FS, but that just wasn't the case. Michigan in 2011 was not the prototype for where Hoke/Mattison want the defense to be.
HS players tend to gain weight when they enter college, not lose it, and he's already at 205-210.
Would love to see us take all 4. If there's anyithing we need, in my opinion, its defense. These guys are studs and would make our defense very competitive in practice and on the field.
This means we won't be getting Gedeon any time soon. Don't hatevme for saying it, but it means the little play to pressure Gedeon into committing by saying McCray would take his spot failed. Gedeon was the one they wanted, so now they have to make room for both. That's what was happening if you read between the lines of what Webb was saying. Or...Webb might not have known what he was talking about to begin with. I'd believe that.
So the conspiracy to pressure one into coming so we could make sure we lost out on talent after that failed? Those dastardly coaches how dare they.
Webb predicted we would take either Gedeon or McCray, then hold out for Levenberry. McCray had hit announcement scheduled. Bringing Gedeon up was an attempt to pressure him into committing before McCray, which was the optimal result. It did not work. This is how Webb saw it. The inference would be that the coaches are reevaluating whether they would really cut Gedeon out.
This is not dissimilar to what happened with Reeves last year, before we temporarily stopped recruiting him during the summer.
And all of this is if you believe Sam Webb.
McCray's future definitely seems more promising at DE.
I don't know a 6'-4" linebacker that runs a 4.6 sounds pretty nice to me. Prescott Burgess reincarnation?
Burgess was a 6'3", 210 lb. safety coming out of high school. Not a 6'4", 240 lb. linebacker.
I was unaware that he was already 240 lbs. How about a Shawn Crable?
Nope, that won't work, either. Crable was a 5'11", 340 lb. defensive tackle coming out of high school.
They used to think we had a pizza training program....but look at that weight loss!! ;-)
But you'll probably tell be he was a 7'1 Power Forward/Third Baseman
At this rate I can't wait for Norfleet to start at Left Tackle.
Rivals has him at 6'6", 230 lb...
That's the wrong Shawn Crable, surely.
Oh MAGS stop!! . . . . You're tooo much
Crable was a 6'6" 230 DE, you made me double take
Technically wrong, yes.
But the bigger question seems to be whether I was serious or not.
I agree with this train of thought. There is a definite possibility that he moves to DE in a few years. Watch Jake Ryan's years at Michigan, McCray's could be very similar.
The tweet, or whatever the hell it's called has been removed. I think and believe it should be only 2 lb's for 2013.
He removed it because in his words " it became quickly apparent that not all of the kids have been told " of this change of direction.
He'd be the same sort of backfield presence as Wyatt Shallman, wouldn't he?
Anyway, it wouldn't bother me if we loaded up with 3-4 players of that quality. It is guys like that who make up the guts of special teams anyway. And, as a Michigan fan who's been around long enough, I can recall years when we were a bit desperate for more depth at Linebacker. I'm amazed at how lucky we've been, that Desmond Morgan has been such a surprisingly high-performer, and that we got throught the year with so few injuries at the LB position.
I feel good about taking 4 LBs. Some players just don't produce, some get hurt, or are just overrated and become special teams vets. In a position that is as important as LB we should be very stout.
They need to take all 4. Not even a question about it at all.
Your logic is impeccable.
I am fairly certain this means that McCray is a Michigan lock
Maybe their caution in the amount of linebackers they're taking is they're worried he might flip. Of all the guys we've gotten, he'd be the one I'd worry the most about.
IMO we clear up some room by not offering Bell and Jones 5th years. Also, it seems to me like we could use a little help at WR now, and wasn't Cam Gordon a WR out of highschool? Anyone think there is a chance he switches back now that Desmond Morgan and Jake Ryan have filled the void?
Gordon is still going to get a chance at SAM, from what Mattison said. Paskorz is at TE now and Beyer is a WDE, so it's basically Ryan and more true freshmen if you don't keep Gordon at SAM.
The problem with Cam at WR was his speed, and this was before he put on about 25+ pounds. I doubt he has increased his speed enough to return to WR, and as Magnus pointed out, the SAM isn't as deep with the current position switches.
I think we should take 2 and move on to other positions of need. Any of them will be fine additions, but we took 4 excellent LBs last year, possibly 5 considering Mario's size and speed, so taking 4 this year isn't necessary. However, if there are defections and we end up with 24 (+/-) spots then hell yes take all of these great LBs.
somewhere in here this means we take 3 DT's
We are going to be one hellva defensive team. Im loving it. I would like to see one elite CB in this class.
Dantonio is gonna shit his pants when he sees the LB haul we get.
I'm fully convinced that he poos his underpants every single day. That's the only reason someone could walk around that angry 365 days a year.
Ever? If there was ever a case for massive constipation, he is it.
Cue the 3-4 scheme comments...
4-3 versus 3-4: THE FINAL WORD. "We'd be here for hours" if someone tried to argue him away from playing the 4-3 under. Said something along the lines of "if you've got that 330 pound nose tackle and your ends and your linebackers, okay, God bless you." I thought of Pipkins—what is Mattison going to do with a 330 pound nose? Anyway, Greg Mattison will never run a 3-4. End of story.
What you can really read from this is the following. Michigan would really like to take 2 LB's. The one they really want is Levenberry as he could play 1 of 2 positions and he could start at both SAM and MIKE. He is the bigtime recruit they wanted, but decided to offer others as is always the case. The other one that they really like is Gedeon because of versitility as well and the fact he is going to be a BEAST and Hoke and Mattison know it. McCray is a good player and they will take him if he commits. The one that kind of puzzles me is the O'Daniel offer as he seems like WILL or possibly Mike if he grows. Just an opinion.
I know this is off topic, but is this guy the same Allen Trieu?
Lulz, he's about as good as Sweet Dee from Sunny.
yes it is Sam Webb talked about it a while ago that he does comedy
He's had some tweets in the past about other comedy shows. Apparently he's a multi-talented dude.
Is he any good?
Thats got to be McCray . . . . anyone know about how big Mr. Cam Gordon has gotten to be?
I think McCray ends up at DE by the time he's an upperclasman, so I have no problem taking 3-4.
Last year the 4 Lb's we took were all slated for Mike and Will. This year at least 3 of the 4 we lead for could be slated for Sam or DE. Gideon is a freak athlete and kind of reminds me of Jake Ryan and could play Sam. McCray according to Rivals is already 6-4 230 and could easily become a rush end. Ej levenberry could seemingly play either Mike or grow into a Sam and is just too good to turn down. O'Daniel looks like a Will all the way. If we define Lb in the traditional sense (mike or will) then we may only still take 1 or 2 while being able to grab all 4 of these talents.
Edit: sorry guys didn't read the rest of the comments which say basically what I'm saying here.
look for ross to move to safety.
This sounds promising. I think our LB group might be better than it was last year.