Safety (or lack thereof) in Football

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January 28th, 2013 at 11:06 PM
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MGoBender
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Safety (or lack thereof) in Football

(I actually thought a recent topic had something worth discussing, however, the OP included something banned on these boards... Let's try this again).

A certain prominent public figure recent spoke about the future of football.

The Raven's Bernard Pollard said recently that he does not believe the NFL will exist in 30 years.

I have a few questions for discussion:

1. Would you feel OK about your son (real or theoretical) playing football? To what degree?

2. To what extent do you believe football can survive, as is?

3. What would you do to try to save the sport?

 

My responses:

1. I would discourage my theoretical son from playing football. While at the end of the day, it would be his choice, I'd encourage soccer or fall-ball baseball for an autumn sport. If he chose to play football, I would be a pretty worried person everyday.

 

2. Every year something changes and I don't think that will stop any time soon. So, no I think 10-15 years from now the game will be different.

 

3. I'd make hitting illegal.  If you do not attempt to wrap up with your arms and instead launch your body (whether you make contact with your shoulder or helmet), it would be a personal foul. 2 of them and you're ejected. 

Yeah, big hits are exciting. But how often do we lament the player going for the big hit and failing to bring down the ball carrier? I think we can eliminate hitting without taking too much away from the game.

CoE Class of 2007

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January 28th, 2013 at 11:13 PM | These type of topic always (Score:3 Normal)
swan flu
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Joined: 08/16/2010
MGoPoints: 1114

These type of topic always make me feel a bit silly because I think everyone posting is much more concerned with letting others know their opinions rather than listening to others. But hey, I'm a cynical ass hole. Anyway...

1) as a kicker. My wife and I are each below 5'5" so my answer here is moot.
2) as long as there's money there it will be successful as is. The players will continue to play because athletes have an invincibility complex when they are young and healthy.
3) I can't honestly think of anything that would make the game "safe" and keep me as interested in it as I am now.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

January 28th, 2013 at 11:16 PM | Just re-read and realized my (Score:2 Normal)
swan flu
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Just re-read and realized my answer to #2 is pretty dumb. What I meant is: I don't think it will change much because the owners and the league will not want to change something that is making them lots of money.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

January 29th, 2013 at 4:43 AM | I don't know what you (Score:2 Funny)
SteveE
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I don't know what you apologized for; you're right. Football is a gladiator sport. There will always be money in that, and the top football players will continue to see themselves as the best or potential best because that is what it takes to succeed.

If you don't think you can wreck your opponent, you will lose. That is how football works. Sure rules change, but the key to football will always be destroying the guy across from you. If that changes, then we may as well call it synchronized dancing... or professional shlong stroking.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:14 PM | Advocate of soccer (Score:1)
Hokemaniac24
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Advocate of soccer here.  As much as I love football, this kind of stuff is what soccer needs to gain popularity here. But I can't really say I'm happy with the price payed, though. I need football.

2013 will be the year.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:41 PM | I'm not a soccer fan, but it (Score:2)
MichGoBlue858
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I'm not a soccer fan, but it won't be popular in the US until the MLS becomes a premier league. Of the people I know who love soccer, they all follow European teams which means they can't go to games. Soccer won't become popular by people following European teams.  

January 28th, 2013 at 11:53 PM | Actually, the some of the (Score:4 Normal)
Dominick's_Lunch
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Actually, the some of the latest studies of long term head trams stem from soccer. ALS amung soccer pros later in life is comparable to football. Heading crosses is as bad repeatedly as hits. Google it, there are like five guys from one Italian team who all have Lou Gehrigs Disease.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:17 PM | LULZ. (Score:-1 Normal)
January 28th, 2013 at 11:27 PM | http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_ne (Score:5 Normal)
swan flu
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http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03/15651165-contact-sports-leave...

That article references a study published in a peer-reviewed medical journal that concluded that contact sports (specifically football) create a distinct and predictable pattern of CTE.

Now if you call a peer reviewed medical journal anecdotal evidence then I got two words for ya.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

January 28th, 2013 at 11:28 PM | And this was football at all (Score:3 Normal)
club_med
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And this was football at all levels - including youth, college and pro players.

the crowds on the shore will always yell "Let's Go Blue."

January 28th, 2013 at 11:37 PM | "[Dr. Stern] cautioned the (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 28th, 2013 at 11:44 PM | Well aren't you just the king (Score:5 Normal)
swan flu
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Well aren't you just the king of straw men.

I never said this study means parents should keep their kids out of football. I simply provided a piece of actual evidence linking football and CTE. I don't give a shit what you do with your kids and neither do the doctors who conducted this study. The difference between lay people and scientists is that scientists know about the dangers of overextending the conclusions they make, and, thus, don't make blanket statements as the conclusions of their hard work.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

January 28th, 2013 at 11:58 PM | Sorry; NOT a strawman. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:28 AM | DB (Score:2 Normal)
jdon
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why do you come here?  I mean do you get any enjoyment at all about argueing with different posters all the time?  Or are you such a miserable cunt that this is just your thing and you actually enjoy arguing with people all day?

pathetic either way.

 

We are the dead.

January 29th, 2013 at 12:42 AM | Cool it with the names. (Score:4 Normal)
justingoblue
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It's not that hard to express feelings without resorting to that kind of stuff.

Go Blue!

January 29th, 2013 at 2:31 AM | I was almost worried I'd get (Score:1 Normal)
strafe
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I was almost worried I'd get through a day on MgoBlog without seeing any casual misogyny. Thank God for user jdon!

i should probably stop posting on mgoblog when I'm drunk.

January 29th, 2013 at 7:31 PM | casual misogyny? (Score:1)
jdon
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I don't even know what that means but I love the hoes so don't ever think of me as a misogynist.

We are the dead.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:27 PM | I wonder if there are (Score:1 Normal)
MGoBender
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I wonder if there are playing-career ending concussions in the collegiate game, but they just don't make as big of headlines.

Perhaps the difference in player speed and size at the next level is the tipping point? Good questions that probably don't have provable answers.

CoE Class of 2007

January 28th, 2013 at 11:36 PM | Jahvid Best (Score:1 Normal)
I Like Burgers
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While Jahvid Best's concussions in college didn't end his career at Cal, they were enough to cut short his junior year and raise a bunch of red flags about how long he'd last in the NFL with those issues.  The people questioning it, wound up being right.  Dude made it one season in the NFL and is now done at the age of 23 because of serious head problems that started in college.  God knows what kind of shitty life he'll have as a result.

Hot dogs are the devil.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:50 PM | I think that's more of a knock on the Detroit Lions (Score:2)
ShruteBeetFarms
Joined: 09/25/2010
MGoPoints: 1529

for drafting him. The guy missed quite a few games his junior year for that hit he took.

"I'm not a vegetarian b/c I love animals. I'm a vegetarian b/c I hate plants"

January 29th, 2013 at 12:24 AM | More of a knock? (Score:3 Normal)
Hokemania
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The Lions took a risk with the downside being a lost 2nd and whatever they traded to move up draft pick. Best took a risk with the downside being a large decrease in quality of life.

Whatcha gonna do, little brother?

January 28th, 2013 at 11:36 PM | There are likely tons of (Score:4 Normal)
jg2112
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There are likely tons of examples, but the quickest one I can think of in ones reported up here in the Twin Cities. Jimmy Gjere, a ESPN 150 commit to MN in 2010, retired from football last fall because of repeated concussions. He was 6'8", 325 pounds, and a redshirt freshman.

You might also remember one Mike Williams from Michigan. MGoBlog is a big fan of the guy. His career ended because of the ole concussion issue.

Same with Steven Threet.

Those are the first three who come to mind.

 

January 28th, 2013 at 11:41 PM | Different argument. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 28th, 2013 at 11:46 PM | Sorry, (Score:5 Normal)
Mr Miggle
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but now you're just being a jackass. Forget your locked topic and stay with this one.

Eating is murder.

January 29th, 2013 at 12:10 AM | Tell it to somebody who cares. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:12 AM | I for one welcome your (Score:5 Normal)
Bando Calrissian
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I for one welcome your efforts to earn a speedy trip to Bolivia.

January 29th, 2013 at 4:12 AM | why? (Score:2 Normal)
DeathToTheBCS
Joined: 02/16/2011
MGoPoints: 274

football, along with hockey, rugby, and soccer are all sports that involve the inherent risk of repeted head contact. I understand the argument made against them, but these people choose to play the game, they are not being forced are gun point (at least not in this country)

 

1. Would you feel OK about your son (real or theoretical) playing football? To what degree?

I would encourage my son to play football all through high school. Having played through high school I know the invaluable lessons in teamwork, respect for the rules and of the community that supports you, and the comrodery I still share to this day with my high school teammates. There were much more life lessons beyond the glory on the field. I would very much encourage my son to partake in that.

2. To what extent do you believe football can survive, as is?

I'm not sure, I dont know enough about the lawsuits of the former players enough to pass judegment, but I think that if the league can institute a waiver that exempts them from responsibiltiy of injuries, the future of the league can go on. As of now, I dont think the public has much sympathy for guys that made tens of millions of dollars then end up having some head trauma and a life of pain because of the way they chose to make the fortuens they did. Will that discourage fans as much as the INSANE ticket prices? We shall see.

 

3. What would you do to try to save the sport?

I think the sport itself doesnt need "saving" per se. Football just needs a little better PR. All you hear about football is the off field issues and the trouble guys get into, you never hear about the Zoltan Mesko and the Victor Cruz, or even the Suh community outreach stories in the national news. That stuff doesnt sell papers, which is quite unfortunate. Other than that, I think the league is doing what it can.

Wherever you go, Go Blue!

January 28th, 2013 at 11:49 PM | Quality of life = poor (Score:1 Normal)
I Like Burgers
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If your head injuries are bad enough that you have to quit football, you can be fairly sure that your normal day-to-day activities are also going to be impacted.  If you didn't see it, check out what head injuries have done to Leroy Hoard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnfzNjDvkj8

Hot dogs are the devil.

January 28th, 2013 at 11:59 PM | Waiting for counter (Score:4 Normal)
willywill9
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Waiting for counter argument... Probably "but said politician said there were stories, I need examples of someone who had this happen WHILE IN COLLEGE" (b/c CTE's are instantaneous.

Touchdown Michigan!

January 29th, 2013 at 12:06 AM | Dumbest effing comment of the night. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:09 AM | Wait is that for me? On my (Score:5 Normal)
willywill9
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Wait is that for me? On my iPhone can't tell.. Dude, I tried being civil with you but you constantly resort to childish responses to my posts. You're getting worked up over nothing. You've had about 30 posts today and i still don't understand what your concern/beef/issue is. Clearly state your point, read people's counterpoints, respect others opinions, defend your argument etc., but no need to be immature.

Touchdown Michigan!

January 29th, 2013 at 12:23 AM | Don't you realize that CTE (Score:4 Normal)
beardog07
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Don't you realize that CTE probably goes largely unreported and takes a long time to fully manifest itself?

my avatar is me

January 29th, 2013 at 12:40 AM | Yes I do realize that. (Score:1 Normal)
Section 1
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And I am no more willing to predict that it will happen in any particular cohort of patients than I would be willing to deny that it will happen in any particular cohort.

Some of you guys think that I am arguing over the basic medicine behind CTE.  I'm not.  I am just saying that the news media's freakout over the anecdotal high-publicity cases involving NFL stars don't inform us in any way of any serious epidemiology regarding collegiate players who never played in the NFL.

 

 

January 29th, 2013 at 1:19 PM | This is a good point, (Score:2)
Profwoot
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This is a good point, actually, but you seem to be arguing it for the sake of stroking your ego. High profile events are often the only way to get people thinking about systemic problems. Yes, this sucks; I will lament this phenomenon with you. Meanwhile, I support dealing with this problem, regardless of how attention was brought to it.

January 29th, 2013 at 3:23 PM | No, I think you misunderstand. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:31 AM | Wow (Score:5 Normal)
BlastBeat88
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After defending you throughout the past regime, I can very confidently tell you to go screw yourself.

The folks on this board (well, most) have exactly one thing in common: enjoyment of Michigan sports. Other than that, a great deal of us probably hate each other. Being a member of a Michigan sports blog doesn't say anything about anyone as a person.

So no, you don't get to whine about prodding the sleeping dragon...and then doing it over and over again. The mods exhibit quality control over specific topics FOR A GODDAMN REASON, and all you did tonight was bitch and moan like a five-year-old about those restricted topics.

No excuses. Play like a champion.

http://www.gundaymonday.com

January 29th, 2013 at 12:45 AM | Wow. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:48 AM | I expected this (Score:5 Normal)
BlastBeat88
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Now you're just throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get your virtual way. Sorry, being a douche who won't let little irrelevant things go stopped being cool in middle school.

No excuses. Play like a champion.

http://www.gundaymonday.com

January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 AM | Are you always like this? (Score:5 Normal)
HELLE
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I thought you were just an opinionated old man. Today you are being an ass. Be cool, this is supposed to be a spirited conversation.

Go Blue!

January 29th, 2013 at 12:11 AM | He really didn't look too (Score:2 Normal)
gutnedawg
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 359

He really didn't look too hard. In October 2010, 17-year-old Nathan Stiles died hours after his high school homecoming football game, where he took a hit that would be the final straw in a series of subconcussive and concussive blows to the head for the high schooler. The CSTE diagnosed him with CTE, making him the youngest reported CTE case to date

/°>

 

January 29th, 2013 at 12:26 AM | Is that really "Chronic Traumatic Encephelopathy"? (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 1:04 AM | Alright try this one. An (Score:2 Normal)
gutnedawg
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 359

Alright try this one. An autopsy conducted in 2010 on the brain of Owen Thomas, a 21-year-old junior lineman at the University of Pennsylvania who committed suicide, showed early stages of CTE

/°>

 

January 29th, 2013 at 12:03 AM | After 10 years of pounding in the NFL. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 28th, 2013 at 11:42 PM | It's tougher to dig up since (Score:2)
M Fanfare
Joined: 08/17/2008
MGoPoints: 1562

It's tougher to dig up since college football isn't centralized like the NFL is and there is such a vast number of players compared to the NFL, but a few Google searches will turn up stories about college football players leaving the game due to concussions. My own half-assed search turned up cases in the last 6 or 7 years at Nebraska, Syracuse, two at Colorado, and one in high school.

Hail to the college whose colors we wear,

Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!

January 29th, 2013 at 12:10 AM | Let's also not forget what (Score:2)
Bando Calrissian
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MGoPoints: 7921

Let's also not forget what happened with Sam McGuffie under our program's watch.  He had, what, three concussions his freshman year, then all of the sudden started having problems with depression.  One can only hope that kid isn't on a segment of Outside the Lines in a decade or two facing the same issues Leroy Hoard is facing.

I'll also add Ron Johnson to the mix.  Probably top-5 all-time Michigan RB, graduated after the '68 season, and now lives in a home for people facing early-onset dementia.  He literally cannot remember his playing days.

These things happen.  And these things happen to our guys.

January 29th, 2013 at 12:31 AM | Ron Johnson... (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:31 AM | Yes it does. Daydrion Taylor (Score:2)
M Fanfare
Joined: 08/17/2008
MGoPoints: 1562

Yes it does. Daydrion Taylor comes to mind.

Hail to the college whose colors we wear,

Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!

January 28th, 2013 at 11:49 PM | Mike Williams, Michigan (Score:2)
Bando Calrissian
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Mike Williams, Michigan Safety.  Left the team in 2010 after one too many concussions.   It got tons of headlines, even got a thread here, if memory serves.

January 29th, 2013 at 12:36 AM | Okay. (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 29th, 2013 at 12:02 AM | Here's a story for you (Score:4 Normal)
DakotaBlue
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Joined: 12/30/2010
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/09/14/thomas.football.brain/index.html

Besides, the effects of brain injury may not be seen until years later.  It's not just NFL guys like Leroy Hoard who suffer later in life.  For guys who never go pro, there is indeed "nothing to fall back on." The NCAA doesn't provide health benefits for former players who suffer from the after-effects of football, like getting dementia in their 50s.

January 29th, 2013 at 1:12 AM | So how many are there like that? (Score:-1 Trolling)
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