And yet arguably the two best QBs in the league are from the Big Ten.
Sad/Crazy Big Ten Stat
I could give a shit if they were no 1. Bree's and Brady. Enough said.
Grantland, it is, does some hard hitting reporting, it is
To answer your question:
17 years and 0 number 1 picks?
No. It's been 17 years since a Big10 QB has been taken in the first, but the Big10 has produced a #1 pick since then. Jake Long, for one, was taken #1 overall.
Joe Thomas from Wisconsin, too. He was the #3 overall pick in the '07 draft.
You guys appear serious. Obviously the Big Ten has had 1st rd draft picks. The article is about quarterbacks.
Likewise, you also appear serious. Re-read the article; it is about conference expansion at the expense of seemingly every other factor save revenue.
A pet peeve of mine is when announcers use the phrase #1 pick for someone in the first round. They weren't a #1 pick, they were maybe that teams first pick.
Whew, glad I got that out.
your saying Morris is going to be the exception to this?
Yes, but it won't be nearly as cool since it will only be a few years after Gardner!
Matter? Even the QBs he mentioned weren't first round picks and I think they are doing ok
Well, it's an article about college football, so I think the point is that the "hype" of first round talent doesn't circulate around the Big Ten. People pay to watch good quarterbacks play, but the good quarterbacks often come from the Pac-12 (Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, Mark Sanchez, Matt Barkley, etc.), the Big 12 (Vince Young, Robert Griffin III, Sam Bradford), or the SEC (Peyton Manning, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton).
It's the same reason that I don't think Michigan's #1 pass defense is extremely impressive; it's impressive, but not WOW impressive. The quarterbacks in the Big Ten just aren't very good, and the guys putting up the best numbers overall (Denard Robinson, Braxton Miller, Taylor Martinez, etc.) are dual-threat guys who may or may not play quarterback at the next level.
I'm not too sure about that Magnus. You know the old saying "you can't stop Caleb Terbush....you can only slow him down."
Well we slowed him down all right....and nobody can ever take that away from us!!!!!
Sanchise and Tebow? You referenced one of the most terrible QB tandems I've seen in recent years. I may as well counter with Curtis Painter, Kyle Orton, and Chad Henne.
I'm talking about college production; they were good in college. Just not so much in the NFL...
And furthermore, your reference to the SEC accounts for 2 crappy QBs, one which is not even a starter. According to your list, the Big 12 has two starters - one less than the Big 10. I mean, holy shit, Matt Barkley isn't even in the NFL yet. Let's just play MSU and assume he is going to take over somewhere and make the offense BETTIR!!! This is just a dumb argument and I feel stupid for getting involved in it.
I don't care about the NFL with respect to this discussion. I'm talking about college. People pay to watch good quarterbacks. Fans like to go see Matt Barkley, Tim Tebow, etc. when they're playing in college.
Notice that this article is about the Big Ten, a college football conference. That's my focus, not the next level.
that denard guy didn't bring any excitement. no one wants to see him. i will take the big 10 QBs over the SEC QBs the past several years, especially college production.
Nice straw man. Because I totally said that Denard Robinson didn't create excitement, didn't I?
Not saying he didn't straw man you there, but people pay to see denard, Martinez, and miller. They are not jake locker, Barkley, griffin, or Bradford in the level of excitement and hype each of those brought to the passing game, but one of your references was tebow who is possibly one of the greatest college QBs of all time but everyone save the broncos former head coach (McDaniels?) that he wasn't a viable nfl QB. Denard has been all over ESPN; you are varying back and forth between talent and excitement. Yes, the Big Ten hasn't had as much talent pkaying QB over the years but the clip the op listed above seems to make the argument that the Big Ten has inferior QB play because it has less first round buzz. Although going in the first round tends to indicate a certain level of talent, there are a myriad of factors playing into what leads to a good NFL QB. You mentioned several Big 12 QBs; however, the Big 12 is notorious for forgetting to play defense. That makes it easier to be an elite college QB and get picked earlier. I agree with you that overall Big Ten QB play is not as competitive as some of the other conferences so you can't just say we have Brady and Brees and say we hold our own against other conferences; however, saying that the Big Ten lacks QB talent based on lack of 1st round prospects doesn't tell the full story to Big Ten competitive struggles. When it comes to producing NFL QB talent probably no conference has an advantage. When Ben Rotheslberger, jake cutler, joe flacco, tony romo, and Alex smith are starting QBs in the NFL it supports the notion that finding talented QBs who translate from the college level is incredibly difficult.
So two of the elite NFL QB's are from the B1G but they don't count because they were born outside of it? Seems a bit off. B1G still puts forth a bunch of pros. The larger problems deal with facilities, coaching salaries, etc... IMO.
Either way, having two good/elite QBs out of 32 starting QB spots ain't exactly impressive. If you want to count Russ Wilson's 1 year at Wisconsin as a Big Ten QB, then you've got three B10 QBs out of 32 teams. Still not good. And since Brady and Brees entered the league in 2000 and 2001, its been a while since the Big Ten has produced a decent QB. With the QB talent that's in the Big Ten at the moment, that's not something that's going to change any time soon.
Let's go ahead and count Henne, as he is a starter.
While we are at it, let's just look at the guys like Romo and Roethlisberger. It's not like the score SEC 28, B10 4. You ESPN talking heads. This is a stupid non argument.
Good to know though I guess. Looking forward to my new paycheck.
Umm Jake Long
This is not one of the all-time great Ohio State teams, but they are far better than any of their conference brethren even now; it makes me think that, if Meyer does not once again burn out his psyche on a hotel-room carpet, the Buckeyes will dominate the Big Ten for at least the remainder of the decade. With the possible exception of an aberrant Michigan or Wisconsin squad here or there, I cannot see anyone consistently challenging them.
3 point win against 7 loss Indiana, 1 point against 5 loss Sparty, OT needed to beat both 6 loss Purdue and Wisconsin's third string quaterback. Yes, genius, they're far better.
is a black hole of logical thinking
...........to Meyer's time at UF. He went there and won repeatedly with mostly Zook's recruits. When his own recruits came "of age", so to speak, other than an outlier or two, UF started getting worse, competitively. Some of that may be from other SEC schools getting better, but I put most of that on UF.
And all that as UF was still getting top-flite recruits.
My guess is that Meyer has a handful of good years at OSU before they "come back down to earth".
But your point about their wins stands. I'm not sure how one could even state that winning by such small margins, some of them with lots of luck involved(or just plain bad coaching moves by the opposing coaches), constitutes OSU being "far better" than any of the other conference schools.
Here's hoping that UM brings them back down to earth quickly with a win in Columbus.
It is all about players, but the downturn you talk about only lasted two years (Meyers' last and Muschamp's first). UF is back in the top-10 again this year with Meyer recruits. It is looking more and more like the downturn had less to do with burnout or Meyer not recruiting well and more to do with Cam Newton transferring.
if newton didn't transfer, he would have graduated with tebow, right? or am i off a year.
Tebow was in the 2006 class. Newton was in the 2007 class. Including a redshirt, Newton would have had two years between him and Newton.
This is just one of many ways in which it was a completely smarmy, cherry-picking, screed of an article. The guy either has no real clue what is going on or his sarcasm has completely overridden any actual substance.
Close wins or not, at least they've won all their games. It's more than you can say about any other B10 team.
I try not to argue against reality.
But can anyone look at OSU and think they're head and shoulders above their BIG competition? They have one good conference win, against Nebraska. Other than that, they blew out Illinois (who hasn't?), beat PSU by double digits, and have the four wins I mentioned above. PSU is ok, not spectacular. Plus their non-conference schedule was garbage.
If Denard didn't get hurt against Nebraska and UM played OSU's out of conference schedule, you think UM would be any worse than 10-1?
Ohio State is total garbage and Michigan is going to blow them out Saturday.
I know this is the internet, but you could try discussing what I actually said. My contention was not that they suck or that they aren't among the best teams in the B1G this year. Clearly they are.
My contention is that they're not "far better" than all of their conference opponents, poised to dominate the conference for the next decade (save an "aberrant" good year here and there from Michigan or Wisconsin).
In conference, OSU is 7-0, with four wins decided by a field goal or overtime. They're having a very good season, results-wise, but they aren't exactly dominating. This is my point.
the 9(!) QB's who started in week 11 were from Texas. That's a pretty crazy stat
who gives a shit where the players come from
Moms living in Texas?
Cool, B1G teams have such a national profile that top recruits from all over the country want to come here. That's fantastic
This isn't 1956 anymore. Programs recruit nationally, especially elite programs like Michigan and OSU.
This is just stupid.
in the NFL during that time also include Tim Couch and JeMarcus Russell.
!ESS EEE SEE!
- Ryan Leaf
- Akili Smith
- Cade McNown
- Jim Druckenmiller
Woodson, Woodley, Hutch, Yanda, Chandler, Urbik, Kelsay, Suh, Cofield, Kerrigan, Watt... the list goes on and on.
Just because they aren't taken first doesn't mean shit.
Apparently I needed to focus your thinking. You are right who cares where players come from. The crazy stat is that not 1 quarterback from the Big Ten has been drafted in the 1st rd in 17 years. You can spin stats all you want(Chad Henne was the 1st pick of the 2nd rd, Tom Brady!!), but not having a 1st rd pick from a marque conference is pretty weird/depressing for our league.
Chad Henne was the first pick of the second round in '08. I guess not technically first round, but as close as you can get. Plus, because the Pats lost their first round pick that year, it was 32nd overall.
But we'll ignore that and say, yeah, the Big Ten hasn't produced anyone good, ever.
Stupid article, stupid topic.
I have a count of 4 from the ACC (including BC, which isn't exactly the same "region"), 4 from the Big Ten (3 if you think Chad Henne is in because of injury, not because Blaine sucks), 5 from the Big 12, 8 from the Pac-12 (though 3 are from USC, and 1 is from Utah who wasn't even in the conference when their QB played there), 6 from the SEC (7 if you consider Gabbert the starter...but then he and the A&M QB weren't exactly SEC players either), and 6 from non-BCS (sometimes tiny program) schools. So what's wrong with BCS conferences that they're all being matched by the have not's?!?!?
Where they're drafted is stupid. Because other than a couple of sure fire guys who come through, they're more often wrong than right. Who is actually playing? Seems there's a pretty good breakdown between the major conferences within a couple of players, outside the USC outlier. And frankly, they prove the point, because they've had one first round pick after another, but none of them have been particularly great.
from B1G high schools that did not go to B1G schools:
'97 - #17 Druckenmiller, VT, from PA
'99 - #2 McNabb, Syr, from Illinois
'03 - #22 Grossman, Fla, from Indiana
'04 - #11 Roethlisburger (?), Miami (OH) from Ohio
'07 - #22 Quinn, ND from Ohio
'08 - #3 Matt Ryan, BC, from PA
if you include the new footprint, you can add
'03 - #7 Leftwich, Mar, from DC
'08 - #18 Flacco, Del from NJ
granted, it might not be the biggest list of stars, but if the article suggests that the B1G's problems are because there are not enough talented high school QBs in the geographical footprint, i think that this demonstrates that is not true.
I was just too lazy. But it really is a knock on the article when it makes a point of discounting QB's from other areas.
there are only 42 1st round QBs in this span, some years there were 0.
We don't have anyone to match up with the likes of Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, JP Losman, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Chad Pennington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, or Jim Drunkenmiller?
How ever will Tom Brady and Drew Brees survive this shame?
Thank goodness we've got Rutgers in the fold.
Espn is a steaming pile. Bleacher report is better than this.
That's a dumb article.
This is one of those stats that doesn't mean much. There have been studies, both anecdotal as well as more rigorous, that show the difference in speed between the conferences, whether it be at the skill positions or overall, is trivial, and in some cases the SEC isn't even the fastest.
And the number of Big 10 players drafted in the first round is similar to other conferences despite two of the conference's best teams (UM and OSU) suffering through some controversies that deflated their usual draft production. So yes, the Big 10 hasn't had a first round QB taken in some time, but it has produced a fair number of elite signal callers, as well as other elite players, just like every other conference. I think the Big 10 has become the popular whipping boy for certain media outlets because it is lazy shorthand, not because there are factual reasons behind it. I like grantland for its sport-people articles, but its "hard" news about football, outside of Barnwell, has always been lacking to me.
EDIT: And btw, he also dismisses the Big 10 as a basketball conference, despite having quite a few top-ranked programs and a history of success in the tournament. But no, that would disrupt the ACC and Big East narrative, the latter a super-conference that too benefits from expansion despite questions of the competitive effects early on.
Asking how many #1 overall pick qb's the B1G has put out recently (and further asking how many were also born geographically within the B1G conference) is a pretty silly stat to fret about. How many QB's are taken #1 every year? Oh right. 1. Sometimes none. How many of them bust? Half? A qb being taken first is mostly predicated on the worst team wanting a qb over another type of player, and many crappy teams repeatedly turn top picks into bad picks year after year, too. Michigan had a player be the #1 overall pick just a few years ago, if I remember correctly, and the B1G has had more than its fair share of top 5 picks, and tons of 1st round picks.
How many offensive lineman have come from this conference?
B1G 1st round picks since 1995:
- 14 tackles
- 1 guard (Hutchinson--1st round guards are rare)
- 2 centers (of 8 total in the timespan)
Just because you have the ability to post a link to an article doesn't mean you should. What a waste of space.
Drew Henson would have been the #1 overall pick after his senior season had he not chose to play baseball.