yes plz
Run, don't walk, to read Jonathan Chait's take.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:13 AM | 
Then,
Then,
May 26th, 2010 at 9:29 AM |
Ummm . . . I'd say it does.
Ummm . . . I'd say it does.
Ummm . . . I'd say it does. There's no post-season ban, scholarship reductions, or vacated wins. They're not exactly dropping the hammer on us (or, actually, we're not exactly dropping the hammer on ourselves).
May 26th, 2010 at 8:38 AM |
Using steroids for
Using steroids for
Using steroids for non-medical purposes is illegal and its clearly unethical in society at large. Being present while someone is stretching, while against the rules, is not illegal nor is it unethical.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:44 AM |
ethical - conforming to
ethical - conforming to
ethical - conforming to accepted professional standards of conduct
I'd say that since this broke the rules of the coaching profession, it was unethical.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:49 AM |
For it to be
For it to be
unehical, they would have had to knowingly break the rules.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:04 AM |
And maybe they did know the
And maybe they did know the
And maybe they did know the rules and chose to break them, anyway.
We know what they said, but it isn't necessarily the truth.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:51 AM |
Magnus
Magnus
I'm going to go out on a limb here; I think you just like to argue.
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
May 26th, 2010 at 9:54 AM |
Yes, not understanding that
Yes, not understanding that
Yes, not understanding that being on the field while players are stretching converts that activity from non-countable to countable is unethical.
I suppose, it's also unethical for Jake Long to get called for holding. I mean, holding does not "conform to accepted professional standards of conduct" for offensive linemen. I'm no coach but that's what the dictionary says so...I guess that means Jake Long is a cheating scoundrel.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:01 AM |
Okay, let's go with the Long
Okay, let's go with the Long
Okay, let's go with the Long reference:
If he doesn't get caught, other players will call him dirty.
If he does get caught, his team loses 10 yards.
So technically, yes, he would be cheating. And he would be penalized when caught. Just like Michigan.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:04 AM |
But,
But,
Long knows that holding is against the rules.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:07 AM |
Yes . . . and?
The
Yes . . . and?
The
Yes . . . and?
The dictionary says it's unethical. Therefore, I guess it's unethical. Unless we're going to argue about what words mean in the dictionary. And that sounds pointless.
May 26th, 2010 at 3:42 PM |
.
.
.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:20 AM |
Correct and by your arguement
Correct and by your arguement
Correct and by your arguement he would be an unethical scoundrel.
So, is Nick Saban's practice of oversigning players ethical behavior? It's not against the rules. Therefore, O let's do it!
May 26th, 2010 at 10:06 AM |
Also
Also
Long would have to deliberately hold. Sometimes it happens without your trying.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:09 AM |
You're losing me, skunk
You're losing me, skunk
You're losing me, skunk bear. I think you're taking the Long metaphor a little too far. A split-second decision to hold or not to hold is much different than what happened at Michigan. There's a point where this metaphor breaks down, and you've reached that point.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:22 AM |
Ok,
Ok,
for it to be unethical, it has to be deliberate. There must be intent. Michigan didn't know it was violating the rules. They discussed it with compliance. The rules are arcane. They made a mistake. But, they didn't "cheat".
May 26th, 2010 at 10:26 AM |
And even so (whether it's
And even so (whether it's
And even so (whether it's "unethical" or not), the rules were broken and should be penalized.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:47 AM |
And
And
'Round and 'round we go.
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
May 26th, 2010 at 10:37 AM |
I guess,
I guess,
that I'm really arguing the punishment not the guilt. I see extenuating circumstances and believe that the "fact" that "everybody" does it is a mitigating factor.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:53 AM |
But that "fact" that
But that "fact" that
But that "fact" that "everybody' does it is an anecdotal comment, not a studied, proven fact.
If Indiana doesn't do it, then dammit, I'd be a pissed-off Hoosier because that was a close loss.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:15 AM |
Actually, it is.
Actually, it is.
The Michigan Athletic department benchmarked itself against other programs and found that their misunderstanding of the limitations of QC staff is not isolated unto themselves. It is studied, it is proven.
But, then again, we can't necessarily trust what they say because, as you've argued so convincingly, the University of Michigan is riddled with unethical people.
May 26th, 2010 at 12:09 PM |
.
.
.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:49 AM |
Did the study include
Did the study include
Did the study include questioning every other University in FBS?
And did I really argue that U of M is riddled with unethical people? Or did I just argue that unethical things were done (i.e. rules were broken)? I think it's the latter. You're putting words in my mouth.
May 26th, 2010 at 12:24 PM |
OK, Mag. Backpeddle, it's the
OK, Mag. Backpeddle, it's the
OK, Mag. Backpeddle, it's the right move.
When you state that having broken a rule due to misinterpretation is sufficient basis for impeaching someone's ethics and that what the same person says isn't necesarily the truth, you're saying that person is an unethical person.
David Brandon and Mary Sue Coleman believe Rich Rodriguez but Magnus does not.
May 26th, 2010 at 12:42 PM |
a) I don't know how to
a) I don't know how to
a) I don't know how to "backpeddle" but maybe you can teach me someday.
b) Going by the definition of "ethical", some of what happened within the University was unethical. If you're talking about what "ethical" means in your own mind, have at it. I can't change your perceived definition of the word.
c) And regardless, you're morphing your point - you said that I have argued that the University is full of unethical people. And I clearly did not say that. Having two or three people do unethical things (or break the rules) doesn't mean the entire University is full of shady characters.
d) I'm not saying Rodriguez or anyone in the AD lied. I'm saying that in situations like this, one always has to wonder how much of the truth is being told. There's a little bit of politician in every football coach, and I don't believe 100% of everything that comes out of a coach's mouth. It wouldn't be the first time that someone said "I didn't know the rule!" when that person did, in fact, know the rule.
May 26th, 2010 at 1:33 PM |
Oh no, don't be humble. I
Oh no, don't be humble. I
Oh no, don't be humble. I don't need to teach you anything, you've got excellent technique. Clearly a natural.
But, you've convinced me; I've got it all wrong Magnus. It's super fun to be reign down jugdement from up this perch.
- Jake Long holds. Unethical.
- Charles Woodson interfers; Unethical.
- Jake Locker excessively celebrates...UNETHICLE!!!1!11!
- Lloyd Carr lets inelligible players play. UNETHICLE!!!1!
- Bo Schembechler lets walkons eat at training table. UNETHICLE!
Unethicle, I say. UNETHICLE!
May 26th, 2010 at 1:41 PM |
...and when discussions get
...and when discussions get
...and when discussions get this silly, it's time for me to get off the train.
See you next time, MCalibur.
May 26th, 2010 at 5:42 PM |
Goddamn, man
Goddamn, man
a) I would actually agree with that, I see you as more of a "shuttle" type of guy.
b) This is the kind of circular argument I was talking about in our previous exchange. I'd say you are sort of backpeddling on this one a little bit, or maybe just being over technical. IDK.
c) given
d) I agree with that.
Later
EDIT: This didn't thread properly, supposed to be above. Whatever.
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
May 26th, 2010 at 9:02 PM |
I feel like we're a circle of
I feel like we're a circle of
I feel like we're a circle of friends of an addict and instead of giving him the intervention he needs, we keep enabling his addiction. Magnus is addicted to playing the devil's advocate on any controversial issue involving U-M football. If he has to post 600 times in one thread he will, as long as there is even one person left paying attention. It's at times like this that you just have to bite the bullet and ignore him. Responding to his never-ending, always-changing arguments just prolongs the pain.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:29 PM |
I'm sorry. From now on, I'll
I'm sorry. From now on, I'll
I'm sorry. From now on, I'll kowtow to the popular opinion, just because everyone does.
I'll start bashing Lloyd Carr and Tim Tebow. I'll start saying that every Michigan recruit is going to be awesome because, by golly, he plays for Michigan. I'll start saying that it's okay for Michigan to break the rules, as long as some other programs are doing it. I'll start making meaningless comments like "Denard Robinson is awesome!" and "O let do it!" and I'll post pictures with various incarnations of FAIL so I can get pos-banged.
Yeah. The masses have it all figured out.
May 27th, 2010 at 4:10 PM |
O LET DO IT!
O LET DO IT!
WOOT WOOT!
Couldn't help myself.
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
May 26th, 2010 at 11:03 PM |
But
But
Then he wins...
not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user
May 27th, 2010 at 12:40 AM |
This is so incredibly true
This is so incredibly true
Magnus, honestly, without addressing the substance of anything you've said in this thread, you should hang up the debating act. You are really, really not good at forming logical arguments. Please stick to football knowledge type stuff.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:52 AM |
Jmblue, that's just a polite way of saying...
Jmblue, that's just a polite way of saying...
Magnus is a lastworder.
lastworders > closetalkers = uncle teds
"Do not disturb my circles."
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let the punishment fit the crime.