where every second chance deserves a second chance...
to play football, not to play trumpet
where every second chance deserves a second chance...
But what about THAT second chance?
And the chance after that, oh noes!!!
Like rollover minutes for a certain cellular telephone company.
Just remember that timeouts are NOT like cell phone minutes.
Mark Dantonio only talks about players that play for Michigan State.
Err, wait a minute.
eh, its hard to say. I know Darth Dantonio would love to play him, but he has suspended players in the past.
He probably shouldn't play because he will miss all pregame preparation. Other than that, I'm not sure he deserves any additional suspension. He's missed two games after a DUI arrest, three if he sits out Saturday. What coach would suspend him for more than that?
Considering he was already on probation for assault, still being on the team seems kind of lenient to me.
considering one happened during a season where, you know, games exist and one happened during the summer where, you know, games don't exist...
it's perfectly normal for a coach to hold a player out for X amount of games because of something they did 2-4 months before. totally. Sparty on mate.
it's the probation part that makes it a little juicier.
You don't see the difference? He hasn't served any suspension. His punishment was imposed by the judge, not Dantonio. A 1-game suspension is kind of the standard for a plain DUI.
Do you need to be reminded that he plead guilty to a crime, for his part in the PREWB, less than a year ago? CLR then violated his probation before he even got behind the wheel (by drinking). Then he crashed into someone's property, and drove off to delay being caught.
I would bet money that he will see the field this Saturday. Dantonio knows what's on the line in this game, and he's shown that he accepts time spent behind bars as punishment enough.
I'm not sure how bad suspending a guy indefinately is in terms of "lack of discipline". Yeah, if all the sudden he magically appears in the game this weekend I think there is plenty wrong, but if he spends the remainder of the season "suspended", or maybe can show up again for a bowl game or something, I'm not sure how much you can realistically ask for here.
He hasn't been in jail since he was arrested, If he gets out on Thursday, that means he was jailed last Wednesday, meaning he was suspended for the Illinois game. He'll likely be suspended for the Iowa game. Two "coach imposed" games, three total, for a DUI/Probation violation seems reasonable. I'm sure there's not an exact Michigan precedent for the situation, but I know we didn't suspend Stonum for his probation violations. If Dantonio plays him on Saturday, I think that would be a problem. But again, more for what it says that a kid can miss a week's worth of practice because he's in jail and still play than for the length of a suspension for what he did.
I can be convinced that he needs to be suspended for more, tell me, what was his role in the fight last fall? Was he a leader? Did they show that he beat up some poor engineering geek, or was he just there and encouraging? It doesn't matter in terms of probation violations, but it might effect how you'd view a Michigan player in the same circumstances.
One more honest question. How do you know he couldn't drink while on probation? I thought probation orders were based on the criminal action with a few automatic provisions (no illegal drugs, no further arrests). I thought complete sobriety was generally only part of probation for DUI arrests.
I read something incorrectly. He was not in jail for the Illinois game. I still maintain that if a probation officer recommends 21 days in jail, then he shouldn't see the field in <3 weeks. Stonum served 3 days for violating terms of probation (passively) in the summer (plenty of time for other forms of punishment), not for commiting new crimes.
I don't really care what his role in the PREWB was other than following Winston's lead. He was 21 at the time, and he thought that pleading guilty and taking probation was his best option. Glenn Winston would not have been given a second chance by RR.
As to your last question (freep link):
Is there a listing for "in jail"? In any event, even if he was not in jail, it seems to indicate that he would be playing. Do you think that M would handle this any differently (from a listing on the roster perspective)?
I'm not sure how MSU has really been "covering" for him either. If he is allowed to play this week then I think we can get up in arms, not about a guy being suspended indefinately.
This school was able to in a clean conscience put a hockey player back on the I e after he played lumberjack with someones neck
Rucker plays, I'd it were the little sisters of the poor then we would hear about how great a disciplinarian he is.
never say Chris Rucker without the "L" ?
I seriously cannot figure out why everyone single person insists on the middle initial?
Promised him his initial in recruiting. Now our recruit Chris Rock I could see going middle initial, but why this kid?
because they also had a WR named Chris D Rucker on the team
IIRC, there are 2 Chris Ruckers that play for MSU. They differentiate by using middle initials.
This has been driving me crazy.
...Chris D Rucker is pretty happy that they consistently use the middle initial now. "No, mom, it's Chris L Rucker who's been in jail."
Hehe, those cheeky Ruckers.
No matter what, I'm sure the local MSM will cover this latest MSU incident with their usual indifference while issuing ALL CAPS headlines about Kenny Demens and Boubacar Cissoko not paying rent.
In Kenny and Boubs' defense, Rent is 2 Damn High.
You think i'm a baby 'cause the spartans make me cry...
$10 says that Ingham County even has a van that drops him off at practice once he's released.
Someone ought to set up a direct shuttle from the jail to the campus. Maybe set up a people mover. Good money to be made.
What I don't get is how the MSM chooses to vilify one and not the other.
I'm not saying this because I root for Michigan- I would wonder this no matter which school I was a fan of.
It just doesn't make sense that the consistent majority would be in agreement on Dantonio's great discipline and Urban Meyer's lack thereof.
Exactly how and when does a school of fish decide, "Hey, the evidence is the same- but that guy there, now he's a saint..."?
Think about what sells. The Free Press/AnnArbor.com/assorted cadre of soon to be dead old media know that scandals about the big program in state will sell papers. The added on-the-field problems only accentuate the issue.
They know just as well that the "emergence of Michigan State" story will sell way better than "Mark Dantonio doesn't care about discipline" story. This has everything to do with:
Once things revert to normalcy, and they will, these problems will all but disappear.
You couldn't have nailed that any better. Perfect.
What was it Bo said about the media: If I am losing they can't help me. If I am winning, I don't need them.
Something like that?
Michigan State is a different animal. Way less popular in a garden variety average year. Therefore, way less influential towards the bottom line for MSM. Michigan has to play by way different and more stringent rules if they care to avoid really negative publicity.
As we have seen the last couple years.
Best to not care.
Regarding the MSM and the treatment of Dantonio vs. Urban Meyer, Drew Sharp wrote a column on Oct. 16 titled "Chris Rucker Shouldn't Take Another Snap for the Spartans," which also included a comparison with Meyer's disciplinary actions (or lack thereof). So there is at least one MSM figure who called for Rucker to be booted off the team.
I know nobody around here cares what Sharp thinks, but it'll be interesting to see if he writes another column about this if--or should I say when--Rucker is reinstated.
I find it difficult to conclude that he was out-and-out lying not knowing what question he was asked and not having his direct quote in response to that question. It may not be as clear-cut as you seem to think.
In the meantime, Rittenberg has a column up arguing that Rucker should not return against Iowa but should be allowed to play again this year.
has already began filing a motion with the NCAA and the B10 to see if Rucker qualifies for an "Incarceration Redshirt" this season. To do so, Rucker must remain ineligible for the prison team until the NCAA issues its ruling.
However during the appeal Rucker does qualify to play under MSU (Malfeasant Student Union) which was founded by Michigan State University in 1966. Incidently this same union proclaimed that all ties in football shall be counted as wins ! The "duffy" clause ....
Go Blue !
I'd be willing to bet she's probably one angry MotherRucker.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "lockdown corner".
Of course Michigan State is without comment. For, if you comment, people will KNOW about it, making his return to the field that much more of a problem.
This is good practice by MSU.
Catch and Relase t-shirt: Does anyone still have the image for that one?
If there was year to play a guy like this immediately upon release and get away with it, this is the year and Michigan State is the school.
We're in the midst of the state-wide media love train for that school in both major sports. Well earned too. Good for them.
There have been plenty of DUIs by college football players over the last few years. Rucker's case is interesting because he was involved in the Great Battle of Pot-Luck last year. Note that a 1-game suspension for a first-time offender is the norm, but some schools went well beyond that.
|Carlos Dunlap||Florida||Urban Meyer||Suspended 1 game: SEC championship. Played in Sugar Bowl then declared for NFL draft||FL lost its defensive MVP for the game of the year|
|Maurice Shaw||Idaho||Robb Akey||Suspended 1 game: conf. opener v. Louisiana Tech||Idaho lost to LA Tech 48-35 without their leading receiver|
|Donatvious Jackson||Georgia||Mark Richt||Suspended 6 games (also hit a car). Jackson is transferring||Backup RB, minor loss|
|Tavarres King||Georgia||Mark Richt||Was his car that Jackson was driving (King drunk too). Suspended 1 game.||GA pasted LA-Lafayette w/out him|
|Demetre Baker||Georgia||Mark Richt||Kicked off team (Richt cited zero-tolerance policy on arrests)||Not a threat to play|
|Damon Evans||Georgia||Mark Richt||He's the AD. He resigned||Led his Dawgs to the '10 Fulmer Cup|
|Kyle Theret||Minnesota||Tim Brewster||Suspended for part of Spring Ball and first 2 games||Starting S: Missing 2nd game was a contributing factor in South Dakota loss|
|Kevin Grady||Michigan||Rich Rodriguez||Suspended 1 game, plus all of July from team, but practiced in Fall. Lost spot on depth chart for all of '08. Started at FB late in '09||Grady wouldn't have made the difference in '08|
|Jason Douglas||Pitt||Dave Wannstedt||He actually hit a pedestrian so more serious, but like Rucker had previous issues. Still in jail, probably will be kicked of team||Was low on depth chart anyway.|
|Brandon Hogan||WVa.||Bill Stewart||Suspended one game (had a urinating in public charge in April). Did not start v. LSU||Starting CB but WVU beat Maryland N.E.way|
|Doug Worthington||Ohio St||Jim Tressell||No suspension, but did not start (OSU has a mandatory 2-game suspension for 2nd DUI arrest; genocide is 8 games)||YSU gained 17 rushing yards in the series Worthington missed.|
|Alex Boone||Ohio St||Jim Tressell||No suspension. Sought "treatment" before fall ball||None|
|Michael Buchanan||Illinois||Ron Zook||Suspended 2 games. Returned for Ohio State.||Illini beat S-Ill. and NIU|
|Jon Casillas||Wisconsin||Bret Bielema||While driving moped. No suspension "handled in-house"||None|
|Broderick Binns||Iowa||Kirk Ferentz||Suspended for part of Fall Ball and 1st game||Wasn't needed v E.Ill.|
|Shiloah Te'o||BYU||Bronco Mendenhall||Kicked off team (first offense). Transferred to Oregon St.||Would have started in '09|
|Peter Lalich||Oregon St||Mike Riley||Boating DUI. Kicked off team||Would not have started in 2010|
|Preston Parker||Florida State||Bobby Bowden||Had a previous weapons charge. Was dismissed from team||Might have been FSU's best receiver in '09-'10|
The Ohio State ones really jump out. The only other recent DUI that didn't earn a suspension was for a moped (Wisconsin). The other thing that jumps out is that most of the kids who got a DUI after a previous incident were kicked off the team.
I guess it matters what Rucker's role was in last year's Pot Luck Attack, but a 1-game suspension is what you'd expect for a guy with no previous issues. If you imagine the Dorm Attack never occurred, Dantonio has a typical Big Ten record for punishments. The problem is, it did occur, and it wasn't the first time that something like it occurred under Dantonio. The result: two guys who shouldn't have been on the team anyway were kicked off, those charged were suspended for the bowl game, and one guy was given transfer papers after testifying against his teammates. Since then, this program continues to act like it didn't happen.
he could've broken out of his cell!
I agree. It's coach-speak, not lying. "Awaiting the process" could mean anything.
I don't care if Dantonio said Rucker was visiting China. It's not the press conference that makes this thing icky. The only thing that bothers me about Rucker playing at Iowa is that Dantonio is treating this like a first-time offense. Coach D knows all about the previous incident, but his first inclination when it happened was the standard one-week suspension.
I wish I had noted the ones that took place during the season, because it highlights the difference: the first-timers were in jail for like 2 days, then they got out and had their coaches tack on punishment for embarrassing the program. Among these, Grady extended his punishment by not doing all of his community service. Those who were repeat offenders of any sort were either kicked off the team, or transferred.
Rucker wasn't sitting on the sidelines and doing extra stairs; he's been behind bars for the last 8 days for violating his probation. The extended jail time is because Rucker pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor less than a year ago, a misdemeanor which he committed while part of the Michigan State football team. The City of East Lansing certainly hasn't forgotten the seriousness of past transgressions.
He is still not treating the Pot-luck thing as a big deal. When a group of men go to pick a brawl with another group of men, that is a very big deal. Events like that can result in deaths, permanent disabilities, and the use of weapons, and usually involve harm to innocent bystanders. It is a very big deal.
That is the only thing I am criticizing him of.
The disconnect here is not over facts, loc. Where we disagree, and disagree strongly, is in how big of a deal the Rather Hall incident is. We're looking at the same facts; but we're saying this event is a huge, forever-program-staining kind of thing. People die and get lifetime injuries during a "brawl." A group fight makes otherwise good people lose inhibitions. The typical social rules surrounding a fight, where onlookers do not participate and will break it up before someone gets hurt, do not apply in a brawl. This makes them extremely dangerous, and this is why it is important to be very openly harsh on participants.
What we're saying is that agreeing to go along with your buddy and "back him up" is a big deal. Nothing like what happened at Rather Hall has ever happened at Michigan that I know of, so I can't tell you how I'd respond if it happened to my team. I can tell you that given the circumstances, where the ringleader was a repeat violent offender who wasn't punished the first time, I hope I would be incredibly critical of my head coach's response. If it wasn't dealt with openly and severely, I would call for the coach to be fired.
I have a sister-in-law who was living in Rather Hall when that happened, and who knows some of the victims, and I don't know how to tell you how big of a deal even being on the periphery of that (and kicking someone for 6 seconds) really is. That your head coach is essentially ignoring that it happened just a year later is a major red flag as to how Dantonio views the incident. He obviously doesn't think it's a big deal.
IT'S A BIG FUCKING DEAL!
How can I convince you that this isn't just rivalry crap-giving here? People die in brawls. Innocent bystanders are permanently hurt in brawls. And fair or not, what members of an organization such as the Michigan State football team do reflects on that organization, until such point that the organization makes it abundantly clear they are not associated with it. The difference between saying "some guys on the Michigan State football team started a brawl," and "the Michigan State football team started a brawl," is in how the coach reacts to it. This coach, who had some culpability for the brawl in the first place, is demonstrating again that he doesn't think association with the Rather Hall Brawl should follow a player just a year later. Getting a DUI is making a decision that could get someone killed or seriously injured, as is allowing yourself to join a group intent on settling a dispute through violence.
It's not the coach's job to fulfill society's justice. The City of East Lansing will take care of the welfare of the people of East Lansing (including my sister-in-law), and have done so by having Rucker serve an 8-day jail sentence. Dantonio's job is to protect the name of Michigan State from Rucker. Nobody expects any head coach to run a program where no athlete commits a misdemeanor -- these are, afterall, college kids and athletes to boot. What we should expect out of coaches is that they never tacitly condone such behavior. They demonstrate this by holding their wards in double-jeopardy. The jail time is for what he did as a citizen of East Lansing, Michigan. The suspension should relate to what he has done as a representative of Michigan State's football program. A one-game suspension is relative to "Chris L. Rucker, MSU defensive back, was arrested for a DUI," but not "Chris L. Rucker, MSU defensive back who was convicted of misdemeanor assault for his role in the Rather Hall incident, was arrested for a DUI."
RR vs. Dantonio on discipline is not at all a comparison -- mostly because M players have nothing like Rather Hall to serve as a basis for it. The biggest incident so far under RR was that kid caught in the middle of a bad coke deal; it was the first whiff of trouble the coaching staff ever heard about the guy, and he was immediately kicked off the team. Other than that, you have Carson Butler who was told to GTFO (this btw was what set off the Renaissance coaches, who thought Butler deserved more patience), and Kevin Grady, who got pulled from spring practice plus a 1-game suspension and a full-season depth chart spanking, and then another 1-game suspension for not fulfilling his legal obligations. Those are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Do you have direct comparisons from State's spate of typical shit?
One minor addition: Peter Lalich had legal/behavior troubles (I forget the specifics, but there was a reason he transferred to Oregon St.) at UVA. So he was probably on a short leash at Oregon St. to begin with.
You have a DUItabase.
who doesn't these days?
He will probably be starting vs Iowa.. In his place is a freshman who has to cover DKJ for IOWA.. i expect 3 TD's by him if he is being covered by another freshman saturday.
So that I can have something to throw back everytime someone talks about Rich Rodrigues practicing a extra 20 Minutes.
He already welcomed Glenn Winston back to the team the day he got out of jail last year. That alone is sufficient embarassment.
Mark Dantonio is beyond reproach. The leader of the Sardaukar answers to no one.
Rucker got off easy for his first arrest.
For a underage consumption of alcohol (no driving etc or prior arrests)
I got a year of random alcohol testing, 80 hours of community service, and violation of probation would have landed me 60 days in jail.
Nothing else involved , no fighting etc, I was just caught leaving a bar. Rucker got off easy for the fight, time to throw the book at him.
If the system is unfair/ridiculous that's one thing, but if it was hard on me it should be for him.
Underage people do, if you had bothered to read properly.
Well, if he's lying, so be it. It won't change anything. But his point still stands. The average joe gets penalized much more than these athletes do.
And the cops don't need super x-ray vision (what is super x-ray vision, anyways? Is that like UV-vision?) to ask him for his ID and read it. How do you think people get MIPs? By running up to cops and telling them that they're underage?
Jesus man, do you read? He said it COULD'VE gotten him 60 days in jail. I might stop negging you for the fear that you simply have a reading disorder.
Get out of here, troll.
A Spartan should know the meaning of "maximum jail sentence", but apparently you don't.
And LOL at the rest of your post. I'm "a pussy and coward" for using an awesome feature on this board for keeping the likes of you from posting any topics?
Wanna arm wrestle? Will that prove my manliness to you? Because I'm dying to prove myself to you.
Actually, in the ever evolving english language, the two words are used interchangeably (albeit improperly), like CAN and MAY. But hey, if I were being a grammar nazi also, I would've pointed out your improper use of "its" in one of your previous responses.
Now, how about you stop trolling?
I initiated the "reading skills claim" because you glanced over an entire statement. You decided to select a common misuse of the word "could" (which I believe I used the right word while the OP did not). But I do not care to get in a grammatical battle with you, cutie pie, because your base belief has been wrong from the beginning. I may have incorrectly used one word, I may not have. All that matters in this debate is that you are completely wrong about the overarching theme in this topic, which is the sentiment that the average person receives a much harsher punishment than the average big-name athlete, especially in this case.
First, I would like to know your source to backup your statement that "violating probation on a charge of wreckless driving and getting 7 days in the clink is norm." Please, keep in mind that Rucker is on probation for assault and battery and that he was charged with drunk driving, not "wreckless" driving.
in two days can you post on a Michigan fan site selectively picking sentences that fit your extremely slanted viewpoint? you cite his reckless (lol wreckless) driving charge as proof of your point - he got a favorable plea deal that also involved a willing violation of probation. you can cherry pick the UM side of it all you want - one involves a player failing to complete his required tasks for his plea deal, the other involves a player a) drinking in violation of his probation and b) getting behind the wheel after having done so in violation of state law. he will be welcomed back to the team with open arms and you will have yet another example of how Dantonio, the authoritarian, will state in a press conference that people don't get second chances and then, when the reporters are absent, do the exact opposite.
you've been wrong the entire thread. the fact you feel the need to troll a UM board while your team is 8-0 and you beat Michigan this year should be sufficient proof of one thing: little brother.