due to oversensitivity to a post that was actually positive in nature.
RRod - Boys to Michigan Men
It does involve a photoshopped pitcure of Lloyd Brady. Just saying.
sometimes people don't get the memo
false alarm, I posted in reaction to the first poster (who usually puts an atomic bomb in bad posts) and then my comment was replied to; so it was not editable; his was. I guess that's what I get for not reading the post and just going off of another.
A 90's R&B group parody of RR making high school boys into men by the time they leave. Pretty offensive I guess.
If you think Boyz II Men is offensive, you are not American.
I've been to three concerts live in my life time… 2 of them were Boyz II Men… no joke.
It's saddens me that no one took notice of it by the MSM. RR is and always is a Michigan Man in my book.
Very nice post. Now go convince Brandon and we would both be happy. For whatever reason, people are unwilling to consider alot of the off the field stuff. Then they turn around and say that "we are UM and we are better than that". Go figure. What a long strange trip it's been.
I think it's because people want it both ways.
RR will always be a Michigan Man in my eyes as well but that doesn't mean he will reach to all of the "fans" no matter how good of a person he is.
Quite a shame.
Yes, the majority of Michigan fans want success both on the field and off. We have had it that way for nearly 40 years and there is no reason to lower the expectations. Otherwise why are we playing in a 109,501 seat stadium, paying our football coaches in excess of $4.5M and giving out millions of dollars in scholarships each year.
There is no doubt in my mind that RR is doing a very good job of trying to mold immature young men into mature adults. I am glad that we are not putting success on the field above all else like some other programs. But if the sole focus is off the field success, then Michigan Football may as well join the Ivy League or go the way of the University of Chicago. There needs to be on field success as well.
Having it both ways is what made Michigan the Leaders and Best.
why would anyone disagree with this? ask brandon if he wants it both ways- i wonder what he'll say???
Well, they disagree becaue the coach that most want to replace RR has a very checkered "off the field past". (not going to go into it as he might be my next coach)
This would indicate that while most people including DB want it both ways, the "winning" is more important than "doing it the right way". Not to mention that DB appears to be going more in the direction of "doing it right" by raising academic standards (or eliminating coaches exceptions), yet going the other way with the personal behavior of the (maybe) next coach.
PLUS, nobody mentions the off the field stuff about RR, which is strange since it is "just as important" as the on the field. hmmmm...
The OP never mentioned the coaches off-field behavior, nor did I. It is about the on and off field development of the 100+ football players at the University of Michigan.
Now, beacuse another coach (Harbaugh) had an off-field issue, a DUI, he is not able to effectively develop student athletes both on and off the field? Hiring him would be "winning at all costs?" I find that to be almost laughable. If that is the case, then Red Berenson should have been fired years ago after his drinking incident. You are doing to Jim Harbaugh what you are wish people would not do to Rich Rodriguez. Taking personal shots to justify your position.
I'll help you define winning at all costs. Placing Glenn Winston or the WR at Florida back on the team is winning at all costs. Cutting players on your team to be able to bring in a larger recruiting class.
Rich Rodriguez has shown himself to not be a win at all costs coach. We can agree on that.
He can be a Michigan Man in my eyes without being our coach. At some point there is a line where you say OK he's a great guy and he's made a positive impact on kids but we do need to win football games. In some people's eyes, that line has already been crossed. In others, they would rather give him another year. Just because you reside on one side of the other doesn't mean you're less of a "fan." In my opinion, we should be able to have it both ways. Michigan is MICHIGAN because we decided that we wouldn't settle for one or the other. The great men that have come before decided that they could win a shit ton of games and be outstanding people. The bar is set extremely high at Michigan and that's the way we want it. That's the only way- because it is Michigan. I'll always respect Rich Rodriguez and have never questioned his integrity or effort. Whether or not he's the right coach I'm not completely sold on- leaning towards probably not- but for his integrity, values, and attitude I'll always consider him a Michigan Man.
had these aspects of RR's character been made apparent from then beginning, we would not be the state of limbo that we bnow find ourselves in becuase the fanbase would not have demonized him from day one for not being Lloyd Carr had they realized that off the field he was Lloyd's equal in every way in terms of making sure player represent the university well and are developed as people and not just players.
Instead, you would have a fanbase that is more lenient in their expecations and rational in their perceptions as to the state of the W/L record and why it is what it is. RR would be on much firmer ground in looking at next year as a definite make or break season as opposed to wondering if he is going to get the chance.
I respectfully disagree. All of RR's problem stem from his inability to win. Yes everyone loved Lloyd Carr as a person, but especially his .752 win percentage. The fact that he can't win is what's compounding his other problems tremendously.
I guarantee that if RR would have done anything approaching a .752 winning percentage people would not be finding every reason they could to ridicule him.
A .752 win percentage would have meant BCS bowl games and top 10 finishes in the first 3 years. That kind of winning has the ability to quell whatever animosity existed in the beginning.
Now of course, a coaching change is never easy. I don't think anyone expected him to come in and take Michigan back to the rose bowl right away. But certainly no one expected 3-9, 5-7, and 7-5. Honestly, that was worst case scenario coming true. Especially after we let Florida have it in the Cap One Bowl.
Don't forget, RR is 0-6 vs OSU and MSU and 2-7 overall vs our rivals. Under his watch most of Michigan's impressive and long standing streaks have ended. I know you all are going to freak out and neg me for writing this but it's fact. I'm not saying I want RR gone- the point I'm making is that THIS IS WHY PEOPLE WANT HIM FIRED. It doesn't have to do with the off field stuff nearly as much. Yes, that's pouring more fuel on the fire and yeah it sucks because he's a good man and doesn't deserve it- but his record is 15-21 for god sakes including 6-18 in the big 10. If you think it has to do with anything other than that you're making excuses.
It's always been about winning at Michigan, like it or not. That doesn't mean he's not a great influence for the kids and a good man. But Michigan football has, and always will be about winning. That's just the truth of it. I don't blame the fan base for being upset and anxious about this. I don't necessarily think he should be fired- perhaps another year would turn things around for good. It doesn't make anybody less of a fan to question whether or not someone should be the head coach just like it doesn't make you less of a patriot if you disagree with the president.
It's a business,Michigan athletics that is and especially Michigan football. Wins and losses is what many fans care about. Michigan could be 12-0 and win every game like 10-9 and as long as they win that would be the main thing. If RR is let go it will be about business that is all.Didn't win enough. It is kind of unfair only because RR is a good person and works hard to get this program successfull and still might not be given enough time (another year) because fans are getting too impatient because of lack of wins and lack of wins of rivalry games.
If all UM means is business and $$, then it is no different than any other program out there.
That is not to say that $$ doesn't matter, of course it does, to think otherwise would be naive in the extreme, however M has always had the luxury of being an extremely profitable program, while at the same time being run with honor and integrity and without putting the almighty $ first and foremost.
I have followed M footbal for all of my 43 years and if it ends up beoming nothing more than a business, it will have lost everything that makes it special.
there is, quite simply, much more to it than that, though sadly these days many fans can think of little else.
rebuilding a program doesn't happen overnight and the team that 'gave it to Florida' all but evaporated after that game.
You're missing the point though, had RR's character not been under constant attack by illiterate WVU fans on his way out, detroit area media on his way in and their less-than-informed 'Michigan Man' fans 2 days afterward, he wouldn't be in the situation he is ion and would be looking at another year to turn it around.
For example, if from day one the PR surrounding RR was a different story about a local boy that played at WVU and rose through the ranks, under the tutelage of Don Nehlen (a michigan Man), who created the spread offense, kept his players out of trouble and turned a backwater program into a giant killer in BCS bowls....I don't think you have the elder segment of the fan base purchasing tar & pitchforks, I think they would be frustrated, but talking about having the right kind of character and players and attitude and looking for continued improvement next year before sharpening their axes.
I love me some RR. He is a Michigan Man. Thanks for sharing.
I agree completely with your post. One of the main benefits of college athletics is that it gives kids an opportunity to improve their life outlook. The head coach makes a big difference as to how effectively the student-athletes use that opportunity (keeping track of grades, behavior, etc..).
This is definitely the type of story people outside of MGoBlog need to hear. You should send it to Angelique.
at the decisions made by this staff and the punishments they have doled out while trying to set an example of what is and is not acceptable, too often at the cost of results, and you feel a greater pride of precedent and expectations. this is not a team that requires second chances to get the point. this is a team that knows they should have understood the first time and either don't require a second chance or feel exceptionally grateful when they receive it.
This was great, thanks so much for posting. I wish the MSM in Detroit would write about stuff like this. It's sad that we have to read these kinds of stories either on this blog or from media outlets in Chicago, Cleveland, etc. I know the negative stories sell more papers and get more clicks but, after a while, don't they also just turn people off?!?!
I'm all for reading something POSITIVE every once in a while!
Coach Rodriguez has always appeared to strive to do a great job of molding the young men he coaches into mature adults. I have never doubted that from day one. And that part of his tenure as head football coach at the University of Michigan is many times overlooked by fans and the MSM. Frankly, it is the one area where people who are uninformed or not paying attention spend the most time trying to soil his image. He is a good man whose intentions appear in the right place
That said, personal development is only one part of the job description. There also has to be athletic development which translates into wins and loses. And there is nothing to say that another coach would not do as good a job in developing the non-athletic part of our student athletes.
He is just simply a great person. I am convinced of that. For all his off the field contributions to others, he deserves one more year to prove he can do it on the field as well. I don't think he will be given that chance, but I really hope he does.
I'm having a crappy day and your post made me smile. Thank you!
Best post I have read here for several weeks. I love RR, and passionately want him to stay at Michigan. Given the chance, he is going to be a great coach. I hereby authorize the mods to give you all but five hundred of my points. (All I want or need with points is enough to be able to post and to comment when there is a board meltdown, a la tOSU loss.)
You mentioned that many of the kids in the Starr Academy were not so much bad, as they were "lost." I think this is a perfect way to describe what will happen at Michigan if RR is cut loose. This also, imhe, describes what will happen with many in our current recruiting class. Don't kid yourself: Denard especially, but many of our current players, have undoubtedly explained the score to potential recruits. This is a big part of why some of them are still willing to come to Michigan. RR, and his coaching staff, including Barwis, provide direction and life lessons for so many of the guys on our team.
The current team desperately want to see RR succeed, but they weren't strong enough and experienced enough to make it happen. . . this year. I truly believe that next year, we turn the corner.
This last year, my 4th grade son had an awesome experience with Little League baseball, and a crummy experience with tackle football. The difference was almost all about the coaches, the assistant coaches, and the cameraderie (or lack thereof) built on the team. It gave me a great window to see how huge of an influence a good coach like RR can have in the lives of the young men on the team.
Thanks again for sharing this, and I echo those who want you to find a way to see this published in the MSM. Either Angelique or the Daily could do a fine job, without doubt.
Never part of a cult. Just my better half for 20 years, and the mother of my 3 children. I like seeing her, and there are only so many iterations of helmets and Hart and Graham you can use as an avatar.
I have made this point time and again with people I know. It usually ends badly. So many people just see the win/loss aspect. I tell them to go watch the Lions. The fact that Michigan (College) Football is about more than just the games escapes them. The same people generally do not acknowledge the fact that the athletes are student athletes, either. They don't have a problem with booing, calling them names, or speaking ill of their mothers.
I feel that the majority of those fans that boo 19 year olds and scream for RR's head because the team lost to Sparty are fans who's involvement with the team crosses into personal self worth. It matters little that the coach cares more about sitting a possibly injured player more than his job. Could care less about how a coach molds players off the feild. All they care about is that they need a comeback when some drunk Buckeye says at a bar "Michigan sux, ur gay." Then they look at the W-L record, and feel inferior to the Buckeye fan. This makes them very sad. Buckeye fans high-five while the Michigan fan sheds an angry tear into his beer. Then a Sparty fan pulls the same move and desperation sets in. "How can my life be like this, RR is ruining my life" It is a completely emotional response based on a crutch for self esteem. And all the Mgoblog charts?!?, graphs, logic and what not is pointless because replying in a bar with "Yeah but Denard" and "Our offense's YPG is trending in a way that leads one to the conclusion that we will have a top 5 offense next year" does not stop the Sparty high-fives. It only increases the "Michigan IS gay cause maths is gay" laughter. Sparty and Buckeye high-five, Michigan fan looks across bar, sees a Domer who quickly avoids eye contact. All is lost.
especially true of people that don't have a lot of 'W' in their own lives, to the extent that they count on it to come from an external source like M football.
It is really sad to watch our fanbase become like so many others in valuing wins above all else and having such a short fuse when they don't get them. If we fail to give RR a fair shot at rebuilding the program, we can talk all we want about M doing it the right way, but in the end it will ring hollow and Dog help us if the next coach doesn't turn thisngs around in 3 years b/c we will probably be trying to throw enough money at nick Saban to bring him to Ann Arbor just to be sure we get our W's back, players be damned.
r u fawking kiddin me?
Starr Commonwealth? Seriously, dude, do your research--boarding school? You are only like 100% wrong.
your whole post sounds emo as all get out.
but, you have a right to your opinion, so,yeah, carry on.
speak out of your ass much? Your exactly the person that I talked about. Stereotypes and prejudice fill your head. Do YOUR research on what Starr is all about and what it does. Hell, I even provided the link for people to read about them.
everything I know about Starr is exactly as he presented it. do enlighten the group on what it is.
Staff at an Albion facility for troubled youth immediately notified police and chased after two teenagers who escaped Saturday evening.
The boys later stole a car and led state troopers near Ypsilanti on a highway chase.
The 16- and 17-year-old boys bolted from the Starr Commonwealth about 5:30 p.m. Saturday, said Jim Longhurst, the facilities senior vice president for clinical and health services.
“Our staff got on it immediately,” Longhurst said. “They saw what was happening and went after the kids.”
The two boys, whose names have not been released, eluded Starr Commonwealth staff by hopping a fence into a restricted area neighboring the facility. Longhurst said his staff, because of safety concerns, did not follow the teens over the fence, which is dotted with “Do Not Enter” signs.
well let's see. there's fences. you're pursued if you try to leave. and it involves teens who commit crimes before entering and after. i'd say that's a boarding house/prison for troubled teens.
god you're a troll sometimes.
In my time as a psych major at Albion I became very familiar with Starr. Many kids in our department interned there, and what the OP says about the kids there is pretty much spot on. Most of them have gone through some crazy stuff, and it's great to hear that these kids had a different voice telling them to turn their lives around.
I think this is Diary worthy. Mods, what say yee?
speak out of your ass much? Your exactly the person that I talked about. Stereotypes and prejudice fill your head. Do YOUR research on what Starr is all about and what it does. Hell, I even provided the link for people to read about them.
Yes, I am quite accomplished at speaking out of my ass. Thank you for asking.
Never been to Starr's website--you are right. My feet have traveled that campus tho,
You should adopt one of those lost children. Do your family well.
but offering no other information to educate or correct. so basically you're just ripping content for no reason. what's your goal other than "nuh uh"?
Oh please, dear? For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
Dude, what is your fucking deal?
What's YOUR deal?
If you are so concerned with people posting multiple times in threads, take a look around. There are probably 10 other guys who post just as much as he does. I think you are trying to pick a fight.
aka he's being rude for absolutely zero value. he refuses to explain how FormerWolv is wrong. why not call that out?
He has to let everyone know about his epeen, got to keep it strong man
to responses to my comment (aka replies). in this case i thought it was just stupid to make the claim that Elno did. that's all. i will keep it in mind (seriously) to try to not make MGoBlog my own Dear Diary on issues, though. i'm not being sarcastic.
Dude, what the fuck is your deal?
DAMN YOU MAD MAGISH.
Like how freaky is it we even used the same pic?
I don't have any idea wut you're talking about dude?
I cop to being pathetic but where is it that I lurk? I've got more mgopoints that you--almost twice as many.
MY MGOPOINTS PWN YUR BONEZ.
Was there a coherent thought in there somewhere?
Ugh...you missed it, his point man
Thank you for your comment Bluemandew. I appreciate the opportunity to phrase my query more coherently.
I was accused of being a "pathetic lurker." I merely wished to know on what basis it was that I was branded a "lurker?"
Unless I am mistaken this term applies to one who reads but never comments on a message board. However, my very large number of mgopoints, earned by making very many highly acclaimed comments on mgoblog, demonstrates the falseness of the claim.
I appreciate any insight you have to offer. Let me know if I remain unclear or incoherent in any way. Thanks, imafreak
I beleive these men would like to have a word with you.
I was wondering a while ago your thoughts on the whole Coaching "situation" and whatever that is going on at Michigan right now. I know that you're a former player, and I know that you'd like to remain somewhat anonymous. I really appreciated your pre-season insight to the program.
That said... what do you think about Rich in general? I know many posters above have said, rightfully so, that Michigan wants not only great personal development, but also wins.
I'm in the 2011-contend-for-the-big-ten-title-or-bust crowd (Want RR to stay), but I was wondering your overall opinion on it. With Jay Feeley, and other former players being so vocal (on twitter) about the need for a change during the OSU game, I was wondering your opinion.
Thanks again for your insight
He's not a former football player.
my mistake. I remember his insights from preseason/spring game, and I thought he had mentioned that he was a former player. Just well connected with the program then?
Former player, different sport.
There has to be a new DC no doubt. I've heard too many times that Robinson isn't the most exciting guy to play for, so he must go.
If he gets another year (I think he will), as long as RRod can show improvement, especially in big ten play, over this year, I believe he'll stay. Yea, he hasn't performed miracles, but he has improved the W-L every year. It was tough getting his guys here, but they are finally starting to blossom into what he wants the team to be.
I appreciate it
Do you know wut Public Act 150 is?
didn't mean to hurt your boyfriend's feelings, dude.
Why don't you just come out and type whatever it is you are fucking blathering about?
Because he's trying keep a veil of anonymity over his relationship with Starr, and rile y'all up.
which is an act funding and providing for youth rehabilitation and how it is funded. basically the kids become the ward of the state in an effort to focus their attentions away from distractions like gangs, etc. this happens often as a last resort due to a series of problems or crimes the teens have been involved in. residents are often discharged when they are of legal age.
the problem is he provides absolutely zero information on what he takes issue with in FormerWolv's characterization.
don't think so.
Thank you very much for posting this. I'm just speaking for myself, but this month long waiting period has provided me time to take the emotion of the w/l record out of the equation and be able to see this whole situation clearly.
This culture being formed by RR will undoubtedly translate into success on the field. The building of a strong foundation does take more time than the sand castle in E. Lansng. I can be patient. And it's information that the OP gave that confirms these observations.
Dave Brandon is a calculating man that I believe gave us this month to just chill a bit and look at the whole picture. That's what he's doing.
I got in some trouble over a hot dog stand. I was sent to Starr Commonwealth and some staff there boogered me.
What's it like to get boogered?
can we make fun if disabled people next?
c'mon, reach for the bottom, i think you can make it
at Starr Commonwealth we wouldn't be OSU's biatch every year.
that is the point right? take the criminally insane and turn them into MICHIGAN MEN!
getting boogered? after a while you hardly notice.
doesn't always mean crazy. it means that parents release parental rights to the state so that the state is the guardian and can dictate how their lives are managed 24-7. i have a feeling you really don't know what you're talking about here...
I wouldn't make that argument without more information, personally.
because the one FormerWolv is talking about is explicitly a "scared straight/role models" one where troubled youths meet players or individuals who have had similar circumstances surrounding their lives attempt to teach/mentor said troubled youths from making more mistakes.
The one about what the man with the chimp avatar knows or doesn't about Starr Commonwealth.
he states that to recruit Starr would be to "take the criminally insane"...
that's not the case.
A fair percentage of the incarcerated of any age in any state have untreated/undertreated mental health issues.
Not to make sense of elno's screeds, because he'd certainly hate that, I think he's taking exception to a somewhat romanticized portrayal of the residents of Starr Community.
I doubt he's taking a jab at this coaching staff or the players.
do not equate to criminally insane. Not even close really.
Elno is filled with hyperbole, but there is generally a grain of what he is trying to say under there. That was my interpretation.
Elno deserves our sympathy. He just gobbled down a huge tub of potato salad, and he finished it before he realized that the mayonaisse had gone bad. He'll be in a bad way for a while.
I am now a healthy, productive transvestitie turning tricks on the Diag and going to UM Law School, at Ann Arbor, Michigan, in the United States or Muricaka. In Ann Arbor.
See you tonight Geauz Blue!
at wut i don't know.
i just wish RR would give me a chance...just once chance...take a chance on me....plz.....i don't want to end up as a power crazed thread mod on some niche sports blag
wut happened to your face?
did Rich Rod do that to you?
I am sure Starr Commonwealth can be fixin yer jib.
TAKE A SIDE!
dude srsly that pic is going to keep me up at night and the mental trauma im currently repressing will manifest itself in some awful way years down the road.
for the love of all that is good and stuffed with bacon - please change your pic.
some blue make-up would help. I know where to get some if your interested.
was the stage name briefly used by Brian Jones during a stint as a solo blues musician before becoming one of the founding members of the Rolling Stones.
had an opposite impact on the participating kids.
you are a stupid head
and my name has nothing to do with Brian Jones, but that is a nice try.
Just might make the MgoHOF.
The OP was a great post, and I really was looking for a response from Former on the whole Coaching "Situation"
And here someone came along just looking for a negbang
Agreed. The OP was fantastic and brightened my day when I read it. Some people are just, well...
"Scared Straight! is a 1978 documentary directed by Arnold Shapiro. Narrated by Peter Falk, the subject of the documentary is a group of cocky teenaged juvenile delinquents and the attempts to make them end their criminal ways by introducing them to actual convicts. Filmed at Rahway State Prison, a group of inmates known as the "lifers" berate, scream at, and terrify the young hoodlums and attempt to "scare them straight" (hence the film's title) by showing an ugly, harsh presentation of the realities of prison life.
The documentary was shown on television in the late 1970s. It was aired uncensored and marked the first time that the word "fuck" was broadcast on many networks. The cast includes a drug dealer and counterfeit document manufacturer from Westchester County (Mikie C), a gang member from Jersey City (Jerome Watts), an arsonist and bomb builder from Bridgeport (Jon Shipiro), the son of a Mafia informant (Carlo Gallo), and a 17-year-old chop shop parts dealer and car thief from the Bronx (Jesus Rodriguez). At film's end, the teenagers say that they have decided that they don't want to end up in jail. The film ends with a "roll call" of the teens, revealing that most were "scared straight", though a few were said to have reoffended."
(Wikipedia goes on to state that none of the Scared Straight kids in the first two documentaries were ever convicted of felonies, and that the recidivism rate was 10% or below. However, a number of states subsequently initiated their own SS programs, and researchers have cast doubt on the effectiveness of those programs.)
SS isn't really a relevant comparison here, since it doesn't sound to me like the UM players were there to "berate, scream at, and terrify" the Starr kids. Whether it will change the lives of any of the kids at Starr, we won't know that for a long time, but it's damn worth the visit. I would also bet it's a valuable experience for the UM players to see "there but for fortune go I."
RR is more a a michigan man than many will ever realize. We are luck to have him and it pains me to see him mistreated.
"A fair percentage of the incarcerated of any age in any state have untreated/undertreated mental health issues.
Not to make sense of elno's screeds, because he'd certainly hate that, I think he's taking exception to a somewhat romanticized portrayal of the residents of Starr Community."
OC is NEVER wrong, and always right.
are the worstest.
I mean, they are fun to chase around with your car and all, but after that they get boring and whiny.
the criminally insane have no mental health issues?
cuz, dats crazy.
the boys in the hood are always hard
come talkin dat trash
and they pull yer card!
Yeah, we can stand tall today.
Not to diminish the great things the team does off the field, most programs do things like that. Michigan would be doing great things for the community, in particular Motts, regardless of who the coach is.
Did some comments get deleted? Because I honestly have no idea what is going on in this thread.
Elno and Geaux seem to be arguing about something, but I can't tell what it's about. Does anyone have an Elno to English dictionary?
You have to redeem 6 potato salad lids in order to get the Elno to English translator. Good luck.
This is a nice post and all, but honestly, could it not be applied to most football coaches out there? It's not like RR is out there in Pahokee recruiting by himself. A whole lot of programs want those guys. (BTW, Denard's from Deerfield Beach, which is much more middle-class.) I give him credit for the way he's carried himself and how he treats his players, but at the end of the day, that's what I'd expect from any Michigan coach.
good to read about positive things like this. Too bad it's being buried by the douchebaggery of a couple posters in this thread