RR Haters: RR < Hoke?
Step on up and explain how Hoke this year is better than trying one more year with RR....
January 11th, 2011 at 5:06 PM ^
This is an absolute joke of a hire. Not only is he less qualified, he brings in a totally different scheme which will run off the single most electrifying athlete to ever play at this damn school. SHAME.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:08 PM ^
If RR doesn't work out in year four, Hoke STILL comes to Michigan
January 11th, 2011 at 5:22 PM ^
That's a big "IF" too. Why didn't M go out and spend a million on the best DC money could buy?
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<br>I'll tell you:
<br>Because the LC cronies' dirty hands are all over it. I'm not even one hundred percent convinced RR would have been brought back regardless of how this season played out. I mean, barring winning a B1G championship, what have we seen over the past three weeks that lead any of us to believe this wasn't a decision made when Denard threw his first pick against Michigan State?
January 11th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^
A Lloyd Carr conspiracy?
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<br>Really?
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<br>I'm as mad about this hire as pretty much everybody else here, but from everything I've seen Lloyd Carr was an upstanding guy who did right by UM's players and their fans. Let's not drag him through the mud for what is sufficiently explained by DBs incompetence.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:23 PM ^
I'm so frustrated... But hey, what's done is done. I'll whine today... Move on tomorrow...
January 11th, 2011 at 5:08 PM ^
When did The Rock start playing for Michigan
January 11th, 2011 at 5:15 PM ^
Nice...
January 11th, 2011 at 5:11 PM ^
Incomparable, Hoke hasn't even coached a fucking game yet. Also, we are not ND. All this complaining is on the five year old without a bigwheel level. Shut the fuck up until there is an actual sample size.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:21 PM ^
A guy with three winning seasons in eight years and a 47-50 record has a fairly decent sample size.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:30 PM ^
Not as the HC at Michigan he doesn't. As we have seen, success doesn't necessarily translate from one place to another. Nothing from Hoke's past record translate definitely to Michigan Stadium.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:53 PM ^
So Brady Hoke's "success" at ball st and sdsu counts but not RR's at wvu, Clemson, and tulane? I agree that success at one stop does not promise success at another, but 47-50 isn't really inspiring me that he will do wonders here
January 11th, 2011 at 5:54 PM ^
That was my thought
January 11th, 2011 at 7:42 PM ^
-1, homies. That is not what I said at all. What I said is that a good or poor record at previous coaching jobs doesn't necessarily translate to success or failure at Michigan. You don't know until the team takes the fucking field. Apparently, some of you think you do because you hear voices from football gods. You can prognosticate all you want, but I am not buying it. This hire won't be a bad hire until the players don't succeed.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:53 PM ^
Also, to more directly answer Bronxblue. Obviously, RR's previous success didn't translate to winning consistently in the B1G, and I am not saying Hoke will either. What I am saying is that the jury is still out on Hoke, whereas the verdict is in on RR. Anyone that hollers negativity about this hire, and predicts mediocrity without a single game of Michigan Football being played under Hoke, is, for all intents and purposes, talking directly from their ass.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:30 PM ^
After 3 years, RR would have finally returned a single upperclassman at qb and some depth in the defense. Im not saying he would have won 10 games with that team, but the situation is far better than the mess he received from Carr.
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<br>To me, it is all about sample size and trends. Hoke has been trending up with his teams and that is reassuring, but RR had over 100 wins and was a success at ever stop before coming to UM. He also was winning more games each year, and if held suit would have won 9-10 games next year. We all acknowledge it was a bumpy ride, but 3 years just isn't enough to judge anyone esp. with this situation. I hope Hoke gets more time because I want him to succeed at UM, but I'm still not sold that he'll move the program forward.
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<br>You can't tell everything from the past, but to ignore it as irrelevant as a predictive model (however valid that may be) is counterproductive .
January 12th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^
You are correct on two points.
By my logic, a 1-179 incoming coach would have just as much of a chance to win at Michigan than a 179-1 coach. While theoretically true, realistically it probably isn't. And to some degree I fully understand the hesitance to embrace this hire based on his history. I guess my point was that I am getting angry at the meme already surfacing that states Hoke is mediocrity in a big ol' bottle just because of his past record, when he may in fact prove to be a great coach at Michigan. This meme is especially strange to me because I contrast it with the blinding support that RR received on this blog, which is one of the reasons I frequent this corner of the internet. I enjoy this blog because its readers have been very supportive in times of great uncertainty when other factions of the fanbase have not, and I guess I was surprised at all the negativity surrounding Hoke at such an early juncture of his tenure from fans that I have come to trust, and ultimately, given events of the RR, should know better.
As for RR, in my eyes theoretically the verdict is not in. RR given more time may have proved to be a great coach at Michigan as well. But realistically he is no longer the coach, so the verdict is technically in.
Also, the notion that to be for Hoke you have to be against RR, and vice versa, is just plain untrue, and I hope this trend of thought does not continue going forward.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:18 PM ^
I guess I'll give you your point, but then I don't really get the point of your post. Hoke will get his chance coaching at UM - I won't deny that. And maybe he'll succeed, and I hope he does. But don't act like a 52 year old coach with a losing record at two mediocre schools is likely to go gangbusters when he makes a massive jump in competition. And let's see where he is after three years-my guess is a slightly better record than RR but nothing amazing.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:37 PM ^
Does it matter to you that SDSU posted better team numbers on offense and defense than Michigan last year? Does it matter that their loses were close (even to TCU)? Does it matter that our current kids have publicly stated excitement about "a return to michigan football"?
January 11th, 2011 at 5:53 PM ^
No
<br>No
<br>And no*
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<br>*Way to phrase this last question. Was Hoke the best qualified coach to take over Michigan? No. If players are excited, awesome, winning games is a different story. You think Denard is excited? Doubtful
January 11th, 2011 at 6:02 PM ^
Is he the best qualified? I don't know the answer. But I like him more as I learn more. I wanted harbaugh but that didn't happen. I'm happy not to have the 'hot name' though. Anyway, is denard happy? If he wants to play in the NFL he should be (too hard to link on iPhone but pro scouts have said that under RR, denard stood no chance). Hopefully loeffler is the OC and denard becomes an even more dangerous weapon.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:02 PM ^
Denard as a more dangerous weapon under Loeffler than under Rodriguez, the guy that made Denard into what he is today??? Hahahaha. Wait. Were you serious?
January 12th, 2011 at 2:42 AM ^
the guy that made Denard into what he is todayyou mean god? dude scored a 50 yard TD on his first college touch.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:48 PM ^
Was going to be crippled if he kept being option 1 - 4 every play. I bet he is relieved and his numbers should be stable with more Ws.
January 12th, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^
Unfortunately I don't think I can accept better numbers at a WAC school when I keep hearing how RR's wins were in an easy Big East (I know you are not saying this but it is a common theme for RR haters). I am glad to hear that kids are excited but until they get a chance to see how the coaching staff will employ them this is just being all in for the new coach. Until I see what Hoke can do with recruits I will have to put this hire on hold until I learn more. I am not wow'd right now; hopefully that can be changed in the near future.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:45 AM ^
How do you sleep at night? You've been giddy like a fucking schoolgirl since RR was fired, exhibiting the same "hypocrisy" that you've been accusing Rodriguez supporters of. You sincerely make me sick dahblue, I would hate to be you.
January 12th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
Here's what you don't get. I'll repeat it again so you can let it sink in...
When RR was hired, I was happy with the hire. It was only after my personal evaluation (and, of course, everyone is entitled to their own evaluation of the guy) of his performance at Michigan that I felt he deserved to be fired. For having such an opinion, I was shredded on this blog by people (of course, you included) you swore at me, insulted me, said I "wasn't a fan" and "wasn't all in". Even the mods played in the same game, going so far as to neg me 1000 points for quoting a former mod's swearing rant against me. These people complained that the "fans" were responsible for RR's hard times because...pay attention now...because they "didn't support him from the start".
So now, those same people are blasting Hoke. They are "not supporting the coach" from day one. That is the definition of hypocrisy. I am supporting Hoke, with the same optimism that I supported RR. If his performance falls short (as with RR), I will change my tune. That is complete consistency. The reactions by the RR loyalists to this hire is unreal. Step back from whatever bubble you're hiding behind and you'll clearly see the difference.
January 12th, 2011 at 11:27 AM ^
I'm not blasting Hoke, I'm blasting this hire. I don't agree with it at all.
But do you honestly believe that RR was treated fairly during his time here? And, do you honestly believe that things might not have been different without all of the negative media attention, Lloyd players never giving him a chance, etc...? I'm seriously interested to know what you think about those two questions. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen...
January 12th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^
I can speak for myself and not what some insider felt about the RR hire. However, it's clear that you still feel RR was (unfairly) greeted with immediate negative attention. And now...you are doing the same to Hoke. You are blasting him (none of this is about his "personality") and would have a right to do so if you weren't so sanctimonious in your "all hail the mighty leader" routine for RR. That's why you (and many here) are acting as hypocrites.
When Hoke compiles a record here; it will be entirely fair to judge him based on that record. Of course, if you feel it was fair to rip the RR hire on day one...well...then you probably wouldn't still be whining about the RR criticism. Have a shred of consistency to your position.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
You didn't answer my question.
January 12th, 2011 at 5:21 AM ^
If you want to go that way what did Rich Rod do in three years?! Ofense played better against teams that we should have destroyed no matter what... Defense played worse every single year and dont give me the defense didnt have talent BS. In three years you HAVE to get the right talent and develop it.
Oh and by the way look at the schools Hoke coached and the teams he inherited and the competition he played. This year he lost 40-35 to TCU. Tell me honestly if you think that if we played TCU this year we would have the same score???
I supported coach Rod, i really did but the facts cant be denied. I will support coach Hoke, becouse he is the coach of Michigan football and all the people that now football and him personally think he is a GOOD person and a GOOD coach...
Thank you
January 11th, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^
I wanna see this contract. I will unleash language never before seen if the k is for more than RR made.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:21 PM ^
Can rich rod not be the standard with which we compare future coaches?
January 11th, 2011 at 5:40 PM ^
Rich Rod came to the University Of Michigan and shit on himself. Any of us could have done what he did with this program behind him. Please shut up. At least Brady understands what a great opportunity it is to coach at the University of Michigan.
<br>Go Blue!!
January 11th, 2011 at 5:50 PM ^
You know, sometimes you should just keep dumb things to yourself.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:05 PM ^
You, sir, are an a--hole.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:35 PM ^
RR didn't 'have to go' because anyone was to return. He had to go because he failed to get the job done. A legion of apologists complained that he was never given a fair shake by the fans and now those same people are ripping Hoke on minute one. Hypocrisy defined.
<br>We don't know if Hoke will be great but the hypocrisy of RR defenders could never be more clear. If Hoke loses 9 games in year one; loses every game against decent competition....then he will be deservedly criticized just as was RR. In the meantime, stop being everything you previously complained about.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:43 PM ^
Are the starting quarterbacks and you completely change the system and you just lost your top rb, wr's, lineman, 12 players transfer, lose a lot of defense and have only 2 players on the team that were eventually drafted in first 5 rounds of the draft one being a punter, I don't understand how people don't see a bigger picture!!!????
January 11th, 2011 at 5:54 PM ^
Ok, so you and the guy above wanted more RR. I (and the majority of the non-mgobubble) disagree, but that's ok. My point is that all of the angry taunts from RR supporters that any critique means a person is 'not a fan', are now clearly hypocritical garbage. Whatever your thoughts on RR, at least apply the same standard to the new coach.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:04 PM ^
Being a fan and still questioning the logic of hiring a mediocre coach to replace guy who was making some progress are not mutually exclusive. I'll support Hoke as the new coach, but I still think RR deserved another year and is a better coach. I hope Hoke proves me wrong, but don't attack my fandom because I don't jump and accept that this was the best move the DB
January 11th, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^
Not attacking your fandom. That's left for RR supporters to do. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who said 'not a fan' to anyone who criticized RR or said that RR wasn't given a fair shake from the fans...only to complain about hoke on day 1. That's all.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:06 PM ^
You make no sense and I will stop listening to you now.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
But that perspective was equally valid in assessing Rich...but you wouldn't believe it around here.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:22 PM ^
Since you keep saying everyone is going to transfer, he's going to switch systems (and the fact Hoke wishes he was left with that 08 defense compared to this).
January 11th, 2011 at 5:44 PM ^
The athletic dept. should have slept in the bed it made and given RR a 4th year (unless u have an ACE in your pocket).
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<br>Baring a motel room full of dead hookers, every school should give a coach 4 years.
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<br>RR underachieved, now so has the AD.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^
I'm sure RR would have killed to inherit the B1G offensive player of the year, a veteran line, the number 2 receiver in the conference, and a young defense with some depth.
<br>Hole isn't a bad guy, but to argue that people are hypocrites for saying Hoke is walking into a better situation and that RR was given a bad shake is ignoring reality
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January 11th, 2011 at 6:27 PM ^
Rich came into no offensive talent, or just young talent, and some defensive talent, and Hoke walks into an offense with some pretty good talent (I mean, Denard's transferring, right? That's all I keep hearing), and the worst defense of all time. We have good QB's, and a good line, but after that everyone else is Big Ten average. Martin's on an island on that defense.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:03 PM ^
dahblue: "he had to go because he failed to get the job done."
<br>But you don't fire a person for past failures--that makes no sense--you fire a person because you think you can replace him with somebody who can do better than him in the future. So the relevant question is not how good Michigan was last year, it is whether Hoke will be better over the next 3 years than the last guy would have been.
<br>I have my opinion on that, but the decision has been made.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:35 PM ^
You fire a person if you think the future will be no different than the past.
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<br>You really think a new DC + Woolfolk + freshmen turning to sophomores + current offense turns the 20 point losses to the good teams into wins? Because I don't see it. 20 points is a lot.
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<br>Sure RR got a raw deal in many respects, but he also showed some serious shortcomings in decision making and team management. There may not have been any Miles level blunders, but there were some things to question his decision making.
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<br>Put it this way: if RR was at a different school and just put up the record that he did at UM, with all of the baggage, there is no way in hell that any of you would want to touch him with a ten foot pole. There were very good reasons to think that he wouldn't have been able to turn Michigan into a NC caliber team.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:37 PM ^
Does that mean that after new "transition controversies", transfers, a dead recruiting class, another complete culture/scheme change. . .
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<br>Hoke will be fired if he goes 3-9, 5-7, 7-5 w/a bad bowl loss?
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<br>We deserve this because other coaches see we are impatient & poisonous.
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<br>I WISH we were Notre Dame right now.
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<br>I'll support Hoke, but I think it's going to be 5 years in the wilderness.
January 11th, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
Probably. Because then he'd tie the worst coaching record of all time at Michigan.