if you don't recall, the # has been designated a "michigan legend" in honor of desmond.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
if you don't recall, the # has been designated a "michigan legend" in honor of desmond.
...some Desmond Howard and Junior Hemingway pixie dust will rub off on him.
Your signature isn't completely wrong...
He gets partial credit.
So is the #21 a stepping stone for the #1 jersey, or am I wrong? I guess the best reciever on the team will wear #21, but if the reciever can become legendary he will wear #1?
I believe that Braylon Edwards (possibly through language written into the scholarship that he set up) has a say in who can wear No. 1...But, yes, I believe that receiving No. 21 means you're awesome, while receiving No. 1 means you're super-awesome.
Here is what needs to happen:
#1 Jersey: Best player on the team
#2 Jersey (Woodson patch): Elite DB
#21 Jersey (Desmond patch): Elite WR
#87 Jersey (Ron Kramer patch): Elite TE
#11 Jersey (Wistert brothers patch): Elite DT
#48 Jersey (Gerald Ford patch): Elite Center
#47 Jersey (Bennie Oosterbaan patch): Elite DE
#98 Jersey (Tom Harmon patch): Elite RB
Dave Brandon openly said that in the future he is going to get the approval of the families of the players whose number is retired, so they can be honored as a Michigan Football Legend and have a patch. I think it's a great idea.
Why do you say that? Tom Harmon is a legend. I don't think it will be completely out of the ordinary for RB's to want to wear #98 if they make a legend patch for the number and take it out of retirement.
I don't think that anyone who knows what Tom Harmon mean to Michigan wouldn't think of it as a complete honor to wear the number on the field at Michigan. I mean the man was the first Heisman winner at Michigan, and got a freaking Purple Heart in WWII. What more of a selling point do you need?
What he said. These kids care far less about it than we do. Granted, maybe a 4th or 5th year RB at Michigan might have developed enough fondness for the specifics of tradition, but lots of these kids also want to put their stamp on Michigan history. From my experience with sports the high numbers aren't so popular (aside from 69, cause well obviously, and 99, Gretzky). Even those exceptions are not very prevalent.
In fact, none will be. Because they're freshman, and not stars. The earliest they could be offerred the patch would be sophomore year, by which time they will have been indoctrinated into the culture.
I know Harmon's "old news" but he's one our only heisman trophy winners. I've got to believe that every sophomore knows who he is, and if not every junior/senior at least.
...His sons an actor .... What more do you want?!!!
That being said....there is zero swag in a #98 jersey for a running back. Recruits will have no idea who tom harmon is and won't identify with his heroism.
of doing this legends patch type program is to help teach our incoming football players and our ongoing football teams about the history and accomplishments of those who came before them so that they identify themselves as Michigan Team no. 133 and see themselves as the proud bearers of an ongoing story and tradition.....
Dont think its actually possible to get star RBs to wear #98.
From wiki, numberings of offensive players from the NCAA rulebook:
Backs 1-49 Snapper 50-59 Guard 60-69 Tackle 70-79 End 80-99
How many #98 RBs do you remember from the last decade?
Isn't there a rule that all OL #'s have to be between 50's to 79? Ford's 48 may be tough to get by.
11, 47, 48, 87, and 98 are retired numbers.
Dave Brandon openly said he is going to eventually get permission of the families of the players whose numbers are retired, and honor them as a Legend.
So will Taylor Lewan wear the #1 jersey next year? He'll be the best player.
Until someone can make Ohio fans give him a standing ovation in Columbus, Ol' 98 should still be retired.
I think this is the best plan on handling this "number thing". Unretire all the numbers create patches for the special players in those positions and give number 1 to the best player on the team. It would be the start of a great new Michigan tradition. I know no other team doing this.
I also think Braylon endowing the Number 1 jersey makes me devalue it just a bit ..... Strangely happy to see Roy rep the 21 over the 1.
Hmmmm..I think the probability of Denard wearing #1 this year just got increased.
Roundtree never had a shot at the #1. If he wore it, after Hemmingway, Matthews, Manningham, and Avant didn't, I'd be pissed.
Agreed that he never had a shot after last season. What I am thinking is that #21 is going to be given out to the best WR (most likely Junior/Senior) and #1 will transition to the best player on the team (again, most likely Junior/Senior). Just speculation on my part...but it kind of makes sense instead of having TWO "special #s" both for wide receivers.
Wouldn't be a quasi-insult to Desmond to give his honored number to the 2nd best receiver on the team. That just doesn't feel very honorary.
Except how do you pick the best player on a football team like Michigan? Everyone's role is completely different and judging from the way we're recruiting it's likely that most of those roles will be filled by someone pretty damn good. There's no way to fairly assess who is best. Bad idea.
One thought I had was about how the team has its awards banquet after the season.
The #1 could go to a junior-turning-senior, who is voted team MVP by his peers - which coincidentally applies to Denard.
This of course, is pure bullshit speculation
Sometimes it is pretty easy to pick the best player on a football team like Michigan, sometimes it's not. This year it is easy to pick the best player on Michigan. You don't have to give out the #1 every single year, but this year, if Denard wants #1, I would be for it.
let him stay #16 since he's already on the cusp of turning that number itself into something special for future players to wear. I mean, just think of a player 10 years from now being able to say he wore #16 just like John Nava.....errr...Denard!!!
I don't think 21 was "special" when it was given to Desmond. He made it special.
Just like 2 wasn't very special until Woodson won the Heisman in it.
If Butterfield can don the #1, anyone can.
Game changing. That is what I do!
This seems to suggest that the team's top receiver every year will get the #21. I guess that's fine, since there's already a number to denote an extraordinary WR.
that would give the jersey to Gallon. Roy was a great slot, but has yet to prove he is even an average WR when forced to go up against CBs. The fact that any WR is wearing 21 this year really surprises me.
I'd prefer not to have the jersey switching hands on an annual basis. Let someone have a career with it.
Not knowing that you were the OP, I thought of your sig immediately when I saw the title of this post. Good call.
Read an article a while back about how the #1 jersey thing is getting a little out of hand as far as what the criteria are. The longer we go without having someone wear it, the harder it becomes for someone to be worthy of it. Also with all of the hype surrounding it, I worry that it might go against the team mentality/hurt the psyche of the other receivers. It's become a tougher situation than it ever should have with the whole endowment thing and all the hype about Hoke bringing it back. I would like to see someone get it sooner rather than later, even if that player is not necessarily a top 5 receiver in college like the past #1s.
The following is the list of all of the Michigan receivers who have worn No. 1. Not all of them were world-beaters.
Anthony Carter (1979-82); Greg McMurtry (1986-89); Derrick Alexander (1990-93); Tyrone Butterfield (1994-96), David Terrell (1998-2000); Braylon Edwards (2003-04).
Was not deserving. Best known for dropped ball vs. UVA that allowed Mercury Hayes to catch a Driesbach pass on the final play.
Yeah, all the other guys were good/great WRs. Butterfield actually was a blue-chip recruit (which is why he got the jersey) but just didn't pan out.
I don't get the sense that anyone is striving for the No. 1 like the endowment intended for because it somewhat unattainable. Any player who has ever talked about it refers to it as something they would be honored to recieve but not something they focus on.... It does seem like the 21 is the new 1.
I LOVE this move. Roundtree deserved something, but he's obviously not even close to deserving the famed #1 jersey. I think the #21 is more about being a leader and having a deep love for the school, which I really think Roundtree has right now. Hemingway and Desmond obviously both had that (not that Hemingway was really selected), but Roundtree continues that tradition.
Wearing the #1 jersey as a WR was made "important" by a bitching Braylon Edwards.
Wearing the #21 jersey as a WR was made important by the football program.
I know which number is more prestigious in my eyes.
What Hoke should do is give JT Floyd the #1 jersey.
Step up Blake Countess!?
Good thought. It would probably have to wait till next year, as Vincent Smith is likely to be on kickoff returns and Countess is also a candidate there. If Countess has a good sophomore season then he should be ready for #2.
Should not have one player wear that number for perhaps 3 years.
I think it's funny that the #1 has all the hoopla (thanks to Braylon, some of it ridiculous) and talk about it, but Desmond Howard won the Heisman in #21 and now since it has the patch, it may likely pass #1 as the most important jersey number for WRs.
With that, I would love Denard, or anyone really, to wear #1 sooner or later, just to get the monkey off all our backs. Everyone has opinions, and some complicated criteria about who deserves to win the number. It just needs to go back to being a number for very good players, not just something that we hold for players we think are going to be literally legendary.
21 is legendary, 1 has just been some great players
21 > 1
Devin has to wear something at WR.
MICHIGAN WINS! 2 run walk-off RBI double to win 3-2!
EDIT: Opps wrong thread, but I will still spread the news to you all!
AC was awesome, and Terrell and Braylon were exciting, but Desmond won the Heisman.
When you hear #16, do you think of Smith, or Navarre? NO! You think of Denard. Don't confuse matters by sticking him with #1.
I would rather the #1 be used as recruit bait.
They passed more often when desmond played. AC scored a TD 1 out of every 4 touches and left Michigan with almost all the receiving records.
Yeah, before AC showed Michigan ran the option almost exclusively. There's a book by Curt Stephenson who played WR right before AC showed up. Theres a bit how he was always hilariously wide-open the few times they did pass because everybody always expected the run. If Anthony Carter played in the late-80's under Bo or under Moeller, he would be talked about as one of the greatest receivers to ever play the game
And just because Desmond won the Heisman and AC didn't (AC was a finalist), that doesn't automatically mean Desmond was the better player. Some years the competition for the Heisman is stronger than others. They were both incredible players.
Roy Roundtree will make Desmond Howard proud. The NUMBER 1 jersey should go to the best PLAYMAKING WR! The NUMBER 2 jersey should go to the BEST CB who can also make some plays on offense to! GO BLUE!!!
I'm also in favor of Denard turning #16 into a Legend.
I have my favorites, of course, but I'm not going to debate one Legend over another. They all played different roles, in different eras, but each one was special to the program at the time. Hell, Kramer's number was retired after his senior season, before he graduated.
In Jon Falk's book, he recalls Bo telling him to give the #1 jersey to Anthony Carter. He was a prized recruit and was going to a good one.
First off, Brayon didn't make the #1 jersey thing a huge deal. It already was a huge deal. RR made a pretty bonehead move and gave it to a freshman DB. Somebody needed to tell RR the mistake, and Braylon did that. He also created the huge scholarship with ties to the number. Those are all fine in my book. He brought attention to it with that stroy - but that story isn't what suddently made the #1 jersey a huge deal.
My views on this have evolved with the changing legacy #'s. Now, I'd love to see:
#21 go to the team's best WR, as long as he is also a great leader and oozes Michigan. Not every year, but about 1/2 the time maybe.
#1 - give it to Denard. Give it to clearly a team's legend player/leader. Once every four years or so. Usually to a senior. To a player that will live in Michigan legend. I now accept this change for the jersey. Brayon agree. I think this would be fun.
#2 - best DB, same every couple years or so (same as #21)
as for the other numbers, we'll have difficulites for players wearing #'s not assigned to their position. Does anyone know if the NCAA can make exceptions for this besides players who play multiple positions?
I, for one, would love to see a RB wearing #98. That would be awesome. I have a feeling that young RB's would love it too. They would be the only player in the country like that - much better than wearing their standard #32, or what not. That would eventually be a nice draw to high school RB's. The completely unique and legendary #98.
I don't think the NCAA has any rules on jersey numbers for positions. The NFL I know for a fact does have it.
I think they do for offensive linemen. Other than that I think it's a free-for-all.
Braylon was the only player who ever had to "earn the No. 1 jersey". Everyone else who wore the jersey just had it given to them as a freshman. So while the guys who wore the jerseys did some pretty productive things while wearing it, it was never how it is now. Braylon came in cocky and Lloyd used handing it out as a motivational tool, that's all
I totally agree with your logic. Bravo!
I think that if you now wear the #21 with the Desmond patch its as prestigious as the #1.
I think Denard really will wear number 1. It kind of makes me sad but from what I've heard and now this.
If it's not a recruiting tool, it's just a fancy helmet sticker. Give it to recruits who are studs. Use it to get them to come here. The point was to have the players learn about the special numbers/players. Your can't honor them if no one wears it. Might as well be retired. That's how it was always done with 1. Braylon just wasn't given it because he was in the doghouse and it was something for him to shoot for by towing the line. If there's a #1 next year, it should be Treadwell. (Don't have any problem with RR getting 21; wouldn't have any problem with a freshman getting it either).
Just out of curiosity, what number did Taco Pants where? Is his jersey in retirement?
If memory serves TP was Avant's imaginary friend.
Hoke should tell treadwell that 1 or 21 is saved for him, too
We don't need booby prize numbers, this is Michigan for God sakes!
Should the number 77 be designated as a Legend jersey? Jake Long was an absolute wall at his position. Maybe the best O-lineman, should get to wear 77.
Doesn't a whole bunch of special numbers make them all less special? The 1 jersey was enough. The reason it became a "thing" is because we had a run of really good WR with that number, the exception being Butterfield. It went to a freshman, and either he lived up to it or didn't.
Great Michigan receivers who didn't wear the #1 jersey: Super Mario, Marquise Walker, Amani Toomer, Steve Breaston, Jason Avant, Tai Streets...... (list not comprehensive)
Didn't Derrick Alexander wear the #1? Did he get it as a freshman?
I am not the exception!
You obviously don't understand expanding the brand. More uniforms and more numbers equals more special.
or was he just looking in the mirror & got confused?
Just a thought, but were I a receiver right now expected to lead this team and step up in a big way, I'd be much more inclined to wear 21, which, I mean, who can't think of JR accepting the MVP in the sugar bowl? Almost seems like everyone but Braylon is avoiding the #1 like the plague. Which is great, in my opinion. Don't make yourself a target. Not to mention, while Braylon was great on the field as a Wolverine, he's devolved into a total diva. His whole scholarship thing is essentially useless, and I hope eventually it gets overhauled.
Hope Roy steps it up big time next year! We need it. Great guy.
I wish the hype about numbers would stop. I think what makes them great is what you do while wearing it. I wish players would keep their number throughout their time with the school. Make every number count...players did not play better because they are wearing #1 or #21...etc. I would hope player wearing #62 would play the best he can...just as hard as #1. It's the players that wear the numbers that are special...not the number.
Just think about this folks. We live in a time where a university athletic department issues a press release about a student athlete switching numbers.
Roy Roundtree is 12. He's been 12 since he got here. Instead of giving him 21, he should keep 12 and have a season that makes 12 a "Michigan Legend."
I like the idea, but Roundtree has worn 12 for 3 years and established himself at that number. If he had made the switch last year, I would understand.
I like the Legends number and think it should be used more in recruiting and given out to outstanding freshmen or sophomore performers (before they really establish their own Michigan identity). But sometimes you have to make room for new legends.
Congrats to Roy! I hope Denard wears #1 and Blake gets #2! My votes are in!
Interesting that the 21 is considered a step below the #1 jersey when the player who wore #21 won the Heisman and was the better player. Braylon is doing a better job of marketing than Desmond and he needs to give Anthony Carter more pub for this jersey getting this much attention.
Why do you consider Desmond a better player than Carter? Don't forget that Carter held all of our career receiving records until Braylon (who played in a much more open offense) finally broke them 20+ years later.
I don't think you can evaluate different players just based on the awards they won. Chris Perry is our only tailback to win the Doak Walter Award, but I wouldn't consider him our best back of all time. He just happened to be the leading vote-getter in his particular year.
I know I'm going to get neg banged for this comment, but if it were me I would want the #21 jersey more because of Desmond.
Give it to Countess.
As for #1, I say give it to an incoming freshman that you know will start or play a lot.
As for Roundtree getting #21, I would consider it an honor if I were him getting #21. Otherwise I would want the same number all four years.
My family always wore #36, so I would be begging Hoke for that number lol
How about #7 for Rick Leach and Chad Henne? To me, #7 is THE number every QB at Michigan should want to wear and further it's legacy.
Henne currently holds every passing record in the single season and career categories.
Rick Leach was the first QB ever at Michigan to start as a freshman, and was a great speedy one too.
Hopefully that gigantic ugly ass patch won't clash with the argyle pattern maize and blue Oregon rips-offs he'll be wearing this year.