Decatur Jack

January 18th, 2015 at 11:43 AM ^

Leach will be gone in 1-2 years and Manning will be kicked to the curb along with the rest of the staff. Here's hoping he can do well enough to be retained by the next coach, who hopefully is defensive-minded.

Good luck, Roy!

Also hoping he comes back to Michigan someday. Dude is awesome.

Joined: 09/20/2011

MGoPoints: 9483

Knight

January 18th, 2015 at 2:21 AM ^

be surprised if he came back to coach here in the future. Kind of got squeezed out with the presence of both Durkin and Mattison, but those two will likely only be here for a few years at most.

Joined: 09/16/2010

MGoPoints: -6

Bagheera

January 18th, 2015 at 2:45 AM ^

Can someone explain the obsession with Roy Manning?  I genuinely do not understand.  What did he do here that makes everyone believe he is an amazing coach?

Joined: 11/18/2014

MGoPoints: 4305

Yostbound and Down

January 18th, 2015 at 2:55 AM ^

He recruited well and is a former player who is not yet 40, has NFL experience. Was he an outstanding coach here? No. Was he even a good coach? I don't know enough to say. But it ceratinly seems like he has what it takes to develop into a good coach, and it's too bad there isn't more room on the staff for him.

Joined: 07/27/2011

MGoPoints: -86513

alum96

January 18th, 2015 at 4:21 AM ^

It's the same obsession with Dennis Norfleet - "I am sure this is the game he is going to break a big one".  And I disagree with the person lower on the page who says Michigan is a place he could have been developed into a good coach.  That is not our job - that is the job of MAC schools or Kansas or Wake Forest type schools.  USC FSU Bama OSU - you dont go there to train on how to be a good coach. You should be damn good to be coaching anything at UM.  Based on where our position coaches landed (Manning is the only one to land a Big 5 conf job as best as I can tell) that was not the ethos under the last coach. 

He is still very young for a coach, go out and prove it, and if you turn out to be upper 20% of coaches down the road, return home someday in the future.  Michigan should not be a training ground for untested coaches (and yes that applies to Jay H, although there is an obvious expection clause) 

It should also not be a pasture for older coaches who almost  no one else wants.  Which it has been of late.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82434

Danwillhor

January 18th, 2015 at 5:08 AM ^

does have an odd love despite not being a superstar. Sadly, he finally returned a kick this year in a big-time moment but it was cashed back on an iffy holding call. I think it's the dancing/attitude. Manning is an average LB/HB coach but a great recruiter. I can name dozens of kids that immediately asked if he'd return in hopes he would.

Joined: 12/02/2008

MGoPoints: 8609

Farnn

January 18th, 2015 at 5:20 AM ^

I really hope Norfleet makes a lot of people look silly with a competent special teams coach this season.  The reason for optimism is probably because he was one of the only playmakers out there this year.  Besides Funchess, no one was exciting to watch.  Plus he was often at a disadvantage on returns considering he too often only had 9 blockers.

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 12788

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 8:42 AM ^

I don't know if I've ever been screaming because Norfleet missed a hole or flat ran the wrong way. I bet I could count on one hand.

He's usually just waiving fair catch or trying to make something from nothing.

Not making excuses, because I don't know if he's any good. But I don't think he's had a chance to prove himself.

We haven't had a good return TEAM since Breaston. He made some plays for damn sure, but his blocking was also a hell of a lot better and he usually had some lanes so he could get that long stride up to top speed before he started gashing opposing teams for chunk returns.

Norfleet hasn't had that.

IMO, I'll wait to pass judgement on Norfleet and on the RBs until AFTER their careers, because Norfleet finally has a real ST coach in Baxter and the RBs finally have a real RB coach in Wheatley (and the OL in Drevno).

If Norfleet is just dancing around (with the ball - not before the play) not going anywhere and he has time and block set up. Then I'll jump on the "overrated" train.

For example, I watched Michael Shaw bounce it outside over and over and over and over when the running lanes were available. He just wasn't good. He was frustrating. Good OL or Bad OL, Shaw was bouncing it to the outside and trying to get the edge.

I don't see Norfleet always trying to reverse field and go against his coverage or something stupid like that. I don't see him just choosing the wrong lanes and getting blown up. There having been lanes or holes for the returner in years.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 8:32 AM ^

But like you said, Jay Harbaugh has WAY less experience. Manning even has more recent experience or D1 experience than other assistants Harbaugh has hired. So Jay Harbaugh isn't the only example.

Manning HAS proved himself, IMO. Being a position coach for 4 years is solid experience when you're trying to be a position coach, lol. It's not like he's trying to be a DC.

Now again, I agree, a person has got to spread their wings and prove themselves and I agree that Michigan isn't the place to start or finish. But Manning was doing neither.

You should ALWAYS be learning on the job. If Durkin isn't learning from Harbaugh and Mattison he's a fool. If Wheatley isn't learning from Harbaugh and Drevno he's a fool.

Those are two guys who are definitely qualified for their positions and they're still learning.

Manning is qualified to be a position coach. We just don't have any position coaching spots available, it's that simple. Don't downgrade the man.

If he went to MSU as the OLB coach, he'd qualify just fine. And their defense SHITS on ours right now.

Again, he's not trying to be a defensive coordinator.

I bet if you did your research, you'd fine a ton of position coaches at Power 5 schools with less experience than Manning. And all will not have the "son of head coach" caveat.

Let's not act like just because we have Greg Mattison coaching a position, clearly over qualified, that that's the standard and the resume one must have.

If Durkin had a DB background and Manning was coaching LBs at Michigan, no one would be worried about inexperience or youth or learning on the job. However, Durkin coaches LBs.

Fun fact: Roy Manning at this point in his career has more D1 experience than Jerry Montgomery had at this point in his career. Jerry Montgomery left to coach DL at Oklahoma (a Michigan equal in terms of program prestige) and he's now, at 35?, a DC at Oklahoma.

No one was knocking Montgomery's experience when he came or left. Apparently Stoops thinks highly enough to promote the man.

Go look at Manning vs. Montgomery's bios on MGoBlue.com - they're almost identical. Manning played in the NFL while Montgomery coached at a HS. They were both in their early 30s at Michigan. Both were defensive grad assistants. Both with 3-4 years of D1 experience.

That's the resume you get for a young position coach. Especially one that you want to recruit and relate to players.

So all of the stuff you said is VERY true. But I don't think it applies to Manning (as it clearly didn't for Montgomery). Manning was qualified and he was not just wanted on the staff because we wanted to stash him away while he learned (like some suggest). Manning's coaching resume shits on Jay Harbaugh's and is right there with others when you talk young D1 position coach.

We just didn't have a position for him to coach, and that's fair. Everyone deals with that in life. I've watched young people pass me in my profession because they worked in a different department and there were opportunities in their field. Those are the breaks, kid.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

alum96

January 18th, 2015 at 9:53 AM ^

Maybe Mongtomery is just that much better than Manning.  (I don't know)

Look at Fisch - same age as Manning more or less no.  Durkin?  He was a DC at 36.  Maybe it was just luck or maybe in every profession there is a distribution curve and some guys are at the top.  Other guys level out.

And I didnt say no one is going to stop learning.   I am sure Mattison is still learning. 

If Manning is not in the top 20% of coaches nationally at LB he should not be coaching at UM.  Period.  Jim Harbaugh had a different opinion of Manning than the majority of the board did, or else he would not let such a hot commodity go.  He'd have found a spot for him - you don't let elite position coaches go.

I don't care if there are "younger guys than Manning in Power 5 teams" - that includes junk teams and average teams.  Michigan's peer group is narrower than generic Power 5 teams, it is about 12-15 teams.   I am sure some have very young coaches - the DC at Wisconsin is a young guy who has had great results with a lot worse athletes than UM benefits from.  Ash at OSU immediately came into that school and improved their D significantly.  Those are high achievers.  UM needs similar high achievers.

If Manning is one, then they should have kept him.  I dont know myself but because he has a UM connection a lot of people seem to be extremely high on a guy that I didnt see "Aranda" or "Ash" like results.  At least he landed a Power 5 job however, unlike most of our prior position coaches.


And I want to couch all my comments above by saying some people rode Manning for his CB coaching whereas I pointed out the development of Lewis this year as one of the good examples of coaching on this team - so I am not sure why he never got credit for that. Yes Countess took a step back but I dont think Countess is as good as many here think - he got burned quite a bit in 2013 but made up for it with high profile INTs.  The same issues with his game remained in 2014 but without the INTs - so I dont blame Manning for that.  Mallory on the other hand had the entire DB in 2013 and it was a below par unit, then they downgraded him to just S and it was the worst unit by a mile on the D.  So my comments sound negative on Manning they are not.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82434

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 10:31 AM ^

I disagree that you "just don't let good positions coaches go."

You do if that position coach is best at DL or LB and you have Greg Mattison and DJ Durkin on your staff. Then you damn sure let that good position coach go, because you have ELITE position coaches.

You don't just stash him at some other position and wait for someone to move on or retire. That's not what you said, but you can certainly take that from what you said.

Jim Harbaugh didn't have to have a different opinion from the board, how do you know that? Jim Harbaugh may LOVE Manning as a LB or DL coach. But he had Mattison and Durkin and he didn't love him as a CB coach. Why is that not plausable? Just because he didn't hire him doesn't mean he doesn't think he's worthy of being on his staff.

And okay, don't take power 5 teams...take UM's peer group. I'm sure there are guys with the similar experience to Manning. I mean I found one for you in Montgomery at Oklahoma. I'm sure there are more.

Also, I haven't seen ANYONE clamor for Manning to stay as a CB coach. You're also judging him off of 1 year while judging other people off of their career. That's not fair at all.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 10:57 AM ^

Zach Smith (OSU) - WRs

Kirk Callahan (UF) - DBs

Tim Skipper (UF) - RBs

Marques Tuiasosopo (USC) - TEs

Adrian Klemm (UCLA) - OL

Taylor Mazzone (UCLA) - QBs

Rhett Laslee (Auburn) - OC/QB

Jay Graham (FSU) - RBs/ST

...I'm sure there are more, but I got bored. Some of these guys have slightly worse or better resume's than Manning, but this would be his peer group as a position coach.

The point is, with his experience, you can coach at this level. This wasn't anyone trying to baby him and give the young pup a shot. I 100% agree, you don't do that...which is why I'm not sold on the Jay Harbaugh hire.

I would've been just as skeptical if Harbaugh had Manning go coach the TEs just because he's a bright young coach. 

Manning is certainly qualified to be a position coach at Michigan or any of it's peer universities. We just don't have a spot for him. IMO, we have one of the top 3-5 DL coaches in the country and an elite DC with a specialty in LBs. Manning is out. But if I'm Alabama, Oregon, FSU, etc. and I have an opening and don't have Mattison or Durkin...Manning would be qualified if you're looking for a young position coach.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

Michigasling

January 18th, 2015 at 10:09 AM ^

Wasn't Jerry Montgomery a lineman himself in his playing days?  It seems it would always be easier to coach the position you played.  (Or for a DB to coach WRs, or WRs or QBs to coach DBs, because they have to learn while playing how to beat and confuse their opposites.)

Manning was a linebacker.  I always got the feeling that Manning was being groomed for being a head coach, perhaps even on the high school level to start, by given opportunities to learn different positions on the job.  But wasn't Mallory the DB coach?  Were we that successful the year before with DB development?  Perhaps Mallory wasn't the best mentor for a young coach to learn and teach that position. 

As much as I'd love to see him develop here, I agree with you.  This move is great for Manning.  More experience teaching his own position and learning from others.

 

 

Joined: 11/21/2009

MGoPoints: 7751

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^

I haven't seen one person call him an amazing coach. I've heard people say amazing guy, amazing recruiter, up-and-comer, former athlete, enthusiastic, positive attitude.

You may not have been putting Manning down, you may have been asking an honest question  it's hard to tell with all the sarcasm on this board. But to my knowledge, no one is calling him an "amazing coach" so if that's what you're basing an opinion from...that's not fair to the rest of us who you qualify as "everyone."

Can you clarify your post? Because it sounds like you're trying to be the differing opinion or be the person who bashes the thing a group of people seem to like.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^

But that's 1. I don't expect you to find every instances...I'm sure there are more.

But my point is, I don't think you'll find enough to form a general consensus.

I can find enough people to form an opinion that says "Jim Harbaugh" or "Greg Mattison" or "Tyrone Wheatley" or "DJ Durkin" is an amazing coach. I don't think one could find that for Manning.

What I do think you'll find is that people enjoy having a young, relatable, high energy, recruit heavy, former NFL player and former Michigan player as a position coach assuming the coach has 3-4+ years of D1 experience.

I will assume that no one wants an entire staff of this, but they like the balance with the Mattison's of the world.

People have even mentioned that they like having a young black coach since many times the team is filled with young black players. I don't see why this is wrong. If I was Washington or BYU, I'd probably want someone of Samoan/Polynesian descent on my staff. At Michigan, I'd want the 10 best coaches, of course, but if I could get one young black coach and one young white position coach to mix in with the rest of the staff, I'd be all for that.

I think it's good to have diversity in race AND age. That's just my personal opinion. I'd want youth and experience. I'd want different races and backgrounds. I'd want guys who could go into the rich private schools and "talk that talk" and other guys who could go into the poorer public schools and "talk that talk"...if I'm Michigan, I wouldn't want to limit myself. I'd want the option to recruit ANY kid in the country.

I think we have that - I KNOW we have that. But people look at Manning as someone who can have a positive relationship with the young players on the team and relate to them.

I've pointed out a number of staffs who have young coaches who likely fill the same void. Some are black, some are white, one is Marques Tuiasosopo. All looking to fill the same role.

Also, I've heard a number of people on here that have actually MET Manning and thought he was a very knowledgeable guy...so that factors in as well.

In the end, he got a job...and congrats to him. We didn't have a spot for him. But he would've been qualified to fill a role on our team.

We also have to realize that the role Manning would've filled (other than position coach) is somewhat already filled. We already have a bunch of guys who can recruit and we have younger coaches who are more lively than the majority of Hoke's staff. They may not be Manning young, but Durkin is 37. He'll relate to a lot o players just fine.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

MGoStrength

January 18th, 2015 at 10:11 AM ^

He's young, he's black (a lot of athlete's he coaches/recruits are too), he's a good recruiter, he played at UM, and he just generally seems like a cool, personable, charasmatic guy.  That's probably why kids like him and he's a good recruiter.  Maybe the secondary wasn't great under him last year, but that's one year.  That doesn't make him a bad coach.  I'm personally disapointed he's not coming back, but I wish him luck.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

ThadMattasagoblin

January 18th, 2015 at 2:57 AM ^

I think he's a good recruiter but was awful with our corners last year. He could have been put out of position for what his skills are though but now he'll get a chance to prove himself at Wazzou.

Joined: 08/24/2011

MGoPoints: 64038

Black Socks

January 18th, 2015 at 3:02 AM ^

I live in Washington and wish Roy luck in Pullman.  It's in the middle of BFE.  I also hope to see him back in A2.  Love a guy from the SVL and UM.

Joined: 11/30/2009

MGoPoints: 14363

Mr. Yost

January 18th, 2015 at 8:46 AM ^

Is like bum/butt fuck, Egypt...weird saying, but I've heard it before.

I assume the other one is Saginaw Valley or something? I read it as his high school (where I assume the poster is from) and his college.

Like said "I love that he's from CT and UM" (Cass Tech and Michigan)

...who knows, I've tried. Godspeed.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

d_ill

January 18th, 2015 at 3:05 AM ^

On some ncaa increase to 10 coaches? Regardless, it will be nice to see him coach his more natural position group. Hope he's back sooner than later.

Joined: 02/09/2009

MGoPoints: 478