I was just browsing through the Big Ten stats website for this season and I noticed that Roy Roundtree in in the top 3 for the league in both receptions (58) and receiving yards (839). With another game to go to get those stats even higher I just wanted to throw that observation out there and ask if people thought he might get some year-end recognition. Obviously, I would take a win over Ohio State if it meant no one on our team got any kind of awards mention, but still, I think it would be nice for Tree to get some love.
Is Roundtree in line for 1st Team All Big Ten?
Sanzenbacher, Derrell Johnson-Koulianos will make it due to individual and team performance.
Roundtree has the tendency to have flat out, 'I wasn't concentrating', drops. He admits it himself. Maybe next year but I don't think so this year.
|Big Ten Conference Leaders - Receiving Yards|
|3||Dane Sanzenbacher||Ohio State||49||818||16.7||74.4||9|
|4||Mark Dell||Michigan State||49||761||15.5||69.2||6|
|7||Derek Moye||Penn State||43||741||17.2||67.4||6|
|10||DeVier Posey||Ohio State||45||696||15.5||63.3||5|
I think YAC would tell a lot more about Roundtree.
Oh, YAC...My bad.
... I wouldn't always discount the ability to be wide open. Some guys are just really good at finding open space. Not certain that's the case with Roundtree, but it could be.
Roundtree runs better routes than anyone else on the team. He doesn't just find open space. The way the offense is designed, good route-running will sometimes get you wide open.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why he is always open? It's because he runs his routes so damn well and he gets right in between zones. He might not be as physically gifted as Stonum and Hemingway, but he is what you call a smart player.
What he said!
he'll at least be in line for breakfast because he's HUNGRY.
Love that kid.
Hone gree. I love that kid too. And he quacks me up.
the #1 jersey. His last drop, the one that preceded JJ Watt's interception, was brutal. It would have been a first down, keeping a drive alive in a critical phase of the game. The game was basically over after that.
It was UNACCEPTABLE, right?
Since I'm just a normal human being who makes errors, can you explain to me what it's like to never make a mistake? When you succeed, is it hollow because there was no other outcome? I've been reading this blog for almost 6 years now and almost never comment but just the chance to interact with someone so perfect was too good to pass up.
But really, you are advocating barring him from future accolades on the basis of one dropped pass? [Do you also encourage retroactively stripping Braylon of his #1, shopping out all pictures of him in that jersey] Even if he has had his trouble with the dropsies, dude is a redshirt sophomore and has made an equal, if not greater, number of great catches where he is plucking balls thrown at the ground or behind him.
Cheer the kids for their successes, don't rake them over the coals for their failures.
I certainly wouldn't know that feeling since I make mistakes all the time. However, I'm not requesting or suggesting that I be given some honorarium at the same time, either.
I think that the #1 jersey thing is overblown, and I wish that Braylon had never set up the special circumstances that attach to the wearer of it. Be that as it may, the significance of the jersey has now become such that it's basically supposed to signal that the wearer is significantly better than his teammates at the same position, and I don't think that Roundtree has proven that, especially not with his drops yesterday. He's a good player, but I don't think he's the difference-maker that Braylon was, in spite of his own problems with dropsies.
This is a different argument from whether or not he deserves to be All-Big Ten, and his numbers are good enough for that. In my eyes, being All-Big Ten does not necessarily equal the "right" to wear the #1 jersey as we conceive of it now.
I may have gone overboard on the perfection stuff and it was not my intention to turn this into a referendum on what qualifies a player to wear the #1 jersey. I was just shocked that you would say a player can never hope/petition for the jersey simply because he underperformed early in his career. You must really hate what Braylon did for/to the number because if you had it your way, he would have never gotten it. I guess when it comes to these players, I'm more glass half full. He has one more season to prove he should wear the number [and still have a season left to actually wear it] and I hope he uses that to motivate him to be the best. He already holds the single game yardage record, it should be making us giddy to know he can still get so much better. If he puts the work in and sets the world on fire next season, I'd hate to have to tell him he can't have it because of some missed plays during his sophomore year.
Has roundtree ever brought up the #1, or are you just making things up?
He's spoken of it a few times this year in press conferences.
You do realize that he's answering questions, right? It would be kind of ridiculous if he didn't want it honestly. What's he supposed to say when they ask him about it? What would you think of a kid who answered the question: Do you want the most prestigious thing the coaching staff gives to a WR with "Nah, I'm good."
And do you know how he's answered those questions? "Yeah, I definitely want that jersey."
And you would like him to say what?
I'm just focused on winning. right now. I want to get better, and we'll see from there.
I really don't care what he says. But if he is serious about wanting that jersey, he's got to play like it all the time. We can't afford two drive-killing drops a game from him.
He did have 7 catches for 114 yards. He's also second in the conference in receiving playing in a run oriented spread.
Yes I know he's not Braylon, but Braylon wasn't perfect, and, while this might come as a shock, the next person who gets the #1 jersey probably won't be as good as Braylon was, nor will his stats be as good.
That two-play sequence was almost a carbon copy of what happened in the first quarter against Illinois: another Roundtree drop followed by a pass tipped at the line and picked. Roundtree's inconsistency is maddening.
His dropping a pass has nothing to do with JJ watt's INT.
Yeah, easy drops would have never happened to Braylon!
Dammit, you beat me to it. Comment Redacted.
Yeah, Braylon NEVER dropped easy passes.
...is there anyone else on the offense who we think will make 1st Team all Big Ten? Denard obviously warrants consideration, but I wonder if someone like Tolzien gets the nod over him because of overall team success. Besides, as great as Denard has been, he's had some notably flaws during Big Ten plays. Who else might make it? Molk?
(I hold out no hope for anyone on either defense - although Martin merits at least an argument - or special teams.)
All Big 10 Michigan guys (possibly 2nd or honorable, dont know about 1st team
Everyone else has had errors in extreme during the B10 season... which is really what matters (how you play against delicious desserts is not really an impact factor)
Even with his mistakes and relatively poorer play during the Big Ten campaign I would be stunned if Denard wasn't at least 2nd Team All Big Ten. He's accounted for more yards and TDs than any other QB in the conference and it's not even close.
I can't see Martin getting All-Big Ten recognition. He's been hobbled for almost the entire conference season and just hasn't been healthy enough to make a difference when he's been in there.
Schilling might have a shot.
Before Martin, I'd put Short, Liuget, Klug and Danies. About even with Martin are Worthy, Ogbu, Still, Larimonre, Edwards and Simon, IME.
But I see Schilling over Omameh. I think Schilling has faced harder match ups (more often taking on the other DT), I personally think Schilling is a better all around G at this point, and, though it shouldn't, seniority definitely comes into play with these sorts of things.
Also, Mouton might get honorable mention, only one person needs to vote for you to get that and I could easily see that happening (not saying he's deserving or not, just what I think could happen)
He's had too many drops to justify a first-team selection.
I think Roundtree will come into next year as one of the top-3 WRs in the B10, but unless he blows up against OSU he probably will be overlooked this year. Definitely 2nd team, with room to grow.
His game is nice! He runs great routes in space.
on what happens this week.If SHOELACE leads us to victory,he's gotta be consider for first team.If TREE has a big game,look at his stats so far,yeah he's drop a few passes but who hasn't?I think SCHILLING deserves at least 2nd team.We know that OMAMEH is a beast,at least 2nd team also.MOLK is also at least 2nd team.MARTIN is 1st team, everybody knows he's are best player,and he still makes plays,not to mention he's always double teamed!!!GO BLUE!!!
Round1ree and the 1
Denard has 660!!!!! more yards than the next guy on the total yardage list. SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY. He should be the offensive POY not to mention the first team QB. Scott Tolzien: yeah right.
I love Denard, but he's not the best QB in the conference. Yards are not the only way to evaluate a player.
He's 5th for passing efficiency, but the gaps are close: Stanzi is first at 163.2 good for 6th in the country. Robinson is 158.2, good for 16th in the country. In between are Tolzein, Persa and Pryor. Cousins at 152.6 is 21st in the country. Of those guys, Denard has the worst TD-interceptions and best yards/attempt. The efficiency rankings seem about right when thinking about passers.
But good gosh, there are those 1538 yards rushing and 14 touchndowns. The only gues worth even mentioning are Scheelhaase (684 & 3) and Pryor (719 & 4). I don't have fumble stats. FWIW, Michigan also leads the Big Ten in fewest sacks allowed and allowed per attempt.
Awards are by position, not function.
The jmblue QB efficiency corollary? I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't first team, but I do think he's had the best season of any QB in the conference. Not exactly a stellar list of quarterbacks in the Big Ten.
You guys are cherry-picking one statistic (total offense) and using it to argue that he is the best QB in the conference. What about the other measures? Passing efficiency? Passing TDs? Turnovers? By most measures, he's good but not great.
Which is more valuable: a guy who records 350 total yards and 3 turnovers a game, or a guy who records 250 and one or fewer? Which is more likely to lead his team to victories? I love Denard, but he's very mistake-prone, and those mistakes have limited our offense in many games. When he stops making so many mistakes, he'll be the best QB in the conference.
I would argue that the Denard who averages 341 yards a game, while completing 63% of his passes with 1.5 TDs passing, 1.3 TDs rushing, and a little unter 1 INT a game is a much better player than Ricky Stanzi who averages 243 yards completing 66% of his passes 2.1 TDs (throwing and running) and .36 INTs a game.
I don't think it's very close honestly.
So, Denard puts up an extra hundred yards a game, but then erases them with an interception and fumble and he's the better QB?
He's lost like two fumbles all year. He averages over a hundred yards and almost half a TD more, which more than makes up for the extra .5 turnovers a game. Do you really think one turnover is worth 100 yards??
Look at their play against Big Ten teams. Denard doesn't even come close to Stanzi.
And, if those 2 lost fumbles were the only ones he's put on the ground, then fine, but considering he has fumbled somewhere around 10 times and has been lucky to have his teammates cover them up, I'd say they hold a lot more weight than what you are giving them credit for.
Also, once Denard can throw a slant in front of the receiver, he can be considered for awards.
Those are not turnovers anymore than Stanzi's throw right to Jordan Kovacs was an interception! LOL at "Denard doesn't even come close to Stanzi", this is the point where I ask for evidence because I can't find any and you don't supply any.
I like how your first argument was "Denard throw one million interceptions a game and only rushes for 1 more TD" and when I showed that to be false and ridiculous transformed into "Stanzi is sooooo much better in conference", which, until I see some numbers, that's like just your opinion, man.
Michigan has by far the best offense by yardage and the third best scoring offense in the Big Ten. I think it's pretty reasonable that the player most responsible for that should be a first team Big Ten player.
You're right. It is my opinion. This whole thread is one big opinion. There is no clear #1 QB in the conference, which is why we are having this conversation. I just respectfully disagree with your assessment.
I think your last paragraph pretty much sums up my point. I think that the player most responsible for not having the #1 scoring offense in the Big Ten when you are by far the best offense by yardage cannot possibly be a first team Big Ten player.
If you want numbers, Denard robinson averages 8.2 yards by touching the ball and he scores a TD 6.5% of the time he touches the ball. Stanzi averages 7.7 yards when touching the ball and he scores a TD 6.7% of the time he touches the ball. TD:TO ratio? 30:12 and 25:4. How many games has Stanzi thrown multiple interceptions? None. How many has Denard? Three.
The difference between the two? Denard has touched the ball about 100 more times than Stanzi has on the season and Stanzi's doesn't have a consistent drop in production against teams with 7 wins or greater right now.
To my recollection Denard has thrown 10 INTs and lost 2 fumbles this year. That amounts to 13 turnovers, or 1.18 per game. By contrast he has thrown 14 TDs and run for another 16. That 30 total TDs to 13 turonovers, about a 2.25:1 ratio. Not an earth-shattering number, but hardly handicapping.
Also, your inverse cherry-picking (ignoring total offense in favor of other stats) is the exact same offense you accuse us of. So not only are you innaccurate, but you are either hyopcritical or illogical. Kudos.
Not that I necessarily think he should be fist team QB, 30 TD's is a lot, in 11 games also. You can't just throw out the rushing numbers, they did happen while he played QB. Also, the #16 rated passer by efficiency is pretty damn good.
Who is the best QB in the conference then? What is a better measure for a QB? Don't you think Denard makes up with his slightly worse passing efficiency when compared to guys like Tolzien and Stanzi by being the nations leading rusher???
Of whatever fucked up, subjective measure you come up with to evaluate QBs or any player - Denard is absolutely in the discussion as the best QB in the Big Ten. And he's done that that basically as a RS Freshman. Michigan's struggles are not his - he's been streaky, but his margin for error is so much smaller when he has Michigan's D and not Iowa, OSU or Wisky's backing him up and fans think he should be downgraded for that.
His passing numbers are up to snuff, and he's making history as a rusher. He deserves it.
I think a big factor in this debate is the weight that should be given to non conference vs conference games. Obviously Denard had way more success in non conference play. I think he's still in the conversation, though.
Denard is just a sophmore, that is the amazing aspect. Give him a year or two of experience and he will be winning his share of awards, maybe even some big ones in NYC. He has work to do, but he will get there and get the praise he deserves.
In terms of allowing Smith to get wide open looks: better in the BT. While teams have been trying to lock him down recently, he's been able to get wide open passes to 'Tree (1st play Illinois) and draw defenders from V. Smith (look at Smith's yardage recently).
Biggest threat, best QB athlete, and most yards (by FAR). Still, because he's not the best traditional QB he doesn't get the award. Yet, I find that the award doesn't always go to the best player, just as the heisman doesn't.