Hoke was top notch at this aspect of his job.
Roseboro article Detroit News
Roseboro is a coney dog from DT and we are still pursuing him.
Probably a combination of him adding the weight and the coaches not thinking they had a good chance with him. Makes more sense to use their time and resources on players they have a more realistic chance at landing.
Yeah, like on NCAA video game recruitng
I think we knew he was not coming our way. Do you ever really turn down a 5 star? I also have a hunch our coaches don't have him ranked that high and maybe don't see him as a fit for the program.
To answer your question with your own comment, yes you do turn down a 5 star?
In this circumstance but my point is Michigan likely does not see Cornell as a 5 star.
turned down Peppers?
He was a 5 star in name only because he was a lean muscle WDE prospect last year, he is not a 5 star DT prospect.
So we are in a position to turn down high 4s then? Roseboro is a 4 we are actively pursuing who on paper is almost a carbon copy of Cornell.
Maybe they have different frames and one carries their weight better? I'm just speculating though.
That is exactly what Sam Webb said. He said that at 280 Roseboro looked like 240, so his weight is much leaner and more efficient. Should maintain the athleticism necessary to play DE at a higher weight
As the other posters said, we have a better chance with Roseboro. Additionally, the coaches had Roseboro ticketed as a SDE from the get go but expected Cornell to be a WDE. Once Cornell started growing into more of a SDE, maybe that changed the coaches perspective on Cornell and his abilities. It's better to focus on a guy we have a chance with versus a guy who doesn't seem to interested anymore. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Roseboro plays FB/RB on his team too which would indicate he has decent athleticism and mobility. Plus, I am sure much of Roseboro's weight isn't good weight and he will shed plenty of pounds when he enters a college strengthening and conditioning program.
My friend who is a high school coach saw cornell at SMSB, he told me that some of the college coaches felt Cornell added weight and lost quickness and agility. In the article it says Rosenboro added weight but didn't lose agility.
For the insight, brethren.
with Cornell were important. He asked to visit and was planning to commit soon. It wouldn't take up a lot of resources to at least have him take that visit. We've hosted plenty of longshots before. To me that's a very clear indication that our coaches were no longer interested, nothing more.
now, with that in mind, should Cornell become an all american and top ten pick are we allowed to question the coaches judgement?
Personally I hold the coaches accountable for everyone the offer and anyone the are recruiting and either withdraw an offer or slowplay...
Or at least that's how M is recruiting him.
EDIT: This was meant to be a reply further up there, so I'll edit all but to add that I wasn't quite sure what you mean by "a coney dog from DT." Great phrase, however. So feel free to clarify.
almost had DT size. Another example:
That big safety is a sandwich away from being a LB.
Think Wormley. He is a huge DE who can rotate inside at DT. Currently he is the only guy on the DL in the spring roster who is not listed as a DE or a DT. He is just DL. He is about the same size as Roseboro and Cornell.
Did you know that although Coney island hot dogs are not eaten at Coney Island, in Montreal they're called Michigan dogs? (Thought I should contribute something useful.)
Cornell cooled on UM. MSU and OSU were his final 2 from all accounts. ND and UM behind. Don't waste resources on someone who is clearly not that into you. Why they use Sam W for face saving, I don't get but you are right - Roseboro and Cornell are about the exact same build and both are HS DEs looking like DT weights right about now.
“I think that (another) thing that made it stand it out was meeting Coach (Hoke), meeting the coach’s wives, and the other coaches. They’re not rushing in and out -- not rushing us from here to there or kind of (trying to) sell themselves. They pretty much let themselves be sold by just acting normal toward us.”
I know it has been discussed before, but it is interesting to see a lot of recruits - particularly some high-profile ones - point this out consistently over the last few yers now. This staff seems to go out of their way to be just people insomuch as a coaching staff can within the rules and I would think this definitely helps us more often than not.
The kids and parents see it as very genuine and not BS. It's one of the reasons I want Hoke to be successful. You get the feeling he cares about the kids whether they are All Americans or walk-ons. Some of these big time coaches really screw with kids and then run them off if they don't think they can use them. It's why Mattison came. It's why you don't see much turnover of staff.
Roseboro is the one I want the most.
I hear you and would agree normally, but there are a couple in this class I want BAD and that's KLS and Osa Masina. Osa just released his top 6 two days ago and most believe it'll be the same battle we'll have for KLS...which is UCLA and the good guys.
My first question is why did they stop recruiting Cornell because of his weight and potential projection to DT, when it seems like Roseboro is heavier? Second, the bench press is one of the worst indicators of football ability. And third, 32 repetitions on a bench press says nothing of his "power" despite the article's reference to it.
I think it could be how they carry their weight differently, possibly, or if they feel one prospect is 'topped out' as a high schooler or if another they feel is still going to move up the weight scale. From the article, it states that Roesboro has always been much heavier than he 'looked' or plays. Maybe the coaches feel that he can cary that weight much better and keep athleticism as a DE, while Cornell's body is really morphing into a sterotypical DT or even NT if he gets any bigger.
That's exactly the point that Webb has made on numerous occasions when talking about Cornell: the staff apparently feels that he's destined to be an interior DL, and they don't need any more DLs in this class, while they do need DEs.
I like the sound of that! I really don't know a lot about the kid, but he sounds like a great prospect and has a pretty impressive list of offers. I just get irked with the mis-representation/understanding of strength and performance and how it relates to sports.
Shouldn't you know seeming how you know everything there is to know about training and exercise science that when some people gain a lot of weight they lose a lot of speed and athleticism while others gain weight and do not lose anything as far as speed and athleticism?
LOL, thanks for the compliment! There are very few hard and fast rules when it comes to exercise science. As Brad Schoenfeld said "In an applied science like exercise/nutrition, the answer to virtually every question is it depends. Never and always rarely apply."
bench still is a good example overall how strong the kid is. woodley at two inches shorter and about 20 pounds lighter only benched 29 reps at his pro day. its impressive for an upcoming hs senior
There are a few problems with that logic. One, how do you define overall strength and how does the strength of one movement correlate to others if you account for body mass? Two, strength is not a very good indicator of football playing ability when it comes to 1-repetition maximum lifts like squats, benches, deadlifts, hang cleans, etc. Three,bench press, like any exercise is all about technique and biomechanics. I doubt many people would say that David Molk is stronger than Ndamukong Suh, yet Molk did 41 reps on the bench and Suh did 32. Having short arms is beneficial to a bench press, however having long arms is beneficial to almost every position in football. I'm not saying this kids bench press numbers are not impressive...they are. I'm just saying it is not a very useful judge of much other than being good at bench pressing.
That I will agree with! It says much more of the lactate threshold than it does maximum strength or power.
I agree with this. The arm length thing is the biggest problem with bench press. Having short arms gives you a major advantage on a bench press, yet having long arms gives you a major advantage in football, so it can get very tough to tell. Now, if you compared the bench press of guys with similar arm length, it could be more useful, but by itself it tells next to nothing.
your point about bench strength and power and having that translate to being a good football player. Yes much goes into it like Balance leverage speed leg strength. It sounds like Roseboro carries that weight very well and to rep 225 32 times in high school is pretty sick. Remember Chris Zorich? If given the choice I'm taking the 6'3" 290 LB kid who reps 32 times and looking forward to lining him up on a kid the same size that reps it once. (assuming it's 225)
His bench press is pretty impressive. But, bench press is not a power exercise nor is it an indicator of being powerful as the article said...that was my issue. A better indicator of power would be like a hang clean, a vertical jump, a broad jump, or a short sprint. Personally I'd take a kid with good footwork, good change of direction, long arms, and good balance over a good bench press any day.
The dream finish to our recruiting class = 1. Roseboro 2. Lucier South 3. Cole 4. Harris 5. Campbell 6. Wheatley Jr.
I don't like the vibe from Cole/Harris and it's as if we've never even met Campbell. I like our chances with Roseboro/Wheatley and KLS is within reach, at least.
Sidenote: Sam Webb tweeted that M is "WAY up" on McMillon's list
I am with Wee on this. Cole you almost never hear talk about UM. He seems very quiet in his recruitment. As was Malik last year. Harris seems OSU bound. Forget Campbell long gone.
I think the finish is something like
Roseboro, Wheatley, Weber and 3-4 other prospects. No idea who those others are but of the guys we are in a strong final 3-5 those seem like the 3 likely and Weber mostly because of Scott to MSU and Harris to OSU. Weber is supposedly very close to Blackwell and family so that is a wildcard. KLS just seems like a guy who is staying out west.
Apparently the first time KLS ever got on a plane was to go to the opening. This leads me to believe he will stay in LA close to family.
Has Cole been saying good things about other schools? I don't remember seeing many quotes from him at all, so if he is just keeping quiet it might not be a bad sign he isn't saying much about UM.
I agree. Cole has not said much about favorite schools or even his position. Seems like we hear WR but has he stated that is what he wants to play? I would let him choose but I would like to see him come to Miichigan and play DB.... maybe even Safety. He looks like the best player in Michigan. I get the feeling he is waiting to see how our season goes.
Does anyone know if he got 32 on 225 or 185 ?
Thank you sir ! I figured as much, which is still impressive for a high schooler.
Roseboro is gonna be a star, like Trevor Pryce level skill.
Great headline, OP. Maybe you could simpify it more next time, something like "Newspaper atricle."
Understand the point but I have a hard time thinking of UCLA as bad guys given the other school in their neighborhood.