Just came across this post by Craig Roh's dad over on the Scout board. I think what he says is very true, and a great post!
Roh's Dad Post on Scout
As the parent of a current UM player and 9 months out of the recruiting process, it is important for all forum posters to understand that recruits and their parents subscribe to and read your posts, both postive and negative. This is one of the easiest ways for a recruit to see what is going on behind the scenes in a football program.
GVSU grads are...
That made my laugh, thanks.
This goes back to the "Don't say it if you wouldn't say it to the parents face" post. Don't say those things because you might be saying it to the parent.
should PM him to come over here, seems a lot less chicken little doom and gloom tbh
Good point, Irish. I'd love to get his insight over here. Intelligent thought process is always welcome.
I'm really hoping that this makes the MGoBlog front page because it definitely applies to our board here too.
Does it apply to the part of this board that questions/criticizes Rodriguez, or the part that trashes the players, blaming them for this mess?
No one is blaming the players and saying "THEY SUCK". When you have 20 less athletes than the scholarship limits then that is a problem.
It's not the players fault it's just a bad situation.
Yes, yes pretty much every Rodriguez supporter mentions how bad the talent is, and mentions names, and criticizing the level of play, while absolving Rodriguez of any blame.
Sorry, that's blaming the players in one way or another. Oh, and yeah, it IS saying "they suck"
On this, you are correct. Much though I hate to admit it.
that you're playing against, that is a bad situation that RR was put in.
I was going to make that point also.
What he's saying (and I think you know), is that most of the people around here are saying that our defensive talent "is not good at football", and in many cases that our players suck.
It's not right to just completely ignore the point he's making, even if it doesn't make us all warm and fuzzy inside. Now, to be very clear, I'm only talking about the one comment above that we're both replying to. Nothing else, he spews bile a great deal of the time. But is also entitled to his opinion, just as we all are. I don't agree with his views on RR at all, but the point he made regarding your comment above was correct.
For myself, I think the AD must give him four years. Anything less, and it isn't fair to anyone involved. Go Blue.
I used to respect your post's even thou people negged you all the time, because i respected your opinion, but now i realized you are just a HATER!!!!!
It probably applies to anyone trashing anyone on here. Criticism on both sides has often strayed into the bounds of personal attacks and insults instead of trying to maintain some semblance of reasonable evaluation or discourse. It's amazing what people will say over electronic mediums that they wouldn't dare say to someone's face.
If there was a mgouser manic depressive award for point totals, you my friend would have the award every week.
Why did you never respond to Seth9? There is a thread specifically for you that you somehow didn't see.
Personally I don't have a problem with intelligent criticisms of Rogriguez, what I have a problem with are declarative statements about the future of the program from people I don't trust as having any insight into what is really going on. This is what could be potentially damaging to a 17/ 18 year old kid.
Rich Rod is out next year. Mercifully for everyone. There are factions at UM and in the Athletic Dept that do not like Rich, do not like that one of Lloyd's boys isn't the coach, do not like the hiring and subsequent legal ugliness.
Well, like I said: Short and sweet. Rodriguez is a goner. Dead Coach Walking. This isn't the time to think like a FAN, ladies. It's time to realize Rodriguez was sabotaged by someone at UM, the university hasn't exactly come out to support him, and well, Year Two has turned into a disastah.
"So, before you write your next critical comment on Rich Rod and on a player, you might want to think about who will be reading it. Why in the world would a parent want to send their kid to a school where the coach and players are getting ripped every day by hundeds of online fans. Why would a parent want to send a kid to a program where half the fans want the coach fired; where there is continual discussion about universty in-fighting. Those of you who are continually writing these scathing comments are hurting recruiting and the UM football program!"
For those of you who are starting to call this site a "cheerleading" site because you can't post a negative shot at the coaching staff, current players or fans supporting our program without being neg-banged into oblivion, take a moment before you post, calm down, and ask yourself if you're helping or just being selfish and spoiled.
There may be some well-meaning fans out there who are frustrated, but coming on here and flaming out is not helping anyone.
Its hard to believe that no one has come out and said this ridiculously obvious message before... maybe they have but it only gets legs when posted by a current player's dad.
"One main reason I sent my son to Michigan was because of the great fan base and playing in front of 100k people. I am not naive enough to think that fans are not going to be upset after some heartbreaking losses and believe they have a right to criticize coaches and players. However, please understand that these guys came to UM because they believed in the program. They believed in Rich Rod and bought into the idea of building for the future. They want desperately to make things better. They want to go to bowl games and they want to win Bog 10 and National Championships. Do you really think that Rich Rod and Greg Robinson have no idea what they are doing? Do you really think the program will be better off firing Rich Rod? Who, either player or coach, would want to come to UM or stay at UM if Rich Rod got fired and the process starts all over again?"
As myself and other posters have said before Firing RR well exacerbate our problems.
Nice post by Roh's Dad.
I do think that people are over-stating the effect internet forums have on kids today. I think the level of rancor and frenzy displayed on message boards is jarring to people who grew up without them, as they seem mean-spirited and wholly inappropriate. I know sometimes I read them as if the person is just standing there, calling a teenager a **** or a mother****er, and it is jarring.
But I think this generation of kids understand that message boards are the anonymous ramblings of people's darkest thoughts, but oftentimes they are just used to start flame wars or to be a jerk. Plus, they tend to represent a severe minority of any group (look at most popular posting areas - the major complainers constitute an extreme minority of individuals buy a majority of complaints), and kids realize that. I'm sure if they saw something like "player X blows and should be shot" that might hurt their feelings a bit, but others may take it as a challenge.
In "Meat Market" by Bruce Feldman, Joe McKnight, now a USC RB, said that message board hate definitely affected his view of a school. Not that his opinion can be generalized to everyone, but he was the #1 recruit in the country.
I read that book as well, and I am sure it affected McKnight somewhat. I also got a sense, though, that McKnight was looking for excuses to not go to LSU and head out west, and might have latched onto that to show others that he was "driven away" by the locals. Sure there are some nutjobs out there, but if you can't handle some anonymous idiots on message boards during recruiting battles, it is only going to get worse when you start playing for a team and you mess up.
...especially since this kind of behavior on message boards dates back a long time. In fact, I'd argue it's been around since the BBS era of the 1980's.
but are M fans worse than other college football fans? My guess would be no, but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts.
That is just what I was going to post. The passionate fan base/ message board/everything is fine one minute and crap the next, goes on with every major college football program. Message boards across the country are filled with both positivity and negativity. Some slanted one way more than others . Everyone wants to be better, everyone wants the top recruits in the country, everyone wants the hot coach that can do no wrong, everybody wants to win.
No, but leaders and the best and all that...
maybe a better question is "whether or not any fan base should be this way" rather than asking if it's okay since everyone acts this way...
While that is a better question, it's also a Platonic ideal that cannot coexist with the passionate and tribal nature of college football. The internet did not spawn fanbase stupidity, it just gave it an outlet and an amplifier.
I'm not pro-stupidity, believe me, but I think it's part of the deal. If you accept that part of the greatness of college football is passion, part of that package is when passion goes awry. I'm not condoning it and I certainly am fearful of it and repulsed by it when it veers in to the hateful and malevolent, but stupid is going to be out there.
The best thing that those who would seek to limit the damage stupidity can do is to be a positive force for change. It is one action, but collectively, it can mean a great deal.
and 24/7 sports coverage by ESPN and its imitators as amplifiers.
Agreed, and let's face it, angry ranting will always draw more attention than thoughtful, composed, reasonable, data-driven.
If all you want are pageviews, ears, eyeballs, etc, then there's no reason to go for the latter of the two, unless you have specifically desired to tap into an alternative market left untouched because it's higher hanging fruit.
unless you have specifically desired to tap into an alternative market left untouched because it's higher hanging fruit
That used to be what this here blag was all about.
You've had two really great posts today that I thoroughly enjoyed. Well said.
1). I think we're no better or no worse than any fanbase. I think you have loudmouths who shoot their mouths off mostly to hear themselves rant, I think you have thoughtful and reasonable people who want to hear all sides of it, and I think you have a wide valley between the two, with a whole range of opinions. For every place like MGoBlog for Michigan fans, you have MLive and the Freep, etc. (By the way, for those of you boycotting the Freep, if you actually were reading it, you would likely be happy to know that you now have to click an additional link to get the comments on any given story. It makes it far less insufferable to read the stories without the same six ALL CAPS HACKNEYED HAR HAR lines all making it through on every story about anything. (Worth noting, that wasn't just Michigan stories, it's anything. It's honestly like clockwork.)
I think MGoBlog is not necessarily a reflection of the Michigan fanbase as a whole, but rather of a distinct subset of it, larger than perhaps most schools, thoughtful, loyal, but not blindly so, wanting to be constructive in critique, and call things as they see them, even when it's ugly. This does not mean other schools do not have this, but look at the way in which Brian's research minded efforts have spawned imitators in the diaries, imitators which benefit the community as a whole. I think that the community of a site reflects, hopefully, the tone set by the creator and the users.
So are we any better than anyone else? No, well, maybe
less fewer typos than some schools.
Are we any worse? No, but by the same token, when Doc Saturday contributor Doug Gillett called us "a cynical, Eeyorish bunch even in the best of times", I wasn't exactly rushing to say he was wrong.
(Edited with a smile for grammatical orthodoxy.)
fewer typos; we have a reputation to uphold. (:
Michigan fans are classier (e.g. treat visiting fans much better) than almost any other group. Not saying everybody's classy--on the whole, classier.
Our downside is Michigan fans are incredibly entitled, whiny, negative, and panicky. I'm also a Cubs fan so negative and panicky is normal to me at this point as a sports fan. The one nice thing about Cubs fans is they don't feel compelled to loudly announce to strangers online that this is UNACCEPTABLE and they deserve better, and the following offseason moves WILL be made because these are the CUBS--blah blah blah.
When we beat a visiting team and are gracious you see our best on display. If you're anywhere near a UM message board these days...you see our worst.
The amount of bickering and name-calling lately has been sad. I'm as upset as the next person, but at the end of the day, it is still a game, a game I have no control over. Recruits and families do read this stuff, and we look foolish with these constant threads calling out this guy or calling for the coaches to be fired. Like I said earlier, this has ben a humbling experience.
Like I said earlier, this has ben a humbling experience.
I wonder, genuinely, if these two seasons have forever altered Michigan football, or at least for a couple of generations. If you grew up with the Bo/Moeller/Lloyd years, you've never known what it's like to see your team struggle, to be mediocre at best on a good day, to be out of the hunt for the Big Ten title in mid-October. Last season changed things, but I wonder, genuinely, how many fans hung their hat on RichRod's second year record as a given, not as a trend and believed that 2008 was a one and done year in terms of humility. Now we're here in early November, still humbled, still looking for answers, and we have no real history from which to draw. When things get better, will there be a cultural relativism in the Michigan fanbase, opposite to the years of "this is the worst loss ever" when it was one of three losses in a 9-3 season, and instead see a "well, it sucked, but it wasn't 2008 bad..."
Last year changed things, as it was the first time I had experienced a UM team with a losing record. It was humbling, as I grew up in the Moeller and Lloyd era (I'm too young to remember Bo in the 80s), where losing seasons took on a different meaning. Because of that, I was spoiled as a fan. I did not know what it felt like, and to be honest, it puts a lot of things in perspective. I follow UM Football very closely, almost obsessively at times, but at the end of the day, I have no control over the outcome. I think we, as a fanbase, needed this reality check. Losing sucks, but the reactions of some have proven what little patience we as a society have nowadays.
I think the past two years have thinned the herd a bit and cleaned up the bandwagon, but the real UM fans will stick with the team. You see this all the time in professional sports - I remember watching Pistons games where less than half the arena was filled, but when they started winning the sellout streak took off. Heck, the Celtics were one of the worst teams in terms of attendance until they nabbed Allen and Garnett.
I do think people expected the record to be better at this point in the season, but I also think that was due to the misguided notion that the team's defense would not be absolutely horrible. While I do think that RR bears some burden for switching DCs after a year, the fact that two walk-ons have passed starters from Carr's recruiting classes shows just how bad the next few years would have been had Carr stuck around.
I second what Yostal and others wrote about passion and college football, but I don't condone allowing that passion to overrun rationality and decency.
I also find it rather annoying that rational discontent is often quashed around here. Often I get the feeling that people who write "Coach Rodriguez is not doing well because of X, Y and Z" are lumped into the same category as those who write "OMFG, RR is terrible and needs to be fired!!!" and are subsequently berated.
This and other blogs/message boards are fan outlets for fans to express themselves; sometimes folks get out of hand and need to keep quiet. Players and parents need to realize that message boards often turn into a cathartic melee after bad losses and don't reflect how their son will be treated at any given institution.
By this theory and judgin by recent recruiting classes, it appears that more defensive payers are readiing Scout than offensive ones.