The Roh DE/LB experiment needs to be shelved

They've used a 4-man front quite a bit, actually.

I bet your hair care product knowledge would surprise.

We need to use a 4 man front. Go with a D-line of Roh,Will,Martin, and RVB. If we stick with the 3 man front we are going to get killed in the B10 agaisnt the run.

Good point.  Herron's injury (and lack of depth) has forced GERG's hand in how to use Roh the last couple games.

Now, the defensive scheme just needs to read up on what is commonly called "a blitz" and try one of those things out this week.  If Ezeh runs around in circles in pass coverage anyway, why not teach him to run real straight, real fast, and hit the QB real hard.

With Herron back look for DeathRoh to make more of an impact, and also for Chappell to be running around like his hair is on fire.  Can't wait for Saturday so everyone can shut up about with the "they were 4-0 last year too" bull.

will probably take all the snaps (and then some) that Kevin Leach has been getting the last two weeks.

Specifically O-state last year, the D looked ok to even good.  I am not as concerned with the scheme as I am the talent on the field and the depth to sub in and out.  Look at all the ways our offense can attack these days.  GERG needs time.

The 3-3-5 (as has been covered here extensively) allows a flexibility to drop 8 or to stuff the box. Also, Campbell isn't ready for the pass rush.

The way it is typically run, it is more of a 3-5-3. Just because the personnel is defined by the 3-3-5 doesn't mean that we can't run out of a different formation. For example, if they come out with to TEs and a FB, you bring the Spur and Bandit in on the edges and Mouton puts his hand down. That gives us a 4-4. The formation gives you the personnel on the field to easily run out of the 3-3-5 stack, 4-3, 3-4, 4-2-5. If you sub in another corner for a LB, 3-2-6, 4-1-6. If you take out the Spur for a DT, you can run a 5-2.

Former prized 5 star

Former is the key word here. He hasn't shown any reason to put him on the field or else the coaches would.

"Running a 3-3-5 stack defense in the Big 10 just doesn't make sense to me when you have teams like Iowa, Penn State, and Wisconsin looking to run it down your throat."

Why do you think that?  It's actually difficult to run on a 3-3-5 (assuming you have competent players at every position).

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On the subject of cliches (i.e., "run it down your throat"), do those schools also have defenses that want to HIT YOU IN THE MOUTH?

'Taint the Xs and the Os, 'tis the Jimmies and the Joes.

 

maybe he is sacrificed to cover up the deficiencies of the overall unit.

 

I think you're correct here. However, I think he'll stay on the line more against B10 opponents.

 

I think this combined with the return of Herron will see Roh play more as a DE

And I'd say that if all the DT opposite Martin needs to do is hold up against the run, then Campbell shouldn't be too far off.

First couple games, and we got crap for pressure.  The thing about DE's in a 3 man line is you want guys that are about Van Bergen's size (or heavier actually, but RVB is good for college ball) but with great explosion, quickness, and long arms.  They need to be able to power through double teams, but also have the explosion to beat a single blocker in the limited opportunities they get.  Roh is explosive, but not big enough.  When he gets double teamed on the pass rush, he gets crushed.  RVB is powerful enough, but really doesn't have the explosion.  Roh is best utilized in a 4 man line where he can line up outside shade of the tackle, get an angle upfield and beat the single block of the tackle.  RVB is powerful enough to get past the double teams he'll see playing the strongside.

That's what we ran against ND until Herron got hurt. Roh replaced Banks and Herron took Roh's LB spot. According to Brian's UFR, we lined up in the stack literally every play, with Roh lining up off the tackle's shoulder, ie, not head up like RVB. I think the ND game was about seeking to give players as much experience in the base as possible.

I can see that working against spread passing teams, against the beef machines of MSU, Iowa, and Wisconsin, it's asking a lot of Roh, even with his increased size, to hold up to double teams (likely a tackle and a lead blocker) for the entire game.  If you want Banks/Sagasse in for their size against those teams, though, what happens to Roh? I think the OP's concern about yo-yoing him depending on the opponent is a valid one.

...that the majority of critical posts consist of bitching, and are poorly thought out. The OP in this case did a good enough job of explaining where even the people who disagree can respect his opinion.

I would absolutely disagree.  While Roh has good athleticism for his size, the key term is "for his size."  His hips are fairly stiff in coverage.  He has great speed for a DE, probably average at best for a LB.

I'd also disagree that he's undersized.  Yes, he's a little light (I'd agree that he's definately lighter than I'd like to see my DE's, but there's enough successful, disruptive light DE's out there in a 4 man line that I think he'd be fine.  He might struggle a bit against the run, but I'd give up some in the run game to get an, IMO, vastly improved pass rush), but a guy like Aaron Maybin of Penn State had 12 sacks and 20 TFL's at 235 pounds.  O'Brien Schofield was 248 pounds when went ahead and got 12 sacks and 24.5 TFL's.  That's just two recent examples.  There are many, many others  Leverage plays a huge part, which actually leads to my next point.

I want people to watch Roh this week when he's at DE and when he's at LB.  When he's at DE, he's what scout's call a "flatback."  He's incredibly low in his stance.  When he comes out he stays basically in the same stance, getting very low with great leverage.  He gets his hands out and keeps guys away from his body, and has a great initial punch.  He shows a variety of pass rush moves.

When he's at LB, he gets very high.  He goes into blockers almost straight up.  He lets guys into his body and almost seems to forget his hands until he's already engaged and the blocker is into his body (this is especially evident last year against ND on the Armando Allen hold run at the end of the game, but throughout the season this was a problem).  He loses leverage regularly.  When he rushes, it's almost always a straight speed rush.

The difference between Roh as a DE and Roh as a LB are night and day.  He has flashed the potential to be a fantastic DE.  As a LB, I don't think he's going to be much more than an average to slightly above average player.