he's going to MSU.
per Rivals: Lawrence Marshall could be making a decision soon.
Hoke can't get kids from there like Mork D can.
Which is fine, McDowell, Hand and Mone would still make an amazing class. Hell, Brown could come along and join as well and I wouldn't complain.
His going to Staee doesn't bother me...I want them to get a few recruits here and there so their hopes are supported, if just for a little bit, and so that the crash of their world can be heard across the recruiting universe when the lose to Michigan in the fall.
Dennis Finley may have gotten a late offer. Can't think of anyone else.
Madaris as well from a couple years back.
Shane Jones, Lawrence Thomas, Kurtis Drummond, Skyler Schofner, Marcus Rush, William Gholston, Mylan Hicks...
He said last 3 recruiting classes (2011-2013), not last billion years.
You're right. I went back to 2010. Please forgive me for my sins.
feels like a billion years ago
...and the fall of 2008 felt like a billion years on it's own.
plus 2010 was a 100% Rich Rod class. MSU has been owned by Hoke on the recruiting trail since almost the second he stepped foot on campus, and 2010 isn't really relevant to what's happening now.
In all fairness though, some of these kids fall into the "had an offer but not really a spot" category. Not to sound too much like 11warriors, but some kids get offers but aren't top priorities and then the top priorities commit and that kid doesn't have a spot.
Gholston and Thomas are legit. Jones, Rush and Drummond are probably in the category described above, and guys like Schofner and Hicks got M offers before our recruiting train was really rolling.
I think fans often mess up the "Did he have a ___ offer?" thing.
Take Shane Jones, for example. If Jones had accepted his offer when it was initially made, he obviously would have had a place in the class. The Michigan coaches therefore thought very highly of him, at least at one point. When his spot was taken (by Gedeon?), Jones no longer had a spot, and he wasn't considered for one of the "best player available" spots.
So what does this mean with respect to shit-talking with MSU fans?
- No, Jones didn't "choose MSU over Michigan." When both schools were options, he hadn't made a chioce. When he chose MSU, Michigan wasn't available to him.
- Yes, the Michigan coaches believe that he's a Michigan-caliber prospect.
My sense with Marshall is that he's both a Michigan-caliber prospect and one who might choose MSU over Michigan while both are options. If that happens, congrats to MSU for winning that battle.
I'd say if you have to do that much explaining you're not helping your argument, even if it might be true. It does sound very 11Warriors.
Lawrence Thomas is a Bust with a capital B. He is now MSU's backup fullback. He looked like a real talent and probably would have come here if not for the RR situation, but let's not pretend like he's anywhere near the 5* talent he seemed in high school.
" He is now MSU's backup fullback."
No... No he isn't.
Tenative starting DT might not be a whole lot better...for both Thomas and the interior DL as a whole. But who knows; maybe he'll be amazing. Just that a move like heir-apparent MLB (although I think most people looked at him in high school and said DE all the way) to DT doesn't usually mean great things are ahead.
and then switch positions (in the weightier direction) in college typically aren't doing it because they're awesome and gained a ton of muscle. Thomas is probably going to be a BWC type bust. He might be a contributor, but it doesn't look like he's ever going to live up to the lofty expectation he had coming in
Lawrence? What, of Arabia?
From the front page:
UPDATE: Sam Webb talked to Peppers' coach($), who says that a Stanford visit will occur before any decision is made.
I wonder if the ESPN news came after Sam Webb speaking to his coach.
I don't know why someone marked your post as flamebait.
Anyways, it is hard to tell exactly the timeline. It seems like Sam Webb's tweets and that post from TomVH on the Wolverine Nation forum were both made about 3 hours ago.
I'd say if the updates come that close together it's a virtual certainty the story isn't clear yet.
Didn't see anything about this. Can you provide a link please?
Any link would more than likely include a direct statement saying that any information discussed should be kept in house and not spread amongst other forums.
Not saying that anything was guaranteed, but I will confirm nor deny that somebody possibly said something about visits and the likelihood of them happening or not happening.
It's all good news.
As long as they are marked as such ($) and not too much content behind the link is copy/pasted publicly here. Guidelines are here: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/meta-premium-information-policy
Like many others, I signed up for ESPN when TomVH started there, so I checked the nation site but came up empty. Appreciate the ($) link if someone has it.
You must not have read the second part of the post where he said "This all MUST stay here, too. That HAS to stay here. "
I fully understand the paid scouting services wanting to protect insider information, but what are they going to do if someone anonymously blabs the details? It's not like they can stop providing these tidbits, it's the reason people buy a subscription.
All they can really do is ask nicely, because any threat is worthless.
Why do you pay to read Tom's info? Why don't you post on there and defend yourself over there?
Don't act like a dick.
This is why we can't have nice things. Thanks for ruining all of the inside info in the future for the rest of us....
But if TVH specifically asks people NOT to post a piece of info onto another site (which is exactly what happened in this case), how hard is it to respect the guy's request? Obviously the whole situation is still very fluid and there are no guarantees, but it's still nice to get some good tidbits throughout the process that you can't access on most other sites. If the tradeoff for getting that information is abstaining from running to other sites to share the news, I don't think that's asking for too much.
The guy just had a baby 12 hours ago and is still on top of all this stuff, fergodsakes. Cut him a little slack!
so clearly we're both WN subscribers... My point is would you rather have TomVH sit on the information because people like you are going to leak it on other sites or have them post it on WN telling people not to post it elsewhere.
It's nice when we get the inside information but until you stop posting this shit on here, we might not get it in the future.
Do you really not want any inside information ever again? That can be arranged you know...
but I don't think you understand how that business works. ESPN, Scout, etc aren't going to stop making inside information available to their paying customers. Sitting on stories just means they get scooped by the competing services and lose business. They are not sharing secrets with you. Their sources aren't going to stop talking to them if the info spreads beyond WN or some other paid forum. Granted, they don't like getting that info leaked, but they understand that it happens and that it's been going on from the beginning. They may restrict the accounts of people caught leaking "private" info, but there is really nothing more they would do.
TVH couldn't have been more clear. He specifically asked his readers not to blurt the message all over town. And not 2 hours later, here it is on MGoBlog. Forget how the business works for a second and just apply some basic common sense.
If someone gives you some information in a relatively limited setting and asks you to keep it confidential for some period of time, why is this such an unreasonable request? I get that WN can't really do much to its subscribers to stop this from happening, it's really more of a self-policing thing and just some basic respect for another individual's request.
It's not like TVH asked us to stash 20 kilos in our garage or lie to the cops for him. All the guy asked was for a handful of people to not leak a tidbit about a recruit. Clearly for some people, that was too much to ask for.
It's called "hot news" and it isn't going away. They have paid sites so people can see it there first. When it has leaked out, it's not hot anymore and not worth paying for. That does not mean the paid sites lost; they still got the benefit of breaking the story first. That's how hot news has worked since there even was such a thing as news.
Particularly when it's something someone else told you, and it's their information you're selling. All you can do is report it first. Which had some value back in the newspaper days, but in a twitter era really doesn't do much.
I mean, if people want to pay to be told "first" that's their choice...but the guy providing the info can charge for asking the question, but can't get mad when it leaks out when the person telling him could just as well tell somebody else. They not giving a cut of the money to the people who are actually creating the news, the recruits.
yeah I'm not seeing the information in that tweet. You can put 2 and 2 together to realize who he is talking about but nothing else.
Rager said something about a visit not happening. Looking at the tweet alone doesn't say anything about Peppers or a visit. That only appeared in the forum.
Hey Rager, why dont you fuck off with info from Tom that he explicitly asked to stay private? Especially when he stressed that information not to be shared with the whole god damn world
Did the details/story of his one day commitment to OSU ever come out? Perhaps I just missed them.
But it is thought that basically Urban pressured him into committing, and then he realized that he was not as sure of OSU as Urban wanted him to be
Lawrence Marshall has asked Sam Webb to come on live this Friday to announce his trimmed down list. So unless he's trolling really hard, maybe he's trimmed it all the way down to one...Michigan. Either way seems like this will play out quickly. Been an interesting few weeks for recruiting.
There is no possible way it could be Michigan. It would make no sense to take this kid's commitment at this point.
that he doesn't have a commitable offer? BOOM! #UFM'd!
Staee all the way. He's been up there like 8 times since decomitting from Urban.
With us being in on McDowell and Hand, not as worried. Good luck to the kid, glad he isn't going to Columbus. Michigan will survive.
I realize you can't get them all, but Marshall and Webb do sting a little. If there was ever a year i would pick to 'wrap up the state', this would be it, because this is probably the most talented year in-state that i can ever remember. I started following recruiting in year 2000.
I would have been estatic if both would have picked us.
Honestly? This is one of the least talented in-state classes I can remember. The top 3 are strong, but there is very little quantity of top recruits.
My thoughts exactly
Depends how you measure 'talent.' You're right though that the top-3 are all very high, nationally elite recruits (Harris, McDowell, Webb). After that you've got some good players like Marshall and Drake, and then it's more of generic three starts. Compare that to 2011 when there wasn't really a top-50 in the nation type player, but there were 10 recruits that both UM and MSU offered before May; very deep year. Sparty called the 2011 'one of the least talented' in they could remember probably because they didn't get many of those 10 offers. But I thought it was a very talented year because of the depth. I also think this is a very talented year because I'm not sure when we'll see that much solid talent again at the very high end. Let's not be Sparty here.
I don't think that Marshall hurts too much, but Webb definitely does. He is a layer at a pretty big position of need. We are loaded with great DE prospects, but big time playmakers at CB and WR are lacking. Plus, I don't want any future Cass Tech prospects to have teammates at OSU.
Michigan already has 8 scholarship corners in 2014, I'd take Peppers or Westphal all day over Webb.
But Webb vs. Westphal is more of a toss-up.
Yeah, but so what if you get one of them and then the #1 CB in the country as well? Let Webb go elsewhere.
I like Westphal's size and looks to be a more physical tackler, so many options with a guy like that
I think I remember Sam Webb saying that he thinks Westphal could be a solid nickel corner
Probably depends on what you want. Westphal is more a developmental corner, but if he can grow into his still growing frame, he could be truely elite. Webb is far more refined and more near his ceiling, but it is a very high ceiling as well. He's crazy athletic already. I would rather have Webb because he goes to a UM pipeline and will now be playing against us every year. But I would be more that happy with Wesphal as well. This, of course, is contingent on us getting Peppers. If we don't, then losing Webb hurts a lot.
Hate to be that guy, but I would take Damon Webb over parkker westphal
That is fine everyone has their own opinions, I'm still waiting on a Cass Tech CB to live up to his ratings
that Damon Webb becomes an All-American and thus the first Cass Tech CB to exceed his recruiting expectations, just because he didn't come here. Not saying it's because of anything we've done, that just feels like something that would happen
I'd take them both, and move Webb to WR
We have numbers, but not elite quality. At least not demonstrated quality, outside of Countess. We need elite quality if we want to stay on the field against some of the elite WRs that we will face on OSu and in our bowl games.
Obviously, Jabrill Peppers would make the pain go away some, but I'd love to have both Webb and Peppers.
Feels like an MSU lock at this point. One never knows, I guess, but he's been an MSU fav for some time.
This most likely has a lot to do with what Sam said this morning. Lawrence has been asking to get on Sams show and Sam told him he had to have something to say. Lawrence said he wants to announce his final 3 or 5 (cant remember which one it is) this Friday on the air during The Michigan Insider on WTKA.
If he is going to MSU I think its a bit weird he wants to go on Sams show so bad.
well, he would be a good pickup, but you can't win them all.
He's all MSU. Can't win them all. At times we benefit from it too in the state of Ohio, but sometimes kids just want to be different, or really like a school that's not the powerhouse everyone 'pegged' a big prospect to go to. Good luck to him, he's a good prospect.
Agreed. He would be a nice player to have but if Michigan feels they can get both Hand and McDowell, then they may not even have enough room for Marshall (I would assume the two former are the higher priorities).
4-star in-state DE = we want him. period.
Let's not act like we're above missing out on a great in-state player.
A couple of the posts in this thread sound like Sparties in their "well, we didn't need him anyway." Stop doing that, not only is it obnoxious, but if he truly is on the fence and not yet decided, I don't want him to think you jack-asses hold the opinions of all UM fans.
His greatness is somewhat in question. I'm not in love with him, and neither are a lot of the recruiting sites. And that was decided before he ever committed to Ohio State and had a chance to get on our bad side.
I agree. He's a good in-state prospect, at a position where we've taken guys approximately as good as him the last couple years and where we're in on actual great players.
No one has said "we don't want him anyway" but saying that he's not exactly a can't miss prospect isn't untrue either.
"but saying that he's not exactly a can't miss prospect isn't untrue either."
That took me a second.
Magnus is a thousand percent correct on this, his highlight film consists of plays were he was completely unblocked
So he would fit in Tom Gholston's role at MSU pretty well, then.
I think he will be a better pass rusher then Gholston
Stop saying that or else Eleven Warriors is going to start rumors that Urban pulled his scholarship and THAT'S why he decommitted.
are McDowell, Hand and Marshall who do you want?
Is it as important getting the 4-star instate if we lose the possibility of the 5-star instate and are 50-50 on the top DE in the country?
Are we guaranteed to get McDowell and Hand? No. But we don't have a lot of spots this year, and we already have 8 commits. And we have limited spots now; we aren't going to be taking 3 DEs, even if McDowell outgrows the position.
Harris, McDowell, and Webb are the consensus top players in the state. If Harris stuck out with State, that would be horrible. Losing Webb to OSU is horrible, but mitigated by the possibility of both Peppers and Westphal.
Marshall, though, isn't as big a need given:
a) Our current depth chart
b) Who we may have coming in later this year
It isn't a hur dur dur noncomittable offer, we recruit nationally crap. It's a "it's not as vital a need, and hell he already committed to our biggest rival so what made you think he was coming to Michigan anyway and oh by the way, the top in-state DE and the top national DE may want to play for us" thing
Why in the world is anyone concerned about losing any commit with the recruiting that this staff is engaging in? You have to have a million other worthwhile issues to concern yourself with rather than whether the (at best) #3 option at a position is going to commit to Michigan 9 months before signing Day.
Look at all of the players that Michigan has signed the past 14 months and go back to watching the 1997 highlight reel on Youtube.
Exactly, plus I feel like everyone but UM & OSU needs to recruit better or this conference will stay behind the Sec
Not that this point isn't discussed on this board, but it is always something to keep in mind (or at least cognizant of). While we don't want other B1G teams better recruiting to be to the detriment of Michigan's (somewhat impossible, I know), it is obviously better for the entire league standard to be raised. Better competition will only help the entire conference (and outiiders perception of it) as a whole.
Well best of luck to him in wherever he goes. If he goes to MSU, he'll continue Dantonio's reputation of fielding strong defenses. But a Lawrence Marshall commit to MSU won't even remotely help the tire fire that is the MSU offense.
Well, if he doesn't pan out at WDE he can play TE and be intimately involved in that tire fire when on every 3rd and 8 he gets the reception after running a 6-yard-out.
Not sure why everyone is saying he'll be a Staee lock as Sam Webb advised that he would be on WTKA on Friday to narrow down his list.
all i got to say is I ATE THE BONES
They all have way more in-state talent.
is this guy serious?
I don't think Marshall's commitment would have as much of an effect on our pursuit of Hand & McDowell as people seem to think. He's a classic WDE while Hand is a SDE and McDowell is a SDE that could also play DT.
Hey, either school he chooses is fine by me. Would rather see him at MSU than OSU and obviously if he picks Michigan I will be excited.
This is interesting, if such a MSU lean why announce with Sam?
If Coach Hoke talked Marshall out of his commitment to OSU, does Marshall's commitment to the Spartans make Hoke MSU's best recruiter?
Given his track record, Mark D. should refuse Marshall's commitment: he doesn't need any help or advice from the UofM coaching staff.