MGoBlog FTW. Hands down the most intelligent sports blog I have ever come across. It's not like Brian is the only opinion here; plenty of people 'round these parts are giving Hoke the love.
Rivals forum post on MGoBlog/Brian
Come and get it biatches. Mgoblog > Mgoboard >> Rivals
The new, new math.
I also feel our top commentators are on par with anything ESPN is churning out these days.
Definitely. Although to be fair, all it requires is some originality and not relying on internet meme's and rumor.
ESPN is terrible. They will say anything to get ratings. I get all my M news from my fellow MGoBlog brothers/sisters.
Not everyone agrees with Brian anyway, although most of us respect his opinion and what he has done for the M community at large.
mgoblog > haloscan > mgodiaries > mgoboard > a pile of shit > Rivals
References to the Haloscan days! Most around these parts were never witness to the great handle-Jack war that started many of the MIchigan related blogs since.
Woow, I have lost more points then the Dow-Jones since my last comment.
I think your points might be expiring. Brian had a META post about it last week.
/Shoutout to the old timers
Bring back the negs that count and most of the noise here will be gone.
Who cares what those neckbeards think? They're just bitter that they're giving Rivals $100/year for the same shit that is available here for free.
That attempting to read David Foster Wallace would make their brain trickle slowly from their nose.
that people can reference Wallace and most know who he is or have read him. So I agree. HOWEVA, at the same time a post like this as a comparative is ripe for satire in itself.
To be fair DFW sometimes makes my brain trickle from my nose too.
Too much of your diaries makes me trickle from the nose sometimes.
That's by design -- AdTracker can't tell the difference between someone spending a ridiculously long time on a page and a guy passed out on his keyboard.
Kinda says it all, no?
Rivals doesn't like us? Whatever shall we do?
with both of you. Just funny considering the loyalty they pay to balas and helmholdt. I think there is less of a undying allegiance to the moderators here. Smart kids over there
Or does he just do the print stuff?
Honestly it was only a week or two that he was really bad/emotional and negative about it. I think in the past weeks hes been more than fair and objective about how things have been going.
Also, I agree with other sentiments that while Brian is the king of the blog, there are plenty of other opinions being openly shared.
Brian (and I) is that his criticism was about the process, not Hoke himself - he hated that our supposedly national coaching search consisted of basically considering Harbaugh, Miles and Hoke.
I was pissed off about that too. The idea that the whole michigan man thing had more to do with having spent time in ann arbor rather than character/coaching ability itself frustrated Brian.
Had Hoke been hired after DB interviewed all the bright coaching candidates who would have loved to coach here and had the character to me a michigan man, I'm sure he wouldn't have had a problem with it.
Also, very few could have foreseen the Mattison hiring.
I'll get off his balls now, but in short I think he's been fair and objective the whole time.
you had no patience...
The criticism of the process was overblown because fans acted like they had a right to know about everything publicly...Well that and lots of folks like to bitch and whine.
And it is not surprising that some Rivals or Scout posters whine about other sites...but much like not everyone agrees on everything here, it is pretty certain that there are many a differing opinion there.
Bottom line, Go Blue!
Re-read his comment. That is not what he is saying.
That's not what he's saying.
The only post I have in mind is the "We are ND" video that he posted directly after it happened. I just didn't think that was necessary. But looking back, you're correct he was more upset with the process than the hire. So in summary, I don't disagree with you. I wasn't trying to bag on Brian, more just pointing out that the rivals article posted above is way off.
Freekbass as a knee-jerk reaction to Hoke was a little over-the-top, even for Brian.
It was prescient.
Brain said in December there was a zero point zero chance hoke would be coach, and referenced his joke post from 2007 where he compared hoke with dead people.
His criticism went far beyond the process, it included the person as well. It was every bit as unfair as whatever unfounded criticism was received by rr.
Hold on a second. Hoke has gotten a better shake here so far than RR did in a lot of places. I'm not defending some of the things Brian said (or the banner immediately after Hoke was hired) but Brian is back to being reasonable; something that wouldn't suggest irrational hate for Hoke.
You may be right, but to me, neither saying with obviously incorrect (in hindsight) overconfidence that Hoke wouldn't be hired nor referencing a joke post (if it's a joke, it's not serious, right?) is necessarily a criticism of Hoke, is it?
I guess it's a fine line. If I criticize a process that brings a sub-.500 coach to one of the two most storied programs in college football, is that a criticism of the hire or the process?
In practice it was both and there's nothing wrong with that. When your team doesn't land a blue chip All-American recruit you still support the guy who comes in his place.
RR's was not. One coach came in with many wins, BCS games and all that. The other comes in with a .485 winning percentage.
Of course, winning cures all. Hoke lacks credentials, unless you count 'getting it.'
Fair point. But, with our tradition, perceived 'getting it' is an important factor. Especially at the top sport in our program. Did RR get it. Absolutely, but it's football, every thing is picked apart. Look at Coach Hutchins, I dare someone to say she doesn't get it and she is an MSU alum.
I was annoyed about the process, but now when I look at things, I can't blame DB. Look at who he has to cater to.
Well, when you say it like that...
The truth is, Rich Rod's resume might be viewed as suspicious as well, especially when you considered the transition to the spread offense. Rich Rod had a good record, but to be accurate...as a head coach, he did well in the Big East. To my mind that doesn't grant for half the reputation for dominance some people ascribe to him. The Big East...they're just not that good! And I say this from a position within the Big East.
Hoke? Hoke has a reputation for turning junker programs around. What that means for the future, I have no notion.
Brian Kelly, Bobby Petrino, RR, Bobby Bowden...all of these guys came out of the Big East and were hired into big time enviroments. That 3/4 of them seem to be doing extremely well (or already have, in Bowden's case) would mean that the Big East is a good recruiting ground for coaches.
Bobby Bowden never spent a single second of his career coaching in the Big East.
I'll add as well that the jury is very much out as to how Brian Kelly will perform at the next level. Notre Dame always has the advantage of being able to pull in excellent recruits (for whatever reason), and the program was so far down nobody was going to fight a new hire. But whether he can turn the Irish back into a dominant program is a matter of claim at this point.
OCTOBER 25, 2010
That Big East Coach May Not Be Your Mr. Fix-It
Perhaps former Big East coaches, like financial products, should come with a disclaimer: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
It's far too early to give up on Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly, of course. But the Fighting Irish's decisive loss to Navy on Saturday is the latest reminder that Big East coaches—no matter how brilliant they looked in that conference—are by no means a sure thing.
The Big East's current membership has had six permanent head coaches go on to lead other college or NFL teams since 1991, when the conference began play in football. Of those, only Mark Dantonio (who previously was at Cincinnati) has had much success. Mr. Dantonio is 30-17 at Michigan State, including an 8-0 record and No. 5 Associated Press ranking this season. And former Rutgers coach Doug Graber won the 2003 NFL Europe title.
Otherwise, it's mostly been ugly at the coaches' next college job. Former Pittsburgh coach Paul Hackett lasted three years at Southern California. Walt Harris, another former coach of the Panthers, got just two at Stanford, going 6-17. Rich Rodriguez, formerly of West Virginia, is 13-18 through 2½ seasons at Michigan. Ex-Louisville coach Bobby Petrino went 3-10 with the Atlanta Falcons before bolting for Arkansas. Although the Razorbacks are ranked 19th in the AP poll, he's 7-13 in Southeastern Conference games.
While at Cincinnati, Mr. Kelly won 10 games in his first season and the conference title in his second. But after Saturday's 35-17 loss to Navy, the Irish are 4-4, after a 6-6 record last season. Maybe those cautious hopes for a quick turnaround in South Bend were unrealistic.
He coached a Big East team though. What exactly is the difference when you're looking at coaches? The school is indicitave of the conference.
My point is that success at a lower level of competition may or may not translate to success at a higher level. My point, specifically, is that the quality of Rich Rod's resume has been greatly overstated. He was dominant for a very brief time at a weaker level.
The only point I'm trying to make is that the assertion that criticism of Hoke is any more justified that criticism of Rich Rod based on the "clear" disparity of their resumes is itself unjustififed. Any coaches past must be considered with a greater degree of particularity. For example, people cite Hoke's losing record. Well...you try getting a winning record at Ball State. I'd like to see Zombie-Bo try to get a winning record at Ball State. The fact that Hoke ever turned Ball State around might be seen as a greater accomplishment than getting WV to a BCS berth through a conference which should NOT be an AQ. It's all apples and oranges, really.
It might be a chicken and egg thing, but high quality schools pretty routinely oach from the Big East. It's possible that these resumes are inflated but there ate success stories from smaller schools, obviously.
This really isn't the point. You may well find a game winning coach reaching down, most people have choice but to try. There isn't a lot of lateral movemant amongst coaches these days, unless it's a dirty coach trying to stay one step ahead of the hammer (cough*Saban*cough).
I'm speaking specifically to the belief that a winning resume below is an incontestable harbinger of future success: to whit, the belief that Rich Rod's resume was that of a gridiron Ghengis Khan, and Hopke's resume makes it acceptable to deride him.
Then I guess the disagreement was never there in the first place and I misunderstood you. I will add that while I don't think RR had a perfect resume, there are some concerns with Hoke's as well. If he had stayed long enough to move SDSU to the top of the MWC (like RR did with WVU) I think they would be more comperable. It's more Hoke's shorter term as a HC to me than what he's done with his resume.
Accurate. I think what you want when you reach down is someone who has shown an ability to win consistently, and the hope that will translate (think Bo). Hoke's resume is very questionable. I think he has sort of proven he can take lesser programs and do something with them, but who knows what that will mean in the long run, as every time he's had a winning season he's moved up.
These are legitimate questions. But people had legitimate questions about Rich Rod. I had them about Rich Rod, and I have them about Hokje. I suppose I would just encourage people to grapple with them personally and not in public. I think the only metric we, as fans, have is the success they have, on the field, for us. So I guess, here's hoping...
What turnaround? He inherited a .500 team; his first four years he was sub-.500. His fifth year he was half a game above .500. In his sixth year, he had an abmorally good year, but couldn't finish it, losing as a ranked team to an unranked Buffalo, with Hoke then leaving before a beating a bowl game. And the foundation he built? Did they remain near the top of the MAC after he left? If I roll a pair of dice 6 times and get an 11 once, I'm going to quit and start telling people that I turned the dice around.
He may succeed greatly at Michigan, and we might all love him in the end, but his resume is his resume. I remember a month or two before we hired him, I was told the same thing by my fanatical sports lover brother -- there's no way Michigan would hire Hoke. He went to a MAC school; I went to Michigan. He didn't understand that we would put bloodlines above all else.
Yes. you're analogy comparing coaching a team to a winning season and rolling dice is perfect. I cannot improve upon it. It is nothing more than an exercise in probability. The fact that he was a running a program in a bottom feeder school of a bottom feeder conference with no funding, no support and no access to meaningful recruiting could, in no way, affect that probability.
Also, his record there is in no way comprable to that of Harbaugh's, who also led his team, a much better supported, financed and positioned team, to a similar level of success for exactly one year before being hailed a caesar and moving on.
And there is no way a reputable coach could ever lose to an unranked team. So it goes without saying that a reputable coach, with a history of success, and a national championship to his name, at the winningest program in history, could lose to an unranked school. Especially an FCS school. That could never happen.
No, the Big East is a springboard for coaches moving up. That's why the Big East can't keep an even modestly talented coach. Rich Rod was a WV alum and bolted, Edsall gave birth to UConn football and slinked off laterally to Maryland after leading his team to the most ubdeserved BCS slot in the history of man.
The point is...getting a coach from the Big East may or may not mean anything. I wasn't against Rich Rod. I wanted him to succeed, right up until the Gator Bowl. The point I'm trying to make is that, just because you are successful in the Big East doesn't mean you will be the next Petrino, Bowden or Kelly. I admit the odds were against him, but based on his performance, I'm not sure he was the brilliant coach people thought he was. He did well in a weaker conference, and excelled in a brief window when he had Pat White and the other pieces he needed (including Miamai and Virginia Tech am-scrayed), and a DC who could put up with him. That's not the dominant resume some people claim it is.
I think Rich Rod has a high powered mind. I think he would be a fantastic OC anywhere. I think he would be a great head coach somewhere. But I don't think he would be a dominant head coach everywhere. As much as some things were against him, I think he proved that himself.
I wanted him to succeed, right up until the Gator Bowl.
Not trying to nitpick, but did I read this right?
Edit : My mistake. I re-read it again. Sorry
one hired the Baltimore Ravens DC and the other one ultimately hung his hat on GERG.
I think RR definitely has the better coaching resume, but once it emerged that our coaching staff was helmed by Hoke + Mattison most of the grumbling about the Hoke hire ceased instantaneously, Brian included.
Hoke's criticism is well deserved RR's was not. One coach came in with many wins, BCS games and all that. The other comes in with a .485 winning percentage.
Seems far too simplistic to me. As previous U-M coaches -- Moeller and Rodriguez -- have proven, prior head coaching records are not always the best harbinger of future successes or failures.
BUT HE DOESN'T WEAR RED1!!1!!111!!!
Going 15-22. Hoke's criticism is coming at 0-0.
Hang on a minute. I believe this is the post that you're referring to:
How is that post an unfair criticism of Hoke? It's not a personal attack; it's discussing his record and career. Sure, it is Brian's opinion, but it's not like he's attacking Hoke's character or personal life.
This is a classic example of the dichotomy in the Michigan fan base. Brian's supporters think that it's fair to make criticisms of Brandon's process and Hoke's record; others think that criticizing the career of Michigan's eventual coach is unfair.
So I don't want to go over it all again. But at the time, to say all his attacks were just on the process was false. I'll just mention the "donuts" repeated references. And yeah, fat jokes about your coach are about on the level of hillbilly jokes. Brian made being wrong personal. If he had just stuck to ripping the process (which we don't really know who Brandon tried talking to anyway), he wouldn't have gotten nearly as much grief, because even those who thought Hoke was a great hire can see the viewpoint that the process could be perceived as shakey, at best.
I'm not certain it's all in the past, either, is my problem. Based on the commentary of the spring game, it seems to me a lot of the bitterness is just being repressed. I refer to the continued ascertations that only the "Old Guard" could ever approve of this tranisition, or the shift back to pro-style.
Not that he doesn't have the right. This is his forum, after all. But when we air our dirty laundry in public, it's on display for all.
Yeah, well Rivals (specifically Chris Balas) said that Harbaugh would be the coach, then said Hoke, then said Miles, and then said Hoke again...
...and afterward, Chris Balas basked in the glory of predicting the Hoke hire correctly.
I disagree with some of the stuff Brian says, but at least he sticks to his guns.
So you're saying if I paid for their site I could read about how much they hate me? Makes perfect economical sense.
They are, without a doubt, the biggest homers out there. what's the point of reading their stuff? I read the Wolverine mag for years, and at some point all the articles were exactly the same thing. When Doug Karsh stopped writting the back page, I was out.
There is so much ignorance spread on [MGoBlog] that just gets encouraged by the [awful posters], especially with the poster [BlueDragon].
10,000 points punk. Get off my thread.
Call the office, they can help you. Here's my card...<general small-talk/corp schmoozing>
Let me know when you cash them in for Jessica Alba. Until then I'll keep shorting.
At present, 10010/3495=2.8641:1 advantage for the Dragon-Man. Don't make me pull a cat-picture combo move.
I remember when that ratio was worse. Wait until points are back in play; we'll see what happens then.
Right now you're coasting off of six weeks of no posting from me and posbanging from you.
(The girlfriend just said she was going to "neg me to Bolivian" once points are back up and she signs up...keeper?)
Right now you're coasting off of six weeks of no posting from me and posbanging from you.
Right now I could drop the "Haterz gonna hate" bomb on you, but I'm more creative than that. As long as I maintain an average rate of about 2000 points/month, my growth is sustainable. I might drop a few thousand in November-December 2011, but I can offset the losses as long as I maintain my current rate of posting.
For the moment, I have 10,000 points and you don't, so I get to "initiate" you until at least November 14, 2011. Now get down and give me 20.
As for the GF...she'll have a tough time getting above 100 points because I'm going to down-vote everything she posts. Mwahahaha.
Haha. Dropping the "haters gonna hate" tag on me would be funny, considering how much evidence there is to the contrary.
This is drunk justingoblue talking, but you know I'm not hating; far from it.
I love it when drunk justingoblue makes an appearance on the board. I have a feeling we've all been making a quick pit-stop at the bar before showing up to post a few times in the past few days. I too have gone to my intoxicated "happy place" and, as they say, let the good times roll.
I got a chem midterm on Wednesday and I'm dreading tomorrow because I have to start studying for it. I've already taken advantage of office hours and I'm still not sure about how to solve some of these problems. But I hope it'll be OK with three days to prep.
I will admit that I'm the bigger shit-talker between the two of us, but you gotta admit you sure do hate on me every once in a while :-) Anyways, c'mere you.
I'm still waiting.
What are your feelings on being forced to enter captchas in order to post, even though you have been released and are in good standing with positive points? The enhanced security is active until you get 100 points, and it almost discourages further posting after someone has to start over from Bolivian exile.
When I moved to Texas it was a nice way to keep up with people back home who liked the same teams, mostly. However, I came to realize that MgoBlog basically does the same thing they do for free, and being poor, it wasn't worth it anymore. I'm sure Rivals is great for teams that don't have a Brian.
If there's a group of people that, months later, still need to be complaining about how Brian covered Hoke's hiring, then at least they're doing it in the Fort where I won't see it.
Considering that the primary criticism of Brian was that he didn't get off the Rodriguez bandwagon fast enough, they seem to be pretty slow themselves to move on with their lives.
depress me. Sometimes just a little.
"I try and stay away from "The Fort" as the majority of posters there aren't that educated in their writing, but whatever."
Do they have a sixth grade education like this guy?
jethro and ellie mae taught them everything they know
The fort blows, for cereal. Dropped my sub from there months ago and the quality of my interwebs life has significantly improved. You can only read so many long winded, bogus posts from BlueMonster that say the same thing over and over again. The entire atmosphere on that board was incredibly negative and posters would spew a lot of venom. The info/content is way better here and on GBW.
tl;dr: The Fort sucks. Who cares what those jabronis think?
Do they have drinking threads? How about TomVH? Lloyd Brady Photoshop contests? Didn't think so. Fort...get the fuck off my Internet.
Of course they have drinking threads. Everywhere has drinking threads. I dislike all of them.
RIP "OT: Showering." May you live in infamy.
We're all Michigan fans. Why the vitriol?
I love how they think that the premium information is being "regurgitated" by Brian and Tim. If any premium information is being shared it is being done by the posters not the people who are running the site.
Funny how when they do it, it's "scooping" and "diligent reporting."
Besides, that's how the internet works. All relevant information that has been posted on any popular site finds its way to the rest of the world. I think "premium" services are lucky they get as many people to pay them as they do.
Besides, how much unique information do premium services really provide, anyway? Some hoard their scouting reports, but the information is all out there anyway. "Premium" services just don't want people to realize that they are paying for info they can get in places like mgoblog for free. They desperately want their subscribers to believe that they are getting something of value for their money.
If there is a lot of vitriol toward Brian by posters, I would imagine it is because they are trying so hard to convince themselves that they aren't wasting their money over there.
I used to pay for "premium" information until I figured out that everything that is posted on scout or rivals eventually (5 minutes later) ends up over here. Not only that but TomVH does a better job than anyone on scout or rivals.
$100 a year seems kind of silly now.
@ the forum drama....take it easy guys
GRAB YOUR DAMN HOCKEY STICK AND AIM FOR THEIR HEADS!!!!
Rivals can go blow me, Mgoblog has shown its worth in being referenced several times recently in the MSM.
I follow alot of blogs (sports, non sports alike) and by far the amount of quality work here is astounding. I would like to see other college football sports blogs that do the amount of statistical analysis the posters here do.
Agreed. The only blog I can think of with a smarter base than this is a completely esoteric site dedicated to a specific type of economics. Most posters are grad students/people with graduate degrees in econ; the topics, while important, do not have the appeal that getting lost in a football argument does.
Gotta love forgetting the real world and basing emotional happiness on strategies for fourth and one from the....?
Figures, those woosies at Rivals are hiding behind their paywall.
There are a lot of people like myself who frequent both. True most of the info ends up here anyway, but a lot of times you can stuff there that you don't get here, and vice versa. I like using both. There are more old guard types there, but there are a lot of good posters as well. Also most of the posts in that thread were by people defending Brian and saying that he tells it like it is and is a worthwhile read.
Most threads over there not in concert with belief of mods are deleted as soon as they get wind of them. I'm happy there was a defense of Brian though because he is, quite frankly, far better at what he does here than what they do there.
I was a long-time member and when a thread was started wondering about my wherebouts, the positive feedback from the majority of posters was justification enough for the mods to delete it immediately. The only reason I left was because I had an on-line argument with a psuedo mod named Anison. They aren't too rightheous over there. That much I know.
Yea I remember you Wolfman, you are still one of the more well liked posters over at the Fort. Obviously it has its flaws over there, and the bad element is more prominent than here, but there are still a lot of good people there too. Met quite a few friends in the real world through Fort tailgates. Good to see you over here though.
Messageboards for sites where people pay $100+ to be a member are going to feature the most hive-mindedness possible, so I'm not surprised that there will be people who'll take shots at competitors (esp. ones who are frankly better at their job than them) as a means to get some traffic going. MGoBlog has been delivering top-notch commentary for years, and Rivals is just annoyed that their business model is starting to fall apart as people realize "meh" scoops with crappy writing isn't going to cut it.
Illustrating the old adage about fools and their money.
Rivals was my previous home. I posted there from 2002 - 2007. The public board, though. Not the Fort.
I was 'Andy-go-blue,' whose main claim to fame was the "Flashback Friday" series. (This was before the days of YouTube). I see some other familiar screen names from my Rivals days around these parts now too so I'm not alone.
Very telling indeed that Mgoboard has attracted current or former Rivals posters. The posters here are second-to-none, man.
Hey Historian, did you ever get to the bottom of who U-M was playing in those 'Gold Country' clips? My guess is MInnesota. I believe they refer to themselves as 'Gold Country'.