I still want to see the third year with RR, but I am not sure he is the guy anymore. He now has to prove it to me. I am starting to doubt him for the first time.
Mod Edit: Rich Rod doesn't have to prove anything to you. PaulVB
prepare for 13902741928798 threads about this over the next week. I am at a loss for words today.
Perhaps those who get through the next week of the "fire Rod" and "the streets will flow with the blood of the Rod believers" posts can get the Fandom Endurance II merit badge. Perhaps an "I survived the mgolimitation" comes to mind.
but honestly, this is what we've done in 21 games under the richrod era...?
Have you forgotten the coaching search?
the panic? the airplane flight tracking? the sailboat incident?
and let's not even head into the Horror...
Board annoyance...no doubt; regrettably, we have lived meltdown about 50 times in the last few years (+/- 5 days for the Horror and 45 days of coaching search)
Perhaps this beer nearby will get me through...
I can't believe we didn't win the Big 10 with Threet and Sheridan last year. We have 89 underclassmen on the roster this year, but we still should be a top 5 team. Fire RR!! No tolerance for coaches who can't accomplish the simple task of changing systems and winning immediately. We need to keep hiring and firing coaches until we find one that can.
And I'm starting to doubt anyone who thought we could win 9 games with this young of an offense. Some of this is on RR, but the playcalling has been decent today IME. Execution has been awful, and the o-line has not protected Tate in any way. That's not on RR.
It's on RR to get these guys ready. Remember people holding Carr accountable for Appy St.? It's the same thing. Coach has to have them ready.
I haven't said one bad thing about RR on this board or elsewhere but I am perplexed and can offer no defense today.
I agree with you. If you performed like RR at your job for two years would you still have a job
Do people still think he is the guy? He had some good games early but those were against inferior opponents. I've never seen a QB fumble so many times. I can't see this team making any positives steps in the off-season either. They obviously can't make those steps during the season as we've all seen. This is awful.
Ok, I was wanting to see DRob really early in this game and I was disappointed in Tate's play. But let's remember that he's a true freshman and most of the players are underclassmen.
He can get better, as most of the team can.
Can we withhold judgement at least until next year?
First line of my original post. I still want to see a third year.
Yeah, I understand. I'm a little shaken, too.
Apologies if it seemed like I was attacking your original post. This is a very different situation that we find ourselves in as M fans. We're not used to being a bad team. Gotta admit, I don't like it. I guess I should be used to it, though, as a Cubs fan. ;]
We're 2/3rd's the way thru the season the team full of freshman and sophomores excuse is losing it’s thunder….this team in my opinion is a team of sophomores and juniors and needs to start playing like it.
The lack of talented upperclassmen at QB and on defense isn't RR's fault.
That the defensive recruiting has only gotten worse, and will continue to do so as 3-9 is followed with 5-7 or 6-6. The offense has regressed from the beginning of the year to now, and the defense is every bit as bad as last year. We're going to need to score 35 ppg to have a good record next year.
I am tired of hearing about the lack of talent. They have still finished in the top 20 in talent every year, they are not being coached well.
We have finished in the top 20 in recruiting, but you also have to retain those players you recruit. It's tough to develop someone who doesn't stay on your team, ya know?
For the first time, I don't think you'll see a fourth. Or that you necessarily should.
well its not all coaching its execution we can not get inside the 20 4 times and not score. we can not turn the ball over 4 times and win.
I hate to be that guy. I have always remained level headed after losses under RR with the understanding that it will take some time, but today is different. Today doubt has punched me in the face.
Well, punch right it back.
Get off the guys back! I haven't seen Rich Rod fumble the ball once today.
But don't you start to wonder whether, at some point, coaches might be responsible for what appears to be a systemic predilection for turnovers? (and not just from the freshmen QBs)
Are you kidding? Was Coach Carr the reason Hart never fumbled? B/c that was a systematic predilection for holding on to the ball. So it must have been coaching, right?
Which is important, and not just grammar nazism, because the former emphasizes the number of players who are doing this kind of shit. Sometimes you get one or two guys who never, ever fumble, or who have major fumbling problems. But there are a lot of people on the team who fumble for the second straight year. I'm not saying it's definitely Rod's fault, but there has to be some point where you question the coaching staff, right? If we are at the bottom of TO ratio next year too, are you just going to blame the players and the bloody-mindedness of the universe? This isn't the NFL - the coaches at the college level are still responsible for developing fundamentals.
I thought the same thing LAST YEAR. At some point kids not getting it done is on the head coach.
i have done nothing but support him from the start, but to lose to a team like illinois today in such embarrassing fashion makes me second guess everything i have supported.
i'm jumping the gun a little here, but i hope brian kelly is still at cincinnati in two years, because we should be giving him a good look if next year doesn't get way better than the way things are now.
I understand the frustration, I really do. I haven't dropped this many f-bombs in quite a while. Well, at least since last week's game. But what do we all expect after last year?! 3-9! And now we have a true frosh QB and a very young team.
Try to relax, people. It's difficult, I know. But give these kids more time. They deserve better.
EDIT: I'm not picking on you, necessarily. I'm just trying to make a point.
I'm not going to bail on RR yet, but the record will speak for itself.
there will be little room for error and excuses next year.
Could a preemptive firing be imminent, followed by a run for Kelly? He could use the spread pieces that Rod has acquired while signifying a break from the RichRod era. He would also have a good chance of keeping many of the offensive recruits. For the first time in two years, I honestly think this might happen. It may be time for Michigan to cut their losses. Personally, I say give him one more year, but then Kelly is gone.
it won’t happen; getting a 3rd coach in 4 years is up for debate on whether that's a good idea or not.
Just not. /that would be so self defeating and wrong. It might make you feel better but it would be dumb
I'll take the University of Chicago route (i.e. NO FOOTBALL) over the Auburn/hillbilly route. Yes, I know that football supports the whole AD and that it's an important part of fund raising, but let's not lower UM to SEC level.
I heard a comment by a local radio host that Brian Kelly burned his recruiting bridges in Michigan. Is there any truth to this?
I have been a Richrod supporter since day one, but after watching this disaster I'm really doubting the future. They didn't stomp on Illinois when they had a chance and there continual lack of adjustments is a grave disappointment. I didn't think we'd be on the national level this year, but now I don't think we will even be in a bowl game.
I know they ran the same basic play four times from the one, but they didn't adjust defensively either. I'm really trying not to let my emotions take over, but today's performance is unacceptable. Rodriguez has only one road win in two years!
If there was ever a time to go after Brian Kelly.....
Rich Rod should start calling the plays. I am WAY not impressed with our offense the way its been playing lately.
He has the final say on all offensive plays
I think maybe instead of being down about it for 24 hours, some of the people on this board just need to shut the fuck up for 24 hours before posting.
This team seems to be falling apart, yes, but DO NOT BE SPARTY!!
Seriously. Take a step back.
Reading on this board last year and this year I am so sick of "Fire Rod --- Nevermind." Just shut up.
Stop being like the fans in East Lansing who have parades for each new coach they get until they lose a few games. I understand we were 3-9 last year. I understand expectations got higher after a 4-0 start.
But I also understand that 75% of this team will be back next year. I also understand we lose like 5 or 6 starters total on offense and defense.
Fire Rod? Should we go back to the Power I? Switch everything again and go through more years of transition?
Shut the fuck up. Seriously, I understand this is frustrating. I'm pissed right now, but think about it. Do not be like Sparty.
This is why I stated I want to see next year. If things don't improve dramatically next year like all his other stops he should be looking for a job elsewhere.
But with 75% of the team having at least 2 years after this year, and only losing 5 or 6 starters next year, how can so many people still not have hope for the future under Rich Rod? Seriously.
Because of the way we are losing games. It's not that we are losing, it's how we are losing.
In OT to MSU
By 2 AT Iowa
I understand the Penn St game and this.
But people need to calm down a little.
So you are OK with the first three quarters at MSU and the turnovers at Iowa? Again, it's the way we are losing games.
The turnovers at Iowa are definitely RichRod's fault.
And if Tate makes one more (or, rather, DOESN'T make that last play in OT) play, we're in a position to win the MSU game.
I understand that we demand perfection, but he DOES have a very young team. If we are at this point next year then I might be saying, "Maybe he's not the guy." But I will bet penis AND testes that we are not in the same situation next year.
Maybe a 72 hour total moratorium is indicated until common sense and rational thought prevail.
We are all overly obsessive about the team (or else we wouldn't follow and post to the blog) and have expectations outside the "norm" of most fans (meaning we don't attend the games to enjoy a nice bottle of chablis with some emmental prior to the game). Most of us have likely scalped tickets at some point or traded a pair of seasons for better seasons. People who read the board and post to the board are the long suffering and passionate fans that the idiots in front of us are always yelling at to "quiet down". I like the mgoblog crowd and I like the dedication...
but dammit I hate the area 51 sensibilities...the consistent knee jerk responses. I think you have captured that frustration well.
Wow. This is terrible. Has Ron Zook outcoached RichRod twice now?
Regardless of what we all think of Rich as a coach, I think we can find common ground on the premise that HE NEEDS TO STOP WEARING A FUCKING FANNY PACK DURING GAMES. THAT'S A FANNY PACK. DO YOU HAVE EXTRA FILM FOR YOUR KODAK, SOME TRAVELER'S CHECKS, AND 16 OUNCES OF MIDDLE-AGED ENNUI IN THERE? NO? THEN TAKE THE DAMN THING OFF.
I think everything else will sort itself out from there.
We got Juiced again, not Zooked.
If we lose out, then I think RR should be fired at the end of the season. The biggest problem at the point will be that the players no longer believe in his system which is the same thing as the system not objectively working. Today is the biggest black mark on RR's record at M. It makes his spread philosophy look old and worn out. Personally, I'm not as committed to seeing a third year after this.
Agreed. If we lose out, and only if we lose out, it's time to cut bait.
Why is it his fault the players didn't execute in the redzone like they did from the 30-30?
Are all coach firing decisions assessed this fairly? It's a political position in a lot of ways, and two losing seasons probably can't be explained away. It's like being president during a recession--you policies may or may not have precipitated the drop, but you were there. And people are mad.
people make stupid and irrational decisions when they are angry...or drunk.
just wanted rich to go to the i form and run it with grady. I mean I thought he was our goal line back?
I at least think we beat a pretty bad Purdue team next week. If we lose to both Wisconsin and Ohio State, and lose badly, there should be serious consideration to a dramatic change in the trajectory of our program.
I'm sick of whining about "wait until he gets his own players" and the anti-Lloyd Carr mafia spreading all sorts of crap about Lloyd "leaving the cupboard bare" and "not being supportive." At the end of the day, this is Rich Rodriguez and his merry band of West Virginia ex-pats on the sidelines putting this team on the field week in and week out.
If they can't get the job done, if they can't win on the road in the Big 10 against one-win teams coached by perhaps one of the worst in-game coaches in the conference, the excuses have to stop and the questions have to start.
Ray Roundtree, David Moseman, talking about their fucking halloween costumes during that great run by Vincent Smith, they were just fucking horrible. Made watching a bad game worse, and I usually like Patrick.
they were calling him Mossman
like this guy:
I fully supported Rich Rod up until 2 weeks ago...but sooner or later even a blind man has to see the truth.
There have been too many mistakes in his error, both on and off the field. This team has never even remotely resembled a well-coached team in 21 games.
Sorry Rich...your error is coming to an end.
Rich Rod zip
I wouldnt mind if tate never sees the field in 2010. He's regressed beyond the point of "Freshman" mistakes.
You're an idiot.
this is what scares me
I can accept this year, provided we make it to a bowl game. That said, I will expect a high level of improvement next year, when there is no excuse for a lack of offense.
That said, I wouldn't be completely surprised if he was fired solely because we decided to jump the gun and hire Brian Kelly. That said, Kelly probably isn't going anywhere after this year, so doing so would probably be premature. I personally don't endorse this line of reasoning, but merely point out that it is a possibility, especially since Kelly seems to churn out good QBs and defenses, which were glaring flaws in today's game.
There is zero chance that an AD on the verge of retirement would make that move. RR is safe for now, barring some kind of stunning NCAA development.
When we hire a new AD, which could occur before the logical window for firing RichRod is over, it is possible that he will fire RichRod. I don't think it would happen, but it's always possible.
For instance, it is not inconceivable that a new AD with no reason to be predisposed to liking RichRod could takeover in time to see a 6-6 season (probable with a win over Purdue, followed by two losses), a bowl loss (possible, depending on the bid), and some minor NCAA violations coming out of the current investigation (possible). This new AD might then fire RichRod.
Bill Martin is not stepping down until September 2010. Until then, he is still the AD, regardless of when we hire the new guy. There is zero chance that Martin will make a coaching change in the final year of his tenure as AD, barring some kind of gigantic scandal. Ergo, RR is safe for the time being.
Did I fucking get redirected to the RCMB by mistake? People who are ready to bail on RR after this game are justifying every insult to "Walmart Wolverines" that any MSU fan has ever written. I'm as fucking pissed about this loss as anyone, but the last thing the team needs is for its fans to turn into pathetic bandwagon-jumpers.
I won't be an asshole and tell anyone here how they should think, but I really wish I could see more of the patience, intellect, and maturity that is supposed to be one of the hallmarks of this board.
RR's offense is solid, but it takes a QB to run it. I can't believe that Forcier is any better than seventy percent right now. RR has tried DRob, but at this point in time, seventy percent of Forcier is still better than a hundred percent of DRob or Sheridan. The biggest problem I see is that somewhere in Forcier's missing thirty percent is that split-second that turned him from a typical freshman QB into a brilliant playmaker.
The defense is terrible, but you can't really blame RR for that, either. Like the offense, they are young, and they are just getting beaten by superior play from opponents right now. And one of the more common comments this week is that RR "isn't recruiting enough people on defense." RR is recruiting plenty of them; he has just lost out on too many recruits on that side of the ball so far. That eventually turns around.
It is a roller coaster to watch a young team grow. They show spurts of potential followed by mind-bending incompetence. That's just the way rebuilding is. Those of you who want to throw RR under the bus are going to do it anyway, but I intend to keep supporting RR until he has the personnel to execute his vision on both sides of the ball.
RR didn't suddenly lose thirty points of IQ by moving to Michigan, despite what his "fans" in WV and a few bandwagon-jumpers in A2 think. He is still the same coach who has won everywhere he has been. And people are using his offense to get to the title game.
If you want to jump off the bandwagon and throw RR under the bus, go ahead; it's your choice. But it might be a lot more fun to have a little bit of patience and faith. It will make it that much more fun when the team finally does get back to where we want them to be.
"He is still the same coach who has won everywhere he has been. "
I don't think that being an offensive coordinator can qualify in that statement and the Big East until very recently was hardly relevant either.
I'm certainly not calling for him to be fired on Monday, but if we lose out then some serious discussion needs to be made in that direction. Do we only keep him because there is no one else available? $2.5 million/year should get more than 8 wins in 2 years. Do we want to become Notre Dame who has kept the whale ignoring all the evidence that a change needs made?
Again, only if we lose out. This isn't just a loss. We got CRUSHED by a 1-6 team which should be unacceptable to a program of Michigan's stature.
I like the Walmart Wolverines reference...good call. Asking for patience from Michigan fans is like asking a) everyone in the stadium not to criticize the playcalling regardless or era and/or coaching staff (it's the Michigan fan's right) b) asking Sparty fans not to burn couches (it's the MSU fan's right) or c) asking commentators to not talk about SEC speed all the time (hello CBS).
There are some things in this life that are not malleable.
To PaulVB for his Mod edit.
He certainly does have to prove to me as a ticket buyer and someone who donates that he is the guy. Obviously, the program would go on without my small contributions and I will continue to support Michigan Football for the rest of my life regardless of the guy, but I have to wonder how many people feel the same way I do and what impact that might have on the program going forward. Asking a coach to prove to the fans that he is guy to guide the ship is not unreasonable. In fact, much like it is up to citizens to hold elected official to certain standards, it is up to Michigan fans to hold the program and its staff to certain standards. I still am willing to give him a third year, but I am no longer a blind supporter.
are the worst. Don't break your ankle jumping off the bandwagon.
Where do I say anything about giving up Michigan football? I have never been or ever will be a bandwagon fan.
Does anyone here recommending we bail on coach Rod for the sake of hiring Kelly remember what ND did a few years ago? They fired Willingham to hire Meyer and ended up with Weis. Does anyone really want to go down that road?
Also, I find it really chickenshit for a mod to edit an original post to throw in their .02. If you have a point to make, reply.
I'm not quite sure if that is as relevant. Willingham had three years.
Rod will be here for another 2-3 years. Everybody has to deal with it, whether they like it or not. Maybe we'll be alright in the future, maybe we'll fall apart like Louisville under Kragthorpe. Who knows at this point. Just got to deal with it and support the team.
I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Kragthorpe is only in season 3 at Louisville. If we are 3-6 next year at this point, I'll bet you a good chunk of change Rodriguez is gone at the end of the season.
I like the perspective you bring here but this isn't a school where football is a distant second in the sporting universe. I'm patient that this thing will improve but if we look like Louisville in a year things will be intensely scrutinized by the new AD etc. if only because of the revenue implications for the school.
This has been said in some form throughout the thread, but those who are calling for Rich Rod's head put M at risk for becoming something more like Sparty, or, worse, latter-day ND.
I get the frustration; I'm frustrated, too. But some of you *really* want a coaching change? After a year and a half??
Think about the repercussions - some poor schlub comes in facing another situation where he's got another coach's players trying to fit into hypothetical new coach's system. What happens then? We fire him, too?? Not to mention: what coach would come to M when it would seem that some its fans are willing to kneecap his chances at winning before he even gets a chance.
The reality is that continuity and an opportunity to grow are necessary elements for a coaching change to succeed. People calling for Rich Rod's firing, IME, lack a fundamental understanding of why we're losing, as well as an understanding of college football in general.
I appreciate your avoiding the typical micro analysis of the coaching changes and adding some depth in perspective.
The cavalier tossing about of this label is really lame - every fan has a right to criticize his or her team, players, coaches. It makes them no less of a fan. I would even argue that some who call for change, for more years of pain to get back to where this program should be, while somewhat misguided as BlueinDC said, may even care more about the program than those who blindly support it no matter what. I may always consider myself a Democrat, but that doesn't mean I have to vote for who they nominate for president or not criticize Democrats.
Also - the mod's editing of the OP is pretty lame too.
I think calling people speculating about Coach Rod's job security "bandwagon fans" is pretty mild. He is in year two of a massive rebuilding project. If you don't believe me, just look at how many seniors are on this team (not many) and how many scholarships remain unused (lots). Second guessing or criticizing a particular decision is one thing, but even thinking that Rodriguez could/should be fired in the near future simply because his team is playing according to its experience level (if not better) is ridiculous.
Understanding how a successful program is built (successful recruiting now helps your team in 3-4 years, not immediately), having a sense of the learning curve for inexperienced college football players and taking both into account when assessing the performance of an insanely young team is not "blindly supporting" the coach. It is being an intelligent fan. Conversely, the people slamming Coach Rod because "omg make tackles, urrgghhg mistakes, no fumbles, freshman no excuse, this is UNACCEPTABLE!" are idiots (I would call them something worse, but everybody here seems to get offended when people say "retard").
I dont disagree - but you are citing the extreme cases of idiot fans, which is why I said "I would even argue that some who call for change..." I purposefully used the work "some" - some fans have made level-headed complaints about RR while some have been idiots. I simply think the term "bandwagon" should not be given to both.
but teams are supposed to improve throughout the course of a year, while we've seemingly regressed. last week you can say we screwed the pooch against a much better opponent but that line of thinking won't work this week.
fact is, we lost to a team who had 1 win with a coach who has constantly been mocked and ridiculed on this board as someone who cant make in-game changes yet we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter after we were in relative complete control of the game.
the team still looks almost comically bad 21 games into rr's tenure. with fumbles, penalties, yakety sax, and more fumbles, and dropped punts, and more fumbles, and fumbles, and fumbles.
how much of this is on rr? i dunno. he IS the head coach, and has been so since December 2007. these arent all his players, but they've all been in his system for 2 years and things we saw last year against utah are still happening this year 9 games into the season.
This team has been up and down in its performance all year because they are extremely young. Just because the second half of the last game was terrible, doesn't mean the team is regressing (as you pointed out, they looked great up until the goal-line stand). Anyone who expects a team loaded with first and second year players not to make tons of mistakes doesn't know anything about college football. These problems will all be sorted out when Rodriguez has a team full of experienced and talented upperclassmen supplemented by a couple recruiting classes worth of extra talent. This, however, takes time.
is coming from the fact that while yes, it does take 3-4 years to build a program, we had an incredibly successful program (albeit one that needed a heavy injection of modernizing) and we've seen regression based on an entirely new system being brought in.
We had the pieces in place to continue our tradition of pro-style offense and a defense full of highly rated recruits and in my opinion merely needed a coach who could maintain the program as LLoyd did but unlike Lloyd, was not too stubborn to adapt the game plan against non big-ten opponents.
I don't mean to re-hash the past but am merely trying to convey where a lot of the frustration with RR is coming from
next season, i expect us to get to a decent bowl game. the season after that (season 4), i expect us to be a serious big10 title contender.
if richrod doesn't get us there, by then, then i will be worried.
I say this because if he is fired, then it's back to square one with recruits and system. Unless they would hire a coach who runs the zone read offense like RR does. You get another pro-style coach in here and then the players are all wrong for that offense.
I think what we need is to get a couple freaks on the d-line and a couple corners who can play man all day and give out more than they take. The D steps up and shuts down some offenses, our offense gets pumped and they play a little more physical and get the ball in the endzone more. Talent is there on offense, while consistency is not. Talent is not there on defense. That's what needs the most work.