Rich Rod, Casteel, and the Myth about Money
I realize that this board will never agree on what caused Rodriguez to fail here. However, in an effort to focus our pointless bickering on the right questions, it's time to put to bed a very persistent myth. May the following remove one source of contention from our angry but increasingly-united fanbase.
The myth:
"In 2008, Bill Martin gave Rich Rodriguez only 265,000 to hire a defensive coordinator. This amount was too low to bring Casteel or any other top defensive coordinator to Michigan, which is why the defense was so terrible. Rich Rod was set up to fail."
Ignoring the silly notion that Martin would agree to furnish a new million-dollar weightroom and pay 2.5 million of RR's buyout but simultaneously put a $265,000 cap on the DC salary, let's take a look at what other power conference teams around the country were paying their DCs in 2008.
Ohio State (Jim Heacock): 260,510
Oklahoma (Brent Venables): 210,000
USC (Nick Holt): 300,000
Oregon (Nick Aliotti): 225,000
Alabama (Kirby Smart): 360,000
LSU (Bradley Dale Peveto): 200,000
Florida (Charlie Strong): 300,000
Nebraska (Carl Pelini): 190,000
Auburn (Ted Roof): 370,000
Georgia (Willie Martinez): 220,000
Florida State (Mickey Andrews): 295,483
Washington (Ed Donatell): 334,000
Cal (Bob Gregory): 168,000
Tennessee (John Chavis): 340,000
Texas (Will Muschamp): 250,000
Va Tech (Bud Foster): 300,000
Clemson (Vic Koennig): 260,000
Average: $269,611
Even assuming Michigan refused a requested increase, which is not supported by any documented facts, the offer of 265,000 was competitive even among the nation's richest big-name programs. The fact that it produced the 109th-ranked defense in 2010 is ridiculous and a spectacular indictment of the hiring abilites of one man. His name isn't Bill Martin.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:21 PM ^
Per Three and Out, Bill Stewart made a play for almost all of Coach Rod's assistants. When Stewart offered Casteel $275,000 "and more importantly, a two-year contract", it looked great to Casteel compared to Michigan's $265,000 and no contract. Bacon goes on to quote Mike Prrish (who's a really great guy, FWIW): "If they don't hire Stewart, Jeff Casteel comes to Michigan." (Three and Out, p. 89)
Meanwhile, in Tucson, Scooby Wright (sophomore linebacker) a Rivals two-star recruit who had ZERO scholarship offers when Arizona offered him is currently second in the Pac-12 in tackles and tackles for a loss. He's also third in sacks. He just won Pac-12 player of the week and NATIONAL defensive player of the week.
Be angry if you want, but the future of Arizona Football is bright. Rich Rod can flat out coach.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:22 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:25 PM ^
Well put. Firing RR in 2010 without having Jim Harbaugh in hand made no fucking sense.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:28 PM ^
Spending two recruiting cycles telling kids you have no idea who the coach will be if/when they arrive at Michigan makes even less fucking sense.
Thanks, Dave Brandon.
October 30th, 2014 at 9:39 PM ^
Indisputable upward trajectory? Did you see the end of 2010? There was nothing upward about it. Yeah, he pulled out a couple close wins against bad teams that went the other way in 2010. By almost any measure, his 2010 team was just as bad as the 2009 version.
October 30th, 2014 at 10:04 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 10:20 PM ^
The play on the field decidedly did not improve. We lost 6 games by double digits in 2010, and at the end the team was getting embarssingly demolished. I agree that Hoke is awful.
October 30th, 2014 at 11:57 PM ^
You do realize that we've already lost 5 games by double digits this year, don't you? Which is Hoke's fourth year on the job. I'm not really sure whose argument you're making now.
October 31st, 2014 at 12:20 AM ^
Yes, which is why I want to fire Hoke too. I have NEVER supported keeping Hoke.
October 31st, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 11:23 PM ^
The play improved every year*
*Except for, you know, the defense. And I guess going from #58 to #55 in FEI is improvement in offense?
October 30th, 2014 at 10:14 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:31 PM ^
My memory could be failing me but I think youre arguing against a percepetion or point few, if any, hold or attempt to make. Rich Rod's inability to draw Casteel to Ann Arbor was certainly a part of his downfall, but failig to lure Casteel because of the proposed salary is a point Ive seldom seen raised.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:33 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:31 PM ^
Why are some of you STILL trying to FIRE RICH ROD? Let him go. If you don't want to support him, fine. But why exert energy toward rooting against him? Why is that even a thing?
October 30th, 2014 at 10:09 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:31 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:46 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 9:07 PM ^
In my opinion RR is not an elite coach. He's a good coach, not a great coach. Look at his career. He's been a D1 head coach for 12 full seasons. In 9 of those seasons he's lost 4 or more games. He had three great years at WVU in the post-YTM, VA Tech, BC big east.
Everyone wants to say the UM years are the outlier, but the three great seasons look out of place too when you look at the overall picture.
October 30th, 2014 at 9:47 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:32 PM ^
That said, thanks for crunching the numbers and doing the research.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:33 PM ^
That same whiz of defense gave up 54 to Cal this year, yes, Cal.
Rich Rod played in a piss poor big east, and lost 3 of his 4 games in his final two years at WVU to UNRANKED teams, including the biggest choke job in college football in his loss to Pitt.
He also was a PR nightmare while leaving WVU, then again at Michigan. Coincidence that asshole pisses off people and leaves town?
Stop with the, he is successful everywhere else...where is everywhere else? He has been a head coach at three places, GVSU, WVU, and Michigan, before Zone. He had 5 losing seasons at all three, so the guy is not elite. Zona has yet to have a winning conference record, lets pump the breaks.
Rich Rod sucks.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:41 PM ^
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October 30th, 2014 at 9:57 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:41 PM ^
Brandon couldn't find a couple hundred thousand extra to put the guy that knows how to work w/ Rich Rodriguez in charge of our defense.
Whether or not that was the going rate, doubling it would have been chump change versus the amount the athletic department is going to have to spend to fix this mess.
Jeff Casteel's on the right in the clip below.
Jim Harbaugh's on the left.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^
Rich Rod didn't have to pay Barwise nearly 3/4 of a million dollars, and put a million in weight room renovations.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^
After RR beat Oregon, someone on this board made a long post about why the win wasn't a big deal. Someone would comment that "it was so Michigan of someone to write a post like that". That comment would perfectly apply here.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:54 PM ^
The same guys were saying when he got hired that UA would never even compete with teams like Oregon (2 wins), SC (1 win and 2 close losses), and Stanford (OT loss on the road in only game).
There is literally no world where these people will concede that maybe it wouldn't have been a complete disaster to wait one offseason just to be sure about what Rich Rodriguez was building here at Michigan. They were pissed and Michigan wasn't winning. That is the extent of the analysis and it will be indefinitely.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:58 PM ^
THANK YOU.
October 30th, 2014 at 10:00 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 9:37 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 10:43 PM ^
No one is saying we were good from 2008-2010. I'm well aware that we lost a bunch of games. When the last of those losses occurred when the head coach's first recruiting class were RS freshmen, then blaming him is dumb. Jim Harbaugh posted two losing seasons at Stanford. In year three he lost to 5-7 Wake Forest and had an atrocious defense. He shouldn't have been fired, and it worked out great for them when he wasn't.
Rich Rodriguez wasn't terrible for three years. Michigan football was, for reasons that had nothing to do with a lack of quality young players (in fact some of the guys Rodriguez brought in were already stars by 2010).
You being butthurt that the team wasn't winning is not a substitute for level-headed analysis of where the team was going. When your best players are freshmen and sophomores and you only lose one good player from either side of the ball, it looks like things are going up. It went up, right after the reason for the rise got pushed out the door. And now we find ourselves here again.
Brady Hoke isn't getting worse at coaching every year. Rich Rodriguez doesn't suddenly know what he's doing outside of Ann Arbor. Anybody can win a national title (Larry Coker, Gene Chizik) and anybody can have a shitty season (Gary Moeller for three years at Illinois, Harbaugh at Stanford, Beamer for quite a while at Virginia Tech, Gary Patterson last year).
Building a program is what matters. People didn't want to see what Rodriguez was building because they were mad we were losing (as you just illustrated). As a result we are currently in the toilet. Arguing so passionately in defense of such a dumb decision by an athletic director everyone seems to hate to hire a coach everyone seems to want fired (I think I'm the only person who has suggested he should be retained unless a surefire better candidate can be found) is fucking baffling at this point.
October 30th, 2014 at 11:14 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 11:25 PM ^
I could give two shits about what Arizona does. I just remember idiots going on about how because of what happened here with a depleted roster Arizona would never be able to compete with elite teams. The facts show they've been quite competitive. Those same idiots are still babbling about how pissed off they are that DickRod ruined Michigan football, and that firing him was a great idea even though four years later we're in the shitter (with a lovely stop in New Orleans along the way thanks to his positive stamp on the program).
Do you seriously think Hoke has just gotten worse at coaching the last two years? Or that RichRod is just making better decisions in Tucson? Do you seriously see no difference in the roster of the 2010 team and the 2011 team? More importantly, did you predict we'd win 10+ games in 2011 and then slowly descend into crapitude?
October 30th, 2014 at 11:46 PM ^
Compete with elite teams? You do realize that Arizona has played more teams than Oregon, right? They've lost 10 games in his first two years and had a losing conference record each year. That isn't being competitive with the elite teams. It's just more revisionist bullshit from you, which seems to be your signature.
October 30th, 2014 at 11:52 PM ^
I bet before the season (when you were operating under your now banned name) you were arguing that Arizona would not be better than Michigan for the third year in a row and the foreseeable future. Was that revisionist bullshit when I said that would happen? Or when I said Hoke would win 10+ games in year one and then slowly deteriorate?
How'd that work out for you?
You were wrong about everything. Your opinion now doesn't mean shit.
October 31st, 2014 at 12:21 AM ^
Who cares what Arizona does compared to Michigan? Arizona is mediocre and has been since he got there. Michigan is worse then mediocre because we hired a shit coach after Rich Rod, who was also a shit coach here. Get over it.
October 31st, 2014 at 12:29 AM ^
Highest winning percentage of any coach since they joined the Pac-8 once upon a time. WIth a freshman QB in year 3, after inheriting a 4-8 team that lost an NFL QB, top rusher and top three WR. Yup, mediocre.
I'm glad you find it so easy to "get over it" when Michigan football is in the gutter. You must be a model of mental health.
October 31st, 2014 at 12:33 AM ^
8-5, 8-5.
October 31st, 2014 at 3:09 AM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^
My only issue with the argument is the whole notion that because Hoke turned out to be a crap hire Rich Rod didn't deserve to be fired. This is stupid. Hoke being bad at his job has nothing to do with Rich Rod and what happened to him here at U of M.
RR went 15-22 in his 3 years here. Plain and simple that was his record. I know there are a myriad of excuses and circumstances that people will debate until the end of time as to why that was the case, but in the end that was his record.
Brady Hoke, for as mad as we all are and as horrible a job as we all agree he has done, is currently 29-18 in his 3+ seasons here. That means even if we don't win another game for the rest of the year, Hoke would only EQUAL the number of losses that RR amounted in only 3 seasons. Think about that for a minute. We are so incredibly fed up with Hoke to the point that there is almost no one calling for him to stay beyond this year and yet, if we somehow manage to win one more game this year, Hoke will finish his Michigan career with less losses than RR.
I agree with everyone that Hoke has to go, but people are really doing a poor job of remembering what the climate around the program was like in 2010. It wasn't very different than it is right now. And the results at the end of the 2010 season only reinforced that. Rich had lost the team by the bowl game and once that happens there is no going back.
Just because Hoke turned out to be a bad hire doesn't change the fact that RR failed here and needed to be let go.
October 30th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^
+1000000000
October 30th, 2014 at 8:45 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 9:05 PM ^
The question is not whether Rodriguez should have been fired or not; the question is whether a replacement Michigan can hire will do better than the current coach. This means a coach can go 15-0 and, depending on circumstances, it can still be the correct move to fire him. Michigan fired Rodriguez to either
1) start a coaching search that had to be rushed due to the flailing recruiting class, landing us Hoke, or
2) begin a farce of a coaching search that was always to end up with Hoke, pointlessly dragging it along for a week.
In either case, he hurt Michigan football's future by replacing Rodriguez with Hoke. Maybe he could have improved Michigan football's future by replacing Rodriguez with Harbaugh, but he didn't.
October 30th, 2014 at 9:12 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 9:40 PM ^
October 30th, 2014 at 10:14 PM ^
in all phases from year to year. Really, the only positives we can say about him involve player retention and recruiting rankings.
Meanwhile, we could see firsthand that Rodriguez's offense was bordering on greatness; if he could somehow fix the defense and special teams to become okay, the team would be in great shape to contend for the Big Ten. What could do that? Tripling Rodriguez's coordinator budget would help. Perhaps some positive press from the athletic department would give recruits more confidence in the football program, and would help Rodriguez recruit and retain players. Hoke received all of these resources from the getgo, yet his teams have trended downward from a lucky 2011 season to a very-understandable 2012, then to a subpar 2013 and apocalyptic 2014.
Of course, I am assuming the binary of either retaining Rodriguez or replacing Rodriguez with Hoke... because this is the binary that Dave Brandon chose from.
October 31st, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^
How can we suggest he hurt Michigan by replacing Rodriguez? Have you been in a coma? Have you watched any football this fall? He replaced him with a head coach with a losing record. Before Brady Hoke was hired, I would have bet my left nut that Michigan wouldn't hire a head coach with a losing record in the next hundred years.
Brandon and the rest of the Michigan Man cadre should have had their heads checked for even suggesting we hire this guy. It was the height of stupidity for people to believe that a coach's love for a school's tradition was somehow going to make up for his deficiencies in other areas and magically translate into wins.