landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
Trey is 100% expected but the thing with Hardaway is...he sometimes disappears during games...or goes through huge slumps. I think THJ can make an NBA roster but I would not call him a sure thing NBA player.
fuck. lets win it all!!
His play certainly has not indicated that he is NBA ready. Although I suppose that this tournament run has raised his stock. Not surprised about Trey though.
Hardaway is averaging 14.5 ppg, 3.75 rpg, 3 apg, and .5 steals per game during the tournament. Those are decent numbers, but I don't know how much they raise his stock. His season averages are 14.6, 4.6, 2.3, and .7, so his averages have all fallen in the tournament except for his assists.
I find it hard to believe they would make this announcement today. Not that I think it won't happen, but can't imagine this official.
It does seem really odd that these guys would do ANYTHING that could be leaked...even if they were both 100% that they wanted to go tot the NBA, it's much easier to say "I'll think about it with my family after this season" in the 5,000 press conferences these guys need to do than to answer alllll that stuff about deciding to enter the draft. Even beyond that the rest of the team has to answer about how they'll be next season without blah blah. Call me suspect.
He will be drafted around 35-40. Nothing guaranteed in his deal.
Come back, enjoy your SENIOR year.
Get a small injury insurance policy and let it rip.
I doubt he is in it for the money, his family is already paid. Also, he can't really hurt his draft stock. Just come in and be consistent.
Either way. We're lucky to have THJ as a Mich man. Good luck.
I'm sure you know more about his draft stock than Tim Hardaway Sr.
I would think think Tim Sr knows more about his son's draft stock
sarcasm[ sahr-kaz-uhm ]
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark
I never said anything about his dad.
I just think he can only raise his stock with a senior year. His family already has money, so he has no rush to go pro.
Without a first round guarantee, there's no reason to go anywhere.
Yeah, but his dad's an NBA scout. I think it's safe to say he's getting good advice.
This is also about next year's draft being perceived as much stronger than this one and a history of players dropping in the draft when then play all four years.
But it seems like they say that every year. Darius Morris "had" to go pro because the 2012 Draft would be stronger than 2011's . . . and then Trey "had" to go pro last year because the 2013 Draft would be stronger than 2012's. No one ever seems to project the upcoming draft to be good. It's always the next year's that is supposedly awesome.
That's fair and I was thinking that immediately as I posted it.
The main point is that he has better information and better connections into current NBA evaluations of his status than anyone here, so all the "he's not ready" comments are really pretty silly. If this is the decision he's made, it's almost certainly not coming from a misunderstanding of what scouts think of his game.
I think Timmy has a pretty good field of people to give him advice--his father, his father's multitude of contacts in the NBA and John Beilein to name a few. I suspect they are in a tad better position to assess his prospects than you or anyone here. And Tim's self interests don't necessarily mesh with ours.
It's not clear that Tim's stock will improve with another year in college--he may, in fact, improve more just being on an NBA roster--and this is a very weak draft. He's probably a high 2nd rounder, who could sneak into the 1st with good camps. I too would love him to stay--what a great kid--but he owes us nothing, and I will respect the decision he makes.
I don't disagree with any of this, except that I bet next year's draft will turn out to be "weak" as well.
Not to bash Sr. or the Hardaway family in general but I thought he was in money troubles?
Not that I would be surprised by this but it seems like pure speculation since they're not even allowed to talk to agents yet.
Damn. I thought THJ wanted to even the score with Indiana
I'll believe it when I see it. Unless he has some inside info (dad is a scout for the Heat), I just don't think he's well served by leaving early.
This likely means good things for Hardaway's draft status. His dad is a scout, if anyone knows where he will be drafted its Tim Hardaway.
Enter the "this is driving a wedge into the team" media vomit, when in reality they've probably been talking about this amongst their teammates for months...
Nexr year will be a much better draft class. This is a notoriously down year, THJ has to go. I think hes peaked at Michigan and needs to move on. Thank you for three great years, Tim.
I swear, every year they say this. It's always a "down year" so it's optimal to go pro now. A year from now they'll probably be talking about how loaded the 2015 Draft will be.
Yep, and projections for next year's draft always involve guessing how high school seniors will do as freshman and thus how attractive they will then be when they are eligible for the draft. History is littered with super blue chip guys who either didn't pan out or took a while to become good. It's highly speculative to talk about next year's draft.
Also, if a large number of guys in college now who might go pro next year decide instead to go pro this year because "next year's draft is so loaded" then this year's draft winds up having more talent and 2014 has less.
Seriously, wasn't last year a massive down year so that's why Trey was considering leaving. Then the year before that Morris left because the draft was weak.
and every draft service says so. When Mclemore and Noel (even with his injury and lack of scoring ability) are typically 1 and 2, the draft is weak. There isn't a single player certain to start as a rookie. And yes, outside of Davis and a surprising Lillard, last year's draft was also comparatively weak. It's not like Timmy would be a lottery pick if he came back.
I think we've gotten to a point, with all the one-and-dones, that there will never again be a "strong" draft. There are always going to be a ton of guys going pro with lots of deficiencies in their games. This is starting to sound like a cheap sales pitch to get as many guys to leave as possible. And then when they do, what do you know - next year's draft will be weak, too.
A player should go pro if he feels that his game is at an NBA level. If THJ thinks he is, I don't fault him - he gave us three years as a starter. I'm just getting tired of the "He's got to go now because this year's draft is weak" pitch. If you've got NBA game, you'll stick. If not, it doesn't matter how the weak the draft is - you'll be out of the league anyway.
this was suppose to be a stronger draft this year. So last year, everyone said 2013 would be a stronger year, but now that it is here, everyone says that it is weaker. Get it?
So if everyone uses that logic doesn't it inflate this years draft and to some extent deflate next years. Granted you have next years one and dones but as we see every year, it's not automatic that all highly touted players excel and declare.
Next year's class will be heavy at the top.. specially if guys like Nerlens Noel decide to stay.... But the fact that Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker might be in next year's draft shouldn't really affect TH jr. much. He was never going to be a top 10 pick.
Yeah, I feel like the 'this year's draft is weak' argument is stupid. Every once in a while there's a stacked field, but most every other year people rise and fall unexpectedly and things stay relatively even. Didn't Morris get that nebulous 'late first round' evaluation almost everyone gets, and coupled with a supposed down year if PG in the draft? Bam, second round and buried in the NBA.
If they're the only two to leave, we'll still be in good shape. THJ may want to wait for his evaluation from the draft board before he signs with an agent, though.
Obviously Burke is going to leave. I can see Hardaway considering it just because he may not believe he can improve more. I don't believe he's a first rounder, and a strong senior season could push him up there. I think we can be fine with Hardaway leaving if Robinson stays. With the addition of Irvin and Levert maturing, we should be OK. Obviously would love Hardaway to stay and be that senior leader we'll probably need without the steady hand of Burke.
"I can see Hardaway considering it just because he may not believe he can improve more."
Did I interpret this correctly? I think you meant to say, 'because he may believe he cannot improve more.' If so, that goes against all rational meaning for a person wishing to enter the NBA draft as well as a team looking for a quality selection. Why would a team draft someone who can no longer improve?
What you probably should have written is, 'because (Burke) thinks he has done all he can do at Michigan. Staying longer, while he may improve his game some, it is not significant enough, thus it becomes a matter of diminishing returns.'
Did I hit it correctly?
It seems very odd that a Forbes reporter would break this rather than a basketball source.
I like Hardaway but I am more concerned about GR3 than him as far as replacing him for next year. We'll see what happens with the games too. Have to think that winning a national championship could tilt the equation if anyone is on the fence.
Still think he needs to work on being a better passer and doing more off of the dribble. Right now he just drives straight ahead and does his pretty finger roll or layup but his handle is not tight enough to have a bigger variety of moves and I'm not sure that is going to be that effective in the NBA.
really? GRIII could have bigger upside but THJ has proven to be much more valuable this year. I would expect his 2013-14 scoring to improve significantly next year if he stays. He's a legit #1 scoring option. I'm not so sure about GRIII.
the good news is that our incoming freshmen could easily start right away if needed.
In no way this should be a shocker. My only hope is that Robinson learned from Trey and will do as he did.
His sources are probably other agents. I wouldn't read to much into this other than both players are thinking about leaving.
This article is a PR stunt by the agents named in the article. They are just getting themselves some free advertising by having someone leak this as a "news" story.
This article is not telling us anything that we don't suspect about Burke, and it wouldn't be a complete surprise if THJ left too.
Mark Bartlestein is a Top-10 NBA agent; the owner of the Priority Sports and Entertainment agency. And, he happens to also be Josh Bartlestein's dad. One would think that he'd have to be in the running for his son's teammates' business. Especially when trust is such a huge part of the agency/player relationship.
I agree that it is all way too early for any of the players or agents to breathe a word of anything to anybody. It can only be a distraction for Michigan basketball at this time. Early contacts by agents raise all kinds of NCAA red flags. One would have to guess that this is all pure speculation, and that it comes from the agency side of the buisness.
Something to keep in mind:
While this may be true (I think we'd all be 0% surprised to see Trey declare and 25% surprised to see THJ do same), Forbes.com has a similar model to Bleacher Reportand HuffPo when it comes to their articles - it's basically a contributed content farm model that incentivizes page-clicks. Forbes hosts 1,000 authors blogging about ten times that many topics - the Forbes brand gives them a certain cachet but I'd question how thoroughly they're fact-checked.
If Glenn Robinson III stays, then I think Michigan will be fine next year. But we're going to struggle if more than two of these guys (Burke, Hardaway, Robinson, McGary) go off to the NBA.
McGary already laughed off the possibility of leaving
I know...but Drew Henson said he was staying for his senior year.
I won't believe it 100% until the declaration date has passed.
Henson said he wouldn't enter the NFL Draft. He never actually ruled out going to play baseball.
Unless Mitch is actually also an MLB prospect, I feel good about him staying.
Just like THJ's dad may well be advising him that now is the time to take the NBA plunge, I would think the GR3's dad will urge him to stay one more year in college. It just seems that GR3 is young and needs just a bit more maturing -- the kind of things dads tend to be thinking about.
I was of course hoping that THJ would stay, but if I was his father I might well urge him to go now, too.
Unless he really, really wants to stay.
THJ should go only if he has good info about being drafted in the first round.
I just hope each one makes the right decision for himself.
I just hope each one makes the right decision for me as a Michigan fan. FTFY
Just kidding, but I agree with you, I hope each makes the right decision and if they both choose NBA, I hope they have excellent careers.
THJ surprises me, guess we better win the championship then eh?
A positive spin is that at least GRIII isn't mentioned.
McGary himself already said he's not going. We knew before the season started that Trey was going to go and he'd be right to do so.. There's a chance that THJ and a slimmer one that GRIII declare, but I'll wait for a more credible source other than a Bleacher Report equivalent to confirm this.
This to me is no different than those who announce where a recruit is going to make a name for themselves before the recruit makes the official announcement. If Hardaway and Burke are going, fine, but let them announce it on their own terms.
The largest concern for me is what Mitch and Glenn decide to do. Glenn will be really hard to replace on next year's roster. Mitch has stated he plans to stay, so that's favorable news.
Not surprised at all about Trey and Tim has not seen his numbers improve from Freshman to Sophomore to Junior years. He's been consistent but he should take the best opportunity to go high in the draft. If he feels that it's this year, all the more luck to him.
Not saying that Heirner is wrong, but if he is, he wouldn't be the first guy to be wrong about a player entering the draft. In fact, he wouldn't be the first guy wrong about it today!
Please let Wally Judge's decision be an omen here...
Wouldn't surprise me, but I won't believe anything till I hear it from them. We were told Burke was gone last year.
Point Guards on the team for next year will be Stauskas, Albrecht, Lavert and incoming freshman Walton?
Stauskas probably stays on the wing - or takes up THJ's role if he leaves.
I'd guess Albrecht starts over Walton early in the season until Walton becomes ready and takes over midway through the season.
Unsurprising....they've done all they can do in this town.
Caris Levert, your time has come.
THJ decision doesn't surprise me. It looks like GRIII is staying from what I have heard. With Zak Irvin coming in I don't think it will be that big of a drop off between the two. The kid can ball.
But it's never a sure thing until one of them say it.
The guy went reporting this went to Florida. He's probably just pissed that they destroyed his team so bad and he's trying to break the concentration of our team. Plus, how can you trust anything that someone who looks like this says?
Is that a professional sleeze ball.
Spike don't play with girls.
WTF happened to that poor man's scalp.
I don't think THJ would improve his draft stock if he stays. I think this is as good as it gets for him. I'm ok with it.
I just don't like the timing of this
Someone floated this balloon to distract the team prepping for Atlanta. Decisions may be made, but there is no way Beilein would let this get out before this weekend.
That said, I think we all know Burke is gone. THJ has always been a possibility to leave after this year as well.
The team needs to stay focussed on beating Syracuse.
Call me crazy, but this lineup is pretty good. With a bench of Horford, Irvin, Walton, Bielfeldt + walkons we'll still be a top 20 team.
That's probably the starting lineup for the 1st game but I would be shocked if Albrecht is still starting over Walton by the time we start B1G play. Spike can do some things but he is not a 33 minute/game type PG for us. Wouldn't be surprised if Irvin passes LeVert at some point although that will depend on how big of a step forward Caris takes this offseason.
As the Mitch McGary situation this year has shown us anything, it's that Beilein will take the time to make sure those guys are ready to be starters before he puts them in the lineup.
Ah depth, it's a good thing.
Ugh. That backcourt scares me. Neither of the guards (if you're putting LeVert at SG and Stauskas at SF) can really create his own shot. Albrecht is more of a spot-up shooter, and LeVert is pretty terrible offensively. You're basically expecting all of your offense to come from the three frontcourt guys. I think Irvin and perhaps Walton would start ahead of LeVert, who seems like a perennial role player.
Also, you didn't include Jordan Morgan in your calculations.
Do I think we'll have a better team with Irvin on the floor instead of LeVert? Yes.
Do I think JB will opt to start Irvin or Walton in November next fall? Probably not, but if it's one of those two it would be Irvin.
Did I think JMo was a RS Sr? Yes, but I'm and idiot and none of you should be reading what i'm typing anyway.
Your lineup might be accurate for the beginning of the season, but I think LeVert would be out of the starting lineup by late December or January.
If Levert can put on some more weight this off-season I think he'll be a much better offensive player. He just doesn't have the strength to go up strong in the lane and fight off body checks.
If next season were to start tomorrow, I'd agree with you. I think it'll depend on his weight and strength.
he will have another year of going through college S&C to bulk up. His body haven't caught up to his growth spurt. I think he can create his own shots, but he haven't had the opportunity to do so.
There is a 100% chance Irvin will start. He is a legit scorer, and can handle the basketball.
I think Walton is less of a lock, just because Beilein might be more comfortable with Spike to start off the year, but DWall will have that job locked down by B1G play. He's too good to leave on the bench.
LeVert actually has a good handle, probably the best on the current team besides Burke and he is able to get to the rim reasonably often. The problem is that he has zero ability to finish and is always getting blocked or missing layups after he gets the chest bump from the defender. He will probably never be very good at finishing with that thin frame but if he can learn how to draw contact fouls as well as pass off of the bounce then he can be somewhat of a creater. Definitely a project but I have some hope for him. Agree with your overall point that this team needs guys who can create shots and Walton and Irvin are probably going to have to step up and do that if we are going to be really successful.
I don't think LeVert has a better handle than Spike. Spike is a very good ball handler.
Spike does well in space but he doesn't have the control over it when things get crowded. Spike actually has the highest turnover rate on the team this year at 20.6. Granted that LeVert's low TO rate has more to do with him never touching the ball but I think if you watch them both off of the bounce, with both hands LeVert is better. He has the better crossover. Certainly in terms of a quick first step to create offense Caris is better. And guys on the team have said LeVert has a good handle as well.
I gotcha. However, Spike spells Burke and breaks the press pretty well on his own, at least in the tournament to date. Caris rarely ever touches the ball in pressure situations. I think that Caris is a better athlete and has a higher ceiling but I still think Spike's handle is much better at this point in their development. From what I see on the court, I think Beilein thinks the same thing.
for as long as Vogrich did this year before being replaced by Walton. You can't keep this kid on the bench for long.
Spike could start, but I think he and Walton will end up splitting minutes so it may not matter much.
LeVert is still 2 years away offensively to be a starter. He's a great defender and will grow in the role of "first wing player off the bench," but I think Irvin is too skilled not to start.
You're also forgetting Donnel, he'll figure into the big man rotation.
Lastly, Morgan is a RS Junior, he could come back next year. I would, he's not going to the NBA and he'll obviously play. Plus we have a scholarship available for him.
Donnel / Horford
Donnel / Horford
I added Walton as the 3rd team SG...again, LeVert has offensive limitations and there will be times where we go with Albrecht at the point and move Walton to SG.
I should've put Stauskas as the 3rd team SF because in this situation if he's on the floor, he'd obviously be the SF.
I think it would be:
This is a top 10 team. Three potential all-B1G players, GR3 could be pre season all american.
Am i the only one who think we could move Stauskas to the two and bump Robinson to the three. This would fit with coach B philospohy, as he likes a Donnel type player at the 4. I think there is no way that Spike can beat out Walton.
And destroy him. This is BS.
That would be the worst thing we could do. It would just bring more attention to his "news".
THJ has reached his ceiling as a player, people need to take a step back and realize that (right or wrong) performance doesn't away dictate if a player should leave.
THJ gains NOTHING in terms of draft stock if he comes back. He obviously gets another run at another Final Four and another year living the college life, but that's it. It doesn't benefit him in the NBA whatsoever to come back. In fact, it likely hurts him.
Again, Tim's not going to get that much better if he comes back. So THJ as a junior is ALWAYS better than the same player a year old as a senior. One is late first/early second, the other is a CLEAR 2nd rounder...the other is the senior.
This is not surprising. I've said over and over I think Burke and THJ go this year.
I think GRIII goes NEXT Year.
I think McGary goes the year after that.
I think Stauskas is drafted as a senior.
By the time Nik's a senior we could have a couple other players already come in and leave early for the draft.
Good problems to have...NBA level talent is a GOOD thing!
I agree that THJ has reached a ceiling, mostly because it seems like he's not getting any bigger/stronger.
I also think that with him gone, it leaves valuable PT for players like LeVert, Stauskas (who I would like to see at the 2 with a little more responsibility handling the basketball) and the incoming Irvin
Why is valuable PT for LeVert a concern? He's decent on defense, but he's terrible offensively. Having Hardaway back would be much more preferable than seeing LeVert on the court more.
I thought tim would stay for his senior season. his dad is loaded, he doesn't need the cash, why not stay and have fun one more year before going to work in the real world? good luck to him anyway.
I don't think his dad is loaded. Like many NBA players, he had financial issues after his career was done.
You know that for sure, is there any substance behind that.
A former Heat exec is in my building and said Mom Hardaway has made it clear to EVERYONE that her priority is the degree from UofM.
Why are some people forgetting about Zak Irvin. MR BASKETBALL IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.
Firstly, unless he's already been told there's no way his draft stock can go any higher, I don't get why Timmy is leaving (Trey leaving is a no brainer). Timmy is extremely inconsistent and I could only imagine one year of him playing like he can and not falling into one of his usual Big Ten conference slumps would help him drastically come draft time.
However, the biggest issue I have is that this chump outted these guys. Not only did he steal their thunder when they do announce, but it creates an unnecessary distraction and unwarranted pressure from fans/friends/family for the team to win it all now while they can. It's a damn shame people feel the need to be first is more important than a kid's privacy.
Edit: On a quasi-good note, I was wondering where Irvin would fit into our rotation next year. Sure seems like he has a good chance to not have to come off the bench now.
Timmy has to jump this year. There is no better time for it. The team is getting a tremendous amount of national attention being in the Final 4, and all of the 20th anniversary of the Fab 5 stuff.
Do you really think the team sans Burke will make a deeper tourney run next year?
His stock will never be higher.
Fuck the NBA, NHL. Talent leechers.
Yes, the best sporting leagues in the world at their respective sports are "leeching talent"
People want him to come back so Michigan is a better team and that's selfish. Good luck to him whatever he chooses to do.
Well we are Michigan fans...and I know that I want what's best for my team. So ya I want them both to stay.
I, and most others here, have very little doubt about Trey's intentions after the season. Show me something about Timmy's inner circle refuting this claim and you'll have my attention.
I think last year was supposedly low on point guards (which would've been good for Trey) and had quality big men.. even though Damian Lillard is gonna win ROY. After the clear cut top picks, it was more of a toss up for guys 7-15ish, still talented just not a ton of potential super stars.
Year before that there was the threat of the lockout, so they speculated less guys would leave early and make the class weaker...
This year people might say the class is weak since there's no clear cut #1 pick (would be Nerlens Noel, but he's coming off the acl injury)
So is this draft class a good time for Timmy to go? Maybe.. it might look weak now, and they'll probably start hyping the class more and more as draft day approaches. But as many others have said, I'm sure his dad, an nba scout, has a good idea of where teams project him. And he'll be getting lot's of attention on the big stage.
All I'm concerned with right now is the final four, and I think the team will be also. I don't see this being a distraction. Let's go win a championship and worry about the rest later.
I'd argue that if Burke and Timmay were to leave (I can't imagine Burke staying at all, but I thought Lewan was gone too), that we'd be more likely to weather the storm than if GR3 departs. Why?
While Derrick Walton has big shoes (and I mean big) to fill, he's a highly touted recruit in college basketball where more than enough freshmen make an immediate impact. Plus, Spike is there to help the adjustment period and we know Spike can play 15-20 minutes a game if need be.
Timmay has an obvious replacement in Caris Levert, who has put in meaningful minutes this year. Caris also has a replacement in the freakin' Mr. Basketball of Indiana, Zak Irvin.
But, GR3 brings a unique skill set to the table. A bigger body who can bang with 4s down low and hold his own (mostly) while being able to shoot it from the outside. Right now, there isn't an obvious replacement who brings a similar game to the table.
...looks perfectly fine. Not nearly as good as our team this year, but all our chief rivals will lose guys to the pros/graduation too.
That doesn't look nearly as good.
I think we all know Burke is gone minus a divine intervention, but if Hardaway wants to leave as well, that's his decision. I think his NBA stock is as high right now as its ever going to be. We'll miss him, but with the talent Beilein is bringing in, there hopefully won't be much of a drop off.
Received call from Tim Hardaway Jr.'s father. Says son has not yet decided on leaving early. Also denies intent to sign w/agent Henry Thomas
— Darren Heitner (@DarrenHeitner) April 4, 2013
Well played, sir, well played.
I doubt there will be any definitive answer before the season ends, lot's of denying regardless of what the final decisions are. I'm sure we'll all be following the updates, but it'd probably be a lot easier to not worry about it for now haha.
He also tweeted later that, in spite of this new info, his source still believed Timmy was gone. Either way, I agree with the sentiment above: couldn't this have waited until next week?
Well no one comes out publicly and says their going pro during the season, so any denial right now i would take with a grain of salt.
Received call from Tim Hardaway Jr.'s father. Says son has not yet decided on leaving early. Also denies intent to sign w/agent Henry Thomas
— Darren Heitner (@DarrenHeitner) April 4, 2013
I fucking HATE the timing of these reports. Why this shit couldn't wait until next week is beyond me.
I can understand Heitner's timing.
He wanted to be faster out of the gate than his Florida Gators were last Sunday.
I believe your last remark is worthy of an exclamation point (!).
especially with Junior, if Louisville guard Kevin Ware's broken leg had even the slightest influence on the decision.
Irvin will be the best player on our team next year. Hardaway leaving will be sad, but we are reloading under Beilein. Irvin looks like a monster, a more athletic THJ.
I don't know about more athletic. But he has a more complete offensive game.
Calling it now. You are wrong. Mitch McGary will be the best player on our team next year.
Let's just enjoy the next three days, and hopefully five.
Timmy may understand that when Burke leave next year, he will either look very good because he will be taking over the offense or bad because his flaws will be even more exposed.