Relax

Submitted by BILG on
I have been seeing some ridiculous commentary here....Even comparing today's coaching to some of the painful losses endured in the later years of the Lloyd Carr Era.

First, relax.....This is a young team on or ahead of schedule. 

Now to address the most idiotic, reactionary comparison I have seen on the boards today. 

This was NOT Lloyd Carr mentality....Not every loss is due to poor coaching, and even if poor coaching is involved (as could be argued on some RR calls today) not all poor coaching is of the same genre.  Further, one call, or one game does not a trend make.

The LC - RR divergence, for anyone stupid enough to not see it yet.....

Lloyd wasted talent all day and played to keep it close. This game today was a case of getting dominated at the line of scrimmage and not being able to get the spread run going......which is a huge part of the offense. That is what opens up the 7 yard outs on the rollout...IE, Tate has the option of handing off, running, throwing a quick out, or rolling out and throwing down field. When the run is not going and not a viable option, it puts a lot of pressure on the qb, and really destroys the flow of the offense. Tate played great considering.

Lloyd Carr mediocre mentality occurred when we were clearly the superior team and would blow it by playing not to lose....We would out gain our opponents in yardage, have fewer turnovers, would have superior talent all over the field....but somehow the games were always too close at the end when playing the NWs or Illinois of the world under LC. In many ways today was the opposite of Lloyd Card mentality....we were in a game we had no business of winning, taking it to overtime miraculously. This is NOT a national championship caliber team yet. Talent and experience is not there yet. If anything, they are overachieving considering all the freshmen and sophomores starting. When RR squanders talent like Tom Brady, A-Train, David Terrell, Marquise Walker, Chris Perry, Marlin Jackson, Braylon Edwards, Chad Henne, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, Lamarr Woodley, Larry Foote, Steve Breaston, Mario Manningham, Jake Long, etc, etc, etc..... and only manages to win 1 BCS game with such talent (Orange Bowl) then I will start bitching about RR. 1997 bought Lloyd a lot of leeway, but no doubt nobody did less with more talent than Lloyd in his final five years.

This game was nothing of that sort. Sparty actually completely outplayed Michigan and won because of it. They deserved the win....Had we pulled it off it would have been a stolen victory, which while I would love, would still not prove that we had "arrived." We are simply making progress.

Have some perspective people. Its a team with two freshmen qbs starting their first road game, against a rival none the less. Given that they came back and found something in the fourth quarter, and Tate continues to prove how clutch he is, this team is moving in the right direction. We are very thin at many positions on defense as well. Another year, a couple more recruiting classes to fit RR's schemes, (and please God, some first rate corners, safeties, and D-Line and LB recruits) and we will be a machine. Baby steps.

Lloyd Carr
true freshmen qbs

UMAmaizinBlue

October 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 PM ^

If not so eloquently put (douchebags?). Still, I agree that people need to relax a bit. I also think that you need to give people a little time to recover. Not everyone may be like you or me and able to push aside the anger/disgust after losing to a rival so easily. Give people a day or two, allow Brian to provide a little sanity and structured analysis into what we saw today, and then see if they're still griping. Until then, let's try our best to gather ourselves as fans, move past this and move on to the next game in time. I mean, this is still the same fanbase that has survived the HORROR and last years atrocity, isn't it? We're a hardy bunch! We'll survive. On the Lloyd Carr note, I will admit that I've never considered the idea that '97 bought Carr more time as a coach (if not at the moment or the near future, then for the time at the end of his tenure). I will admit that I was still a pup back in 1997 and up until 2001 didn't seriously follow UM football, but it's an interesting bit to consider, if not wholly subjective. I do feel that RR will use the most out of the talent he gets, whether it be a 5-star recruit or a walk-on. People have knocked the idea of starting walk-ons so frequently this year, but it seems to have worked in some areas, particularly Kovacs. Perhaps RR is a master at seeing the passion in these kids and by giving them a chance to play he is able to unleash some sort of hidden talent that many may have missed. That's just my opinion, who knows. I do know this though: this time last year, if you have told me that we'd be 4-1 at this point next season, I would've called been overjoyed. So I'll let the pain of this loss wash away like so many others o come and so many others that have passed, and then I'll get back to being proud to be a Michigan Wolverine.

Joined: 09/23/2009

MGoPoints: 36269

jsquigg

October 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 PM ^

I think you make some good points, although I was disappointed that they didn't come out more aggressively like they have in past games. They don't have to try to set up their zone read play to have success, they could've tried to pass first, but your point is still taken. I think GERG needs to stop going with a three and four man rush on third and long and could have blitzed more, but overall the defense played tough IMO. I hope this loss doesn't affect the team too much because the schedule only gets harder. I think the loss of Molk has affected this team more than we realize. Other than that, we are young and we are doing better than projected so far so we just need to take a deep breath and come out strong against Iowa.

Joined: 09/06/2009

MGoPoints: 9621

Miss Meeechigan

October 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 PM ^

What's with the Lloyd bashing? I'll admit that his game was less than imaginative. We all knew what was going to happen next, but we never had a season where we were all hanging our heads at the end with Lloyd. Don't get me wrong, I love the exciting play that Rich Rod has brought to the big house, I just think that Lloyd deserves a tad more credit.

Joined: 10/03/2009

MGoPoints: 19

Don

October 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 PM ^

and it's still the case now. It's a young team at critical positions, and mediocre at best in terms of raw talent at other positions. As a consequence, this team is not ready to compete for a Big Ten title. To do that, we have to be competitive with Ohio State, but there's no evidence right now we are. We gave up 197 yards rushing to Indiana on our home field, and the Buckeyes gave up 18 on Indiana's home field. That's a significant differential. The victory over Delaware St. is a gimme, but getting to six, let alone the 8 and 9 so many here are confidently assuming, is going to be much more of a struggle than one would suppose sitting at 4 wins already. The defense gives up huge amounts of yardage, especially on third down, the DBs play as far off the LOS as they did under Herrmann, and the oft-proclaimed aggressive defense we'd been promised for the third DC in a row is for the most part non-existent. Combine that with an offense that performs sporadically due to youth and inexperience and injury, and you've got a team that's middle of the pack in the conference.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 148288

SarcasmoBY

October 3rd, 2009 at 11:24 PM ^

Nice post - As much as I hate losing to MSU I'm still excited about the direction the program is taking under RR. I love the fact that with us down by 14 and only 4 minutes to go in the game, I still have faith we can get back into it. I thought GERG made some good adjustments at half time (how were we not within 10 yards of the slot receiver on those bubble screens in the first half??). That being said, we definitely need some help on the defensive side of the ball (Cullen Christian pleeeease). And if anybody had doubts before this game.... Tate proved his MOXIE!!

Joined: 01/30/2009

MGoPoints: 18

foreverbluemaize

October 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 PM ^

I agree that LC was a great man as does the majority of this board. LC has always gotten nothing but respect from me and I suspect that that will never change. The problem with LC was that College football changed while he was at UM and he did not change with it. I suspect as great of a coach as Bo was he would have struggled against a lot of these teams (I mean no disrespect to Bo God rest his soul). RR understands the new face of College football and it is blatantly obvious to me that he is doing what is needed to right the ship. I think the way that we were able to come back and nearly pull off the win should help to show future recruits that RR is the right man for the job.

Joined: 02/03/2009

MGoPoints: 817

ahs22

October 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 PM ^

Even the most ardent Lloyd Carr supporters such as myself acknowledged that in 2007 his time had come - his conservative style was simply going to end in BCS loss after BCS loss. That being said, it angers me to see some fans take the stability he provided for granted and act like we are entitled to Rose bowl bids and Big Ten championships simply because we're Michigan. It was easy to bash Carr after we lost in bowl games or to Ohio State in his last few years but as last year showed - 33 consecutive bowl appearances does not entitle you to the next one. This is not an attempt to excuse how badly we performed in big games near the end of Carr's tenure (aside from OSU 2003 and Florida 2008) but merely as a reminder to the Michigan fans who think the block M constitutes an automatic bid to playing on new years day that it surely does not. I agree with the original poster that to panic and bash RichRod at this point would be a significant overreaction - the guy has proven he can win many many regular season games and will surely continue to do so in Ann Arbor. However, I do not feel as positive about the future as many people on this board seem to. My main problem with the Rodriguez program is a lack of focus on defensive recruiting. The current deficiencies on defense are for the most part Carr's doing - his best 2 safety recruits in his last years, Mouton and Brown, were not fit to play the position and many of the linebacker recruits have simply not panned out. However, Lloyd also recruited the only 3 legitimate pro prospects on our current defense in warren, graham and will campbell (although RR retained him). As I look at our recruiting class from last year and this upcoming year it is quite disconcerting. I appreciate and acknowledge RichRod's ability to develop 3-star talent into above average college players but I worry that the deficiencies in defensive talent we've seen so far on this year's team are not going to be quickly remedied. This is nothing new for Rodriguez, as Pacman Jones is the only WVU defensive player I could come up with off the top of my head that was chosen on the first day of the NFL draft. Offensively, the guy can clearly scheme with the best of them and I expect our offense to be near the top of the big-10 throughout Rodriguez's tenure. At the same time, however, the Rodriguez's spread seems to struggle in the rain and is very dependent on a quarterback that takes an incredible number of hits per game. If Tate were to go down this year (god forbid) we're immediately no better than last year. I distinctly remember Pat White on the sidelines as WVU lost out on a chance to play in the national championship during the Pitt game in 2007. Overall, I believe that the Rodriguez era will be full of fantastic wins like Notre Dame and crushing losses like today but I just can't see a team with a powerful yet erratic offense and a weak defense ever going 12-0 or 11-1. Curious to know what everyone thinks??

Joined: 10/03/2009

MGoPoints: 18

BILG

October 4th, 2009 at 11:02 AM ^

1) This post was not intended to be a Lloyd bashing, but instead a response to those likening this loss to those of the LC era. My point is simply this is not of the same mold. There are many ways to lose, and many ways to get out-coached, but this year's version of UM-MSU was not a case of the significantly more talented and experienced team allowing the game to stay close and finding a way to lose (as was often the case with LC). My point is simply, UM got outplayed at the line of scrimmage and deserved to lose. My argument has always been that Lloyd had stacked teams and they played mediocre football. This year's version of UM is indeed a mediocre team, so to expect greatness is premature. 2) LC was a solid coach for the first part of his tenure. Things really changed for the worse after the 2000 Orange bowl. The only big win after that game was 2003 OSU. Yes, Lloyd was consistent and a good man. But given all the NFL talent he recruited (and look at their impact in the league...Brady, Woodley, Jackson, Edwards, Breaston, etc), to only have 1 BCS bowl victory is an underachievement. IMO, in his last few years he held down the fort, but never reinforced it, and the game was beginning to pass him by. 3) The defensive recruiting comment is the most interesting response I have seen. I totally agree, that RR needs to do more to bring in big time recruits on that side of the ball. Is Greg Robinson the right man for this job?....I have no idea, but it is clear that RR has pretty much entrusted him with this unit, so he can focus on the offense. Getting speed and talent at skill positions on offense will not be a problem given the fun and gun system RR is installing. But to really compete at the BCS level we need speed on defense. "SEC speed" is a myth when looking at skill position players (recievers / RBs are fast at all big-time programs in the country). Where this argument has some validity is at the D-lines and LBs, where they really are faster in the south.....(Play football year round.) Skill position players in the north often run track in HS, so are not as much at a disadvantage when compared to their peers in the south. Point being....ahs22 raises a great concern, are we recruiting enough talent on defense?

Joined: 08/31/2008

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