Recruiting concerns.

Submitted by MichiganMan14 on

There is an elephant in the room. We dance around it and it's time to stop. We don't have the proper athletic talent at our 4 and 5 spots. We try and win with middling talent in the paint and stretch 4 and 5s!?!?! This is not going to work for this program in my opinion. The Center for SMU had 8 dunks tonight. 8! That's absolutely a result of inadequate recruiting and coaching in the paint. We have som great wing players but we sorely lack in the paint. We are one of the worst rebounding teams in the B1G year in and year out and have to shoot extremely well to win. Connecticut ..Xavier and SMU all featured athletic front lines and all 3 embarrassed us badly. Many will think we lost tonight because Caris shot miserably. We lost because we have guys playing in the paint that simply can't get it done. It's very similar to our line backing core down the stretch. The level of athleticism simply isn't there to compete on an elite level.

 

The Xavier game sticKS out most because that Center was from Detroit....and he manhandled us. We have 3 players at the 5 spot that are not physically able to compete on an elite level. Moritz may get there and has talent and youth on his side. He may turn out to be an exception and is very likeable. The other 2 just have not progressed and are assuredly great kids...but not effective simply put. Why does DJ Wilson not play? He's by far the best athlete and plays the least. It's a head scratcher for me because his ceiling suggests that he'd be worth the invested minutes. He gets scrap minutes...and is our best athlete in the paint. This wouldn't be as troubling if there wasn't more of the same coming down the pipe in recrutiing. We still don't have an athletic big coming in for the next 2 classes and Beilein seems to be willing to settle with this. This is simply upsettling. Webber...Howard....Baston....Taylor...Trayor......hell even Courtney Sims and J. Morgan! Where are our athletic bigs these days? It sure seems like everyone else has them. We used to have them and we've gotten completely away from it.

 

You do NOT win without athletes in the paint. Simple and plain. The notion that we can shoot our way around it or hit on one single big recruit (Mitch) in a 4 year span is absolute rubbish. Something needs to change. Michigan used have some of the most dynamic athletes in the country in the paint and until we get back to that it's just going to be hard to stomach. We need to recruit Detroit for starters and play our athletes. We can continue to avoid this elephant and make excuses as to why we are consistently losing to physical front lines...or we can adapt and change. We are not going to win without help in the middle. 8 damn dunks from one player.....that's not even pride. If Bacari is in charge of the bigs....then he needs to be held responsible because it's awful. Youth is something everyone plays with and isn't an excuse.

 

Recruit Detroit please...or at least fight like hell to do so. Tired of seeing homegrown talent go elsewhere and us running to the damn burbs to grab underrated kids who don't play with the same explosiveness and passion. Enough is enough. Your 5s don't need to be able to knock down 20 foot jumpers. That's horse crap. Get some dogs in the paint. We look straight up soft right now and thats the worst thing to look like.

CorkyCole

December 9th, 2015 at 9:36 AM ^

Dealing with a Sophomore McGary leaving early due to NCAA suckyness. Maybe not this year but last year for sure. By the time some of these guys become juniors and seniors, we will have decent to good Big play again. Beilein barely missed out on some top recruits that could have seriously helped this team. 2016 recruiting ended on a positive note (assuming it's over), and Teske will be a positive player on the defensive side of the ball at the center position. Let Wagner grow and see what happens with Teske to see how the future goes. One of the main issues is that Donnal is looking like somewhat of a "bust" pickup. He isn't one yet and still has time to prove himself, but he will need a lot of growth and added aggression to not be a disappointment. Doyle had his moments of anger last night that I was happy to see. Hopefully Beilein can find ways to bring that out more in him.

BlueinLansing

December 9th, 2015 at 12:41 AM ^

a game on the road to a team they were an underdog against that has literally nothing else to play for but "big" games like this one at home.

 

We played terrible, leave it at that and move on.

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

December 9th, 2015 at 12:46 AM ^

We had a big game at home against a respectable program (Xavier) and got run off our court.

Isn't it time to expect something from these guys?

The losing is not the issue, its the manner in which we do it.

I thought we were beyond the (its a road game, eh no big deal is we lose by 20 crap).  

This looks exactly like last year to this point.

Jack Hammer

December 9th, 2015 at 1:05 AM ^

I'm sick of saying we lost big move on. Esp following a season without postseason play. Like Clete told Coach Dale, "I sure hope you know what you're doing." This does not look like a team capable of 10 B1G wins right now. Make me eat crow, Coach B. Please.

bluesalt

December 9th, 2015 at 12:43 AM ^

The perimeter defense has been not-at-all good. Only the rarest of bigs can stop the penetrating dribbler and recover when said dribbler passes it to the guy he just left for an easy 2. We're getting gashed.

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

December 9th, 2015 at 12:49 AM ^

We will not win many games giving up a layup line and dunk drill to other teams.  

We don't compete for the ball on defense and we don't grind.

Zack and Stu maxed out their abilties, grinded their asses off, and built the foundation of this program.

Right now, we are reverting to pre-2011 play, and its really sad.

Why do we even schedule these type of games if we aren't even going to care to show up or compete.

 

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

December 9th, 2015 at 12:52 AM ^

Echoing some of the above posters, its about time everyone start respecting what Jordan Morgan did here.

 

trueblueintexas

December 9th, 2015 at 12:58 AM ^

I know it's fun picking a stat and building a story around it, but this one doesn't fly. Of those 10 dunks, only three were because of poor post play. Two of those were against the freshman Wagner. To be expected as he learns the U.S. game. The others were because the guards gave up penetration, the bigs stepped out to help and their bigs stayed home waiting for the pass or alley-oop. That is not the bigs fault. Would you rather he give up the layup or dunk to the guard to stay home on his man? Blame the guards for not being able to stay in front of their man, blame the coaches for a bad scheme, blame the guards for not rotating, but don't blame the bigs for trying to play defense on two people at the same time.

Maize_Nation

December 9th, 2015 at 1:55 AM ^

Never understand why people say things like this. It's past the point of illogical, to being downright moronic. How many coaches have won a big ten title in the past decade not named Beilein? He is not the only coach capable of doing so. The fact that our coaches before Beilein were worse than him, is in no way an argument in Beileins favor. If a student got 50% on a test and the only students you compare him to are the three students who got 20%, he's gonna look great. But the picture changes when you don't selectively compare him to failures. The previous Michigan coaches are not relevant whatsoever in an evaluation of Beilein.

JamieH

December 9th, 2015 at 1:58 AM ^

There is no "argument for keeping Beilein" because there is no argument.  No sane person would be arguing about this.   He has won us TWO Big Ten titles in the last 4 seasons and almost won us a National Title.  Yes I know one Big Tne title was shared. 

If you are counting, that is 33% of our Big Ten titles in the last 40 years.   The only Michigan coach to have more Big Ten titles is Dave Stack, and he won all of his with arguably the greatest player in Michigan history, Cazzie Russell. 

The idea that we should fire Beilein because we struggled last year and are struggling this year is utterly ridiculous. 

 

Maize_Nation

December 9th, 2015 at 2:06 AM ^

There are hundreds of other programs and coaches. They are all just as relevant as Michigans past coaches. And for the record, I am not in favor of, nor arguing for, removing Beilein.

I Like Burgers

December 9th, 2015 at 7:28 AM ^

And some people are good at building things to a certain point while others are good at taking it to the next level. In sort of a Rick Carlisle - Larry Brown (ironic reference) kind of way.

JB was great at bringing us back from the dead and taking us to a title game and winning Big Ten titles. I'm just not sure if he's the guy to keep us at that level regularly.



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Maize_Nation

December 9th, 2015 at 11:30 AM ^

Great argument. Lets just ignore what other people say, and pretend that they said something they didn't. Nowhere in my post did I insinuate I want to fire Beilein, nor did I criticize Beileins coaching ability. My post really had nothing to do with Beilein, it dealt with the lack of logic in your argument.

Cali Wolverine

December 9th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^

...I am just dismissive of those that have no perspective or do not learn from the past. So I should not measure the success of Harbaugh in comparison to prior Michigan coaches because there are hypothetical other coaches across the country that may do the job even better? So when analyzing the success of a coach at a particular school, I should not look at the history of a program, the culture, the conference, myopic fans, as a reference point? You would probably be a shitty athletic director.

MichiganMan14

December 9th, 2015 at 1:01 AM ^

What we have coming down the line in recruiting is more of the same and not the changes we need.  We need explosive leapers and high energy kids who play pissed off in the paint.  Moritz is a baby now and its possibly not fair to clump him into this at the moment.....but Dammit....every other big program gets play NOW freshman so.....

We need grown ass athletic men in the paint.  Purdue...Staee....Ohio....Maryland all have big athletes in the paint.  We will have to shoot the lghts out to stay close.   THis is a Beilien problem created through lackluster recruiting.  You can only miss so many times and completely miss on so many guys before your ability to identify post talent comes into serious question.  Missing out on Bluiett.....Battle....Brown was also devastation.  Not being able to get Josh Jackson to even seriously look at us is purely a lack of recruiting ability.  Detroit had Jackson....Winston and bridges all available.  We missed on all three.  Goddamn unacceptable.  You win with great coaching and elite athletes.  Coaching is nothing without the athletes and it has been far from great lately.  There needs to be a shake up.    

nerv

December 9th, 2015 at 9:37 AM ^

So I take it you have no excitement for the addition of Jon Teske to the roster? No he isnt an elite athlete but he is going to be the biggest player we've had on our roster in some time. Having a legit 7 foot shot blocking threat in the paint is something I am very much looking forward to. It is something that is going to alter what opposing players, both guards and centers, do when they get around the rim.

nerv

December 9th, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^

What exactly is your criteria for "generic" ? He is a 4 star to rivals and one of the highest 3 stars to the other sites. Seems a tad higher than "generic". A rim protector with size and length would go a long way to help our current defensive issues. He is limited offensively and I would think that is the likely reason for not being rated higher. But his defensive and shot blocking instincts combined with his size leaves a lot of optimism for what he'll bring to the team.

Or, hey, the sky is falling and well never have a decent post player and our chances of being a quality program have entirely eroded forever and ever.

HighSociety

December 9th, 2015 at 1:02 AM ^

Other than Jordan Morgan, who got absolutely pissed on by the Detroit PSL fans his first few years at UM, Michigan hasn't had a decent instate player since Manny Harris and yet has sustained one of the most successful stretches in program history.

MichiganMan14

December 9th, 2015 at 1:07 AM ^

Or Xavier....or Iowa.   Michigan doesn't use its biggest and most fertile recruiting ground and its right there.  It's laughable.  You say it's garbage?  Wow.  Enough people think like you and thats why we will continue to look like boys in the paint.  We dont have the players or the aggression as a program neccessary to win in the paint....where it counts.  Something needs to change unless you like losing by 13+ every time we play a legitimate team with legitimate D1 talent in the paint.  

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

December 9th, 2015 at 1:12 AM ^

I would say DeShawn Sims was the last great player out of Detroit for us.

Manny Harris had to many facepalm moments and then bailed after his junior year despite it being clear he had little to no chance at being a stable NBA player.

Also we spent a long time recruiting a PG from Detroit and the kid tried to fuck us over at the 11th hour by refusing to reschedule his visit mid-week and refusing to commit before the visit.  

Wolverine Devotee

December 9th, 2015 at 1:08 AM ^

I can't stress enough how ridiculous people are being. It's December. 

I'm done trying to talk sense into people.

If those freaking out, calling for changes want to jump off the bandwagon that most of them weren't on prior to championship banners, be my guest.

If that comes across as condescending as someone earlier said, then good.

I guess I'm a mean fan that isn't giving up literally 9 games into the season.