The "GOOD DAY sir," totally made this post.
Re. "You Suck!"
I think it's great. It's smart-ass Michigan students being as literal as possible.
That's like when Lady Gaga says that Telephone is really about the unique sociological challenges presented by the hyper-connectivity of the advanced information age.
'You suck' is smart-ass Michigan kids making themselves sound like dumbass Sparty kids. Any element of jaunty and unexpected literal-mindedness you may be imagining ... it, uh, doesn't come across in a stadium setting.
That's really all he's got.
You're incapable of forming an independent thought, aren't you? I'll give you a pass if English isn't your first language, but otherwise ... damn.
That's a terrible analogy. In fact, it's the exact opposite of the point I was making. Smart people acting dumb does not equate to dump people trying to act smart.
In any case, you second point is even worse. Since apparently you still live in a world where State kids are "dumbasses." We can argue about the various moral standards and "lunchbox mentality" within each fan base but let me tell you that it's pretty hard to get into State at this point, and it's not just all the "ruffians" and "ne'er-do-wells" that enroll. Welcome to 2010.
Your third point is actually by far the most terrible. Michigan kids want to get their point across with a chant after 3rd down. They do. OP attests to hearing the chant on TV. That means it uh, comes across in a stadium setting. That's my point. It's literal and it works. Perhaps you can write up a new cheer for temptation, "ouuuuur defense is beeeessst, noooow our offeense's tuuuuurn" but it would probably suck and be too complex to understand. Certainly the whole student section wouldn't join in, because, as you may have noticed, the kids enjoy harassing the other team these days. And with the tuition they're paying, I'm willing to let them.
Perhaps a viable alternative would be something like "defense-sieve, defense-sieve" or "defense-suck, defense-suck" because it's simple and it relates to hockey. But your general idea about getting more creative, it's a bad idea.
But there seems to be a reading comprehension problem here. Yes, the words 'you suck' do come across. What fail to come across is that this is smart kids letting loose, or whatever navel-gazing gloss it is that you've put on this thing.
Yeah, if I had to come up with something, it might suck. But the student body at large can do better than You Suck, I pray god. Maybe not you personally, but someone.
To your point. This:
We can argue about the various moral standards and "lunchbox mentality" within each fan base but let me tell you that it's pretty hard to get into State at this point, and it's not just all the "ruffians" and "ne'er-do-wells" that enroll. Welcome to 2010.
Is a hot mess. Of coure it's not all morons that get into State, but the crowd at a State game is unquestionably a dumbass collective. The culture of the football program at State is rife with dumbassery. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about with lunchbox mentalities, since no one brought up white linebackers or fullbacks with marginal speed and warrior hearts. Nor the 2004 Pistons. At any rate, I don't really have any interest in arguing it.
Finally, that's really a great story about admissions standards in 2010. Everyone is proud of you.
Are you old or just clueless?
Unless it's this guy.
2003 but started my second year in 2004 during the "stop the chop" campaign.
if you are in this thread and said "the claw" looks like shit your opinion should be disregarded.
last I checked wolverines do not chop or own a tomahawk so doing the chop looks incredibly stupid.
do the claw period. and also even as a stupid I wouldn't participate in the you suck Chant unless it was a big stop because well most people in the stadium are idiots.
I also disagree with doing the way before the 3rd quarter and up less than 3 scores while on defense.
The CLAW FTW. The chop is for dbags. We're Wolverines, and therefore we have CLAWZ. ARRRRRGHHHH, and so forth....
I wish I could introduce you the The Jim Weber. You guys would love each other.
I don't see what the big deal about the chant is. "Suck" doesn't even count as a swear word.
However, I would prefer that people wouldn't do that when there's more than a two score deficit (or lead). People were chanting that late in the game against Oregon 2007, which was pretty stupid. On the other hand, if we're winning by a lot, saying it is just redundant.
Crowd noise at football games is meant to antagonize, belittle, demean, and anger anyone associated with the opposing team, hopefully even their players. That is why "you suck" works better than "hooray for our team." Exposing our opponents to a hostile environment contributes to a home-field advantage. You want to know where to draw the line? Try drawing it at the stadium gate. My only problem with "you suck" is the lack of creativity.
I think where this stuff becomes a problem is (i) where people harass and intimidate individual opposing fans outside the stadium (like at Ohio State), or (ii) where people lose their cool and resort to physical violence (like Ohio State fans). Obviously the massive amounts of alcohol consumed at and around football games does not help the situation. Thousands of people shouting "you suck" at the opposing team, during the game, is really not part of the problem.
I don't like the chant, and with my "Michigan arrogance" I do think it is beneath us, but it isn't going anywhere.
I'm also not a fan of booing the opposing team, their band, or whatever. I've always thought it's better to say, "Hey, thanks for coming out here to play." And, in good times, "Thanks for coming out here to get beat like a gong."
I hate the chant because it's not funny and it's supremely unimaginative. I'm not so sure we're stuck with it, mostly because I've never met anyone who's actually liked the chant. If they made an announcement during a game saying that the chant wasn't funny and we could do better and announced a competition for a better chant, I'm pretty sure "you suck" would die a quick death.
Giving this thread a quick scan of the about 30-50 commenters, you're the first to express support. The point is few people passionately support the chant. Replacing it would probably be fairly painless.
First of all, Wolverine318 doesn't know the difference between 'meeting people' and 'being on a message board.' But that's a story for another day.
But yeah - you nailed it. The only thing offensive about You Suck is how blandly stupid it is. I know 2-3 syllables ain't much to work with, but surely some of the Yost mojo could be borrowed to come up with something a bit more unique.
- come together; "I'll probably see you at the meeting"; "How nice to see you again!"
- get together socially or for a specific purpose
- converge: be adjacent or come together; "The lines converge at this point"
- fill or meet a want or need
- satisfy a condition or restriction; "Does this paper meet the requirements for the degree?"
- satisfy or fulfill; "meet a need"; "this job doesn't match my dreams"
- collect in one place; "We assembled in the church basement"; "Let's gather in the dining room"
- get to know; get acquainted with; "I met this really handsome guy at a bar last night!"; "we met in Singapore"
- meet by design; be present at the arrival of; "Can you meet me at the train station?"
- contend against an opponent in a sport, game, or battle; "Princeton plays Yale this weekend"; "Charlie likes to play Mary"
- experience as a reaction; "My proposal met with much opposition"
- suffer: undergo or suffer; "meet a violent death"; "suffer a terrible fate"
- touch: be in direct physical contact with; make contact; "The two buildings touch"; "Their hands touched"; "The wire must not contact the metal cover"; "The surfaces contact at this point"
- a meeting at which a number of athletic contests are held
- fitting: being precisely fitting and right; "it is only meet that she should be seated first"
But that won't change it. Sometimes it helps if a number of leaders speak to the issue. For instance, if Brandon, Carr, Martin, Rodriguez, Beilein, along with Denard, Brady, and Braylon all signed a PSA flier encouraging fans to stay classy and kill the "you suck" cheers, along with their ilk, it MIGHT make a bit of difference. Things like this change glacially.
We live in a free country. This is mostly good, but it means that everyone has the right to be a tacky, classless jerk, whether others like it or not. "You Suck!" is something like a guy wearing jorts and a jersey. You can't tell a fool much of anything.
The throwing of marshmallows on the field stopped almost immediately after the AD cracked down.
In this case, I'd just like the see the Daily propose something else for the students to chant.
GET OFF MY LAWN!
AN OUNCE OF PREVENTION IS WORTH A POUND OF CURE!
Meh...that particular chant doesn't really bother me.
But for God's Sake, could we stop booing the other team's band? That is pathetic.
Would certainly like to see "you suck" gone and hope someone can find a way, but booing the other teams band etc. is more offensive and really should stop immediately. I saw that coming Saturday and really hoped it wouldn't happen, but it did and it was ugly.
You are too nice. You probably don't even boo the refs at hockey games.
the FSU game from the early 90's.
the entire student section was chanting "F--- the Seminoles" to the FSU war chant, all while putting out our middle fingers and mocking the tomahawk arm action.
It was awesome.
Because they played it incessantly, and frankly, we were getting our asses kicked.
Apparently the OP has never been to Yost.......
So because we are Michigan, every single cheer has to be a brilliant, creative composition? I'm sorry, but no. We're allowed to have the occasional just plain angry, insulting cheer. This is football, not ballroom dance (no offense to our excellent ballroom team!).
The penalty box hockey chant is actually an example of pre-renaissance Alaskan free form haiku
Im totally with you. Every article I read about visiting teams fans, and all the people that I know that go to UM games (im in Ohio so a lot of buckeye fans that go up for the game) they all say what a great experiance they had and how all the UM fans they encountered treated them with respect.
So do I feel bad if we have one cheer where we say "you suck"? Hell no!
Do us all al favor and find something a little more important to cry about.
I think the generic argument against "you suck" is that the Michigan crowd should do 2 things:
1) Cheer for Michigan
2) If you insult another team, make it timely and clever (i.e. comedic). (See M Hockey crowd. There's a method to all of that madness, and it's a beautiful thing)
I'm all for being insulting in a crowd enviroment... in the spirit of arrogance.
As a four-year veteran of the Yost hockey crowd, there's nothing I appreciate more than the student section's timely and hilarious insults. However, you'll have to work pretty hard to convince me that chanting "ug-ly par-ents clap clap clapclapclap" is all that witty. Even the hockey crowd throws in some random jabs.
I like having a lot of creative cheers, and I like having a lot of pro-Michigan cheers, I'm just saying, there's nothing wrong with occasionally just insulting people. :)
Students: Please stop. You're better than that. You don't go to Maryland, you go to Michigan.
Not a rival, clap clap clap clap clap. Not a rival, clap clap clap clap clap.
This got out of hand quick. Between 8 people claiming it started their year (3 years later than it did) and Big Boutros killing someone with a cleverness trident, this had a lot going on.
To the OP: I talked to the student section and they're replacing it with "boo luck" to indicate favor is unwarranted and physical success is unrivaled. listen for it on the 18th. per your impending request to stop the 3rd down key jingle bc it is an element of class warfare.... we'll have to let it slide
I don't care how classless it is. It's a terrible cheer because it's boring and not clever at all.
It's not a "get off my lawn" situation. It's a "stop resorting to Michigan State level humor" situation. Yes, they say worse things at Yost, but they're much more clever.
The chant is fine. It just doesn't make sense when the other team goes for 4th down and converts it. That said I'd prefer if we changed "You suck" to "It's a trap", but I have no reason for that.
Why do you feel the need to ruin people's fun? It is pretty harmless.
Though, to be fair, I am usually the guy that adds "You fucking suck!" at the end.
1) It's not the "chop", it's a first down signal. The chop was coined by the Daily to motivate people to change to the claw. I shouldn't be surprised that some douche at the Daily was able to convince enough people that: chop bad, claw good. I remember people bringing signs to games to get rid of the "chop". Morons.
2) The claw is the weakest attempt at a student cheer or pseudo-tradition that I've ever seen. It is dumb. Plain and simple. It looks like people are three years old. It isn't intimidating, just completely pathetic.
3) Saying "you suck" is boring and unimaginative. We also say it regardless of the scoreboard. It takes away from Temptation in my opinion. We're already throwing the limp wristed claw, so we might as well tell each other that we suck for doing so.
I have trouble conveying just how awful the claw is in words. I think you put forth a solid effort here.
I'm right there with you on #2 and #3, but #1 is wrong. The original gesture was a closed fist, as though the D was putting the hammer down to the opponent. But a lot of students missed the memo and turned it into a chop. Calling it a first-down signal doesn't make sense; we do it after we've prevented the opponent from gaining a first down.
As for the first down, I think the idea was that it was for the referee's signal for Michigan once the change of possession takes place.
But I can assure that the memo, at least when I was in school, was for people to do the claw. This was a concerted campaign led by at least one yahoo at the Daily. Maybe it was supposed to change to a closed fist since that time - which would be a huge improvement - but the original change was from first down/chop to claw.
But this thread embarrasses me. Now it's trashy to tell someone they suck. Jesus Christ.
People who are saying it isn't clever need to get over themselves and/or actually be clever. And no, that doesn't count those super witty comebacks that take ten minutes to tell the story about.
you suck is kinda lame, no fellas? With all the great cheers hockey has we can't do better than you suck? And body slamming someone who comes on to say so? Whoa? Please, lord, let's not let this place jump the shark.
I love the claw idea, but it looks like a g*d-danged chop. I've been making fun of my FSU fan-friends for years for doing it, and I almost crapped myself when I saw M fans doing it last week.
We got some noise in the house, finally; let's get more creative with the fan noise and chants. This is Michigan!
is not the problem. We curse like sailors around my house, and encourage our daughter to do the same. But do it with pride! Let loose a VOLLEY of epithets, not just some cheap unison you suck. I mean, if 133,000 people put their mind to it they could LEVITATE the Big House--let's get creative. We are the people who invented the wave, remember? We've got standards; let's lower them with a little more dignity!
When I read this post.
YOU SUCK any more, the turrurists have truly won.
Normal rules of society go out the window when it comes to sports chants. Doesn't make it right, or even unfunny at times, just the way it is. Only distasteful to me when it's directed right at a college kid. Anything goes when it's to the whole team. Opposing team.
The questions your asking about the morality of a football chant inevitably lead to one side saying, "Grumblegrumblegrumble." And the other raising their cheap, red plastic cups and shouting "WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
1. Guess who is having more fun.
2. Guess who lives in the real world/modern era.
3. Guess who's voice is louder? (Intended as humor, not a vindication of the following.)
4. Your basing your morality on what exactly? Because I doubt you can logically prove your system of ethics is superior to mine. In fact, civilizations have been attempting this for thousands of years. All of them have failed before the almighty individual in the end. You will fall as well. I suggest you leave others to their own devices. It's the only way to not come off like a total DB. Because no one likes being told what to do. Especially when they pretentiously claim the moral high ground.