Ray Vinopal to start @ PSU?
This has been dropped on the premium boards. Apparently Vinopal to free safety in place of Cam Gordon, and Cam Gordon to replace the Carvin/Thomas Gordon spot at the spinner/safety position.
GO TO 14:07
Vinopal! Hope that the coaches see someting in him and are ready to unleash him on unsuspecting B10 offenses. Let's go Ray!!
October 24th, 2010 at 8:35 PM ^
Thanks for trying to tell me what my thought process is, but why don't you let me take care of that?
My point isn't that Vinopal shouldn't see the field. My point is that his ascension from 4th to 1st string might have more to do with the lack of other options rather than anything impressive he might have done.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:46 PM ^
But whose to say Vinopal would still be 4th string at this point in the season? I actually believe he has done something impressive in practice, otherwise you swap Carvin and Cam.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:57 PM ^
I'm not saying that Vinopal would necessarily still be fourth string. But I will say this: It's rare for a fourth stringer to ascend to first string without extenutating circumstances.
October 24th, 2010 at 9:05 PM ^
but is it really rare for a Freshman that doesn't enroll until late summer to emerge or at least move up the depth chart as the season and practice goes on?
October 24th, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^
In camp, it was: Vlad, Van Slyke, Gordon, Vinopal
<br>Vlad got hurt, Van Slyke got hurt, Cam came in and impressed. Van Slyke may be 1st string if available, but it seems clear Vlad left b/c Vinopal passed him on the depth chart. So an injury bumped him to 3rd string, but ability to 2nd. If he's passing Cam now, ability put him in the starting spot (albeit at a thin position)
<br>The 2 star thing means nothing to me, but the true freshman thing means everything. And the fact that this would probably mean the coaches are calling uncle on Cam's long term ability at the position. I'm hoping this is a bye week experiment
October 25th, 2010 at 1:51 AM ^
I'm almost positive Cam was penciled in at first on the FS depth chart from the spring. Not that it makes a terrific amount of difference...
October 24th, 2010 at 8:46 PM ^
That seems highly unlikely given that they aren't demoting Cam to get Vinopal on the field, but rather the guys at spur who have been competent.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:55 PM ^
I did a poll on my blog a couple weeks ago that asked the question:
What should Michigan do with Cam Gordon?
29% of voters said he should switch to Spur.
22% of voters said he should remain at FS.
I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly what the coaches have seen from Johnson, the Gordons, and Vinopal in practice, but it is entirely possible that the coaches see what Michigan fans have seen - and that is the natural ability of Cam Gordon but his poor fit at FS. Maybe the coaches think Vinopal will be a better FS than Cam, but they also think Cam would be a better linebacker than Thomas Gordon/Carvin Johnson.
October 24th, 2010 at 9:11 PM ^
Sure, but even if this is more about moving Gordon to linebacker, it's a vote of confidence from the coaches that they're willing to start Vinopal. We'll see if that confidence is justified or not.
October 24th, 2010 at 9:14 PM ^
I think this move is more about the inequality:
Vinopal at FS + C. Gordon at Spur > C. Gordon at FS + Carvin/T. Gordon at Spur.
FWIW, I think that Vinopal might be a more natural fit at FS than Cam, albeit with a lower ceiling. I think we've given up on finding that magic bullet at FS (which many people thought Cam would be) and trying to mitigate the general sucktitude.
October 25th, 2010 at 1:51 AM ^
position problem we have on the defensive side of the ball is with Kovacs. He is too good of a run support player to leave off the field. But he is not big enough to play LB and not fast enough to play CB or S in pass coverage. So, we have to come up with a "scheme" that gets him on the field, takes advantage of his strengths and tries to hide his weaknesses. It pains me to say it (cuz I like Kovacs), but I would rather see Vinopal and Cam (or MRob) in a two deep safety setup and play Demens, Mouton and Fitz at the LB positions against the "non-spread" teams left on the schedule (PSU, Wisky). My hope is that Kovacs puts on 20 or 30 lbs of muscle before next year so he can play one of the LB's positions and we don't have this issue of trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. I really think this would be a move that gets him in a place that really fits his abilities.
October 25th, 2010 at 1:41 AM ^
I would be more worried about his 4th string status if he wasn't a freshman, and summer enrolee, i think it was obvious that he was going to be at the bottom of the Depth Chart from day 1,IIRC there was some talking about Emilien leaving after being passed by RV, if i'm not wrong RV was on the travel team that went to South Bend.
I like the idea of having a FS that has played FS, even if it's at HS level and i think the bar is not that high for him being a capable player at that position, only time will tell i guess.
October 25th, 2010 at 7:59 AM ^
to all our D woes, and yes he may even play poorly. I'm optimistic though. I know it was just one play, but his break on the BG pass for INT was a thing of beauty. Assuming he has learned his responsibilities at the position, having a ball hawk with speed could be a huge plus for us back there. I mean really, a safety has to be able to run a guy down occasionally to save a TD (especially with our D), and Cam just couldn't do it.
Also agree Cam tries to line up every hit for obliteration, like a prize fighter measuring for the haymaker. We need sure tackling, not highlight reels. Too many of our highlights go the wrong way.
October 25th, 2010 at 9:13 AM ^
To be fair, the depth charts at the beginning of the season were established mostly on estimated potential. C. Gordon started playing defense in the spring, Vlad was supposed to be improving from his injury, and the players playing at the spur were all untested, too. It is not like this was a depth chart full of third year starters or anything. Maybe Vinopal has just been better than expected and, like Demens, it took a while for the coaches to make up their mind to make a change. Although, I will admit, I feel that this is more of a move to get C. Gordon to spur than it is a move to get Vinopal to safety.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:09 PM ^
Agreed with the few commenters that support a potential Vinopal start at FS.
My opinions range on the positive side of things. If he can come in an show some spark, then great! And if this happens, I'm sure he'll be on a short leash so the worst he can do is give up 7 points. Considering we've seen that happen from the incumbent starter at times, I don't see this being that big of a deal. Give him a chance, and see what happens. They can always go back to Gordon at the position if he's clearly overmatched.
In conclusion, if true, very awesome for Ray!!! I wish him the best of luck and Go Blue. And let me reiterate, that he was recruited to play FS. So he already has a leg-up on some other players who could be in that position.
P.S. Lighten up Magnus.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:09 PM ^
this is a HUGE endorsement for what Vinopal has shown in practice. If anything, I expected Carvin to swap positions with Cam. This must mean Vinopal has the speed RR has said the D needs.
October 25th, 2010 at 8:54 AM ^
Or to be more accurate, it probably isn't. This is an attempt to fix something that has sucked, It's an experiment, one that may, or may not, pay off. Do you think it would be happening if Cam had played well?
October 25th, 2010 at 10:10 AM ^
Obviously not but I don't think it's a total shot in the dark either.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
Does this mean Carvin can get a medical?
October 24th, 2010 at 9:37 PM ^
He played in Michigan's 7th game, i.e. the second half of the season. I believe the rules state you cannot get a medical redshirt if you play in the latter half of the season, no matter how debilitating the injury.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:19 PM ^
and getting him closer to the line of scrimmage, where I think he has a chance to be effective. He's done the best he could at FS, and the best we could expect given that he's a redshirt freshman who played WR last year. And we should actually have a *ton* of depth at the hybrid positions (Spur, Bandit) in the coming years with Cam moving down there.
That leaves one piece to the puzzle unsolved: FS. We're rootin' for you Ray!
October 24th, 2010 at 8:21 PM ^
Not to derail the Vinopal express, but last week was the bye week. Not that "premium"news is ever wrong, but I could see last week as a time to work on fundamentals and try some new things on D. Vinopal may have been running with the 1's, but they may have been in camp mode last week where guys are rotating in and trying new spots.
Another thing to think about is if Cam is the starter at Bandit who is Ray's back up?
Color me skeptical for now.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:21 PM ^
This is extremely exciting and scary all at once. This new knowledge will make this week seem twice as long as we wait with bated breath.
October 24th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^
Cam Gordon = Stevie Brown
October 24th, 2010 at 9:02 PM ^
UM should put Sheridan at FS and Navarre at SS. Death blow with Navarre roaming the secondary.
October 24th, 2010 at 9:16 PM ^
Who's that chode in your avatar pic?
October 24th, 2010 at 9:31 PM ^
Dudes, I know nothing 'bout this. At all.
Hopefully he brings the grit and acquits himself admirably.
What's the worst that could happen?
Then again, I gave a +1 to the Navarre/Sheridan safety posts....
October 24th, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^
October 24th, 2010 at 10:04 PM ^
Everyone wants to trash the players all the time and yet give Rodriguez four, five, six, or umpteen years to get this "bright" future going?
If Vinnopal stinks it up--is everyone going to turn on him also? I mean, because NOTHING is ever Poor Lil Richie Rod's fault, is it?
And yes. Right now, I'm a H8ter!
October 24th, 2010 at 10:10 PM ^
Can someone put the banhammer on this guy already
October 28th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
Yes. Or neg him on sight, for this comment he just posted (yesterday), a few hours after the kid died at ND:
October 24th, 2010 at 11:17 PM ^
Well, now we see what Tubgirl* evolved from.
*warning: if you are not familiar with the Tubgirl picture, do NOT Google it. Or use any other search engine to find it. Also, extremely NSFW.
October 24th, 2010 at 11:05 PM ^
There is only one man on the face of the earth who writes H8ter. Why the extra T, Sphincter von Belchenstein? You know eight has a T at the end, right?
October 25th, 2010 at 8:24 AM ^
Nice catch.
You scare me, Boutros.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:10 PM ^
When I read some posts suggesting Ray could not have improved so quickly I have to ask, "why not?" Hasn't he been practicing against highly recruited Big Ten players? Didn't Denard improve significantly between the end of last season and the Spring game?
It would be nice if we had someone that has "access" to players who could give us some incite as to what is developing in practices? Sort of what TomVH does with recruits.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^
Paging FormerWolv
October 24th, 2010 at 10:12 PM ^
We just need to find a second gritty safety, and we'll be awesome back there. Just like Iowa...
October 24th, 2010 at 10:29 PM ^
This seems hard to believe. Vinopal starting is one thing; the idea of Cam Gordon being moved and instantly being better at spur than Thomas Gordon and Carvin Johnson is another. It's intriguing, though.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
Name a former, undersized, Big Ten walk-on safety who's now starting in the NFL.
Vinopal = Said player's second coming?
October 25th, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
jim Leonhard!
October 25th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
Bob Sanders.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
Solely because of FS depth. Right now, Vinopal and Cam are the only 2 on the roster. If Cam moves then who backs up Vinopal? Is T.Gord or Carvin movin back?
October 24th, 2010 at 11:03 PM ^
If he gets hurt, Cam moves back and you reinsert T.Gordon / Carvin. Like reshuffling the O-Line
October 24th, 2010 at 11:13 PM ^
strategy since these are freshmen and the positions aren't all that similar.
October 24th, 2010 at 11:18 PM ^
It sucks and isn't a good solution, in general. But it just has to be better than the status quo. Chances of injury are slim enough--and our worst case scenario isn't that far below where we are now--that it might be the best decision if Vinopal's enough of an upgrade.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:52 PM ^
Ray Vinopal will turn into the second coming of Kovacs, without the try-out story.
Undersized white kid from Ohio in the secondary. Everyone "knows" he's not good enough to start, until he does and makes very few mistakes. Again, everyone "knows" one of the more athletic kids on the roster will pass him on the depth chart, except he plays such sound football that you really don't want that.
Kovacs with speed. I like it.
October 25th, 2010 at 6:30 AM ^
I don't mean to knock Kovacs, but at some point, Michigan has to put athletes on the field who have BOTH of these qualities:
a) Rarely make mistakes.
b) Have good athleticism.
Kovacs has been a great story, but I don't want a defense full of undersized guys with limited athleticism. That's not going to get us a Big Ten championship. So I'm hoping Ray Vinopal is better than the Second Coming of Jordan Kovacs.