Radio Account of the Hit on Morris?
I read on one of the comment threads that one of the Michigan radio commentators -- Brandstatter if memory serves -- had seen Nussmeier trying to get Morris out of the game after he suffered the shot to the head.
Can anyone confirm or deny that? Or better yet, post the audio? I suspect that an awful lot will hinge on the question of what Hoke knew and when he knew it. If it turns out that Nuss wanted Morris out and Hoke overruled him, that would make a huge difference.
September 28th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
Yeah I listened on the radio. Brandy said that Nussmeier tried to take him out but Morris waved him off. They didn't make a giant deal out of it though IIRC as I heard they did on the TV broadcast
September 28th, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
If they didn't get a good look at the hit, and they weren't watching continued replays of the hit, they probably weren't seeing much amiss. Many players take headshots and remain in the game and even return to the game none the worse for the wear. Travis Wilson, QB Utah, being a great example.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 28th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
It is asinine to take what I wrote about the radio crew and attribute that to the coaches.
As for Travis Wilson, I used him as an example because of the severity of the hit and the fact that HE RETURNED TO THE GAME after half time.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^
The play was ugly looking, but as Spielman pointed out, Wilson didn't take a direct shot in the head area by a player; it was him landing on his head and then scraping his face on the turf which was damaging.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=400547946
The nature of the hit on Morris was completely and utterly different.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
WTF?
That play happened with approx. 10 minutes to go in the second quarter. Wilson lay on the sidelines for a minute or two, and the Utah trainers were on him virtually immediately after the nature of his fall was evident, then he left the field, and didn't return until the beginning of the second half. That gave the Utah trainers and doctors more than a half-hour of time to assess his condition.
Go ahead and bring up Bryon Leftwich now. Somebody else tried to make that comparison too.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^
why don't you read what is actually written instead of making shit up to suit your righteous indignation. The point was....slowly now, that players do take head shots, most of which do not lead to concussions, and many times return to the game. Wilson was an example of that, you admit as much. So what was it you were complaining about?
September 28th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
Your premise is actually wrong. Doctors are now saying that most violent hits to the head do result in some level of concussion. Any concussion is dangerous to the long-term health of the player. This is why many state high school associations have changed their rules on how coaches are to deal with concussions, or even the symptoms of concussions. Players can no longer return to the field of play until several days after the event, and must have clearance from a doctor.
Go read this before you post about concussions. It will really help you out.
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA+ConFactSheet+coaches.pdf
September 28th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
yes, and the Utah staff immediately examined Wilson.
At what point did the Michigan training staff examine Morris after the hit on him? Was a timeout called so they could assess his condition, or was he allowed to stay in the game?
You're making the argument that what happened to Wilson and what happened to Morris—and the respective actions by the Utah and Michigan staff—were comparable. They're not.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
What does that have to do with the gross mismanagement of Morris not even being evaluated? Because, yes, players take shots to the head and still play in the game. That's not the issue. The issue is, he took a headshot, showed signs of possible concussion when he lurched over and had to be assissted to stay on his feet, was already severely hobbling on his left leg, and at no time did he get an official evaluation from the medical staff.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
They didn't mention much about the hit being helmet to helmet, but just that he was shaken up and looking really gimpy. And they expressed the same concerns and disbelief that Shane was still in there. When I heard about them trying to get Shane to come out, my impression of it at the time was that Shane was being insubordinate by refusing to come out of the game. They clearly said Nuss was trying to get him out, but Shane wouldn't go out.
And at that point, my thought was why in the hell don't you take a time out and get him out of the game? I mean, who's in charge here, the players or the coaches? If I tell you to come out, you come out.
The whole thing was shitty.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
The entire broadcast is HERE:
http://www.mgoblue.com/collegesportslive/?media=461927
At the 5hr. 23min mark is where the broadcast describes the ensuing events.
That's exactly what appened. Brandy says that Nuss is instructing Morris to go down/take a knee so they can get an injury time out (and presumably pull him), but then Morris waves him off.
Now, you can criticize Nuss there--he likely needed to be more assertive, call a real time-out, and then tall Morris to get his ass over to the sideline so Gardner has time to get out there.
But it's clear Nuss saw Morris go wobbly and instructed him to stop the game.
I have no idea where Hoke was, what/if there was any interaction between Hoke & Nuss at that time, etc.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^
Thanks!
September 28th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^
That's the part of this that's fireable to me. Everyone on that field -- including the refs -- sees that the game should be stopped and Shane should come out. And Hoke is just like, fuck it, let's go. How Hoke and none of his coaches can see any of that, blows my mind.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:26 PM ^
had an idea that something was quite amiss and allowed Morris to remain on the field. And people want Hoke fired and Nuss promoted to interim HC. I can only shake my head in disgust for the feeding frenzy that is ensuing.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
I personally find the whole thing horrible, but the part that has me out for blood is the fact he went back in.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^
At least the 2013-14 rules. I doubt it's changed.
On page FR-50: "Article 4. When timeouts are not exhausted, an official shall allow a charged timeout when requested by any player or head coach when the ball is dead."
September 28th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
If Nussmeier was guilty of not making the right decision, what is Hoke doing during all this? Does he have no responsibility?
And not everybody who's critical of Hoke wants Nuss to take over. I don't.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 6:08 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 28th, 2014 at 2:49 PM ^
Nothing would surprise me though, there was plenty worth arguing about.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^
It could certainly be the reason they were arguing, but it's all speculation at this point. With the way the season is going, there are a ton of things that they could've been arguing about, and this debacle of a game was merely a flashpoint.
I have no idea what Hoke saw or didn't see RE; the Morris debacle. I have no idea how much Hoke is or is not meddling in the Nuss' offensive scheme or playcalling. I have no idea as to which coach was pushing for Morris vs. Gardner or vice versa. I have no idea why Cleary was so sloppy he couldn't find his own helmet--thus forcing Hoke to decide between burning Speight's redshirt over one play or risking Morris again.
The one small, small silver lining in this enitre disaster is I'll be looking forward to reading John U. Bacon's follow-up book from "3 and Out" with the inside scoop of this whole thing once it's finally passed.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 2:44 PM ^
Well....
In this same game he left Morris in after several bad hits to his left leg. Bad enough that he seemed to lose nearly all of his mobility. Bad enough that even Gardner was getting warmed up because he figured he would be going in.
He left Funchess in after something clearly happend to his ankle in the ND game, despite being having basically given up trying to win the game based on the pace of the offense and the MASSIVE score differential.
Bellomy looked like a dead man walking when he had to relieve Denard in the Nebraska game. The kid was getting pounded and didn't seem to have a way to protect himself.
Is that enough?
September 28th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^
Couple plays before the hit to the head Morris got his leg rolled up on by a falling defender. He was limping horribly after that, and still left in the game.
It was 30-7 Minnesota lead. Take Morris out before he gets killed.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
Quoted from Wikipedia, because it was the easiest to search, but yes, continuing to play in his condition was a "big deal"..
"The initial injury may be a concussion, or it may be another, more severe, type of head trauma, such as cerebral contusion.[18] However, the first concussion need not be severe for the second impact to cause SIS.[19] Also, the second impact may be very minor, even a blow such as an impact to the chest that causes the head to jerk, thereby transmitting forces of acceleration to the brain.[20] Loss of consciousness during the second injury is not necessary for SIS to occur.[21][22] Both injuries may take place in the same game."
One more hit and Shane could have easily been severely injured in a way that could affect him now and later. Having torn my ACL twice, I would much rather tear my ACL than have an injury like that and second-impact syndrome in the future effecting my basic functions.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
Second Impact Syndrome is a very big deal. There have been high school football players that have died from it. The two hits don't even have to come close together. Even if they are a week apart, it can still kill you.
I mean, we have a world class medical facility. The fact that we don't have some of the best medical care for these players on the sidelines is infuriating. There should have been a doctor on Shane ASAP after he came out, and he should have immediately been given a concussion test. How the fuck does a school like Michigan not have their act together in that regard??
September 28th, 2014 at 3:07 PM ^
Hoke left Gardner in vs Ohio State with a broken foot.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 4:42 PM ^
during the live broadcast, and I do applaud Devin's toughness. Your reference confirms his competitiveness.
Personally, I love Devin Gardner. He is a home-grown, intelligent and gifted athlete. He should be enjoying the fruits of his labors as a senior quarterback at Michigan. I like Shane, also, but he is a sophomore. He needs to wait his turn.
Starting Shane, and keeping him in the game past the end of the first-half are egregious examples of ineptitude, imho, and the only question is, who is at fault.
Is it Hoke's fault? Nussmeier's fault? DB's fault?
This whole situation is ludicrously FUBAR'd. We have too much talent on this team to get embarrassed in Ann Arbor by a good, but athletically inferior, Minnesota team.
Devin Gardner gives this team the best opportunity to win -- week in, week out. Despite the turnovers.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:33 PM ^
but talk to anyone who was in a HMMWV in an IED blast. Concussions are no joke.
September 28th, 2014 at 2:44 PM ^
Just by attempting to decipher your post, it is very apparent you ARE the type who would rather remain in a game with a concussion than tear an ACL.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 4:17 PM ^
Would we all be so distraught and calling for Hoke's head if the exact same situation occured when we were undefeated? Personally, I don't think we would. Granted, I'm not saying Hoke, Nuss, etc. are off the hook. But, I do think we all making irrational, emotional comments that are rooted more in our frustration with losing that our frustration with what happened with the Morris situation. There are plenty of possible scenarios for what happened, some of which are understandable and others of which are not. Yet, we all seem to think this one incident is enough to call for a coaches job, that if it had not occured, we wouldn't be. I think we need to take a breath and let it play out. I will be curious to hear what Nuss has to say in his presser this week as he seems a little more open about his feelings and decision making process. But, I think we are blowing this incident out of proportion just a bit.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:43 PM ^
If we were undefeated, we wouldn't have a head coach who couldn't see that his starting QB could barely walk.
September 28th, 2014 at 6:03 PM ^
Sadly, it is not an isolated incident - the program has looked mismanaged at least all season, if not longer. I have no confidence that this coach is capable of taking the steps to ensure that doesn't happen again.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 28th, 2014 at 4:40 PM ^
I was at the game and unfortunately had a pretty clear view. It looked like Nussmeier was telling him to get down so they would get the injury timeout and Shane seemed to wave them off. This was after the semi-collapse into the lineman's arms. Hoke, on the other hand, just seemed to stand there. He looked utterly confused.
What I don't understand was sending Morris in when Gardner's helmet came off. Right as Shane ran onto the field Bellomy ran up with his helmet but got sent away. Also, they had timeouts. How do you not take one.
Also, even if Shane waved them off, Hoke, as the head coach, should've said "too bad" and pulled him regardless. Unless Hoke was staring at the ground or maybe daydreaming, there is no way he didn't see Shane struggling to walk sine the entire stadium saw it.
September 28th, 2014 at 9:41 PM ^