Quick question on clock time and reviews:

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October 21st, 2012 at 6:55 PM
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Drbogue
Joined: 07/22/2011
MGoPoints: 408
Quick question on clock time and reviews:

As you all probably remember (or watched again on BTN or DVR), the 4th quarter play where Denard stretches while levitating and gets the 1st down, the clock stops at 43 seconds. The ball is placed and the refs start the game clock. At 32 seconds, just before the hike, a review is called. When the ref states the review stands, the clock is not reset to 43 seconds, but remains at the 32 second mark. The ref then restarts the game clock and we lose an addition 4-5 seconds hiking the ball. What is the correct call here? Should the time be placed back on the clock or was this handled correctly? Although it ended up not hurting us, it certainly would've been important had we run out of time. The officials in the replay booth have the clock imprinted on their reviews, so it's not a question of knowing the clock time.

 

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October 21st, 2012 at 6:59 PM | I have seen this go both ways (Score:0 Flamebait)
October 21st, 2012 at 7:03 PM | I noticed this too. And I (Score:1 Overrated)
DKohn81
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Joined: 02/11/2012
MGoPoints: 708

I noticed this too. And I couldn't claim that MSU should be charged with a timeout for loosing their challenge, which would have resulted in a clock stoppage because the review came from the booth. It seems like a flawed rule.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:09 PM | MSU (Score:2 Normal)
IncrediblyBLUE
Joined: 03/26/2011
MGoPoints: 588

did not challenge that, the booth calls for the review in the B1G I believe.

Coach Hoke once told me that a moral victory is still a (expletive deleted) loss.

October 21st, 2012 at 9:24 PM | Not just the B1G. The booth (Score:3 Normal)
Canadian
Joined: 06/02/2012
MGoPoints: 270

Not just the B1G. The booth can review almost anything nation wide. Not a conference rule

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October 21st, 2012 at 7:04 PM | I believe that had the call (Score:4 Normal)
egrgoblue
Joined: 08/12/2012
MGoPoints: 7

I believe that had the call been reversed, the clock would have been reset. Given that it wasn't, I think it was correct to not change the clock.  Once they did restart the clock it probably did cost us an additional 3-4 seconds as we didn't snap the ball right away.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:19 PM | If anything, the clock (Score:2 Normal)
marti221
Joined: 04/21/2010
MGoPoints: 516

If anything, the clock shouldn't be reset if the call was reversed (because no first down = running clock). However we did get the first down, as called on the field, so the clock should stop. It didn't, so IMO, the clock should have been reset to when the play was blown dead (~43 sec). I have no idea why Hoke wasn't screaming at the ref after the time wasn't put back, I sure as hell was screaming at him (through the TV, of course).

October 21st, 2012 at 7:50 PM | But the clock did stop at (Score:2 Normal)
egrgoblue
Joined: 08/12/2012
MGoPoints: 7

But the clock did stop at :43. Watch the replay. Not for long, but clock stopped, chains were moving, and the ref started the clock going again. Quite quickly if you ask me but clock did stop.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:14 PM | Well (Score:3 Normal)
ppToilet
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Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 775

Looking at the rule book (Rule 12), it looks like if the call is reversed then the clock would be adjusted.

But, in Section 3, Article 5 it looks like the officials have the leeway to make a clock adjustment in this circumstance. What the officials did is only reset the play clock but not the game clock. Although I was really mad about this yesterday, it seems that it could go either way.

October 21st, 2012 at 10:03 PM | Looking At The Rule... (Score:4 Normal)
LSAClassOf2000
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Joined: 01/07/2011
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I read Rule 12 over a  few times, and it seems to me that you might be right here - they could have restored the time, but the way this is phrased, they don't necessarily need to do so.

We were awarded the first  down on the field, which would have stopped the clock. The chains were reset, and the referee, in accordance with procedure, signalled for time to begin again, and 11 seconds passed before the review was requested and the whistle sounded.

Now, what interests me in particular is the third statement in Article 5, Section 3, which says that they may - yes, may  - restore time in the fourth quarter if "either the score is tied or the team that will  next snap the ball is behind by eight points or fewer". As it happens, we didn't need the 11 seconds fortunately, but if I read that right, if I am referencing what you are, we could have had them if we met the criteria of 12-3-5. 

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October 22nd, 2012 at 6:29 AM | That's what I was looking at too at first (Score:1)
ppToilet
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But the more I read it, the more I thought the intention of that clause was for when it would cause the half to end (i.e. the last play of the either half). It is not written well.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:17 PM | It has nothing to do with the (Score:0 Overrated)
October 21st, 2012 at 7:41 PM | The clock DID stop at :43 for (Score:4 Normal)
egrgoblue
Joined: 08/12/2012
MGoPoints: 7

The clock DID stop at :43 for the first down. The chains were (kind of ) reset, and the ref started the clock. We lost 11 seconds at the line of scrimmage trying to get our next play off before the ref stopped it again for the review. It seems to me that refs this year are really starting the clock very quickly after first downs. I've noticed several times that the chains are not even reset and the clock gets rolling again.

October 21st, 2012 at 9:32 PM | From my understanding (Score:2)
Space Coyote
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Joined: 06/18/2009
MGoPoints: 4364

Chains no longer need to be placed before the clock moves. I think that rule change was made a few years back, though I could be wrong.

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October 21st, 2012 at 10:58 PM | The clock starts on the (Score:2 Normal)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

The clock starts on the official's ready-for-play signal. He'll usually wait for the chains to be set and ready for play, but there's no specific requirement and if he whistles early there's no recourse.

As far as I know there's never been any formal requirement that the official wait for the chains. What changed in 2006 was that the clock is restarted on the RFP signal--it used to be started on the ensuing snap.

October 21st, 2012 at 11:12 PM | No, it always started on the (Score:3 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4683

No, it always started on the RFP signal.  That's why teams have always had to spike the ball in last-minute situations after a first down gained inbounds (e.g., Washington State in the '98 Rose Bowl).

 

October 21st, 2012 at 11:18 PM | You are correct. (Score:2 Normal)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

My bad--what changed in 2006 was the starting of the clock prior to first down after a change of possession.

Not sure what I was thinking there.

October 21st, 2012 at 9:35 PM | In my defense, I was several (Score:1)
Phil Brinkma
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Joined: 06/24/2012
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In my defense, I was several beers deep at this point.

-- Hot ice!

October 21st, 2012 at 7:23 PM | Pretty sure they did it right (Score:4 Normal)
mfan_in_ohio
Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1904

Same thing happened at the end of the 3rd quarter in the UTL game last year, which is why the Hopkins fumble/Denard TD was the first play of the 4th quarter.

Weird that it makes it possible to run a minute or more off the clock. Imagine if a team is leading by 2 with the ball deep in their own end, 3rd down, and 1:15 left. They end up just short on the next play and will have to punt with about 30 seconds left, enough time for their opponents to get into FG range. Just before the snap for the punt, the booth wants to review the spot. The call is upheld, and the clock starts again with a new play clock. Time runs out without a play.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:31 PM | I think that scenario (Score:1)
ppToilet
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Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 775

is prevented by the rule I cited above, which makes specific allowances for resetting the clock if it would end either half. But, I suppose it could take the clock down to 1 second and essentially eliminate much chance for the opposing team.

<<edit>> But it's confusing and I could be wrong about it as the play under review is not ending the half.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:35 PM | my take (Score:1)
leftrare
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 544

My take on this ( I was in the house, which is I think, a perceptual advantage) is that the time taken before the official's TO is time spent; gone, can't get it back. What bugs me is that the ref started the clock AGAIN after he took his official TO. I can't say I know the rules stanza and verse, but that seems like an unfair jobbing of the team with the ball.
To summarize, the first 11 seconds gone is OK, but the next four seconds gone seems wrong.

October 21st, 2012 at 7:39 PM | I was going crazy over this (Score:3 Normal)
allintime23
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Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2381

I was going crazy over this at the game. I thought the officiating was bad yesterday. Calls that hurt both teams.

All in for some manball.

October 21st, 2012 at 8:02 PM | Appreciate the insight on this issue (Score:3 Normal)
SpyinColumbus
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Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1864

as it was driving us nuts and leading us to yell from Row 89. Thought time should have been put back on the clock and the ball should have been moved a ball length forward. Given a team is double penalized in this situation I think upon review the clock should be restored to the original time and then restarted after the official review. Maybe this will be reviewed in the off season.

Brady Hoke - High quality recruits one or two at a time.

October 21st, 2012 at 9:50 PM | Definitely remember yelling (Score:1)
Clown Sauce
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Joined: 07/12/2011
MGoPoints: 827

Definitely remember yelling at the TV to reset the clock to the correct time. I don't think the refs heard me :(

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October 22nd, 2012 at 2:17 AM | Time back on clock (Score:2)
FieldingBLUE
Joined: 08/28/2008
MGoPoints: 252

Was more maddening in first half when sparty got 20 seconds added back after a play was run. That never happens.

October 22nd, 2012 at 7:38 AM | The clock stopped for the (Score:2)
Seth
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Joined: 10/14/2008
MGoPoints: 48268

The clock stopped for the first down, but they moved the chains faster than I've ever seen, especially given that situation when it was such a close call. MSU, as was smart, was taking their time getting off whatever Michigan player so that more time could tick.

The review shouldn't affect the time taken off. The play as called was a first down and the clock technically stopped when they moved the chains. It's just that it only stopped for like 2 seconds.

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October 22nd, 2012 at 10:46 AM | I had a different time (Score:2)
Red is Blue
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Joined: 05/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1501

I had a different time keeping observation.  At one point, M was up at the line near ready to start a play, but the refs held them up to allow an MSU player that was slow to get up and in the backfield a chance to get off the field.  When the play was restarted, M did not get a fresh 25 seconds on the play clock.  Seems to me that the play clock should have been reset.

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October 23rd, 2012 at 8:36 PM | I am a Brady Hoke fan, but... (Score:0 Trolling)
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