Question for those who want RR gone
What kind of coach do you think would want to come to AA after RR was canned after only getting 2 years? Keeping in mind that he wasn't even judged by having his own players, but years w/ an extremely depleted offense and another w/ a depleted defense. Also remember that last time we had a coaching search there really wasn't any A-list candidates on the radar until WV lost to Pitt.
Now I am as frustrated as everyone else about how the season has gone and don't think that RR has performed particularly well. It is even more frustrating considering RR's reputation to do more w/ less talent. That said, he deserves to be judged on what he builds not what he inherited. Also a change now just sets back whoever the B- or C-list coach that we could get that much further.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:43 PM ^
five years.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:08 PM ^
5 years Dan? That is fking insane.
Just look at all the stats, all the games, all the losses since RR has taken over. Toss in possible NCAA violations and a team in constant turmoil and you want to give him an automatic free pass for 5 years of this shit? Come on.
To the OP: This is Michigan. If the search is done properly, then there are PLENTY of excellent coaches out there that would consider coming to Michigan. Men with character, quality and the ability to lead young men both on and off the field. Dont think for a second that Michigan is still not a prized job among college football coaches.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:29 AM ^
If there were, your fail at this level could have you relegated to that league. You could spend the next few years sparring with Patriot League teams' blog posters.
You could emerge from that hell convinced that talent matters, and that Alamo Bowls are not birthrights.
Or maybe you'd be just as thick as you are today. We'll never know, because counterfactual history is a joke.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:45 AM ^
Grow up. This is precisely THE forum to opine.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:48 PM ^
No, results matter because at some point we need to judge RR based on what HE has done at Michigan with the talent he has available. A good coach takes walk-ons and makes them into all-Americans and RR hasn't done that!!! He must go!!
At some point, a line needs to be drawn. That line was drawn authoritatively and decisively by the fanbase precisely after the Penn St. game 2 weeks ago. He is 0-2 since then, therefore, he needs to go.
We fire RR, it will make everything better and our walk-ons will suddenly be awesome in year 1 of the Hoke era next season, I gurantee it.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
I know! When you can hire a coach with two winning records on his resume (one being 7-6) from the MAC, and who is struggling at San Diego St., you have to do it! And yeah, good coaches always turn teams of cast-offs and misanthropes into champions - heck, Rick Moranis did it in Little Giants, and those kids were horrible! One of them even had glasses!
The fans didn't put a line in the sand after the PSU game - overreactive fairweather "fans" who cannot read a depth chart or only consider wins-losses in determining whether a team is good or bad are the only ones calling for RR's head. This season has been a disappointment, and RR deserves some blame for it. But just because people are angry does not mean there is an easy culprit. When this team won under Bo/Moeller/Carr, it was because the recruiting was good, the schemes were solid, the players were developed, etc. Right now, RR has a working offensive scheme with young recruits and a defense struggling because of the lack of blue-chip talent from the earlier coaching staff and no continuity.
I'm not making excuses; if this is happening next year and the team is struggling to beat teams like Illinois and Purdue, then RR definitely should feel the heat. But right now, this team's struggles are due to a myriad of factors, some of which well beyond the current regime's control.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:51 PM ^
"[Fairweather Fans] only consider wins-losses in determining whether a team is good or bad."
What else should be considered?
I do not want to see RR fired any time soon. I do want to see Michigan compete for the Big Ten very soon. The sad fact is that these desires may be mutually exclusive.
The tenents of football are thus:
A - a good scheme can make up for lack of talent
B - talented atheletes can make up for lack of scheme
C - a good coach will motivate players to overachieve as a team
Carr was evidence of B and C but did not benefit from A. RR was supposed to have A and C coming into the job, then benefit from B as well because this is Michigan. So far RR has not shown A, B, or C.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:57 PM ^
"What else should be considered?"
"The tenents of football are thus:
A - a good scheme can make up for lack of talent
B - talented athletes can make up for lack of scheme
C - a good coach will motivate players to overachieve as a team"
You've answered your own question. The real question is why are we losing? (What can we do to change things and start winning?)
a- it does take time to implement the 'good scheme'.
Considering Offensive scheme-
M's starting QB's: in '08 Threatt/Sheridan and '09 a true freshman in '09, the offensive scheme has taken longer to implement. Plus the offensive line had to be rebuilt and wr core replenished.
Considering Defensive scheme- 3 DC's in 3 years. would create issues regarding good schemes.
B- there is a major talent issue on D. Also, much of the talent on O is young/developing.
It's not that RR hasn't made mistakes. He has. It's simply a horrid confluence of factors. Any coach would need time to clear up this mess.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:47 PM ^
You have to be fucking kidding me! Brady Hoke would bring back Mike Debord as offensive coordinator. We could look forward to having no talent and a crappy offense.
The Hoke era? Now I've heard it all.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:00 PM ^
re-calibrate it. ;-)
November 8th, 2009 at 1:14 AM ^
With the amount crazy ass stuff people have been saying, the sarcasm detector was out of whack!
November 7th, 2009 at 7:49 PM ^
He'll get more time, but days like today make me want to fall asleep until we get better. To answer your first question I'm pretty good at running the spread on my 360...
November 7th, 2009 at 7:49 PM ^
Ya and also what coach would want to come here knowing not only do you have to win, but you have to be a Michigan man or the Freep and the old guard here at Michigan will try to bury you. I'm alot less sold on RR right now and how can you not be? But I agree our best bet is to ride this thing out. The offense has came around this year. But RR needs to fix the D or that could be his downfall.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:49 PM ^
I have another question for anyone who wants RR fired:
Have you tried using a shoehorn to pry your head out of your ass?
November 7th, 2009 at 7:53 PM ^
HAHAHAHA!!!
Best. Post. Ever.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:50 PM ^
but why the f&$% don't you kick the field go with 4:40 left? You're down by 8 and have 4th and 10??? This was the first loss that I place squarely on the shoulders of RR.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:53 PM ^
that he thought he had to go for it because the D sucks and can't be counted on to get a stop.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:58 PM ^
he said exactly that in the press conference
November 7th, 2009 at 8:44 PM ^
I was mad when we had a 4th and 2 around our own 35 and didn't go for it earlier in the 4th quarter because our defense couldn't stop Huron High School at that point. Which of course they quickly proved me wrong after a 63 yard punt by the emperor. So, what the hell do I know.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:12 PM ^
What gives me a slimmer of hope for the future is that the D has shown it's capable of the occasional good play. The first half against Illinois, the D-line was getting pressure and was shutting them down. Then it all collapsed. But it reminds me of the offense last year; the O would have the occasional good drive mixed in with endless three-and-outs. Now, the O is somewhat decent. Hopefully the D can make a similar improvement next year.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:08 AM ^
ya know what. forget it. the fact that you are plus 20 proves how stupid the mgoblog pointsystem is.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
Probably because it was a one possession game and you couldn't count on the D to get the ball back with enough time left to have another shot.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:15 AM ^
We already missed an extra point and a field goal attempt in the 2nd half, so making a 40 yard field goal was no gimmie. Also, no guarantee that we would have stopped Purdue since they would have started around our 30 or better given how they were returning kicks. Would anyone have felt better if we had lost the game 38-33?
November 7th, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
I fail to understand why this gent's post is being negbanged while similar, stronger sentiments in other contemporaneous posts and diaries are being accepted and co-signed:
Third, RichRod was wrong not to kick the field goal on 4th and 10. And not in hindsight - it was wrong no matter the result. Hopefully he learns from that mistake and won't do it again.
Failing to kick the 37 yd FG today with 4:30 to play (what turned out to be the Brown lateral) and all 3 timeouts, instead opting to go for it on 4th and 10, is inexcusable.
My point is this - if you are not currently re-examining every a priori notion you had about RR being a great coach and being somebody who was going to be good for UM, then you are just an apologist.Nevertheless, my initial reaction to this post was, this is just the first?
November 7th, 2009 at 8:58 PM ^
If only Coach Mo hadn't gotten so drunk.
True dat
November 8th, 2009 at 2:35 AM ^
I actually found myself wondering the other day where the Michigan program would be if that debacle had not happened. I feel pretty certain the Lloyd Carr era never would have happened, for better or worse. Mo probably would've retired about 4 or 5 years earlier than Lloyd did. Where would we be? Who would we have? Ahhhh, daydreams.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:09 PM ^
This was the first loss that I place squarely on the shoulders of RR.It's probably more accurate to place the blame squarely on the defense that allowed about 500 yards of offense to Purdue.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:50 PM ^
now we might be able to get Brady Hoke!
I also hear that Mike Debord is available.
In all seriousness, in terms of overall resume we would not get an upgrade, like you said no way an established coach would leave after the last got only 2 years.
Don't want to become the graveyard of coaches.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:56 PM ^
I doubt, though, that other coaches would see a RR firing as (potentially) bad for them. Most of those guys have pretty sizable egos. I can well imagine that each of them would think they are the better coach anyway, and what happened to Rich Rod was a good deal his own fault. Much like the sentiments I've read on this very board.
Remember: RR himself thought he could take "any player" and spin him into gold with the scheme he brought. What coach worth a damn doesn't believe the same?
November 7th, 2009 at 8:04 PM ^
I have to agree with you here. In the CRAZY scenario that RR get's fired, you offer Brian Kelly a big fat Big 11 contract, I have to be inclined to think he jumps. It's exactly the same, but I would have to imagine Nick Saban has a rep for jumping ship, but look at how happy Alabama was to hire him.
I think RR is a very respected coach and would land quazi-safely (be it in the MAC or WAC) and it would be written off as a wrong fit kind of deal much like ND. How many coaches have they been through trying to find a replacement for Holtz? 3? I doubt Charlie Weis is the end game.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
So we would be getting a coach experiencing great success in the Big East who would step right in and run a dynamic offense that would shred the rest or the Big 10. Hey, that sounds familiar.
/sarcasm
Kelly is a nice coach, and I like what he is doing at Cincinnati. At this point, though, RR needs to be given enough time to really see if this will work.
I know it is hard to sometimes see this when you look at the scores, but this team has progressed, at least offensively, since last year.
Total Offense last year, the team was 109th in the nation; right now, they sit at 39th, and that is with a true freshman signal caller and some pedestrian wide receivers. The big complaint last year was that the offense looked lost out there because (a) the players were not a good fit, and (b) they didn't understand the offense. While I doubt the defense will make such a dramatic jump next year (if it does, hello Big 10 title!), but at least one more year under GERG will help with continuity. As for better players, that might take longer. But I really think that even with mediocre players and a coherent system, the defense should make small strides next year. Honestly, a mid-60's defense means they give up around 25 pts/game. If that was the case this year, this team would have won every game except Illinois and PSU (and I suspect that Illinois would not have gotten so out of hand).
November 8th, 2009 at 12:48 AM ^
Every time the subject comes up, I post something similar. No one has yet explained to me why Kelly is a safe bet to have more success in the same time period than RichRod.
I'm no football guru, so this is a genuine question on my part. I know most people posting HIRE BRIAN KELLY!!111 are also not football gurus, but perhaps someone who knows what they're talking about could shed some light on the subject?
November 8th, 2009 at 3:37 AM ^
The reason no one's explained why Kelly would be preferable to RR is that there is no explanation.
We're losing, people like to bitch, RR is an easy target, and Kelly is hot right now, thus, the fawning over Kelly. That's the explanation.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:17 PM ^
you want rich rod gone right now? ridiculous. bill belichek couldn't win the mountain west with this defense. at the beginning of the season, even the greatest of homers would not have predicted that we would have the highest powered offense in the big 10. here we are. give it time.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:48 PM ^
to recall that at the time M was doing their coaching search to replace Lloyd, there was some issue regarding Brian Kelly and some racist remarks he had made regarding some football players. At that point, he seemed to drop out of the running.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:35 PM ^
How many coaches have they been through trying to find a replacement for Holtz? 3? I doubt Charlie Weis is the end game.
I shuddered when I read this.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:24 PM ^
We don't have to look far to see how the mighty have fallen because of their lack of patience and poor selections for a head coach:
Washington..nice little record since the mid 1990's when Don James left
Nebraska - Tommy Boy left, it went to Solich, Callahan to Pelini
Notre Dame-Holtz to Davies to Willingham to Weis
Miami - Butch Davis, to Cocker to Shannon
USC - Tollner, Smith, Robinson (again),Paul Hackett
Alabama...they had freaking brutal streach: Dubose, Price, Shula and now Saban (almost Rich Rod).
I don't think I need to go on...I could if you would like. Think of the coaches listed above except for Robinson, Smith and Willingham (though he had a short tenure as a head coach at Stanford) they were all assistance...poor choices. And other than Alabama and USC...these teams still don't know if they have found the "right guy"!
Rich Rod has a very good coaching record, he has build and rebuilt programs...given the time he will bring Michigan to prominence once again. He needs more than one recruiting class and 24 games people.
We fire Rich Rod now, we will not be good for a long time. I know why the divorce rate in this country is so freaking high...every other women and coach looks good when the times rough. We want the good ole days back...well other than 1997, Michigan football wasn't as pretty as it seems it is now.
And to say Rich Rod would only get a job in the WAC or MAC is a joke...he would get a job in the ACC or SEC very quickly. I live in the ATL...they talk about him down here quite a bit and regard him highly! There's a couple teams who would love to have him now!
November 8th, 2009 at 1:11 AM ^
A-men.
I live in SEC country, and I have to say that when the trash-talking is over, the fans here generally think quite highly of our coach and our players (well, some of them, esp. Forcier).
I really, really think that some of the trouble Big Ten fans are having with Rodriguez is that he doesn't fit the 'mold' of a traditional Big Ten coach. I think some of it's classist and some of it is just a lower tolerance for quirkiness than they have in other conferences.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:13 AM ^
your awesome story about all the sec friends you have (since you live in the south) who respect our the direction of our program really has me believing in rr. thank you.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:42 AM ^
Wow!! Excellent first post. Welcome to MGoBoard! =)
November 7th, 2009 at 8:18 PM ^
players into silver already and 90% of them are underclassmen. I definitely have no worries about the offense, huge strides compared to last year.
The defense though is going to give me a stroke.
I hope they show Mouton the tape of the play in the 4th where he actually stayed home instead of biting, he had the QB dead to rights.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:39 PM ^
that the offense it greatly improved after last year and will continue to make great strides going forward. As you suggest though, the defense is another matter. The defense needs some serious building up. To be fair though, the talent and experience void on defense will take at least two years to construct. Greg Robinson deserves at least two more years after this year. If he can show progress in those two years (and I think he can) then M should be OK.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:07 PM ^
The players need to stick with one Scheme/Coach for for at least another year, if same time next year hasn't improved then consider the change. With Graham and Brown gone and Warren??? The new DC would not have the best Defensive players on the team. With Greg the players left would know the plays and positions which is a big plus in covering for that loss.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:08 PM ^
Seriously? New facilities, Big Money, Big Alumni Base, and Blimpy's for life?
Sheesh. If a thing is crap, it's crap. I'd say after year three of this shit, he's got to go if it isn't markedly better.
You DO have the thing that "Rich does less with more"--the problem with that myth is that he DIDN'T do "less with more"--he had equal or better talent at WVU when compared with the other teams in that conference.
And in the "life ain't fair" department: We've been laughing at guys like Charlie Weis, Mark Dantonio,and whomever else we feel superior to, but we want our sweet lil Richie to get a free pass for three years. Sorry.
If he was so great during the 4-0 start, he is shit during the 1-5 skidmark.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to answer your question.
First, you can him four minutes after the OSU ass reeming. Second, you ANNOUNCE a drawn out, well thought out process during which many candidates will be interviewed. In other words, you don't panic, ignore a search committee, offer the job to the first guy you talk to (Schiano), toy around with the idea of Ferentz or Miles, and then run off and hire a guy because he did really good at one school and his agent calls you.
And then you don't limit your search to, well, NO-FUCKING-BODY ELSE!
You really think the super egos out there would not take this job? It's one man past who many consider a legend, and there is a mess right now that ANYBODY might look good when compared to.
Holy shit--if you conduct a legitimate coaching search and really make it look like you at least halfway know what you are doing, it will attract many top candidates.
And right now--well, if you want to go to sleep at night, hoping you'll wake up tomorrow (in 2017 or whenever) and Michigan will be some sort of national power under The Mighty Godriguez, well, that is a serious leap of faith that just isn't warranted if you axe me.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
The only way to attract top candidates is to throw $$$$$ at him. This is the same discussion that we all had in 2007 when it was pointed out why the Meyers/Stoops/Sabans of the world were not going to come to AA - because they were already in a better situation than what they would inherit in AA. So, to get them you are going to have to pay an obscene amounts of money. In this state, in this economy, there is no way that happens. So what are you left w/? More B- & C-list candidates that don't even have the track record RR has.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:14 AM ^
are we paying rr again?
the better question is how much money hes earned per victory hes been here
November 7th, 2009 at 8:31 PM ^
WVU had equal or better talent than Georgia and Oklahoma? No way.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:38 PM ^
Oh, I sing The Anomaly Song with joy as I tap dance around the lamposts on the street while it rains and I'm in love with Rich Rodriguez!
We LOVE our two-game stroybook called The Mighty Godriguez Does Less With More!
Oh, it's so sweet here in fairy land, where someday, somwhere Over the rainbow, waaaaayyyy upppp higgggghhhhh
Other teams with new coaches win games
And all I can do is axe WHY????
November 7th, 2009 at 8:44 PM ^
You do, however, have a beautiful voice.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:07 PM ^
And a +1 for doing so!