Question - Deep Safety
So RR said for the most part that deep safety is his biggest concern in the secondary and it may be a position in which true freshman can contribute.
Who are all the candidates to play this position? (even the true freshmen)
Is JT Turner a candidate for deep safety? Or would he fit more of the Cam Gordon safety position? Why is the coaching staff reluctant to turn Turner into a safety? (I'm assuming depth at CB)
What are some creative solutions to the deep safety postion? I.E. Could Woolfolk go back?
Interested to hear the opinions out there.
In the 2010 football preview of The Wolverine, they had Cam Gordon listed as the starting free saftey, with Vlad backing him up. Tony Gibson said in an interview that he thought JT Turner could be a VERY GOOD corner. I don't think we'll really know until Opening Day who the starting Deep Saftey will be.
seems reluctant to even acknowledge Turner's existence. Not a very good sign, unless he is some sort of Secret Weapon X they will spring upon unsuspecting offenses.
Carvin Johnson could contribute as a true freshmen at safety. The guy is the real deal.
If Carvin Johnson is anywhere near as good in college as he looks on his tape he MIGHT start over Kovacs this season. A true Killa
How do you know Carvin Johnson is the real deal? Do we have any Michigan practice reports on him? Again, serious question because I was looking forward to him making an impact as a true freshman, based solely on his HS tapes.
anyone will know if he is the real deal until we see him play in a college game. We will know more once fall camp starts, of course.
But to answer your question, there have been some rumblings that I read mostly on Scout that he is much faster than previously thought and that he arrived on campus in great physical condition. He was one of very few freshman to be put in an accelerated work out program with Barwis... meaning they expect him to compete to be in the 2 deep.
So nothing very concrete at this point. But I do think he has the potential to surprise some people this year. It may have more to do with the depth chart as opposed to his physical ability.
prays for the Detroit Rions. If he can read the reague in touchdown receptions in 2008, he can pray free safety all he wants.
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:30 PM ^
You win the thread.
Every other DB besides like Woolfork, Floyd, Christian, and Talbott are up for playing deep safety. Could be like Vlad or Turner back there (wouldn't mind seeing a young WR take a shot at it).
like Woolfork
Woolfolk.
wouldn't mind seeing a young WR take a shot at it
Uhh, this is exactly what we're going to see. Cam Gordon is (well, was) a young wide receiver who is going to take a shot at it.
Cottonfork, Linenspoon, who ever it takes to get the job done.
Plasticspork appears to be the most versatile. Perhaps we can use him as a two-way threat.
But he always cracks under the pressure of a big, tough, beefy line.
He will be polished up after some time in the gym with Barwis, I think he will shine in his new position.
(wouldn't mind seeing a young WR take a shot at it).
And where is this young wide receiver going to come from? Jerald Robinson is going to play at WR this year, and you could time Jeremy Jackson's 40 with a sun dial. Ricardo Miller can't play safety. DJ Williamson can't play safety.
Woolfolk needs to stay at corner for now; I am hoping Cam steps up as our deep safety but he definitely won't start. I am guessing Vlad will start at deep safety and then Cam will get some looks periodically until he is ready. Turner will stay at corner.
Cam steps up as our deep safety but he definitely won't start.Not trying to be a dick, but do you have some kind of insider info? I think Cam starts but if you know something I don't I'd like to know.
That they are wary of giving Gordon the starting job when he hasn't played in a game yet. That could be what he is referring to. Maybe he will see some playing time coming off the bench before he proves himself worthy of the starting role.
Okay thanks.
...in what game has Vlad played deep safety?
Gordon ran with the 1s in spring ball; Vlad, with the 2s. Since neither has played a game yet at deep safety, since Gordon was with the 1s in spring, and since all players and coaches interviewed have loved what Gordon has done at deep safety, I believe you are jumping to conclusions regarding Rodriguez's statement today.
in what game has Vlad played deep safety?
Delaware State.
not scrimmage.
My source was strictly RR. He mentioned this today:
Cameron Gordon hasn't played in a game yet, so they're hesitant to anoint him before he plays. He was one of the best players on the whole team this spring, however. True freshmen might have an opportunity to contribute at safety.
was saying that he was hesitant to call him one of their best players or a star on defense and obviously he is not going to name the starter before fall camp starts.
But by no means, did he say that he was hesitant to start Cam Gordon because he is a freshman. We are going to have people playing in the secondary with very little experience whether it be a RS Freshman, Sophmore, or True Freshman.
We are going to have people playing in the secondary with very little experience whether it be a RS Freshman, Sophmore, or True Freshman.
Alright... well see ya later!
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:33 PM ^
I don't see this referring to starting at all. I see it more of anointing him as one of the best (which Spring practice showed) players on the team.
I don't think RR was referring the the deep safety positions, but more of the spur/bandit position. Gordon seems to have the free safety spot nailed down with Emilien behind him.
For spur/bandit, I'd assume Kovacs is up there for one of the spots but not necessarily. Lump in Simmons, T.Jones, Turner (Probably) and maybe M.Robinson and Furman from the true freshmen. Have a feeling I'm missing someone obvious to include in here as well.
Kovacs will be the starter at the bandit position. He was a freshman All American, no one is taking his place.
If memory serves -- and it often doesn't -- this was the final spring depth chart:
FS -- C. Gordon, Emelin
Spur -- T. Gordon, Simmons
Bandit -- Kovacs, T. Jones
Which probably isn't worth much now. Bring on the freshman onslaught!
Part of me wants to see Furman start at Spur, Christian at CB, and M. Robinson at Bandit from the first week of the season and start 13 games.
The other part of me knows that is a pipe dream and prays that Kovacs improves his pass coverage, T. Gordon is a super-sleeper, and JT Floyd is actually as greatly improved as the buzz indicates.
Either way, the wanting, praying, and hoping is going to continue until 3:30 on 9/4/10 and probably last throughout the season.
Hey, at least the front 6 and Woolfolk are settled in. That's assuming Big Will is ready, and the Ezeh and Mouton regain their ............. Oh, Jesus Make It Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:35 PM ^
Kovacs' crappy pass coverage had more to do with him playing the wrong position than with his lack of ability. The dude was a stud when he was playing in the box (which he will be this year).
I like Cam Gordon at FS and Kovacs at Bandit. Rich Rod did mention Mike Williams in his press conference FWIW. I just hope the true freshman safety competition he was referring to was for the spur position cuz if Mike Williams starts, tight ends will routinely be getting 100+ yards against us.
Your memory serves you correctly.
...yeah you are right RR said the "safety position" and some of the mods on another site said it was deep, but you are right it could be any of the safety positions.
This will be a really interesting position to watch during the year.
Remember, there are three safety positions. The first is inhabited by Cam Gordon, whom RR mentioned in his (RR's) response to the same question:
We mentioned Cam Gordon, who has not played yet. So always a little hesitant to anoint someone as, hey, this guy's going to be a player until they actually do it in games. But we feel really good about Cam Gordon his role in the secondary.
He then hyped up J.T. Floyd for a breath, which: okay, we know Floyd plays hard and smart and that he can get outrun by Indiana running backs and is thus limited but RR didn't say that. Then he moved on to this:
And the safety position, it's kind of wide open. That's the one position where we may have a few freshmen, true freshmen, have an opportunity to contribute. And that's a little scary to say that.
But we really feel confident in the guys we signed that they're smart guys, they're tough guys. If they can learn quickly in camp, they may be able to help us in the secondary.
I think it's pretty obvious that Rodriguez is talking about Spur/Spinner* and Bandit**, which in spring were held down, respectively, by Jordan Kovacs and Thomas Gordon. For those scoring at home, that's a redshirt sophomore student body walk-on, and a not-hyped redshirt freshman.
When he says "a few freshmen, true freshmen," he is speaking of Marvin Robinson and Josh Furman, both highly regarded and college-ready linebacker/safety tweener types who were among the top three players in our 2010 defensive recruiting class.***
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* best to call it "strong safety" even though it's a weakside position.
** What Stevie Brown played last year.
*** The third is Cullen Christian, who by year's end my also be starting.
I think you have Kovacs and Gordon flipped though. Kovacs is at Bandit, Gordon at Spur
I am going to get those two confused forever.
GERG told us that one likes his meat raw while the other gets his cooked, so I figured the guy eating Carpaccio and Steak Tartare was the more slight, refined position than the guy ordering Rib-Eye and Barbecue Beef.
GERG told us that one likes his meat raw while the other gets his cooked,
That was actually Jeff Casteel who said that, if memory serves me correctly.
also throw Carvin Johnson in there with Marvin Robinson and Josh Furman as a true freshman candidate to have a chance to crack the two deep at various Safety positions whether it be Bandit, Spur or even Deep.
Marvin Robinson, Cullen Christian, Carvin Johnson, Jibreel Black, and possibly Josh Furman were all reportedly the only freshman to be extended invites into Barwis' main work out group
You're right about the first four, but Josh Furman shouldn't be included in that group. He's got a lot of work to do if he wants to play safety at the next level. At best, we should expect to see him sprinting downfield on kickoff coverage.
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
potential to be an absolute beast this year on Special Teams duty though.
Picturing him sprinting downfield on kickoff coverage with his dreads flapping in the wind gets me a little bit pumped up. I think he is probably still a little raw to expect him to contribute at the Spur this year, although you never know. However, his straight line speed and athleticism is perfect for special teams.
In Casteel's West Virginia 3-3-5 the Bandit is more like a true safety (strong) and the Spur is the Stevie Brown hybrid LB/Safety with less deep coverage responsibility. The Deep/Free Safety is self-explanatory (this year).
Am I in the wrong to still consider Kovacs a walk-on and hope he does not play very much?
be the starting box safety until someone beat him out. As of now, it appears that no one seriously challenged Kovacs for the starting spot. Kovacs has been very good against the run and can tackle which is change from previous defensive players from the past few years where we keep seeing them missing tackles after takckles. The only deficiencies that he showed is coverage skills and his speed.
Is that so bad that a walk on is playing? I mean is it bad that Brian Griese started at QB even though he was a walk on? Or Owen Schmitt playing at FB when he's a walk on. Jim Leonhard, a FS for Wisconsin a few years ago is a walk on? Why can't Kovacs be that guy?
He can, and maybe will. but you answered your own question when you stated "The only deficiencies that he showed is coverage skills and his speed."
Those are two very big deficiencies. If a true freshman, or any other player for that matter, can be almost as good as Kovacs against the run (and he is very very good) but better in defending the pass in the flats (speed) and covering TE and slots (coverage skills) then I invite the change.
I don't think a challenger would have to be very close to Kovacs against the run. Obviously, he'd need to be okay, but teams are going to pick on Kovacs all year unless he shows significant improvement.
coverage is not going to be a primary job for in the box safety. It's stopping against the run.
With that being said, there is no one who is challenging Kovacs for the starting spot and Kovacs pretty much has it on the lockdown.
The "Griese was a walk-on" notion has more lives than Dracula. It makes for a great story but it's not true.
For the record, Griese was a regular recruit. However, he committed at the very end of the year, after we'd run out of available scholarships. Gary Moeller promised him one as soon as one opened up, and one opened up that fall. Griese's story has virtually nothing in common with that of Kovacs (a student who made the team on a walk-on tryout). Basically, we oversigned by one in the 1993 recruiting class and Griese was the one guy who had to wait until a spot opened up.