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Question about Chris Webber

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:13 PM
#1
RollDamnTide
RollDamnTide's picture
Joined: 02/03/2012
MGoPoints: 422
Question about Chris Webber

From an outsider, I was curious what the general feeling about Chris Webber was. After the ban imposed by the NCAA, will you as the Michigan fans welcome him back with open arms? Or will you require an explanation and an apology from him before you are ready to make nice? I ask solely about Webber, because it seems the rest of the group have embraced being accepted back by the Michigan family a great deal more than Webber. 

As a basketball fan, I loved the Fab 5, regardless of what happened afterwards, they changed the game. Sorry if this has been talked about ad nauseum, but being an outsider, I was very curious. 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:17 PM
#2
snarling wolverine
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Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 42993
Webber's actually the only

Webber's actually the only member of the Fab Five who was implicated in the NCAA scandal. The other three players involved were here later on.  

It'll be interesting.  The ban ends a year from now, I believe, but it seems like the school would like him to issue some kind of apology.  The other four members of the Fab Five seem to be trying to bridge the gap.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 PM
(Reply to #2) #3
nyc_wolverines
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 570
THIS IS MICHIGAN by Fab 5 + Glen Rice, Rumeal Robinson

Would be great to see one of those at Crisler. Apart from Fab5, Glen Rice, Rumeal Robinson, would add Loy Vaught. 17 years in the NBA, not a bad career for Loy.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:08 PM
(Reply to #35) #4
hart4eva
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Joined: 02/21/2011
MGoPoints: 216
I don't think

I don't think the school will be asking Rumeal Robinson to be doing too many PR or promotional things.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/2011-01-07-rumeal-robinson-prison_N.htm

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February 23rd, 2012 at 3:03 AM
(Reply to #60) #5
stankoniaks
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Joined: 02/04/2009
MGoPoints: 1737
Watch the ESPN 60 on Rumeal

Watch the ESPN 60 on Rumeal Robinson. He's a POS human being.

 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 7:34 AM
(Reply to #35) #6
Lordfoul
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 1390
Don't forget Terry Mills.

Don't forget Terry Mills.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:06 AM
(Reply to #98) #7
jonny_GoBlue
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Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 4541
He was sitting in front of me

He was sitting in front of me on Saturday at the Ohio game.

No, I did not yell "down in front".

He was nice to all the random fans who came up to talk to him.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:17 PM
#8
neoavatara
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Joined: 08/01/2009
MGoPoints: 1726
Tough question

Really tough question.

I was at Michigan during that era.  In fact, I knew Webber, casually.  So I have a lot of nostalgia for that era.

That said....Webber has made it tough to forgive him.  If he had come out, revealed everything, explained his mistakes...I think it would be easier to forgive and forget.  The other guys have all been honest about their time...but Chris simply can't do it.  He feels betrayed, but doesn't see that betrayal works both ways.

So I don't know.  Even now.  I think overall, the fan base is ambivalent. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:15 AM
(Reply to #3) #9
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51840
He simply

does not believe that he has anything to be forgiven about.  Webber believes he has been honest, he just does not have the same perception of what that means as Michigan fans do.  he believes he has admitted (or at a minimum been was entirely outed) as to what was taking place, but he simply does not believe that what he engaged in entitles Michigan fans or anybody to an apology.  If Michigan fans want Webber back in the fold, they have to stop makng it contingent, they have to stop identifying Webber's defiance or lack of remorse as the reason the Michigan basketball community cannot be totally cleansed of the sins of the past.  If he is accepted it is going to have to be as is, take it or leave it.  Personally, I think it should be left.  Webber was a part of what was a great experience while it was happenning but he was not the only part of it.  He does not need to be back as part of the program to vindicate Jilmmy King's involvement.  King's (or Rose's, or Howard's) involvement is every bit as important and may actually be tainted by the presence of somebody who acts with the amount of entitlement that has come to define Webber's personality.  Webber and Michigan went through a horrible breakup, a messy divorce, and I don't think that they can be just "friends" now.  I think all would be best to leave it alone.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:51 AM
(Reply to #113) #10
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 16432
fascinating post; you draw these conclusions about Webber

from his general demeanor, comments, or via some personal knowledge?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:21 PM
#11
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 52761
Personally - I love Webber. 

Personally - I love Webber.  I still wear my maize #4 bball jersey with Webber on the back.  I cheered for him with the Kings, and the 76ers, and loved the short time he had with the Pistons (even though he didn't have knees anymore).  He was the most exciting basketball player ever, at a time when MJ was in his prime. 

I'd love for him to come back to the program and be a part of it, and I hope he's welcomed back if that ever happens.

EDIT:  A couple years ago, the Alumni Association of LA did a Clippers-Pistons night at Staples, and I wore said jersey to the game.  I got a lot of positive comments from the other UM alums in the group.  I didn't get any negative comments, but that could have been out of courtesy more than anything else. 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:23 PM
(Reply to #4) #12
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
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Also, I first became a

Also, I first became a Michigan fan during Desmond's Heisman season (I was seven) but some of my earliest memories cheering for the Maize and Blue were for the Fab 5. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:18 AM
(Reply to #5) #13
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
All four of the players

All four of the players involved in the scandal were banned for 10 years.  It's just that Webber is the only Fab Five member to be banned.  Rose, Howard, King and Jackson have always been free to come back.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:19 PM
#14
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
I love

him, forgave him, have no ill feeling towards him. My favorite NCAA, NBA player of all time. I loved watching him play from 91-92 till he retired from the Golden State Warriors. I wish he would admit what he did so he could come back and be around after his 10 year ban is lifted and be loved like Jalen, Jimmy, Ray, and Juwan are all treated today. C- Webb for President 2016

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 PM
(Reply to #6) #15
Babaracus
Joined: 01/29/2012
MGoPoints: 67
I have forgiven

The guy was given a penalty, paid the price...long over due. He was an absolute beast player, most of my memories of Michigan basketball evolve around Mr. Webber. I don't think the University and him will make amends anytime soon...I don't see Brandon bringing him back to the arena/game for a long time. I think there will unfortunately always be a black cloud around Webber and UM...

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:20 PM
#16
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
The ban ends this year but as

The ban ends this year but as far as I was aware, I thought the school wants some sort of acknowledgement from him before they accept him back in any official way. I don't see them ever really coming together.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:21 PM
#17
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
People who most likely

would have done the exact same thing in his shoes hate him. For that reason alone I never ever was even mad at him.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:46 PM
(Reply to #8) #18
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
From your perspective

What do you think it was that he did wrong/upsets people? Because while I like him there are parts of it that make it hard for me to empathize with him. I feel like there are a lot of younger people that don't even understand what the issues were. I'm a student now and I would say most of my friends couldn't tell you what Chris Webber did other than, "He took money."

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:50 PM
(Reply to #11) #19
Zone Left
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 16278
I think a lot of it is

I think a lot of it is imagined, but he did take a lot of cash from Ed Martin.

What I could never figure out was why Martin was giving people money. The sheer amount of money suggests he wanted a big payback from NBA money, but I've never read about him getting anything back. If he had $280,000 (per Wikipedia, so it must be true) to give to Webber, it's not he needed the cash. He appears to not have been some type of street agent funneling prospects to Michigan--he seemed more like a ridiculous booster for Detroit Southwestern. 

There are just so many unanswered questions and Martin can't answer anymore. I'd love to learn Webber's side of the story, but I'm not holding my breath.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:55 PM
(Reply to #41) #20
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
Loser

Dude was a complete hanger-on. He ran an illegal lottery just so he could ingratiate himself with talented kids and feel like a big shot with all the scholarship athletes.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:59 PM
(Reply to #49) #21
Zone Left
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 16278
Yeah, I know all about it.

Yeah, I know all about it. It's just bizarre. He was doing it before Webber and was throwing money around Southwestern for a long time without really getting anything out of it.

Maybe he just lucked into a lucrative scam and couldn't figure out how to save all that cash.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:03 PM
(Reply to #54) #22
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
Right

I'm just saying the reason he was giving them money was to stay in their favor. Plus, you're probably right that he just saw it as a way to hide the money.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:55 PM
(Reply to #55) #23
PurpleStuff
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Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 15963
Not hiding money

If you give the money away you really don't have to hide it.  It also isn't much of a criminal enterprise if at the end of the day you don't keep the cash.

Martin was a hanger-on who wanted to feel important.  He tried the same shit at Iowa but either got rebuffed eventually or the coach he had a relationship with got fired (memory is a little shaky on that).  Frieder and Fisher both cultivated the relationship and gave Martin the access he craved (tickets, locker room access, hotels, etc.).  In return their kids got taken care of and high school players were encouraged to enroll at Michigan.  It probably would have continued indefinitely if the car being used to show Mateen Cleaves a good time hadn't flipped over.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:04 PM
(Reply to #8) #24
UMxWolverines
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Joined: 03/01/2009
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So do you think all the ohio

So do you think all the ohio players are right for what the did too?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:13 PM
(Reply to #58) #25
Zone Left
Zone Left's picture
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 16278
I have no problem with

I have no problem with Terrelle Pryor selling his autograph/jersey. None at all. I think the NCAA rules are basically arbitrary and stupid. I begrudge no one for taking advantage of a situation like that. Change Terrelle Pryor to Denard Robinson and I'd wager most of this board would argue the same thing. I don't know that there's a fix for it short of paying 18 year-old kids six figures for attending a public school (I'm not in favor of this), but there has to be a way to let players who make enormous profits for their schools get some cash money.

Personally, the free education argument is pretty weak for me. FBS football players are essentially professional athletes with class attendance as a stipulation in their contracts. Plenty of them take advantage of it and move onto great things after football, but there's no way Denard gets anywhere near his economic value to U of M.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:08 AM
(Reply to #61) #26
RickH
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Joined: 11/01/2009
MGoPoints: 915
I can't speak for anybody

I can't speak for anybody else, but there is no way I'd defend Denard if he sold his stuff.  That's cheating and only lowers us to the levels of Auburn, Ohio State, etc.  I don't understand how the free education is a weak argument either.  They're giving them an education that many of these athletes could never get without athletics.  It would cost about 160k to get a Michigan education if you lived out-of-state, and that's not including the stipend that the athletes get.  As an added bonus, they get publicity that could later help them land a job (possibly commentating or running their own business as people will feel they are 'more trustworthy' since they are a celebrity) and a chance to advance to the next level of athletics.  Life is more about money and scholarship athletes are given life experiences that many would never have in return for playing a sport for the school who will earn money off of it.  People are too greedy now-a-days.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:53 AM
(Reply to #77) #27
unWavering
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Joined: 01/13/2011
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You nailed it for me.  If

You nailed it for me.  If college athletes are in it for an education, they get paid with an education.  If they are in it to make it to the pro's, they get the exposure and free training to accomplish that.  Both of those things have a high price tag.  I know of no other profession where you can get training and that kind of exposure for free.  People who think these players get taken advantage of are off-base if you ask me. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:09 AM
(Reply to #61) #28
goblue20111
goblue20111's picture
Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 7208
Let them sign endorsements. 

Let them sign endorsements.  Doesn't matter if it's with Nike or with a local car dealer.  Operate the system on a free market. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:33 AM
(Reply to #61) #29
pdgoblue25
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Joined: 03/03/2010
MGoPoints: 10591
Agreed, my biggest problem with the whole thing was Vest

The fact that he (and the entire fan base) always acted like he was some beacon of morals was such horseshit.  I was just glad he was exposed as the hypocrite that he is.  He was just trying to win football games like everyone else.

Between his days at YSU, Clarett, players starting their first games back after DUI's (Alex Boone was so drunk that he passed out at the wheel and smashed into a parked car on campus), Ray Small getting 9 second chances, Rob Rose and Ray Small somehow magically becoming eligible by completing course work 2 weeks after the quarter had ended, and covering up the tat scandal. 

I couldn't have cared less about the players getting free tattoos and selling their stuff.  It was all about Vest lying, gettting caught, and STILL trying to cover it up, then the university acting like they had come clean from the start.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:27 AM
(Reply to #8) #30
tasnyder01
Joined: 10/11/2010
MGoPoints: 2321
I don't speak for everyone, but

I'm not mad at him for taking the money; I'm mad that he didn't admit it.

I love that he did great things for the school while he was here; I hate that he left the school in a bad position.

That said, not everyone would have done what he did.  Our football players don't take money, as professionals we don't (I hope) break our contracts.  Webber did just that: he broke his contract.  Was it a fair contract? No.  But he signed it, and he had an obligation to obey it.

That being said, I don't hate him.  I love him the way someone loves the ex that got away: you will always love them, but you'll perhaps never forgive them for that one mistake.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:38 AM
(Reply to #89) #31
goblue20111
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Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 7208
Breaking contracts to be able

Breaking contracts to be able to get in on something better happens all the time in instances where the business entity gets more in the long term ($$$) than they lose in the short term (litigation costs). 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:24 PM
#32
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
Just watched

his top 10 greatest plays of all time last night on You Tube, and wow never seen a big man with his hands, power, explosion, and whatever else kind of words you wanna use to desribe the best all around power forward off all time.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 4:46 AM
(Reply to #10) #33
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16158
really?

best all time power forward? he won't even make the hall of fame.   not even close.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:43 AM
(Reply to #96) #34
Johnny Blood
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Joined: 12/22/2010
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Knee injuries really hampered

Knee injuries really hampered his career.  It's not going to help his case with the Hall of Fame or anything like that, but if he had stayed healthy, he certainly had the tools to be one of the best ever.  His NBA rookie year was ridiculous. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:37 AM
(Reply to #96) #35
pdgoblue25
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Joined: 03/03/2010
MGoPoints: 10591
Not even close?

I'm not sure if he'll make it, but I won't say that he won't come close.  He averaged 20 pts and 9 boards for his career.  He was the best power forward in the game for at least a 5 year span.  There's also an argument that he was the best passing big man of all time.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:24 PM
#36
WestSider
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Joined: 02/04/2011
MGoPoints: 5717
I really liked Webber

during his playing days, I thought he demonstrated enough humility and had enough class for a superstar college kid. However, he does need to apologize somehow, and he hasn't. The power of an apology that is genuine, where he is accountable for his own actions, is priceless, and goes a long way to healing wounds. Since he refuses to provide one, his legend is tainted. I would love to talk with him and discuss how he could apologize to the Michigan faithful, and better preserve his legacy, and salvage more respect from observers. Why he has not done that is a mystery to me. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 11:28 AM
(Reply to #12) #37
Frank Drebin
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Joined: 07/01/2008
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Perjury charges

I am not sure that Webber wants to admit that he perjured himself in front of a grand jury. He and his father never came out and admitted that they took the $280,000 from Martin or ever repaid the $38,000 Martin said he received back from Webber. Even though Webber pleaded to criminal contempt, he never admitted his wrong doings. Nothing could happen to him regarding this case if he were to come clean now, but I don't think it would make him look any better after lying to a grand jury.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:26 PM
#38
blackgandhi
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Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 533
Welcome him back, for sure.

Welcome him back, for sure. He was my favorite basketball player growing up. Obviously the scandal sucks, but because it's not football, as ridiculous as that sounds, I can deal with it.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 PM
#39
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 16432
Huge fan, and assume that some kind of little dance will get

improvised to get he and the school back into each other's official good graces one of these days. It'll likely be a bit awkward and unrevealing, but hey. . . 

I'm more looking forward to a really candid telling by him of the saga, probably still pretty far in the future. He's a very bright but interestingly guarded guy. Maybe he's protecting his parents a little? 

I really regret the way money has seeped into the college game. Some things get designated as officially corrupt or unacceptable, some don't, but it's a more generalized problem. For me, it's hard to get angry at the kids. 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 PM
#40
RollDamnTide
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Joined: 02/03/2012
MGoPoints: 422
Side note

I firmly believe that there have never been a group of college athletes more exploited than the Fab 5. A lot of people made a lot of money off of them, and it seemed crazy that they would never see any of it. This is no me stumping for college athletes to be paid, because quite honestly I'm not in favor of it. But the Fab 5 just was the sensation in college sports, that will never be seen again. Also, I don't blame the University, it's not their fault the players became the mega hits that they did. Speaking for myself, it would drive me crazy that my jersey number, and black socks, and t shirts were making others millions, the system be damned.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:16 PM
(Reply to #15) #41
PurpleStuff
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Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 15963
Part of the problem

I think a lot of the negative reaction to Webber comes from people viewing him as a phony and a hypocrite, and this issue is at the forefront of that.  When Webber left after his sophomore year, he essentially said that he had to bolt because the school was profiting but he was broke. 

Acting like you are the victim of heartless oppression when in fact you have brought in a quarter of a million dollars under the table is kind of ridiculous.  Webber wasn't a victim of the system.  He exploited/abused the system for maximum profit, and then bolted as soon as possible to make close to $100 million as an NBA player.  He also didn't come from nearly as difficult a background as guys like Howard and Rose to begin with, so pleading poverty and playing the victim don't ring near as true coming from him. 

These are things that make me view Webber in a much more negative light than the other Fab 5 members, or any of the other guys who took Martin's money along the way. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:32 AM
(Reply to #15) #42
tdcarl
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Joined: 04/11/2009
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But still, they had to know

But still, they had to know that as soon as their free education was over they were going to get paid way more than they ever could get under the table. Sure it would suck to know that people were making money off you at the current time, but in just a few years you were going to get an NBA contract, shoe/clothing contract, etc. I know its hard for kids to be able to delay millions of dollars, but to put your whole university at risk just so you can get some cash is an immature move.

 

I'm not saying that I don't like the fab five, in fact I love them. Thanks to them I'm not wearing John Stockton shorts. I just wish they hadn't thrown the university under the bus. Had they not done that, the amazing season the team is having now could have been the norm rather than an amazing return to glory.

 

All I want from Webber is an appology and I'll be just fine accepting him back.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 PM
#43
Section 1
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Joined: 06/29/2009
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With the notable exception of Michael Rosenberg,

I have some belief in forgiveness and reconciliation.

But Webber has shown an increasingly shitty attitude throughout the entire scandal that was almost uniquely his to own.  Michigan's basketball scandal had nothing to do with coaches breaking recruiting rules, or schools falsifying grades, or any other institutional cheating.  It was pure, personal greed on the part of Ed Martin and a handful of stupid, seflish, greedy players, principally including Webber.  And the co-dependency of Bill Frieder* and  Steve Fisher.

When Webber says he's sorry, and shows that he's sorry, and comes up with a better attitude, then I'd think about it.  That would be a better day for all concerned if that happened.  I don't really expect it; but maybe Jalen will intervene.

You have to cut Webber some slack insofar as he faced real jeopardy of federal imprisonment until Ed Martin kicked the bucket.  A guy deserves the chance to do what he needs to do to stay out of jail.  Not that that is much of a "Michigan Man" qualification; escaping imprisonment.  But he's out of federal criminal jeopardy now.  No more excuses.

*Not formally implicated in Michigan's NCAA basketball violations.  But clearly as compromised as Fisher.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 PM
#44
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 29685
Just one fans opinion...

I would love to see Webber "back in the fold" so to speak. Given the complicated nature of the issues involved, I don't think we should expect a full apology, but I would like to see him speak publicly on the purgery charges.

On top of that, I'd like to see him give an "I'm sorry for what happened with the NCAA" type gesture. IMO, he doesn't need to admit fault or apologize for what he did, but he should make it known that he regrets how everything turned out.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:35 PM
(Reply to #17) #45
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
Purgery

Throwing up in a manner unacceptable by the law?

Seriously though, I never see it happening. I think he feels wronged in the whole thing and doesn't want to take responsibility for his part.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:38 PM
(Reply to #22) #46
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
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Yup. Just got put onto the books this session.

Seriously, though, I can understand Webber's feelings. I don't want him to say a bunch of things he doesn't believe to be welcomed back, but he should express some regret for the way things turned out, even if he still feels he wasn't in the wrong.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 PM
#47
spock n roll
Joined: 01/31/2012
MGoPoints: 26
Love him forever

His recruitment is the first one I ever noticed (I was in eighth grade).  Mostly, I just regret that he didn't turn out better than he did -- he had all the physical tools to be one of the twenty best basketball players ever but was just missing some killer instinct.  So much more talented than Barkley or Malone or Duncan.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:32 PM
#48
mGrowOld
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Joined: 10/04/2010
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The greatest Michigan player

The greatest Michigan player to ever wear the block M?  Yeah....I'll welcome him back.  Those two years were beyond amazing and I would love to get them back.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:36 PM
(Reply to #19) #49
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
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No Cazzie love?*

*I was two during their freshman year, so I don't have the same memories of the Fab Five as older posters here do.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:49 PM
(Reply to #19) #50
GOBLUE4EVR
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Joined: 01/09/2009
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there is...

a guy named cazzie and a guy named glen that might want to talk to you about the greatest player to wear the block M comment... :)
 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 PM
(Reply to #40) #51
mGrowOld
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Joined: 10/04/2010
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Chocolate, Vanilla or

Chocolate, Vanilla or Stawberry?  Which ice cream flavor is best?  All a matter of opinion but ALL of them are fantastic.  I happen to favor C-Webb but take NOTHING away from Cazzie, Glen.  Heck one could make a pretty compelling arguement in favor of Phil, Gary or even Jalen and I wouldn't object.  I just happen to like Chris.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:33 PM
#52
mackbru
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 6762
I don't know how you can

I don't know how you can forgive him unless or until he apologizes. The guy took a huge amount of dirty money. He knew he was breaking the rules (and therefore knew he was jeopardizing the program and his teammates). He didn't come from poverty. Gimme a break, Homer.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:34 PM
#53
MH20
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Joined: 10/30/2008
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If this has been said before,

If this has been said before, my apologies, but does anyone know if the U plays on putting the banners back up after the 20 year ban is over?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:36 PM
(Reply to #21) #54
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
They

cant considering we had to forfiet all the wins which I dont think we get back after 20 years.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:46 PM
(Reply to #23) #55
JustGoBlue
Joined: 06/15/2009
MGoPoints: 867
I thought

they could?  Wasn't part of the ESPN documentary about how the banners were in storage until they could be displayed again, at the end of the dissociation period?  And didn't they talk to Dave Brandon about how he would love to put them back up and couldn't wait to do it?  I could easily be completely wrong, I'm certainly no NCAA rules expert, but I got the impression that next year everything is back in play.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 PM
(Reply to #32) #56
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
I'm pretty sure that's just

I'm pretty sure that's just wishful thinking on Jalen's part. I could also be wrong.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:40 PM
(Reply to #21) #57
Zone Left
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I don't think they can. The

I don't think they can. The wins never happened, per the NCAA. I said it when OSU had their wins vacated and I'll write it here. Vacating wins is stupid. The games happened. Seriously, those highlight films weren't in exhibition games.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 PM
(Reply to #30) #58
Vivz
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Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 1204
The NCAA "accepted" Michigan's sanctions

which included the vacation of wins.

I'm not sure what that actually means however. To me, we could still put the banners back up.

What would the NCAA do if we did that?

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February 23rd, 2012 at 2:02 AM
(Reply to #45) #59
Picktown GoBlue
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Joined: 01/21/2011
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shake their collective fingers at Michigan??

I don't know - in the recent osu football findings, the punishment included specification of how osu had to demonstrate to the NCAA that they had properly updated all their statistics to account for the vacated wins.  There was no mention about a time limit on the vacation.  I don't see how the banners ever go back up.

Not sure if others receive the various trivia questions from U of M (from 51234), but at least 4 of the most recent trivia questions could only be answered correctly by ignoring all the vacated wins, tourney appearances, B1G tourney wins, etc.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:47 PM
(Reply to #21) #60
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
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Wasn't it just a 10 year ban

Wasn't it just a 10 year ban from the ruling time? Or was that contact with any of the players in an official manner?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:37 PM
#61
BursleysFinest
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MGoPoints: 2947
Jalen was my favorite though

1.  Officially, the program probably wants an apology/admission before he's welcomed back

2.   For the UM fans/alumni, the people who loved him, will still Love him (the majority of Fans IMHO) and the people who hated him will still hate (The Fab Five documentary illustrates that there was a small number of fans/alumni didn't like the Fab Five because of their image, histrionics and/or race)

As someone born in Detroit and an UM alumni, I love him, though I wish he had just said whatever did happen and be done with it

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:38 PM
#62
GOBLUE4EVR
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Joined: 01/09/2009
MGoPoints: 3154
behind glen rice...

chris webber will always be my favorite michigan basketball player and i as a michigan fan will welcome him back with open arms.

people have to understand that this is NOT all webbers fault and he was NOT the only player that took money there are 3 others that we know of. but chris gets all of the blame because he was the best out of all of them. steve fisher and his coaching staff get a pass from a lot of fans for whatever reasons, someone had to know what was going on. if chris doesn't want to talk and doesn't want to apologize that is his choice... i think that no matter what michigan should reach out to him next year.

also people need to move on it happened 20 years ago... lets just be glad that there were only 4 players named in the whole thing and not more...

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:40 PM
#63
nyc_wolverines
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 570
Fab 5 and Gary Moeller.

Fab 5 and Gary Moeller. Greatest casualties of the 90s followed by a cathartic MNC and Heisman winner. God figured we needed a little cheering up.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:41 PM
#64
bacon1431
Joined: 07/26/2008
MGoPoints: 10271
LOVE LOVE LOVE him as a all

LOVE LOVE LOVE him as a all player. He was phenomenal. Rare talent. But he didn't handle the scandal very well. And I'm not talking about the actual violation. But perjury is a big deal. And he has never seemed to feel sorry for what he did. But I'd welcome him back if he reached out to reconcile.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 PM
#65
SAvoodoo
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Joined: 01/10/2010
MGoPoints: 3712
I heard a rumor that he can't

I heard a rumor that he can't apologize because he's not allowed any mention of Michigan at all and doesn't want to cause more trouble for anyone.  Anyone know anything about it or just some BS people claim to feel better about the situation?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 PM
(Reply to #34) #66
MGoBeer
Joined: 03/11/2011
MGoPoints: 2313
It's not that he's not "allowed" to

He told the court he didn't do anything wrong. If he admitted it now he could get in trouble for perjury.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:55 PM
(Reply to #44) #67
SAvoodoo
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Oh okay, that makes sense. I

Oh okay, that makes sense. I just remembered hearing that somewhere and was curious if it was true. 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:05 PM
(Reply to #44) #68
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 16556
Complete nonsense.

Who told you that?

With no active criminal investigation pending, with every federal statute of limitations havein long since passed, with Webber not having supplied grand jury testimony (or any other testimony under oath) for more than three years, and with the general 3-year federal statute of limitations having gone about 1.5 lifetimes ago... NO.  Chris Webber faces no possible perjury jeopardy.  And no, falsely proclaiming your innocence does not warrant further federal punishment unless as a sentence enhancement under the sentencing guidelines or other really special circumstances.  (Maybe Scooter Libby.) 

Even when Webber got caught lying before, he pled guilty to criminal contempt (a lesser charge) not perjury.  So there's that little double jeopardy thing too.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:35 PM
(Reply to #44) #69
HermosaBlue
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Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 5001
Webber pled guilty

To a reduced charge of criminal contempt, after being indicted for perjury for lying to the grand jury about Ed Martin.

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/webber-pleads-guilty-criminal-contempt

So he can't be tried again for perjury - it would be double jeopardy.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 PM
#70
Genzilla
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1484
Marketing

David Brandon loves marketing..... let's remember that.  I think he understands how valuable a Fab 5 reunion can be to the popularity of UM Basketball and I think he'll do everything he can to bring Chris back in somehow.  

Also, I know that the banners can't be hung up in the arena, but what if they were hung up in the practice arena or player lounge.  I think that would be a great unofficial gesture to recognize that UM actually did play in those 2 national finals without actually hanging them in the arena.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:48 PM
#71
StephenRKass
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Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 17282
I'm just sad

The Fab 5, and especially Webber, were incredible. We will (probably) never experience something like them again. I love the current team, and I love John Beilein, and I think the level of coaching is better than with the Fab Five. Having said that, watching Webber, and Jalen, and Howard (even Jackson and King) was just jaw dropping, exciting, FUN! There is something lost in the current style of play. The Fab Five, really, in some ways, were the last group like that, because they came right at the time when 4 years at a school ended, and 1 and done began.

When I think of Michigan's relationship with Webber, all I can say is, it's complicated. I think that race and class and judgementalism are tied up in this, in a way that isn't real easy to sort out.

Along with some of the other posters, I also regret that Webber never won a championship, not with Michigan, nor in the NBA.

In a less popular view, I also don't hate Steve Fisher. In my mind, he has been partially vindicated by the performance of the Aztecs out in San Diego.

Final piece of trivia:  Juwan Howard, in 2012, is STILL in the NBA, playing (rather, sitting on the bench largely) for the Miami Heat. If he lasts the season, and the Heat should win the NBA championship, Howard would be the only member of the Fab Five to win such an honor. It is incredible that he is still playing, more than 20 years after the Fab Five era.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:54 PM
#72
StephenRKass
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Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 17282
Fascinating Coincidence

The timing for the opening of the new Crisler Center (next year) and the end of the Fab Five ban is fascinating. What a coincidence (or was it planned that way?  Hmmm.)  It would be such an over the top cool marketing thing to have the Fab Five back at Crisler for the grand opening next year. I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:50 PM
#73
BlueRude
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Joined: 11/17/2011
MGoPoints: 324
Regardless of the Issue

The program really suffered. I still also miss Mo. Dark days back then.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:50 PM
#74
Bluegoose
Joined: 11/08/2010
MGoPoints: 256
Clearly, he was the worst thing that ever happened

to Michigan.

The record of those teams does not outweigh the damage they caused  the basketball program. We wondered about the "attidude" that he exhibited which was sort of  under the surface and became evidenced in what later came to light. Had Webber handled it differently in the aftermath, then maybe, OK. But the arrogance and lying, the federal suit, the conviction.....it is not something any amount of wins or Final Fours can erase.

Webber was all about Webber from start to finish, otherwise he would have handled it differently. Michigan is about Michigan and the team; not the individual. Fisher forgot that. Webber never learned.

I would be very surprised and extremely disappointed if he was welcomed back. I just cannot see how what Michigan has had to deal with even to this day, can be offset by a couple Final Fours and an unprecedented arrogance. How was that guy at all like a guy like Denard? Not even close.

When I came to Michigan, Cazzie was practicing in the IM Building. After every practice he would shoot foul shots until he made 100 in a row. If he missed, he started over. Webber complained about not having money for a pizza when he was being paid thousands. Sorry, when he was being "loaned" thousands. He never paid back the "loans." He never paid back his scholarship or otherwise contributed to the University that made him famous.

Talented, yes. Selfish; beyond question, and in every way. Not made of the stuff of Michigan, without question. I'm glad the banners were taken down as painful as that was. They were tainted. Michigan is not and should never be "tainted."

 

 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 PM
#75
bluebrow
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Joined: 09/11/2010
MGoPoints: 314
He's 39 and

so am I.  There are things that a person has to just man up to.  Personally, I don't need any detail, just regret for what he did and the effect it had on the University.  I think that will come out after he is allowed to associate with M again.  Until then, it's really not necessary.  Waiting till then will add to the drama and strengthen the story of the Fab Five.  I do think that he has to man up.  If he can't tell me that he loves the University of Michigan so much that regrets what he did, then I think the part I couldn't forgive would be not being a true Michigan Man. 

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 PM
#76
RollDamnTide
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Joined: 02/03/2012
MGoPoints: 422
Thanks everyone

Lots of info here, a lot in which I wasn't aware.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:52 PM
#77
BursleysFinest
BursleysFinest's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 2947
What happened to Bullock??

And just because there is no better plasce to put this....

I subscribe tot he Jalen Rose theory of what happened, iin that Webber was not really getting anything pizza money while at UM, and at some point after he finished playing, but before he actually got drafted, Ed Martin gave him some big sum of money expecting to be taken care of later on...and that's when Ed Martin decided he could do this with more players and got his hooks in to Bullock, Taylor and Maurice Taylor and WAS giving them something more than pizza money while they were here....no inside information, but putting together the interviews/articles, etc I've seen and read, and it makes the most sense to me 

btw, what ever happened to Bullock?

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 PM
(Reply to #48) #78
SAvoodoo
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Joined: 01/10/2010
MGoPoints: 3712
He is currently with the pro

He is currently with the pro club CB Cajasol Sevilla in Spain (as per wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Bullock)

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February 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 PM
#79
G0B1U3
G0B1U3's picture
Joined: 07/07/2011
MGoPoints: 313
Seeing as though I was born

Seeing as though I was born after his reign of A2...I love Chris Webber, but to be honest I could not even tell you the specifics of the scandal..I'm interested though.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:03 PM
#80
Wolverine Devotee
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Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 126237
Extremely reliable sources told me

12/14/2013. Figure the rest out.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:04 PM
#81
brandanomano
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Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 5086
I never got the priveledge of

I never got the priveledge of seeing him live. I didn't even know about the entire scandal until the documentary came out just because I've never been big into basketball in general. Interesting fact, I was born the day of the Carolina loss and my parents watched that game while we were at the hospital (cool starry bra).

I know for a fact that he played his ass off for the university and loved Michigan until he felt like he got thrown under the bus. He was the face of a revolution in college basketball, and I don't blame him for taking money based on the limited information I know about the situation. So no, I don't hate him.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:13 PM
#82
UMxWolverines
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Joined: 03/01/2009
MGoPoints: 33484
Sorry

He needs to offer some sort of apology before that happens

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 PM
#83
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59119
Webber always struck me as a

Webber always struck me as a bit of a confused kid - he acted "street" but he came from a relatively stable family, played HS ball at an elite prep school, and despite having some well-publicized issues with end-of-game situations (the timeout, his play against the Lakers with the Kings), he made millions of dollars and lives a good life.  His animosity toward the university seems to be based on a perception that the school did not defend him more during the investigation and has made tacit statements implicating Chris as the main culprit in the Ed Martin scandal.

Personally, I'm happy he played at UM and think he helped legitimize UM basketball in a sense, but he isn't my favorite Wolverine by any stretch.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:28 PM
#84
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
C- Webb

will forever be the reason I starting following basketball the way I do now. Bald heads, black socks, and baggy shorts, and high flying dunks thanks you Fab Five

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:24 PM
#85
manchild56
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Joined: 10/20/2011
MGoPoints: 750
Not to be

that guy but if you call yourself a U of M fan and one of the sports you follow is basketball I cant fathom the fact you dont know the whole story of the scandal. I dont care if your 15 years old or 55 years old you should do some research and at least watch the 30 for 30 that came out last season on ESPN. I mean it is part of our history even though it is bad and was a black mark. So do yourselves a favor and watch the 30 for 30 documentary and learn about what set our program back at least 10 years.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:55 AM
(Reply to #67) #86
Bluemandew
Joined: 11/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1397
To be fair the 30 for 30

To be fair the 30 for 30 while being great and I love it is fairly one sided. Wich is to be expected it was produced by 4 members of the fab 5 they are not going to show themselves in a bad light. If someone needs to find out the whole story that is a place to start but they would need to do some other research to get the whole story.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 PM
#87
4godkingandwolv...
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Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 15763
The question to those willing to forgive...

... would you forgive him if he was involved in the scandal, never repented, and... was a benchwarmer who never had a decent game?  My guess is no.  Separating his performance from his sins, I don't forvige him.  

Side note: I new him as an aquantance in high school and college... funny guy, but let's just say that his behavior at school and since then don't surprise me.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:29 PM
#88
voraciousness
Joined: 02/01/2012
MGoPoints: 186
Think About It.

Think about how ridiculous it is for others to want him to apologize. What are you 6? So, he just needs to apologize, regardless if he actually means it, just say it to appease other people? If that makes you feel better you should probably move to a place where you're not around people, affecting them with your child-like rationale. 

"Okay, he said he was sorry, guys. Now, let's actually acknowledge his contributions to the University. Now I can sleep at night. I don't know about you." 

Let's grow up. He paid the price. The University paid the price, but also gained a ton of money and recognition. It's over. Get over it. 

"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever. I think that people need a second chance, and I've always looked up to Chris Webber, and I always will."

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:32 PM
#89
althegreat23
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Joined: 05/30/2011
MGoPoints: 2078
I was born just after the Fab

I was born just after the Fab Five left, but my dad told me all about them. I'll welcome him back with open arms & I hope he visits the campus after the ban is lifted.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:40 PM
#90
Hardware Sushi
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Joined: 03/08/2010
MGoPoints: 6379
I'm OK w him

I'm OK with him. I was 7 when he was a freshman, so I just thought the Fab 5 were awesome.

It sucks that he was part of what made this program suck for 10-15ish years but he was also a main component of one of the biggest college basketball stories ever and was just so siiiiiiiiick.

Plus, it isn't like all the blame lay with him - Martin was paying a lot of Detroit basketball players at that time.

I'm over it (I don't know if I really had anything to get over). Winning lately makes it easier regardless.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:49 PM
#91
CorkyCole
Joined: 06/13/2011
MGoPoints: 4498
Since I became a Michigan fan

Since I became a Michigan fan during the national championship game against North Carolina, probably after Webber's failed timeout, I could never hate the guy.  That was literally my first memory of watching anything Michigan.  My mom even bought me a little Michigan hoodie prior to me becoming a fan, and I didn't even realize what the heck "Michigan Wolverines" meant. I probably just loved the little bear looking thing on the hoodie, and that's probably the only reason I wore it prior to that day (I was about 8 at the time.. give a guy a break).

Anyway.. Chris Webber's jersey was the first Michigan jersey I ever wore.  I love the guy.  And I will be forever grateful for him being a part of the reason why I am now literally obsessed with Michigan (and mgoblog). So yeah... I'd give the guy a hug given the opportunity and let him know he's still loved.

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February 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 PM
#92
ReadYourGuard
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Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 33682
Sorry, but if Webber never

Sorry, but if Webber never sets foot in Ann Arbor again, I'd be be fine with that.

If you disgrace the university as severely as he did and set the program back 20 years, and never so much as acknowledge it...... Sorry. To hell with him.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:07 AM
#93
allezbleu
Joined: 11/02/2008
MGoPoints: 373
There is legitimate

reason to be mad at Webber, but I bet you people who haven't moved on would have moved on like a decade ago if we hadn't sucked under Ellerbe and Amaker.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:28 AM
(Reply to #76) #94
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
Yeah, there's a bit of a

Yeah, there's a bit of a misunderstanding among a lot of fans where they seem to think that the Ed Martin scandal was what caused the program to stink for a decade.  The sanctions were not all that bad.  We just plain mismanaged the program for a long time, making two bad hires and skimping on facilities.  Those things were not Webber's fault.

 

 

 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:32 AM
#95
Mr. Robot
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Joined: 10/27/2009
MGoPoints: 1750
He Has to Apologize

I honestly don't think he took anything significant until after his sophomore season when he knew he was going to the NBA.

Regardless though, you can draw a very straight line between his actions and the complete destruction of the basketball program that it is only now finally recovering from. For that reason, I believe he definitely needs to apologize in some way. Beyond that though, that's all I want. Like I said, I don't think he was taking large sums, if anything at all, before he knew he was going pro. There have been too many people who knew him who all say he didn't live anything like a guy sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:39 AM
#96
Naked Bootlegger
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Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 15423
So conflicted

I arrived at UM the year after the '89 championship.   I endured heartbreak in '90 with a still-loaded UM squad that lost to a Loyola Marymount squad rolling on their amazing Hank Gathers-inspired run.  I soldiered on as a loyal supporter in the seats of Crisler during the mediocre year before the Fab 5, cheering on the likes of McIver, Mitchell, Tolbert, Calip, Riley, Talley, etc.   I admittedly hated that my junior status did me nothing when the student ticket demand skyrocketed after the Fab 5's arrival and I was forced to camp out for hours before the Duke game, only to get trampled by a mad rush through the doors.  I did not have a good seat for that game...did I mention that I cheered on McIver and Mitchell every game the previous year?!   Nonetheless, I swallowed the bitter pill and cheered my guts out.  The crowd and atmosphere was so electric for that game.   A truly amazing fan experience.  The tourney runs in '92 and '93 were surreal as a UM student fan.   The cult status of the Fab 5 was unlike anything modern college basketball had witnessed. 

In the aftermath of the Ed Martin scandal, I felt like my heart was torn out.   We cheated.   We got caught.   I felt filthy as a fan and UM alum.   All of our players agreed to play by the rules when they signed the dotted line on the scholarship papers, and I still feel a twinge of shame when Webber's name (or Mo Taylor or Louis Bullock) is brought up.   I may be able to forgive in time, but I will never forget the institutional suffering and basketball malaise brought on by their actions.    This is Michigan, fergodsakes.   We don't cheat (or maybe my view of major college athletics at our institution was and still is shrouded in naivete).   All of our recent OSU-bashing for Tressel, Pryor, et al.'s misdeeds rings slightly hollow if we so flippantly say "welcome back" to those who tarnished our university.  

I ultimately hope these wounds are healed.   But I honestly don't know what Webber, Taylor, and Bullock can do or say to completely erase the scars. "I'm sorry" would be a first good step.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:52 AM
#97
VermontMichiganFan
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Joined: 02/23/2012
MGoPoints: 128
I am a little too young to

I am a little too young to have followed those Michigan teams so I have no strong feelings of connection to them but I obviously love our teams now. Michigan basketball was nothing for two decades because of Weber and everyone else in the scandal. We were the Mecca of colege ball with the fab-five, which was really the first modern team and then we were nothing. Yeah a great run but winning that way is not the same as winning like we are now.
I cannot forgive those who ruined two decades of Michigan basketball no matter how high they took the program.
With all the talk on this blog about being a Michigan Man and the character of the seniors for both football and basketball I honestly don't understand how anyone can support those that hurt our school like Webber did.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:04 AM
#98
MFanNE
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Joined: 09/19/2010
MGoPoints: 2041
Old Memories

Makes me feel old to say that was during my time in HS....there were a few unbelievable athletes that came out of Michigan during that same time, Webber in basketball, Tyrone Wheatley in football and Derrick Jeter in baseball were the big names at the time I graduated.  

Which now makes me realize it has been 20yrs....damn.

 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:10 AM
#99
snoopblue
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Joined: 11/11/2009
MGoPoints: 2126
Most Michigan fans are pretty

Most Michigan fans are pretty forgiving, especially after almost 20 years. I think our Athletic Department will recognize it will be good to have someone like him who is heavily involved with NBATV and NBAonTNT involved with the program once again. He made mistakes, and the program paid the penalty. We are finally at the point now where that whole situation is in the rear view, I say bring them all back for some kind of Fab Five reunion game. Unlike so many other schools, we really did pay the ultimate price short of the death penalty for our mistakes - so I think we deserve the opportunity to celebrate what was accomplished on the court.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:14 AM
#100
Maizenblueball
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Joined: 12/08/2011
MGoPoints: 12493
With...Open Arms

Personally, I'd welcome Webber back with open arms.  I'll never forget the excitement of watching him and the rest of the Fab 5 shock the college basketball world.  As a kid I saw him play in highschool, and then at Michigan...so I feel a sense of loyalty to him and Jalen, because they were local Detroit area kids.  I always wished that he could have won an NBA championship, almost as a way to make up for not winning one in college, but I guess it wasn't in the cards.  Either way, I'll always accept a Michigan Man (and Michigander) back into the fold.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:15 AM
#101
AC1997
AC1997's picture
Joined: 09/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3305
Apologize to the fans...

I was at school during the Webber era and he was the best basketball player I have ever seen.  For what he and the Fab Five did on the court I will always be grateful.  And I don't think that his off-court issues were as bad as they were made out to be.  But I have a real problem with how Webber has handled it. 

His whole deal was that he didn't do anything wrong because the university was making money off his likeness and he had nothing (which wasn't quite true).  Even if he believed that and didn't want to apologize for what he did, I want to hear him apologize for the ramifications of his actions.  He helped ruin Michigan basketball for a decade (along with a wide range of other contributors) and should at least apologize for whatever role he played in setting the program back for so long. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:41 AM
#102
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 30564
Easy solution

It should be an easy negotiation: no mea culpa, no reconciliation.  

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February 23rd, 2012 at 1:47 AM
#103
Jon06
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Joined: 09/19/2009
MGoPoints: 9457
just to add another data point

i'm not mad at webber, and never was. i watched him call timeout against north carolina on big TVs in crisler when i was 9, and was kind of upset as the confusion subsided, but how could i be mad at a guy that led my dad's favorite team so far? as far as i'm concerned, the ncaa is the only reason he had to take money under the table, and if it weren't for them, the rest of it would never have happened. (of course, i'm also the sort of guy who wishes football and basketball teams would suddenly refuse to play en masse at crucial times of championship games until the ncaa stops exploiting them.)

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February 23rd, 2012 at 3:15 AM
#104
lilpenny1316
lilpenny1316's picture
Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 28721
I prefer an apology from Tom Goss instead

He's the guy that set the program back with the Ellerbee hiring.  Fisher had to go, but I would've preferred Dutcher stay on unless he too knew something fishy was going on but decided to turn a blind eye.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 7:26 AM
#105
randyfloyd
randyfloyd's picture
Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3562
I don't have

hard feelings. I loved the fab 5, and they are the reason I still hate Duke. As long as he has admitted publicly and apologize to the fans and the University, I'll welcome him back.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 7:47 AM
#106
jethro34
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 835
If the school insists on

If the school insists on Webber apologizing, then I insist on the school apologizing....for hiring Brian Ellerbe.  One did as much to kill the program as the other did.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 9:05 AM
(Reply to #99) #107
Bluemandew
Joined: 11/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1397
Apples to oranges there is a

Apples to oranges there is a difference between losing when your program is locked under a black cloud and knowingly breaking the rules and being a part of putting the black cloud in there in the first place.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 7:57 AM
#108
Laser Wolf
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 17695
My entire family is comprised

My entire family is comprised of Ohio State fans. My Dad grew up in Northeast Ohio and was raised in a Buckeye family. My Mom graduated from Ohio State. My grandfather ran on the practice squad under Wes Fesler just before Woody Hayes showed up.

The Fab Five is the reason I began cheering for Michigan, which grew into full blown obsession. For purely selfish reasons, yes I would welcome him back with open arms.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:19 AM
#109
MGoSoftball
MGoSoftball's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 7684
Come Home Chris

It's time.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:45 AM
#110
MidMichiganLaurence
MidMichiganLaurence's picture
Joined: 12/25/2011
MGoPoints: 236
Just a random thought here

but I wonder if C-Webb follows this blog, and if he does, what his feelings on us discussing it would be. I would say about 75% would be in favor of welcoming him back, and probably a higher percentage if an apology came with it. I do know that he tweets alot, especially on NBA thursday, as I read tons of his during the late hours while I'm at work. Maybe if he gets alot of positive tweets expressing how they would love to get that fence mended, that it could sway him. Like I said,  just a thought. Take it for what it's worth. 

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February 23rd, 2012 at 8:45 AM
#111
invisiblespoon
Joined: 12/03/2011
MGoPoints: 9
I was a big fan of his in the Maize and Blue

But before we can talk Michigan...

I need him to apologize to me as a Wizards/Bullets fan.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 9:37 AM
#112
Smash Lampjaw
Smash Lampjaw's picture
Joined: 11/10/2011
MGoPoints: 2025
What I never understood

was what he did with the money. He didn't have a lavish campus lifestyle and was never far away from big NBA money when he was here. That, and his silence makes me wonder if it was a Cam Newton-type situation, in that the money may have been for someone else.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:01 AM
(Reply to #108) #113
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 70328
what he did with the money.

I've read in various places that much or most of the money went to his parents.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 AM
#114
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 70328
Webber always seemed to have the attitude

that he made Michigan famous; that without him, Michigan basketball was nothing, and that's why he deserved to get paid for all the Webber jerseys Michigan sold during his time here.

Of course, he completely ignored the fact that Michigan had won a national championship just three years before he enrolled, and that UM had played in two NC games in the previous decades. He also seemed to be under the impression that the Fab Five could have gathered at any school, when in fact only a tiny number of programs at the time had the visibility and star power to entice five highly rated recruits to be part of the same class. Could Illinois or Oregon or Syracuse or Arizona have been able to do it, for example? or Michigan State? Highly unlikely. As far as I am aware, he's never publicly acknowledged that he owed at least as much to Michigan as UM owed to him. Until he does, and admit that his actions harmed the university in general and the basketball program in particular, he can stay the hell away.

That being said, what Louis Bullock did while at UM was even worse; he was just less visible as a player.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:52 AM
(Reply to #109) #115
Raoul
Raoul's picture
Joined: 09/29/2009
MGoPoints: 13957
Completely agree

I don't think Webber should be allowed back into Crisler until he offers some sort of apology for the harm he did to the program.

But Bullock should be persona non grata forever.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 10:06 AM
#116
TexanGOBLUE
TexanGOBLUE's picture
Joined: 05/20/2011
MGoPoints: 1288
Webber was a beast and my

Webber was a beast and my favorite all time Michigan basketball player. I would hug him long time and welcome him back any day.

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February 23rd, 2012 at 12:44 PM
#117
dcblue92
dcblue92's picture
Joined: 07/22/2008
MGoPoints: 187
My Perspective

I was a senior at Michigan when the Fab 5 were freshmen.  I had lucky timing, having experienced the National title as a freshman in '89.  That Fab 5 first tournament run was an AMAZING time to be on campus.  Needless to say, I was a huge fan.  I gave Webber the benefit of the doubt when the accusations started surfacing.  I did not believe such a seemingly, nice, intelligent, talented kid would do something like that.  I didn't want to believe it.

Now, I still love the rest of the Fab 5, especially Juwan and Jalen, but not so much Mr. Webber.  Why not forgive? 

1) He never admitted what was proven by a federal investigation;

2) While accepting the money, he was also crying poor, talking about all of the money Michigan made on his jerseys -- hypocrisy!

3) He DESTROYED the basketball program, along with the others.  Only now is it coming back, after almost 20 years. 

4) He never showed remorse for what he did to the program, his teammates (tarnished image, banners taken down, etc.), the university, future players, fans, etc.

5) What happened to Chris?  What was his "punishment"?  Make millions in the NBA?  Sorry, but 10 years ban from the university was hardly a punishment.  Of course, this is always true: players like Reggie Bush, Webber and Pryor never pay for hurting their schools.

So, no, I don't welcome him back with open arms.  If he ever came clean, I might soften a bit, but I'll never think of him in a positive light again.

 

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April 11th, 2013 at 3:30 PM
#118
tott
Joined: 04/11/2013
MGoPoints: 1
forgiveness

I think it is truly noble and devine to have the privilege to forgive someone. It allows us to be able to heal. We are all imperfect beings in an imperfect world. How wonderful is it that we can forgive unconditionally.  I take my clues form the bible, " for he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone".

I have been wrong before and recieved forgiveness. That is the most fantastic feeling.

To all of those people who have a vindictive and unforgiving heart,  I feel sorry for you, but I also forgive you, even if you don't ask for it.

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April 11th, 2013 at 4:10 PM
(Reply to #121) #119
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
RDT/WolverineInABag, is that

RDT/WolverineInABag, is that you?

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