QB progress

Submitted by Ziff72 on

As we gather our notes about practice from the internet. I am a little disappointed the Tate bandwagon has seemingly come to a halt from the "Insiders" this week. Seems like everyone is gushing over Denard. I was wondering if anyone knows if Denard is running exclusively against the 2's and 3's, because with our defensive depth that would make a huge difference on performance.

Bleedin9Blue

August 21st, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^

People are naturally attracted to things that are changing versus things that are staying the same. I'd say that it's a sign that nothing has changed with Tate that we're hearing so [relatively] little about him. Since we all know that Tate was doing very well during spring practice, the spring game, and the beginning of Fall practice, he's still probably doing well.

Besides, all the "insider" type stuff that I've read is that Tate is without a doubt the starter unless he gets injured (heaven forbid). People also like to focus on the underdog and Denard is definitely the underdog to Tate in terms of who's going to start.

Finally, Denard is doing some very flashy runs and such. They're fun to talk about and easy to identify. It's harder to describe how awesome Tate's spiral was than the describe how fast Denard ran past everyone.

As for who Denard is playing against, I think that RichRod generally rotates so he's probably getting some playing time with everyone. That said, I'd be willing to bet that he plays less with the "1s" than Tate does.

Feaster18

August 21st, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^

Good points,B9B - we simply don't have enough reliable information at this time of year to make any real judgments. I haven't read anything from the "Insiders" to indicate anything other than Forcier is the clear leader.

...and by the way: though another poster noted that your avatar looks a lot like Bill Frieder, I'm starting to see a little Boris Becker in it as well.

Bleedin9Blue

August 21st, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^

Yeah, I can see it too.

All I can say is wow. Even today, everybody still just wants to look like Caesar.

Edit: I wonder who my avatar would look like if I added a mustache to it.

Edit 2: And by the way Feaster18, you've inspired to keep track of who people say my avatar looks like in my signature. And I like "B9B", that's easy to type. Thanks.

ish

August 21st, 2009 at 1:21 PM ^

Bleedin9Blue wrote "People are naturally attracted to things that are changing versus things that are staying the same."

I think you've explained the reason US News can sell top schools magazines every year. If they didnt' change their rankings, no one would care.

Raback Omaba

August 21st, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^

Everything I've heard about Tate is that he is poised, talented, impressive and will be the guy on September 5th. That being said, expect Denard to compete for significant playing time, especially as the season goes on. A talent like him cannot be on the sidelines.

Tate is a good runner and a great passer.

Denard is a great runner and a good passer.

A QB combo, with Tate getting 65-70% of the snaps, is what I envision this season.

I am excited about both and am hesitant on jumping on teh Denard bandwagon because he's only been with the program less than a month now.

Bleedin9Blue

August 21st, 2009 at 9:25 AM ^

I think that a lot of people are hoping that that's exactly what Gardner will be. We'll see.

And by "we'll see" I of course mean that he will be that if and only if he get's that fifth star from Rivals. It's not dependent on coaching, persistence, helpful competition, Barwis, or anything else, nope Gardner's potential is dependent only on how many stars Rivals gives him.

bouje

August 21st, 2009 at 9:55 AM ^

likely to pan out than 4*'s so I completely agree we need to really put the heat on rivals to give him his 5th star.

The fate of Michigan football rests in Rivals hands!

mgovictors23

August 21st, 2009 at 9:21 AM ^

Tate is still looking impressive and will be the guy on September 5th. People obvoiusly are talking about Denard because of what he can do with his legs when he comes in.

Quail2theVict0r

August 21st, 2009 at 9:28 AM ^

Along with Vince Smith. Honestly I can't give you a link because I've read like 30 practice reports over the last week but I did read that. Tate and Sheridan are taking the reps with the 1st team. Sheridan is actually getting the 1st reps with the 1st team. From the reports Tate is still doing well - I think the only reason we are hearing about Robinson so much is because it is new. We have been hearing for 3 months now about Tate and people want to hear about Robinson now.

petered0518

August 21st, 2009 at 9:37 AM ^

I also think Tate has pretty much locked up the starter's role because right now, we need someone who can hit the open man more than someone who has electric speed.

If we throw Denard in, opposing defenses will crowd the line expecting Denard to be a run first guy, which will reduce the effectiveness of the run game. With Tate in, DBs will have to back off a bit more, letting Brandon Minor and Co. do their thing.

Not to say that Denard won't be viable in the future, but until he proves that he can make reads and hit the open man I am putting my money on Tate.

gnarles woodson

August 21st, 2009 at 9:57 AM ^

If you are upset that Tate isn't getting attention and Denard is, then you should point out that you are a Tate fan, not a Michigan fan. The best players should play and if Denard is pushing Tate, that is a good thing. If he passes Tate, that is a good thing too because I haven't heard many bad things about Tate.

Ziff72

August 21st, 2009 at 10:12 AM ^

I'm not a Michigan fan, because I'm asking about our Qb's progress??? Nice reasoning.

A. Reports are coming in that Denard has made several spectacular plays in practice.
B. Not much mention of Tate other than he did not have a very good scrimmage lately.
C. I ask a question if Denard is accomplishing these things against Brandon Graham or Jimmy Potempa as that would give me more information on wether Denard is closing the gap on Tate to start.

A+B+C= I'm Maurice Clarett and I stalk Tate on Facebook. Perfect reasoning.

Quail2theVict0r

August 21st, 2009 at 10:17 AM ^

• Quarterback Tate Foricer tossed a 40-yard touchdown pass to wide receiver Greg Mathews, which he out jumped the defender, in the left corner of the end zone.

• Quarterback Denard Robinson hit wideout Kelvin Grady along the right side of the end zone for a 23-yard touchdown.

Both mentioned exactly the same amount of times - with Forcier having the more impressive TD.

Quail2theVict0r

August 21st, 2009 at 11:05 AM ^

A 40 yard pass to the corner of the end zone shows some arm strength. The point was that both were still being represented. Also I'm pretty certain that it's easier to hit a wide open WR vs. making a catchable ball in the corner of the end zone - something we haven't seen since henne. I'm pretty sure I could hit an open receiver but I don't think I could ever throw a ball where the receiver could catch it an the DB couldn't.

Maize_and_Drew

August 21st, 2009 at 11:43 AM ^

Any QB can throw it 40 yards? Probably true, but not all can throw it 40 yards, on the money, in the back of the endzone where only the receiver can catch it.

You remember Braylon Edwards? That used to be a money play for us, but we also had a QB who could throw that pass.

Ziff72

August 21st, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^

Don't take this the wrong way if it sounds demeaining, but it sounds like maybe you haven't played much QB or WR during your career. All QB's can throw the ball 40yds or they don't play the position. Fade routes or Jump balls to the end zone do require some touch but most of the burden is on the receiver to adjust his body to wherever the ball is thrown and catch it. The QB's burden is to throw it on a high enough arc to allow the WR to catch it and don't underhtrow it so it can be intercepted. That is why in high school or unsophisticated passing schemes or young QB's you see them throw the fade a lot because it is an easy read for the QB. The hardest thing for a QB is to read the coverage and throw over the middle. Which is why Lloyd refused to let Chad throw over the middle until he got older which drove people insane watching replays seeing Ecker wide open.

Maize_and_Drew

August 21st, 2009 at 1:38 PM ^

Can't say as I disagree with you, but just to clear the air, I wasn't referring to the fade thrown from the 5 yard line. I was referring more to the 30-40 yard pass to the corner where the QB needs some skills to make the throw.

I know all QB's can throw the ball 40 yards, but not all can do it successfully. (See last year for examples)

griesecheeks

August 21st, 2009 at 10:27 AM ^

I don't care which QB starts, as long as that QB is the best at hitting wide open receivers in stride. Handling routine snaps would be nice, as well.

I almost want to go back to all the game tape last year just to find out how many open receivers/routine throws were missed by Threet and Sheridan, and how that might have changed our record.

If there's one thing we know for sure, it's that Tate is virtually automatic when it comes to completing the short, easy throws to open receivers. Yes, that's based off the spring game and practice clips. It doesn't matter who was defending (1st, 2nd, 3rd stringers). I'm talking about the most basic, low-level pitch & catch. A QB's ability to take what's given will be the first step to making this offense work.

I love the reports of Denard's speed and homerun threat, BUT, I don't think we can bank on that until we see him do it against hungry big-ten d's. The reports of him having accuracy issues concerns me, and would tend to make me desire to see Tate as our starter, for sure. I think both QB's will definitely get their opportunities, however. There's a lot to be excited about!

Magnus

August 21st, 2009 at 10:50 AM ^

Not only is Denard new, but everyone is infatuated with SPEED SPEED SPEED. It won't matter much how Denard is doing in practice when Tate Forcier is completing 65% of his passes for 3 TDs and 300 yards a game. Yee-haw.

TMayBG20

August 21st, 2009 at 11:26 AM ^

Why does it matter which QB does what to lead M to victory. If Tate does it by completing 65% of his passes while throwing for over 3,000 yards on the season, that's fantastic. If Denard does it while throwing for almost 2,000 yards and rushing for close to 1,000 more, that's fantastic. IT SHOULDN'T MATTER WHO DOES WHAT, AS LONG AS MICHIGAN WINS. I wouldn't have cared if it were Charles Woodson or James Whitley to win Heisman...as long as one of them did. Heck, we were all in aww of Drew Henson over Tom Brady, and look how that turned it out. Be a fan of M, be excited for anyone that excels. Enjoy watching the QB battle of TWO FAB FRESHMEN play out...

Magnus

August 21st, 2009 at 2:29 PM ^

I don't care if Mark Ortmann plays quarterback, as long as we win.

However, I believe Forcier is the better quarterback. That's why I would like to see him play. I was mostly joking with the 300 yards/3 TDs comment. If any of our QBs ran for -100 yards and threw 7 interceptions every game, I wouldn't care as long as we won.

Like I said, Tate is a better QB (in my opinion) and gives us a better chance to win. That's why I care.

Tim

August 21st, 2009 at 11:27 AM ^

"If we throw Denard in, opposing defenses will crowd the line expecting Denard to be a run first guy, which will reduce the effectiveness of the run game."

You do realize he's allowed to throw, right?

petered0518

August 21st, 2009 at 11:43 AM ^

Saying that he is run first does not imply that he can't throw, just that he will be more likely to run instead of going through every one of his receiving options, which is very common for young guys who are still learning an offense.

I also didn't say that Denard can't be good, my point is that if we put him in before he has a handle on the all the reads, the defense will be able to play tighter to the line. Once Denard shows that he can make the reads and hit open receivers then my point will be moot.

With Tate the defense will be expecting him to be pass first, and to have a better handle on the offense since he has been here longer. So that should give the running game a little bit more space to work with.

chitownblue2

August 21st, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^

It's amazing how many people definitively know the skill-set of these two players based on watching about 20 minutes of Tate and about 90 seconds of Denard.