QB battles
http://www.lostlettermen.com/2008/12/3-michigan-tate-forcier-vs-denard-robinson/
Just read this at Lost Letterman. Nothing earth shattering but they have a few Michigan ties on the list. Steven Threet at ASU (former player), Kevin Newsome (former recruit) and of course they have our own dynamic duo on the list.
I'm not sold on one guy running away with the job, at least not in the early part of the season. But I do think Denard gets a lot more run this year. We have two very good options this year. If, God forbid, one goes down with an injury I don't think the offense will skip a beat. Last year I think a lot of people were worried more about Tate going down due to Denard's perceived lack of throwing ability and knowledge of the offense. I think this year it is the opposite because Denard has improved and he is the more dynamic runner of the two.
Not that my epinion means anything. Looking forward to a wonderful football season. How many more days do we have to wait.
2 QBs
because their quarterbacks represented similar dynamics. one guy had a better fix on the long ball and pocket presence, the other was a short throw sprinter.
Wait, I'm confused. How is that different than Leak and Tebow?
One was Florida, one was LSU. Duh.
Tebow was more like a Jump passer/fullback.
There was a difference. The LSU situation was more of a true platoon whereas in Florida's case, Leak was clearly the starter and Tebow was the situational sub, brought in for the occasional Incredibly Surprising QB Draw.
Another QB platoon that worked out: OSU with Joe Germaine and Stanley Jackson in '96 and '97. While they lost to us both years, they went 11-1 and 10-3 overall.
Alabama also used a QB platoon in '99 when they won the SEC and played us in the Orange Bowl.
Florida too in 2006 with Leak and Tebow
edit: well-played JoeyB
Think back further -
Washington in 1992 - Hobert and Brunell.
Demetrius Brown and Michael Taylor. Michigan finished #4 in the country in 1988
Brady/Henson? ("Only" ended up #5...but really, who would you rather have quarterbacking...?).
I mean, really...I like 'em both.
Joe Montana had trouble winning the starting job at ND despite leading some incredible comebacks off the bench.
I wasn't rating Brady vs. Henson, as much as that combo with the Brown/Taylor one. Their team was ranked 4 vs. 5 for the latter team, but the QBing ability (and the importance of a QB in their respective offenses) wasn't close.
Funny, but my brain seems to have wiped out the memory of the '88 season. When I think of Brown and Taylor, all I remember is '87, when they pulled off the cri-fecta for the first time in the Schembechler era, losing to Notre Dame, Little Brother (behind 6 Brown INTs), and Ohio State (happened again in 2008, of course). That started the streak of 4 consecutive losses to ND, leaving the freshman class of 1987 the only Michigan class to lose 4 consecutive games to ND, meaning that any '87 freshmen who graduated in 4 years didn't see UM beat ND while enrolled. They also lost to Indiana for the first and only time since Schembechler took over in 1969.
But, yeah, 1988 was a much better year, both for Brown and Taylor as well as the team as a whole.
...a few more days several more hours until you get another There are... post.
I should have stopped right here: "Whichever sophomore wins the QB job at Michigan will either save or cost Rich Rodriguez his job." I didn't, though (d'oh), and found nothing that would qualify as thoughtful or well-researched.
Yes, two QB systems can work. That said, for every successful attempt to run the 2-QB system, there are many more failures. I like having two solid QBs on our roster, and may the best QB win out. I am not saying that we need to give 100% of the snaps to 1 QB, but something like a 75% / 25% split would be my preference. This way, there is an established QB, but at the same time, if that QB is either (1) injured, (2) struggling in a game, or (3) perhaps less suited to the defense being run by the opponent, the other guy can come in and be more than a back-up.
I remember Florida having some success with this type of split when Tebow was the "second" QB, right?
By the way, when I saw the title of this thread, I was totally expecting another "so who would you want to see starting against UConn, Denard or Tate?" thread. Pleasantly surprised.
fail is that both the QB's suck. The team is waiting for one or the other to emerge, and neither does - continuing competition. That's not the case with our guys. Both can be great, in different ways. They have to work to get there, but it will happen.
I know that there are several examples of a 2 QB system working in the past. The part that concerns me about our situation is that both of our QBs are in the same class. If you remember the Tebow/Leak combination it was a freshman/senior situation. Tebow knew that even though Leak was getting the majority of the snaps(sorry, I do not exact numbers) that he was going to be the man the next year. In our current situation neither one of our QBs can be confident about that. Further, if one or the other puts some distance between them the one that is left behind may be wondering about their place on the team. That is when we will start to hear rumors about transfers. I know that DG has all of the talent in the world but I would be a bit concerned with him becoming a starter in 2011 if Tate transfered out after this year and Denard goes down with an injury at the start of 2011.
I am probably thinking too far ahead at thios point but that is what the off season if for, isn't it?
primarily as a short yardage/goaline QB. For the rest, Chris Leak does the work.
2009 was a 80/20 split between Tate/Denard. I think 60/40 would be a better split if Denard really has improved.
I am leaning more towards looking forward to Denard playing over Tate, however, I am definately looking forward to there are "picture of Tate" days left more than there are "picture of Denard" days left.
I'm starting to think we need to hand out the #1 jersey to someone, simply for "There are..." countdown purposes.
because nobody wants to use his picture for a stoopid countdown...
Denard did not have a "perceived" lack of throwing ability/knowledge of the offense.
That lack of throwing ability/knowledge of the offense was very, very, very real.
I think the QB who can improve upon his 2009 inconsistencies will get the bulk of the snaps. Tate will need to reduce his turnovers and improve his zone read skills and Denard will need to improve upon his passing game. Denard will also need to improve his zone read skills, but he has a much better chance of breaking a big play even if it's defended well. In this case, I think that having 2 capable QBs is a good thing for 2010. I think the year to be concerned about getting reps is 2011 for the QBs as UM should have 3 capable QBs by then and not enough snaps to go around. Like I said though, I look forward to seeing a bit of competition at the QB spot this year. I think it will be fun to watch--especially if both Tate and Denard play well.
If we get to hear Matt Millen say, one more time, "There's a jock strap on the field, and it belongs to <insert opponent LB name here>." One of the best lines uttered by any commentator all of last season.
Fleming.
I was referring to the upcoming season, not the previous one. If Darius wants to reprise his role again this year, however, I'm all for it.
Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson are ultimately two entirely different QBs. I'd agree a bit with the Matt Flynn/Ryan Perriloux comparison but Denard is way better than Perriloux ever could have been.
Tate is going to be a pass-first dude who establishes some quick passes and some side-to-side plays to open up the run game once people are a couple steps back off the line. He's got a solid arm, not the biggest by any means so far but he's impressively accurate. He made some mistakes last season but didn't tend to outright miss his target. He doesn't have homerun speed on his own but he is fast enough to make a defense pay and get some big gains if there is a hole available for him.
Denard doesn't have Tate's accuracy - yet, and that sort of thing can be hard to coach - but does boast a cannon arm and superb speed. He did clean up his passing mechanics a lot, but at least for this season I think you are going to see defenses expecting the run and most of Denard's dangerous passes coming off play action. Long story short, he's going to draw people close and burn them deep when they commit too much to stopping our run game. Honesty though I think this kid overall has more potential even than Pat White - he's faster and has a stronger arm.
I honestly think you will see a lot of both players, but your offense is going to look more like a passing spread with Forcier at the helm and a bit more run-option with Denard at the helm, no matter how skills develop. If Forcier settles down though, I like him more at QB simply because he has great accuracy. I see a lot of your drew brees-style undersized passer that makes up with top-end accuracy in him, and that's what he's going to try to be. So long as those passes go to the right team, he settles down in the pocket a bit and limits the mental errors, I think he's the best guy on the field even though Denard has come so far.
That being said, Denard Robinson has physical tools to be an NFL passer if someone coaches him right.
If I were coaching this team, I'd use Tate Forcier on the first couple drives to build a bit of a lead, and then let Denard abuse what will then be an overly cautious defense. A ready, oppertunistic defense that can make big plays I think would hurt Denard more than Tate at this stage if you assume Tate is in full form. Naturally, you'd adjust to what you see also on film from the previous weeks as well and work similarly.
I'd agree a bit with the Matt Flynn/Ryan Perriloux comparison but Denard is way better than Perriloux ever could have been.
Whoa there. Perriloux was a five-star recruit, a huge get for Miles. Yes, in hindsight he didn't pan out (partly because he was a complete idiot off the field), but Denard has not yet proven anything more than him.
Nebraska won its first national championship with Jerry Tagge and Van Brownson at QB.
who could ever forget the immortal "Mini" Van Brownson.
How many more days do we have to wait?
T-minus... ...and counting...
I just want good ball control. Competition has served both QBs well through the Summer... though I seriously doubt Mich will reduce snaps - there will be less practice...I hope one guy takes the majority of the snaps from the starting center...at least through the UConn and ND games.
Losing games due to TOs is getting old.
I was hoping that this thread was about the Coner holding rap battles with Kennedy.
I'm also intrigued to see what we do with Gardner. Will we try to redshirt him? Ideally, I'd like to get through the year with just Tate and Denard, with maybe Jack Kennedy getting the mop-up snaps, but there is the potential problem of not having Gardner ready if the first two (heaven forbid) both get hurt.
Ideally, you'd want two years of Gardner after Tate/Denard graduate. I think the staff will do everything they can to redshirt Devin. If we lose our top two QB's to injury (or if any school does), we're fucked. In fact, let's not even mention that proposition again lest the Michigan QB Hating Gods hear of it and reign down pain.