Punt or Pass

Submitted by Wolverrrrrrroudy on
After watching it over, and with time to reflect, I think that was perhaps intended to be a pass play. It didn't look like Max Protect, the entire MSU team was rushing through to the punter, there was, on the top of the screen left of O'Neill, a receiver who turned back to look for the ball. It could be that O'Neill was thinking about passing which led to the botched handling of the ball, then his instincts kicked in and he tried to get off a kick.
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Blake O'Neill Punter

Olaf

October 18th, 2015 at 2:19 AM ^

I'm really not sure what kind of arm Blake has. Really seems like an unnecessary risk to be honest. Just punt the ball and we win. The time would almost run out by the time an MSU player could retreat back to grab it.

Joined: 09/22/2015

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Muttley

October 18th, 2015 at 2:21 AM ^

a pass.

I've seen Jamais Winston chuck it up into the air and out of the endzone to run out the clock w/ ~5 seconds left, but I don't think you could run off 10 seconds doing that.  Another option  would have been to force MSU to chase someone like Peppers between the numbers on all four downs.  But ESPN had the odds of MSU winning at 500-1 at that point, so I'm not going to second guess Harbaugh.

For MSU to win, O'Neill had to drop the snap AND try the Pele Bicycle Kick Punt.  Had he just went down after he picked it back up, we'd still be a 90% likely winner vunerable only to a Hail Mary.

Joined: 07/07/2009

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snarling wolverine

October 18th, 2015 at 8:49 AM ^

Watching it at the stadium, I thought he just mishandled the ball - I didn't know until later that he actually tossed it, and that it was caught by an MSU player. It's crazy how lucky they were. We nearly tackled the guy short of the goal line. If the toss by O'Neill hadn't been right to him - if it had hit turf and forced a scramble for the ball - they probably would not have advanced it all the way, if they'd even recovered. Why did he toss the ball? Was he hoping a teammate would punt it? I don't want to pile on him because he's an awesome punter and otherwise had a great game. I'm just confused about what he was trying to do right there.

Joined: 12/14/2011

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Pepto Bismol

October 18th, 2015 at 9:30 AM ^

He tried to still get the kick away. He picked it up, facing his own endzone and tried to whirl and kick it waist-high.  When he tossed it in the air to kick it, he got hit by the MSU rush - so the ball just kind of floated away.  I think his intention is pretty clear if you watch the replay.

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Die-Hard Michi…

October 18th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^

I'd agreed with that by falling on ball but ....neg - as MSU would have kicked a field goal but in my opinion that punter should have picked up that ball and running around to left side getting time expired

Joined: 10/04/2015

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Wolverrrrrrroudy

October 18th, 2015 at 2:27 AM ^

It would be great if someone could post Gif of the play. It doesn't seem like the formation you would take punting to no returner. Can someone confirm whether this was max punt protect? There seemed to be extra of our guys who weren't blocking anyone. I would expect the coaches knew that MSU was bringing everything they had. It didn't look like a terrible snap, so I'm thinking something else was on O'Neill's mind. Let's pretend that maybe it was supposed to be a pass. It would have certainly gone for a TD. But I do agree, safe money says punt away, on the other hand after rewatching it something just doesn't add up in terms of our formation. Given there were literally 11 guys rushing the punter, there is no way O'Neill could have done his typical run few steps and punt.

Joined: 11/30/2010

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J.

October 18th, 2015 at 4:08 AM ^

There was definitely an uncovered gunner to the left of the formation.  If O'Neill could have gotten the ball to him, he could have scored -- or waltzed forward for the game-winning first down.  All 11 MSU players were lined up in a punt block formation against a six-man line and three personal protectors.

I didn't understand Michigan's final timeout.  There was really nothing to be gained by avoiding the delay of game penalty on the last play -- you just gave O'Neill a slightly better angle, really. If they had kept the timeout, Harbaugh could have looked at the 11-on-6/11-on-9 and called timeout to rethink his approach.  Alas, it was not to be.

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SaigonBlue

October 18th, 2015 at 6:53 AM ^

Regarding your point on saving the last TO for as needed when in punt formation. They could have looked at their line up and adjusted accordingly. The amazing amount of MSU players left unblocked won them the game.

 

Joined: 08/27/2010

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schreibee

October 18th, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^

WTF would it take for people on here to NOT blame the refs, or the opponent, for our F-ups?
We wasted our last TO; we subsequently went into the wrong formation for their block attempt; we still could've taken a delay and re-set 5 yds further back but with better protection.
Our punter - who I called The Weapon all game after his 80 yd punt - obviously shouldn't drop the snap, but SHOULD'VE been coached on how to handle it if something goes wrong with the snap.
The refs WERE horrible, sparty always DOES skirt the rules of both the game & society, and it took the most amazing confluence of events for THAT to happen - but this is an experience this team and this staff can learn from and grow from.
A Verrry Painful Lesson!

Joined: 11/02/2009

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Pepto Bismol

October 18th, 2015 at 9:41 AM ^

If you think he could have taken a delay of game on 3rd down, then he still could have on 4th down.  Harbaugh still could have looked at the "11-on-6/11-on-9" and taken delay of game to rethink his approach.  Once the decision to punt was made, 5 yards didn't matter.

The timeout was taken after 3rd because, per Harbaugh's own words, they were considering going for it.  When considering that decision, 5 yards (4th & 3 vs. 4th & 8) definitely mattered a helluva lot more.

I didn't get the punt formation either.  There were actually 2 gunners IIRC, and MSU was covering the guy on the near side for some reason - but not the top.  I would think a more max protect look was in order considering no returner.

Regardless, a clean catch, one step and a 20 yard shank punt, the ball rolls dead and the game was over.  And watching the replay, without the bobble MSU wouldn't even have been close to a block.

(Sigh)

 

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Michigan4Life

October 18th, 2015 at 2:28 AM ^

he said that the last punt play was a bad call by Harbaugh. He said that rugby formation is a terrible formation to use against an all out block. He mentioned that the O'Neill started to go to his right before the snap and had to rushed it hence the dropped snap. He said that they shouldn't have to worry about rugby style since there's no one returning it and all they have to do is do a standard punt and just kick the ball then they win.

When I pointed out that they had one gunner with no one covering him, he said he didn't noticed it until I pointed it and said that it reinforced his point even more.

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bigmc6000

October 18th, 2015 at 7:40 AM ^

That was my thought, line up with two wide outs and if they leave them open take the easy pass and the win. If they cover them make sure you've got two guys next to the QB to block and have Rudock pooch it. It makes me wonder if Rudock knows how to punt because that's the obvious choice and the only way to make sure they don't run 11 guys at the punter



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SaigonBlue

October 18th, 2015 at 2:28 AM ^

Not only was the left side of the line outnumbered but they whiffed on their blocks. Even if Blake gets the snap cleanly, he was going to be under a lot of pressure to get the punt off.

Unfortunately a lot of fail by the punt team, which as we know has been a strength of the team up until that play.

Joined: 08/27/2010

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feanor

October 18th, 2015 at 2:51 AM ^

I avoided watching any replays until now. So many things went wrong on one play. UM guys releasing blocks to get downfield when no one was back, gunners blocking no one, the low snap, the muffed catch, the attempted ninja punt into in stride pass to MSU. Even after all that, if they call the holding on the one Michigan player with a chance to tackle Michigan still wins. We were punting out of a timeout. This is more on Baxter than it is on O'Neil. FUCK

Joined: 09/27/2011

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sadeto

October 18th, 2015 at 3:28 AM ^

Poor coaching on the last series. First down, Higdon runs and trips. I know you can't blame the kid for tripping, but you need your number one back in there, the more experienced runner. Then you call timeout when they put 11 on the line and respond by doing exactly what the opponent wants you to do. Should have put Rudock in with two wideouts and Peppers lined up behind him. Force the defense to cover and just pooch punt it or hit the open receiver. Blake O'Neil always runs to his right and they stacked that side of the line. It was an improbable play but it was the only chance State had and we gave it to them.

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snarling wolverine

October 18th, 2015 at 9:01 AM ^

Higdon's carry was on the previous possession. Smith carried it three times on this one. I agree that a pooch kick would have been a nice call. Another idea would be to have whomever takes the snap to just run around for several seconds and then heave it downfield as time expires. But this was a crazy fluke. You have to expect your punter can get it off. The one real coaching criticism I have is that we weren't in max-protect. That I don't understand.

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Wolverrrrrrroudy

October 18th, 2015 at 6:39 AM ^

They did have a whole lot of help from the officials. The officials seemed to be calling against Michigan at game changing moments. The targeting was the most egregious, but the pf against Henry was also a game changer, along with not a catch for Butt. There were others. I will look to Brian's detailed analysis.

Joined: 11/30/2010

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mGrowOld

October 18th, 2015 at 7:23 AM ^

Having watched repeated games stolen from Michigan v MSU by the officials (1990, 2001, 2015) I am convinced that the officials empathize and relate far more on a personal level to MSU than they do Michigan which is why they are the beneficiaries of seemingly every 50/50 call there is.

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snarling wolverine

October 18th, 2015 at 10:04 AM ^

Yeah, and it was Rudock's facemask at that.  It was in the 4th quarter, on the 3rd down play where the pass was tipped back to Rudock.  

I couldn't believe they missed that.  Officials usually are extra-protective of QBs.  It ended up not directly costing us, because we did get a defensive stop after, but it would have been a first down and perhaps we could have gone on to score or kill the clock on that drive.  

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JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

October 18th, 2015 at 7:46 AM ^

John O"Neill or whatever the fuck his name is sure looked like he was on the take.

He even announced that one penalty (On a punt) on us and another ref had to run in and tell me what are you fucking talking about, its on msu.  

Guy looked to be on the take to feed his drug addiction.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were empty needles in the refs' lockeroom trash.  

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