Nice strawman. We aren't talking about reporting your buddy for stealing a pack of gum in the fifth grade. It a guy raping a 10 year old! Have you read the grand jury report?
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
Nice strawman. We aren't talking about reporting your buddy for stealing a pack of gum in the fifth grade. It a guy raping a 10 year old! Have you read the grand jury report?
Nothing is black and white? How about this: you're an adult. You witness another adult raping a child.
Uh, I'd call that pretty effing black and white.
And guess what? Yeah, I'd call the police. I hope I'd have the goddam courage to beat the living shit out of the mother f*cking rapist and save the child, even before I called the police.
From what I read after the GA incident JS got his keys to the facilities taken away by Curley or something like that. However, he didn't go far enough and pretty much ended it there.
I don't think that's accurate. I think they told him he couldn't bring kids to the PSU faciliities and contacted his children's charity. After an earlier report in which campus police investigated, I belive they told him he couldn't shower with kids or something. Deplorable.
I read the story and only got through victim #1, it's deplorable.
This is the actual title - not an Onion story - of Jerry Sandusky's autobiography:
before someone is actually found guilty. Unfortunately, in the past kids have been coached to lie in circumstances like this. I am not saying that is what is going on here, but it has happened.
But if true, shame on everyone involved. Sandusky deserves a special place in Hell for his alleged deeds. Paterno, WTF where you thinking?
There are eight victims, all of whom tell very similar stories.
Who "coached" the former GA (now believed to be Mike McQueary!!) who reported seeing Sandusky having anal sex with a ten year old boy in the shower?
and the GA told his father that very night and met wtih JoePa the next day. These actions carry a ton of weight when determining credibility years later.
Oh, and who told the Vietnam vet janitor who witnessed oral sex in the PSU showers? Again, the janitor told his boss and co-workers that night and they feared he would have a heart attack b/c he was that upset. Credible.
This is sick. This is more than sick. This is WAY worse than any pay for play scandal. We're talking about young boys. Pre-teen boys. I may be in college, but my brother is still 11. The thought of some man taking advantage of someone my brother's age sickens me to no end. And then to know people knew, and the cops weren't told?! What is wrong with them?
Penn State has to clean house. Anyone that knew has to go. That includes Joe Pa. Yes, he may have told the AD as he was supposed to, but how could he not call the cops? How could he be a man of such "honor" or "integrity" and not bring Sandusky to justice? It's hard to believe that the Joe Pa era could end like this, but it has to. Joe Pa must lose his job.
What is this, Stalin's Russia? Why don't you permit the system to work before rendering judgments?
Our nation's legal history is filled with people falsely accused. Knowing this I think it wise we wait until Sandusky has been given his day in court before damning this man and the rest of PSU to hell.
innocent before being proved guilty only works within the court of law...not the court of public opinion...and the recounts of what happen is not going to help anything. Should he be drawn and quartered before his trial...no, but in reality, he is already guilty
Which is precisely why I've been saying that those "in a position to know" shouldn't be condemned without at least putting a little thought into it or knowing what they knew. The consequences of reporting, and being wrong, are severe, as they should be.
your point is valid, I really do get it, but if the grand jury report is true, then they should all go to jail.
Most importantly, I believe it should be made clear that you DO report, almost without any reservation, when you have any reason to believe something improper has happened. You don't need proof. You just report your experience / what your heard / the red flags that you've felt. Report no more, but no less. Let the police do their job. When police get multiple reports without evidence, they will start handling these reports with much greater focus and action.
I have worked with abused kids and their families for many years. The failure to report, mostly b/c of the reasons you stated above in combination with the fact that the accused is almost always a trusted/respected individual (priest, coach, family memeber, etc), causes so many more chidlren to become victims b/c these devils are still free to prey.
If someone saw Bo or Hoke or ??? having sex with your 10 year old son, and nothing happened, would it be OK? Or if someone saw one of their assistants and told Bo or Hoke, but nothing happened, it would be OK? No way in hell is it acceptible.
After any of these people knew what happened, and they still saw Sandusky walking around a free man and involved with his children's charity, they had every moral obligation to follow through to see what the hell was happening. They might have followed through with their legal obligations by telling someone (I assume the trial will tell us this) - but morally, you hear this dude had sex with a ten year old or you actually SAW this, you don't just ignore it for years.
GA (word is that it is WR coast McGreary) did the right thing by immediately contacting someone (his father) and thus is very credible. He then met with JoePa. That must have been incredibly f'n hard to do. The report stats that he was completely traumatized by this. But I blame him as well. You're telling me that if you see this and tell your superiors about it, but nothing is done, that you'd be OK with it? No. You have an obligation. I'd beat the shit out of him if that were my son. Of course we don't know whose son that was - they never even attempted to follow up on that poor child. Per the grand jury report, it is assumed that he is not one of the listed victims.
He was just another faceless victim, a 10 year old, left abused by those in society who were most powerful and most respected. Powerful and respected no more.
If these were just some half-cocked allegations with a ton of holes in the story, I'd be with you.
This seems rather clear-cut.
Don't try to be different just to be different, it makes you seem sympathetic to a pedophile.
he's not guilty yet, but I believe he is and will discuss it from that viewpoint.
Oh, and read the grand jury report and then get back to us. Too many credible witnesses.
Joe Pa gets the all time wins record and this story now blows up. There's a lot more to this story. Just say'in.
I actually have no idea what your point is. Please explain.
The author is right, this is way way way more disgusting and warped than anything oSU or any other program has done w it's football program.
If this is true, PSU should honestly get the death penalty. If there was ever a proper circumstance to use it, this is it.
This will tarnish their program and Joe Pa's legacy forever...you just can't come back from something like this. Wow.
(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).
Legally, Paterno's responsibility was to notify the "person in charge of the institution" or a designated agent. I don't think outsiders have enough access to Penn State's HR site to know what the procedure is here or who the designated agent might have been.
Despite what's been written in the thread above, he didn't have a legal responsibility to directly notify the police. His ethical responsibilities are another matter.
Thanks for the research. I was one of those who raised the issue legal based on (as I noted) Michigan law. PA law is different and, based on that, Paterno seems to be legally in the clear for the failure to report. Ethically - its, as you point out, a different matter.
...is that its clear from the law that the situation they're trying to address is one in which someone working with kids begins to suspect, from physical or behavioral clues, that a child might be a victim of abuse. While it may be the applicable law, it was never intended--nor were institutional procedures modeled on the law intended--for a situation where the abuse was going on right there in front of you.
Sorry for shouting. But that's why the legal obligations here are so distant from what seems ethically appropriate.
is absolutely disgusting and makes me violently ill. May all those involved get what's coming to them.
Ped State University (TM). "They licked us" JoePa would say after losing games.... Queue the youtubes.
Dude! Waaaaaay too soon.
WTF is wrong with you?
The GA reported it to his boss (Paterno) and Paterno in turn reported it to his boss (Curley). Curley said he would take care of it asap and would do an in depth investigation.
This only goes to further my belief that everyone is dirty but us.
You're/we're probably dirty as well, if not worse. That's just reality.
I was discussing these episodes of Breaking Bad with my brother the other day. This clip captures the main point.
“I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way”
This is where Paterno and his superiors failed. They tried to approach this situation with half measures. Paterno did so by just following procedure and reporting it without apparent follow-up. The AD was worse; all he did was look into it and ban Sandusky from bringing kids on campus. Regardless of legal requirements and administrative rules this situation required full measures.
There was a credible report that a highly respected member of the Penn State community, and an individual who was running a charity for at risk kids, was sexually abusing those kids. Full measures were needed. They should have reported this to highest law enforcement official possible, the attorney general of PA in my opinion; they were themselves powerful people, he would have taken their call.
Paterno, the AD and anyone else who knew, failed to take the full measures necessary to protect those who needed the most help in this situation, the kids. The failed to do what was right and should step up and admit as much. They cannot change what happened but they can stand up and admit the mistakes they made.
Penn State failed to protect the young boys Sandusky was abusing. The athletic department was minimally compliant at best, actively covering up the problem at worst. Clearly the repeated pattern didn't register with anyone in a position of authority.
I can't imagine how the players must feel, knowing that these crimes went on in their very facilities.
I'm hard-pressed to think of an uglier college sports story than this one. How could anyone with even a shred of a conscience look the other way on something like this? Unforgivable.
I delivered mail and had interactions with many of the staff at the time. It freaks me out that this was going on one floor above where I worked. Initially, I thought it was one person trying to shakedown Sandusky for $$ because he did a lot of charity work in the area at the time.
Now I know that the charity work was a predator stalking his prey. Bringing these kids to the complex was a perfect place since access was strictly controlled. It makes me very upset that I undoubtedly had interactions with the janitors and GA's who are mentioned in the GJ testimony.
As far a JP, at the least he should be done coaching...right now, not at the end of the season, or even the end of the week. But that's not how it's gonna work. Seriously, telling him not to bring boys around the complex anymore!?!
"Whatever you have done to little children you have done to me"
This makes St Tressel's actions look very innocent in comparison. Heck, there isn't an NCAA violation that can compare. I also am 100% certain this was held until the bye week @ PSU.
It more shows that JoePa doesn't do or know anything that is going on around him. He is a senile old man, that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too respected in my opinion. Of course he has that many wins, he's been there forever! Penn State needs to move on, every season they put off Paterno retiring, they set themselves back another year in the future.
This is unbearably painful for me to hear. These are kids and the story was ignored for football, or friendship or whatever the reasons. There is no reason for any of this. These were children. These people can rot in hell.
Penn State should of moved on from JoePa along time ago, but now the post JoePa era is going to make our RichRod Era look like a walk in the park. reading this this is the nuclear bomb for that program
There is nothing about this that doesn't have a tragic angle. I've hated Penn State for years but I always respected and liked JoePa, even if he didn't appear to be with it the past few seasons. This whole mess from a moral angle, really tarnishes what I thought of him.
I feel horrible for the victims. And I imagine this has got to feel horrible for the PSU family who loved and admired this man for so many years, even after he retired. One of my favorite all time victories was the Tom Brady 4th quarter comeback over PSU in 1999, which happened to be Jerry Sandusky's final game at Beaver Stadium. I saw the endless shots of fans holding up banners saying how much they were going to miss this man and Musberger feeling bad that he had to lose his last home game. I thought he seemed like a nice guy. It's weird to combine that image with these accusations.
I just finished reading the grand jury report and I'm absolutely sick to my stomach - BUT NOT AT JOE PATERNO. I realize that most people are bitter and angry at the sick and pathetic state of their lives, and they like to tear down those who've accomplished much in their lives and done so without being ridiculous prima donas who are glory hounds and constantly need adulation, bigger houses, bigger cars, numerous mistresses, etc.
Let's remember a few things - a grand jury is convenied to see if the evidence warrents criminal charges being filed. from what I read, it's clear there was sufficient evidence that prompted filing charges and bringing this case to trial against Sandusky. Through the course of the grand jury hearing, they also felt that certain Penn State officials were cupable in a potential cover-up of the situation. AT NO POINT DOES THE GRAND JURY REPORT INDICATE EVEN A SLIGHT AMOUNT OF CONSIDERING BRINGING CHARGES AGAINST JOE PATERNO. Therefore, we can assume, according to investigations conducted, information collected, testimony heard, and decisions rendered, the LEGAL SYSTEM IN PLACE FELT THAT JOE PATERNO did nothing illegal. I don't even read in the report where they felt that he might have been part of a cover-up, but they didn't have enough evidence to bring formal charges and take the case to court. It seems as if they are content with Paterno's testimony, it's validity and consistency with the law.
What happened is horrible, disgusting, and unacceptable. Perhaps PA laws do require reporting to a special agency. And how many of you know who and where to report it to. Again, what I read is that Paterno received an account from a graduate assistant and forwarded it along. Now, in the report, we don't even know if the GA gave a word for word account, a summary or what. It's quite possible that Paterno simply forwarded on to the AD what he thought he was told. The telephone game is in play here. Once something is second hand, it's gets distorted unintentionally. Simple reality. Paterno mentioned fondling and something of a sexual nature. That's bad enough and enough to communicate the severity of the situation.
I'm not sure why Paterno didn't follow up, or if it would have made any different. ITS CLEAR THE AD COVERED UP THE ALLEGATIONS WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT THAT EVEN IF PATERNO INQUIRED FURTHER, THAT THE AD WOULDN'T HAVE LIED TO PATERNO?
If you are objective, you realize that Paterno did what he thought he was supposed to do, much like the situation was an athletic violation. Should he have done more is another question, but I think the reality is, he wasn't involved in a cover up, or trying to protect a friend. If that was the case, he'd have told the GA to forget about it and never went to his boss.
If you are unable to be objective and want to tear down Joe Paterno, you're a pathetic disgrace of a human being and you'll read whatever you want to read into the report. You'd be absolutely wrong, and a moron like most people employed at the Washington Post, but that's your life you have to deal with.
Don't tell me I'm not objective.
I have always had the greatest respect for Penn State and Paterno. I now am beyond disgusted by both. Paterno has utterly failed at leadership by not making sure, whatever the hell it took, that no further boys were abused.
Whether or not he fulfilled his legal obligation is beside the point in my view. He allowed more young boys to be brutalized.
The reality is he did his job and reported what he received from a graduate assistant coach to his bosses and let them do the investigation. What would you have liked him to do? Besides reporting it to the police ... which he probably assumed would have happened once reported to the AD, there was little he could do.
He received second hand information that Sandusky had raped a boy. Did he see the action? No. So lets assume he inquires of the situation again - to the AD? And the AD tells him what? We investigated it and found the claims were wrong? Okay, paterno pushes the issue. The AD tells him to shut up and go back to coaching football games or as many on these blogs like to assume, go take a nap while your staff prepares the team. Either way, he doesn't get very far.
Perhaps Joe is from a different era when he assumes that when someone says they'll investigate it, they do. Perhaps it was the seriousness of the issue that led him to believe it would be thoroughly investigated. I simply don't know.
But you are looking at the situation from hindsight. My suspicisions if you had been in Joe's shoes at the time, you'd have done the same. You can say you wouldn't have, but history is a strong reminder of our tendency to have whiggish attitudes about those who came before us. I'd have never done that. No, you'd have done worse, and so would I.
Now, if you'd like to say Joe made an error in judgement, that's perfectly fine. But when you say he allowed them to be brutalized (notice the word you used), you clearly indicate you're not objective.
Or, we can simply look at the facts as reported by a grand jury, their non-consideration of bringing charges on Paterno and take away the simple fact that your completely wrong, and those involved in the case and investigation know more than you do. It is possible that you're not all knowing.
Do you still think you're objective?
I would say there was nothing LESS that he could have done that what he did. Given what we know so far, Paterno did the absolute minimal thing that he had to do without actually committing a crime himself.
If you're OK with that, well, I can't help you.
But I was taught that doing the minimal thing isn't good enough.
dude, you are what's wrong with so much in this world. I hope you are never in a position of power where you have to chose between doing what's right and doing the minimal that you are legally obliged to do.
I have a feeling that if it were your 10 year old in that shower, you'd have a very different opinion on JoePa doing "his job."
You may be right - he may have committed no crime.
But you will still be so very, very wrong.
Your post is so over the top and rife with hypocrasy that it lacks any shred of reason. You call people who jump to comclusions some pretty inflamatory things, yet you declare with absolute certainty thing you can not possibly know.
"If you are objective, you realize that Paterno did what he thought he was supposed to do"
"I think the reality is, he wasn't involved in a cover up, or trying to protect a friend"
You can't know these things, or many of the other things you assert.
You say, "I realize that most people are bitter and angry at the sick and pathetic state of their lives..."
I guess someone with that worldview would post something like this...
First, spell check - it's a great thing to use. Hypocrisy ....
If you don't like me criticizing your spelling, I guess I have a right to consider you a jerk for questioning my line of thought.
You are correct, I cannot know why you and other bloggers here want to crucify Joe Paterno. However, after years on blogs and seeing these comments, it's hard not to realize that people are envious of others and love nothing more than to see them torn down. If you doubt that, look at the joy people get when the political, celebrity, sports hero of the day makes a mistake.
I'll agree, my categorization of most of you on this blog was unfair. However, I stand by my claims that the only way to vilify Joe Paterno in this and read into him be derelict of his duties is by having a bias going into the situation.
I can know he wasn't involved in a cover up. He reported it to his superiors. A cover up by Paterno would have involved any of the following requirements:
1) Not reporting what the GA coach told him.
2) Following up with the AD to change his story
3) Changing his story if called in by the AD
4) Evidence of previous events occurring that Paterno was clearly notified about and in which the claims were substantiated
5) A GRAND JURY INDICTMENT.
The facts support my conclusion very clearly.
Poor judgment on Joe's part. Possibly. Not what you would have done - apparently. Worth firing a legend, probably not. Education and putting in place a procedure on all campuses to make sure all employees are clear what to do in the event of an allegation - definitely. Slandering a football coach who a court of law never considered pursuing legal action against - idiotic.
I almost stopped reading after you equated mispelling and the "logic" in your post, but finally made it to and stopped at you admitting "You are correct..."
Thanks for the admission.
best case yet for the return of the NegBang
You, my friend, leap to the very conclusions you rant against.
I have no prior ill towards PSU or JoePa. I have inlaws who went there, I visit the area regularly, I always had a positive image of JoePa. But now I see him as a powerless, stuck-in-his-world old man. He couldnt fathom how to deal with this.
He is like a lot of Catholic heirarchy facing the same problems in their organization -- and ironically JoePa is a model Catholic to many Pa residents. The evil is so unfathomable to them, they couldnt comprehend how to respond but instead defaulted to doing nothing. And no I dont harbor hatred for Catholics, I am one and my kids go to Catholic grade school.
JoePa should be suspended. But no one will do that -- his boss and his boss's boss have their career on the line here too. If not their lives.
Just curious. I won't read that report, as I am not sure I could stomach it. But I just saw a tweet that apparently these kids were staying with Sandusky in hotel rooms for away games on PSU's dime. How does a 12 year old kid stay in a hotel with a grown man and the parents don't know? How did this dude orchestrate it so that these kids were allowed alone with him? I don't get it and I really don't want to have to dig through that report trying to find answers.
It wasn't just for away games. These boys also stayed in Sandusky's hotel room for bowl games as well. And there many, many times where they slept over at Sandusy's house in his basement.
From what I could finish of that report, the boys who were part of "the Second Mile," came from absent or dysfunctional families. So, I'm guessing the victims parents had their own issues in regards to noticing anything suspicious with these constant sleepovers. Again, just a guess. I could be wrong.
A random and bizarre mention in that report? A feature on Sandusky was written in Sports Illustrated about his retirement in 1999, and one of the pictures in the article shows him posing with one of his victims.