Prison is waaay to lenient of a punishment for this guy.
that makes one of us
Prison is waaay to lenient of a punishment for this guy.
he won't enjoy the coming ''soap battles" much.
hopefully PSU fans will not refer to Ann Arbor as a "whore". Now that this situation has been further detailed they don't even want to hear my response.
If I were a Penn State alumnus, I'd be starting a petition to boot the university president after a comment like this (from the story linked in the OP):
“I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support,” Penn State President Graham Spanier said in a statement, which an athletic department official said would be the school’s only comment on the matter. “I have known and worked daily with Tim and Gary for more than 16 years. I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former University employee.”
That's insane circle-the-wagons shit. Somebody with power at PSU needs to stand up and be a man and at least pretend to show more concern for the (at this point) alleged victims than the university officials. If they were told about the allegations and didn't report, they are guilty. And that does go to JoePa, too. There's a reason the laws were written the way they were, to make it a crime to not report allegations of child abuse.
What on Earth compels university presidents to say things like this when their employees are facing a scandal? Does it give them some kind of a legal out when they do drop the hammer?
Steven Levy is probably one of the more prominent PSU alumni, and he seems to be the appropriate amount of righteously pissed: https://plus.google.com/109074857816744029470/posts/113gp4CQXXA
I would be cutting ties and condemning everyone involved.
Its a public university, someone should be starting up a campaign for trustee with the platform of sweeping out everyone who had contact with this disaster.
that Paterno reported this incident immediately and did everything correct within the compounds of compliance. If JoePa did everything right, he should not bear the responsibilities of the disgusting former DC or idiot AD.
PSU is a great college town, and I've never had a bad time going to a game there. I hope nothing further surfaces that could damage a great program.
That's an NCAA or University word... Unfortunately, if he didn't go to the police, he didn't follow through appropriately and is to be held accountable. The PA Police doesn't give a crap about compliance, nor should they.
But he did what he was trained to do and the athletic department tried to cover it up. This is not a failure on JoePa's part, but a failure on the athletic department and finance committee to report this guy.
At the end of the day, I do think this is JoePa's last year because it'll be too much for him to bear, but his record will go untarnished. Remember PSU is one of four BCS programs to have never gone in front of the NCAA for violations of rules.
Obviously this is something of a different breed, but in no way should JoePa or the university absorb the brunt of this. The best way to hurt these assholes is to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.
I wasn't trained, but I know to call the police...no questions asked...you would think someone 'wiser' than me would know better
a correct assessment of this. If that's all he was trained to do, then shame on PSU administration for not properly educating their employees.
ANYONE (from the Grad Asst on) who deals with kids/schools/public/private as part of their regular job is required to both: 1) call the authorities (or PA's special child abuse hotline), and 2) follow up their initial contact with a written report (likely so that descriptions of events don't get watered down along the way and others can't say "that's not what i was told").
It's part of PA Code of Law. Neither was done here by anyone who touched this at PSU. There is no "I told someone more improtant" clause.
The only one who should escape this is the janitor who witnessed one incident, b/c it could be deemed dealing with kids is not part of his normal job/duties.
of the asshats who covered this up. Unless the president is fired within the week, the university absolutely should absorb the brunt of this.
They give these guys a 15 to life sentence is enough for me.
JoePa didn't lie in a grand jury report, he didn't commit any crimes. He reported it, while he could've done a better job obviously, he didn't violate any crimes.
He'll likely get off b/c he's a "coach", not an administartor; and he's old and deemed likely not cognizant enough to know the law. Probably best for him to just fade away, but still NOT an excuse.
Sometimes you don't have to "do" anything to commit a crime/violate a law, sometimes "not doing" anything violates it. He's as "guilty" as the rest, not just "did a bad job". I'm not sure what part of "it's a PA Code of Law you MUST report" you don't consider broken when you don't do it...
How in the world can you think, at a minimum, that the University shouldn't be held accountable? That's an incredible view to hold. I cannot imagine any argument that would support that view.
Let me ask you this hypothetical question. Imagine the allegations are correct. Also imagine that your son was a victim of this man. Also imagine that the victimization of your child began after Joe Pa learned of what Sandusky was doing, could have stopped it by calling the cops, but didn't.
After imagining that, please re-read your posts. (Also note - there may be one or more parents who do not have to imagine any of that.)
Here is the question - do you honestly still feel that Joe Paterno's actions are above reproach even if they fulfilled his legal duties (which seems to be an open question.)
I am not trying to be a internet jerk here. I am interested in your reply.
1) Paterno didn't just hear about the incident. The GA who witnessed an attack chose to report it to directly to Paterno. He did so by coming to Paterno's house and was reportably and understandably quite upset. I would think that would make a greater impression than to just follow procedure and report (a watered down version) to the AD. Under those circumstances not following through further seems unforgiveable. Remember too that he almost certainly had some knowledge of earlier accusations.
2) PSU should indeed bear the brunt of this case. This didn't just involve a former assistant coach allegedly committing crimes against children multiple times at PSU facilities. Multiple attacks were witnessed by PSU employees. Absolutely no one at PSU showed any serious interest in stopping this alleged pedophile. At best they told him to do it somewhere else. After doing nothing to stop him, what is PSU's response when the state attorney is investigating the case? It's been to lie and cover up. The head of the athletic department and the overseer of the campus police have been charged with felonies in relation to the case and have the outspoken and unqualified support of the president. While the criminal cases have yet to be proven it certainly looks like high officials at PSU preferred to enable a pedophile and hinder an investigation over subjecting the school to some bad press.
Joe Pa did the absolute minimum.
He didn't call the police.
He didn't follow up when nothing happened to Sandusky.
He still let Sandusky hang around the program for years.
He let Sandusky bring other kids to PSU football events.
He's already wasting people's time and money by pretending to be a coach. He should step down immediately.
I also loved my visits to PSU. Great fans and great school with a rich football tradition.
None of that matters. The fact that they basically covered this up and didn't make sure this was reported to police is horrible. This is similar to the Catholic Church cover ups.
This monster was destrying young troubled childrens lives, what part of that dont you understand? The university did not report this to the police and you think thats sufficient!? How about trying to stop this evil predator from continuing his actions and protecting these innocent boys?
You either dont understand what was happening or you are a pathetic human being.
I usually try to maintain an "innocent until proven guilty" attitude, but this looks really bad. I am guessing Joe Pa "retires" after this season. I would also imagine that, even though Sandusky is long gone from the program and there will be no NCAA probation, he will become PSU football's Ed Martin.
Any opposing recruiter who wants to elimiate PSU from a prospect's list will simply say to the prospect's parents, "It sure is a shame what happened with that assistant coach at Penn State," and it will probably work for a few years.
My hope in cases like this, innocent or guilty, is that the system gets the verdict right, and that justice is done. If the charges are correct, Sandusky could do a lot of people a favor by taking the old-school Japanese way out and letting his last "deviant act" be seppuku.
I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Trying to wait til the justice system gives this its due diligence, but right now, it looks really really bad.
PSU fans/alums should boycott the games. Stay home and see how the message of an almost empty stadium plays. Seriously Joe Pa should be gone now - this week.
In everything I read, people seem to be conflating two issues:
1) Did JoePa do the minimum of what he needed to do legally? The answer is likely yes. I work at a PA college and JoePa is likely a "mandatory reporter" of sexual miscondict and he did report it to his boss. That is the minimum of what he needs to do.
2) Did JoePa do what he SHOULD have done? Not likely. After reporting it up he should have followed up aggressively after it took time for his boss to "look into" the matter. If no report was made to the poilice, he should have made one himself. He might not be required to do that legally, but it would have been the right thing to do. If JoePa is sleeping well given what he did(n't) do, then the reputation he has cultivated as a "good/moral guy" is phony.
Great distinction between his statutory obligations and his implied responsibilities as the de facto moral leader of the PSU athletic dept. (As we know from 3 and out, the moral center of an athletic dept is not always its AD!)
Yet another example of a person being touted as a moral leader who is not. I know for a fact that no matter how busy I am I would not just simply report something like this and then let it go. Not the first time and certainly not the second time.
For someone who is supposed to be all about the kids and shaping young men, this is a total disgrace. How can anyone argue that shaping young men includes not following through on an alleged sexual crime against a child. What a joke! Way to be a role model.
This is the most level-headed post here as far as I can tell. People saying that he plainly broke the law, plainly haven't read any of the articles that explain the PA law here.
However, I will add that the facts regarding #2 haven't come out yet. We don't know if he followed up, or how hard he followed up. He could have been given the run around, or been lied to. I wouldn't put any amount of deceit past the PSU administration at this point. We do know that Sandusky was barred from using the PSU facilities after those allegations, and Paterno would have been involved in that.
I hope Paterno is innocent in all of this, but needless to say the 8 victims deserve justice more than Paterno deserves his reputation.
He was banned from bringing his prey, he was not banned from the buildings. Joe PA knew something happened in 1998 and then in 2002 he hears about anal sex with a 10 year old IN HIS FOOTBALL building and he does nothing except tell his boss. Espn has an article up now, Sandusky was banned from psi facilities today. Yes today. Spin that.
Carcajous has it exactly right -- Paterno did what he had to do, but did he do what he should have done? Can we expect that Paterno had never encountered this before?
Here's a bitterly unknowing article from SI in 1999: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017979/index.htm
last line from this article...
"Here's the best thing you can say about Jerry Sandusky. He's the main reason that Penn State is Linebacker U.....and linebackers aren't even his enduring legacy."
Yes, that will be that his is a sexual deviant.... Reading this article and know what is going on now, makes this fluff piece, just a disgrace....
Wow reading that knowing the allegations, sure puts some depth and motivation to things. "Saint Sandusky."
Figures that the clueless Matt Millen would once again appear shoveling undeserved praise on someone.
The university president needs to go, along with the AD. To staunchly defend anyone complicit in a situation like this shows that you're only trying to protect the brand. Child abuse of this magnitude - of any magnitude - is not trading tattoos for memorabilia. You never defend this, or any part of this. You say something like, "We will look closely look at the situation, and let law enforcement do its job. We take this seriously, and will not comment until the facts come to light." Come on, PSU president guy.
I personally feel bad for JoePa.... Should have retired years ago. There is no way that he ends his career on a high note after this, regardless of whether or not he "did the right thing" or not.
Secondly- Penn State Football has some serious image problems right now. Their athletic department makes Bill Martin's tenure look like a well oiled machine. I cannot see how any recruit would want to go okay for a coach who is 2 feet from an old folks home. Yeah, seeing him wave his cane at the pep rallies is cute and heartwarming, but it is so ridiculous..... The fact that the AD doesnt have a coach in waiting or succession plan is absurd to me.
Add in a sexual misconduct scandal, with young boys no less..... It looks like its gonna be a rough road for Penn State football.
Makes the days of RichRod and stretch gate look like paradise.
Why does being old give someone a free pass? If this is true, JoePa looked the other way while one of his employees sexually harassed children. Why should I feel sorry for him about this?
Why would anyone feel bad for JoePa? He presided over the program while some of this was going on? He got off without any charges. He and his family forever is taken care of.
Feel bad for the kids involved in this no JoePa. Those kids already came from a very difficult family situation and now they have to live with this abuse forever. Makes me sick. I do not feel bad for Joe Pa.
Joe Paterno should be out immediately. If the powers-that-be at Penn State have any stones, they'll fire anyone and everyone who knew something about this situation and did nothing.
Read the article - it's decent. But you really should not comment with your opinion unless you read the grad jury report (found also through the OP link). It is so damning. Far beyond what I expected after reading the article.
Many people knew that Sandusky showered with pre-teen boys, alone at the PSU football facilities, and at least on two occassions complaints were made that inappropirate things happened. One janitor saw Sandusky giving oral sex (again, alone, shower, PSU facilities). Graduate Assistant saw Sandusky having anal sex (again, alone, shower, PSU facilities).
On top of these, of course, we have leadership on various levels who knew of these reports.
And it's worse than even this. All of this victims were introduced to him in their 2nd year in Sandusky's charity. Sadusky took these kids (AND HOW MANY MORE????) to sleep in hotels with him for PSU and PSU-related events. Red flags anyone?
I've been a teacher, managed a home for abused children, and worked as a family counselor for children who have been abused. I realized that I see red flags and trust those instincts probably more more quickly and confidently than most. I also realize how difficult it is to have someone so respected and powerful cast in this type of absolute-worst-possible-image. The result is too often what we see happened here: people turned a blind eye and assumed it wasn't really that bad.
Fuck that. It was worse.
I'm also the father of two boys, but I'm not sure that matters here. I hope this guys rots in his own guilt along those that let this happen. I hope that Joe Pa - whose own Graduate Assistant came to his house on a Saturday morning and told him that the previous night he had seen Sadusky alone in the showers fucking who he thought was a 10 year old boy - leaves the university with none of the glory all assumed he would have. I hope he also goes to jail. I hope PSU donations dry up and recruits chose elsewhere.
I do agree with Sandusky 100% on one thing. When confronted by one of the victims mom's about a decade ago, he said, "I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."
Die already, then.
I do hope that this story leads to people contacting police directly when they see something like this. When they hav doubt and their instincts are telling them somethign is wrong, I hope people ACT and REPORT. Even without a lot - or any - proof, reports can be useful. When police see a pattern, they will respond differently. You don't need to know for certain, just report your experience, nothing more or less.
This story will beocme even bigger news than now as this grand jury report becomes more known. This story will save some kids from getting abused, I'm sure.
I made my previous comment prior to actually reading the Grand Jury report - truthfully I was too scared to actually read it.
After reading it, it hurts me to say JoePa is should be held partly responsible.
Why is that just coming out now and not years ago? Why did she not report that to not just the police, but the media?
Just because a grand jury report seems damning that does not mean it actually is. Let's see what happens once a defense team gets a hold of it.
One would have thought that people would have learned not to assume guilt before being actually proven so.
He said that in response to admitting he showered with one of the boys.
The grad assitant and janitor also need to bear more responsibility. I guess I can't for sure say what I'd do if I walked in on the shocking scenario of an old man raping a 10 year old, but I'd like to think I wouldn't walk away, that I'd do everything in my power to get the boy away and alert authorities. The fucking janitor decides his shitty job is more important than reporting the inicident to anyone. Lots of scumbags in this story. And yeah, after reading that report in my mind JoePa has gone from one of the most respected college football coaches in history to an absolute dirtbag. After knowing this former assitant THAT YOU HIRED raped a kid in your lockerroom showers, how do you continue to allow the guy access to your program? How do you not make certain that this guy is being investigated by the police? Sick shit.
PSU boards think that the GA is McQueary...the WR coach. He should have stopped this when he could. He was a man...and you stop this! If he is the GA, I hope he is gone too, as he also toed the company line
Let's add a little perspective. Say you're the grad assistant or the janitor - you didn't just walk into any old gas station bathroom or Y locker room and see a random old geezer you don't even know, caught in the act. It's easy to say you'd run straight to the police if that happened. No, the guy you're seeing is basically one of your top five most respected people that you know. Imagine it's your dad that you caught. Or, I dunno, Bo Schembechler. A friggin' absolute pillar of the community and a guy who's completely untouchable, not to make a pun out of it. It's not so easy. Anyone who says they'd run right out and tell the story is probably lying. It's just not so easy.
JoePa, well, that's another thing. He probably figured he was off the hook by telling the AD, but again, this is a guy you've known to be unimpeachable for like 40 years, and we don't really know what he was told to begin with. You can't tell me that 40 years of knowing anyone will automatically outweigh a story you heard secondhand, regardless of the content of the story. Everyone wants to sound unequivocally OUTRAGED but in real life there's no such thing as black and white. Well, there is, but it's much easier to see it that way from a distance.
You're never in a position of power when a situation like this arises.
And btw, there had been a university investigation of the guy in 98, which almost certainly was in part behind sandusky's retirement in 99, so when Joe PA hears a "2nd hand story" in 2002 about a guy he's known 40 years, it's not completely out of the blue.
I hope you can say that when faced with a situation that requires a moral judgment of any kind, you've never wavered, not even once, and always, always done the right thing without hesitating.
This one isn't very ambiguous, sorry. He was told (if the GJ report is accurate) that his former assitant was having anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the lockerroom shower. He needed to follow up to make sure something was being done about it, and needed to make sure that the police were informed and were investigating. This isn't a morally ambiguous situation.
I am refering to JoePa, not the GA, not the janitor. Those two had other issues to contend with. JoePa was the most powerful person in the AD, and likely at the University. He had no reasonable fear of retribution from anyone and was in a position to make sure the right things were done. He didn't do it.
While he likely met his legal obligations, he failed to do what was right and, as a result, little boys continued to be raped.