Damn don't u think they've suffered enough
i refuse to even consider this a possibility
Damn don't u think they've suffered enough
I used to hate them somehow I feel bad for them
to now feel bad for them. I, however, don't. For the sake of "football uber alles", they hid a pedophile. Well, not really hid him. Gave him an office and let him continue "helping" kids without telling anyone. Gross. I give the new people props for now going forward, but don't feel bad for anyone there.
I think there is some room to sympathize with some members of the PSU community. Yes, there were a few high level people who did some unforgivable acts, but 99.9% of the PSU community is no different than you or me. They went to a respected university, studied hard, got a degree, cheered for the team on Saturdays, donated money so that others after them could have the same experience, and promoted the positive values of a higher education institution. Now all thier hard work has been destroyed because the people trusted to act in good faith on behalf of the school ended up being terible people.
Although most of that community played no role in the transgressions, do you remember the attitude of that community after this all came out? It was disgusting. Everyone defended Paterno and (nearly) everyone else involved. No one wanted to admit to wrongdoing.
So, fuck 'em. They deserve whatever they get.
Their complete almost en masse denial that anyone (outside of Sandusky) did ANYTHING wrong coupled with their refusal to accept saintly JoePa's removal from deity status ripped any shrad of compassion I had for the fan base away. You want sympathy for how that big mean ol media is treating your school? Try ackowledging there was a HUGE problem that got buried by powerful men with an agenda at your school and then reach out to the victims to see if they need any help.
Until then.....FUCK PSU.
What? How the F*** can you feel bad for a culture that covered up child molestation to protect the program?
Freaking disgusting!!!!! They should have gotten a 3 year death penalty, this isnt paying players or recruiting violations, this is PSU providing a forum for child sex slavery.
Bleep every one of them
This article seems to hint that the AD and several Board of Trustee members are painted in a bad light. I had been trying to abstain from speculating, but here you go: I think the Head Coach, AD, or Board of Trustees pushed to change team doctors in order to get players who may have not been medically cleared in the past back on the field sooner or to get questionable medical procedures greenlighted for players.
Here is the article talking about the AD and Board of Trustees:
As much as I want to rag on Penn State for this, it's not an uncommon practice in college football for players to be cleared when they shouldn't be. I'll leave it at, I know some people who work for a major university that has done this in the past.
Feb 2012 - Bill O'Brien brings in a long time NFL trainer to be the new head trainer. Jan 2013 - PSU hires an outside law firm to investigate complaints about the new trainer. Feb 2013 - O'Brien recommends the school replace the team doctor. Now - After reassigning the doctor as O'Brien requested, PSU is trying to make the move sound like a promotion.
I think thr point was that the administration said they were going to reign in the ADs power, yet noe Penn State football is still making it's own, questionable, decisions. I tell you what, I wouldn't want some shmuck with no medical degree giving me pills or lesions on my neck.
Without seeing the story, it's hard to know anything. But since this is the Internet, everyone should chime in emphatically about something we don't know anything about. Here's my entry: the PSU athletic dept doctors have been euthanizing football players in order to harvest their organs for profit.
The doctors are using the players to test new forms of synthetic marijuana, to sell to the Auburn football team.
Soylent Green is...people!
Damn, they are really kicking them when they are down. They tried to kill Penn State once, and they stood strong. I think all the negativity thrown Penn State's way is going to backfire on the media/NCAA when other schools start standing up for them. At least, that's what I hope happens.
but I have a gut feeling SI wasn't digging for this story. I don't think something like this gets out unless you have sources that leak the story. And based on the current infighting and lack of leadership from their Board of Trustees and president, it is not hard to believe.
PSU has brought this mess upon themselves. When the school's alumni elects Paterno apologists and lunatic fringe like Anthony Lubrano to the Board of Trustees, you reap what you sow
You say "they" but everyone involved with that is no longer at the school. The people not involved are getting the second (maybe first) worst penalty in NCAA history for something that they were never involved with. This, to me, feels like a witch hunt like the freep was doing for us.
Fuck that entire POS institution and any of their fans burying their heads in the sand. That football program shouldn't exist any longer and I hope they're driven into obscurity if not destroyed.
No offense, but I don't want Michigan in this mess.
What good does it for Michigan to stand up for them? It's none of "our" business.
...besides, we had that stupid practice gate deal go down...120 of 120 schools in the country did the same thing and no one said shit on our behalf. And again, I don't blame them, it had nothing to do with them.
We, as fans, can support PSU or anything else we want to support. But I wholeheartedly disagree with a University standing up for PSU in this matter or the previous matter. If for no other reason, we don't need the media spotlight on us for something that has nothing to do with us. If we support PSU the first time around we're being insensitive to the victims, if we support them now (according to the speculation) we're being insensitive to the student-athletes.
Don't pick fights with the media when it's not about you or something you can get a vast majority of support on. You can say ESPN sucks, they're the reason for the BCS. The majority of the country, including the President of the United States want to see a playoff. You can't say ESPN sucks, they're picking on Penn St...much of the country still has no sympathy for PSU after what happened. Is "support" and "majority opinion" the reason to stand for something you believe in? Individually? No. As a University? Sometimes.
And for the 3rd time, it has nothing to do with Michigan. It would be random. Like Michigan coming out saying they support Jason Collins...and that's something the majority of the country is behind. But why would Michigan need to comment on it?
It's early, so I don't feel like tracking down links, but I actually remember a lot of people (if not schools, officially) sticking up for Michigan during the Rodriguez investigation, including people like Urban Meyer, Jim Tressel, and Kirk Herbstreit.
That said, I don't expect, nor would want, any schools to stick up for PSU (including Michigan). Opinion around these parts seems to be swinging back in the other direction on PSU. It wasn't that long ago that kicking them out of the conference was discussed around here as a serious option.
Those are PEOPLE, not INSTITUTIONS. Did any other schools do anything resembling interceding on Michigan's behalf? Absolutely not, and that's what Mr. Yost is getting at. Schools aren't going to "stand up" for Penn State here, either.
This isn't "Practicegate" level ticky-tack crap. This is shady shit.
But you didn't say "Florida," "Ohio" and "ESPN"...you just mentioned 3 names. 3 big names, but people nonetheless. Which no offense, is exactly what I meant.
...stood up for innocent children... Oh wait.
Isn't this the point of placing teams on probation? To keep schools that have a proven track record of not playing by the rules under a microscope?
Personal Foul, Targeting a Defenseless Receiver !
It can't be worse than when they used to leave their dead out on the field.
My favorite picture ever !
to the end of time
Please make this happen...Alan Branch 2.0
"we've been on a run of d-lineman that are serviceable but not great; talented underachievers and less talented overachievers"
Yes, we have -- it extends back as far as I can remember in the modern era ... not just the past few years.
Starting from the '80s, make a list of NFL-caliber D-linemen from Michigan. Relative to other areas (say, O-line and QB) it's a pretty short list.
Branch, Woodley, and Graham were exceptions to the rule.
I'm hopeful that the Hoke area will be remembered for its standouts at that position.
Also James hall. Guys who were good on a conference level but not in nfl would be Terrence Taylor, Ron Rene's, grant bowman, off the top of my head. Might dig around for a few more, but I would agree that Michigan has had a lot more success in the nfl other places than DL.
...was a MONSTER.
Steele and Irons. You're not running on a defense with those last names.
#94 Josh Williams had a good college career and NFL career.
Was this from a previous thread? I want to make this the centerpiece of DD. Also that cropping job of Branch is supurb -- could use the png file if you have it.
Seems like this could be much ado about nothing. Bill O'Brien seems to be on the up and up, so until there's legitimate reason to grab the torches and pitchforks again, I'm going to focus on UM and the upcoming season.
came out with it's highest-paid public university administrators this week. At the top of the list: PSU's Graham Spanier. $2,906,721 per year. Not making this up, folks.
The number is inflated due to severance pay. That's not his base comp.
So some are saying this is all comeing from inside the program. People are upset that they replaced a sideline doctor with just trainers, they complained to the AD and nothing came of it.Then they went to the media.
Also im literally in tears from laughing so hard at the comment about leaving their dead on the field lol
Per speculation, the core of the article seems to be that Dr. Sebastianelli was at every practice prior to November 2011, he was replaced and now a sideline doctor isn't at every practice. That's an issue if PSU has become an outlier in this regard. Does most every of the 120 other FBS schools have a doctor at every practice? I don't know, I hope SI would do due diligence and answer that question if this is the core issue of this article.
Now, for a more cynical take --- was Dr. Sebastianelli at every practice prior to November 2011 for the players, or for Joe Paterno, an 85-year-old man who wasn't able to coach from the sideline anymore and was in obvious failing health? I tend to believe it was the latter.
(Spanier's 2.9m) Is heavily skewed by termination payouts. He made 1/4 of that as salary is what i've read.
I'll wait until the report comes out to pass judgement, but I simply don't understand the conduct of the PSU board of trustees who continue to govern the school wearing blinders and run a a major public university without the transparency of FOIA requirements, although that may soon change.
If they keep getting beat down, eventually State College will just secede, built some walls, and become a hermit kingdom where Joe Paterno is deemed "Great Leader and President for all of Eternity"
wow I don't think you can get any more ridiculous by saying that you won't hire any "pedo U grads." It's an AAU accredited university and you're basing your opinion on football. You seemingly have become what you hate, an individual who's putting football over academics. Who gives a shit about what someone's feelings about an old man who made one major mistake is. That would be like if any allegations came out about Bo, if you still respected the man for his accomplishments does that make you a horrible person? Yes he made a horrible decision, but that would be one in a lifetime. Then by your standards every Michigan fan in the world would be an idiot and wouldn't deserve to be hired.
I think that would be a good start to a confession bear.
Or have children
So you are going to punish people who had absolutely nothing to do with this scandal just because they wanted to go to a top university? What the hell is wrong with you?
If anything else comes up that is really bad, is it not out of the question to vote them out of the B1G?
Is this the kind of school that the B1G wants to associate with? That puts football before the safety of children and now medical care of football players?
I still think the B1G made a huge ass mistake not taking louisville before the ACC grabbed them. Too late now. Now all they're left to do is pick the dead carcass of the AAC.
Louisville's academics are shit, you would be contradicting yourself if you wanted Louisville added. Adding them would completely be based off of football. The Big Ten is only interested in adding AAU schools because academics is a big priority.
Louisville? Vomit. Awful choice. Vanderbilt's a better candidate than Rutgers or Maryland ever was. Or if we're going to pick up more punching bags for football, why not Virginia?
B1G got maryland and rutgers, who nobody cares about. Delany thinks it is the NY market cares about rutgers when they really don't care at all.
And the ACC got louisville. Who just destroyed an SEC team in a bowl game and won the national title in basketball and has a top-10 baseball team.
What exactly is maryland and rutgers good at again?
When did I defend the Maryland and Rutgers decisions? Those were horrible decisions as well.
Louisville was good at football last year, but are not historically great and once Charlie Strong gets hired away somewhere, they'll probably be mediocre. In addition, Louisville won't expand the market, either...as there's just not much market where Louisville fans reside.
Good job avoiding the academic issues entirely, which is likely the very first filter applied to candidate expansion schools.
Maybe it's just me but I think this is all about the money. If the chance was there, Alabama or Vanderbilt, who do you they'd take?
I'm thinking bama or I want out of this sinking ship.
other than I don't think you understand how the Big Ten works.
Yeah, obviously academics where the big reason we added Nebraska first. The Harvard of the Corn, as thy say.
They were an AAU member and lost membership for a stupid reason. Look up...I said academics were a FILTER, not the be-all, end-all criteria. I do enjoy the straw man arguments tossed my direction thus far, though.
Louisville isn't even close to being an AAU member.
Are you kidding? You'd take a damn commuter school into our ranks for the sake of a football and basketball team? Louisville academics are garbage, and they shouldn't be allowed in the Big Ten.
More trouble for Penn State.
Yet they will inexplicably still be able to recruit 4-stars who will never be able to play in a bowl game.
You have to give them credit, they're selling tickets for a sunk ship and people are still lining up for the cruise.
I would like to remove them from the B1G.
I haven't seen that the SI story is out yet, but the Times-Tribune (Scranton's paper, I think) provides some information about what might possibly be in there (LINK). There is some discussion apparently of Tim Bream's actions:
"But the allegations against head athletic trainer Tim Bream were perhaps the most damning in the article. Several unnamed sources told SI that Bream administered several drugs to players -- the anti-inflammatory Voltaren -- without physician approval. Bream does not have a medical degree, according to the report. In addition, former walk-on receiver Garrett Lerner told SI that he suffered to burns on his right leg when Bream misused an electrical stimulation machine while treating him."
It also mentions that there have been investigations into the allegations against Bream for some time, but the conclusion of those interviews and inquiries reportedly did not find evidence or reports of overstepping the bounds of care.
But really the rest just seems like employer-employee issues and office politics. Maybe not something you want to go public but not really anything bad. No one would care if it wasn't at Penn State that GASP guys who didn't like each other parted ways when one of them became the other's boss.
The overstepping medical care bounds is maybe the (smaller) headline, but it's buried among all the other silly stuff.
The Sandusky issue was obviously a PSU-specific one, but based on the limited info available this feels like an issue with a particular doctor or medical staff which, I'm guessing, happens at other schools. I mean, sometimes people change positions and that can lead to changes in procedures or protocols that may appear, at least to outsiders, as a drop or degradation in quality. I have a hard time believing, though, that PSU's suddenly treating its athletes worse in terms of medical care. This might be a bunch of secondary and anonymous sources, but I'll withhold judgment until the report comes out.
This seems pretty much like a non-story. The only part that makes it potentially story-worthy is that they are doing this to save money, which is how every AD operates.
I was expecting him to have been fired because he wouldn't agree to put athletes back in games when they had concussions or something. MSM gets us again with sensational headlines.
Did PSU give a reason for replacing the doctor? It sounded like there was a conflict between the trainer and the doctor that O'Brien and Joyner decided by replacing the doctor.
Before reading the summary, I thought that the doctor was fired for refusing to allow players with concussions play or something along those lines. The headline talks about athletes having too much power and all of the power exertion seems to have come from the AD and HC.
It asks whether "athletics" have too much power at PSU, not "athletes".
In other news, the sun came up in the East.
There is absolutely no reason for a surgeon to be at practice--they don't practice emergency medicine, and the family practice guy is just as capable. For safety, I imagine an EMT is actually better qualified to stabilize a spinal injury or handle a concussion.
People's insurance companies do this kind of thing to them all the time, and SI doesn't get its knickers in a knot about that.
We shouldn't either.
I feel bad for the Penn State students and alums who all realize there's a problem with the leadership and feel sick to their stomachs about it. I know a lot of morons were out defending everyone but Sandusky, but there's probably a heck of a lot more people who are like you and me and are humiliated by how poorly their school has been run. I know I'd feel miserable if Michigan had this much crap going on
Via PSU: "Contrary to the reporter's assertions, Dr. Sebastianelli remains the doctor in charge of the University's entire medical program for intercollegiate athletics, including football. Further, there has been no change in the support provided by State College-based Penn State orthopedic surgeons, including Dr. Sebastianelli."
Just sayin it's all about do we feel bad for them. I'm torn how to approach the story. It would never make the newstand nationally if it wasn't about PSU. However, I know high schools who have Orthapedic surgeons on the sideline at all events, so I think PSU seems to be slighting something. It isn't like the school is broke, so why would they not be able to hire a new OS if the old one and AD were fighting.
Heck I'm sure you could get one OS a week to volunteer at the games at the minimum. Seems like the idea about sports ruling the budget is winning, but I think the personal battle amongst egos is the largest issue here.
But I'm biased
Hail to the Victors (and Pitt)
ESPN could learn a thing or two from this investigative reporting stufff